Legends of Metru Nui

[Raph]

Now, i don't know exactly, wether this was asked before or not (if so, i'm sorry) but i rewatched Bionicle 2 LOMN recently, and i have a question. In the movie there is a scene, when Makuta (or Dume) enters some dark chamber and talks with someone with glowing red eyes. Now my obvious question is, who did Makuta talk to, if he himself was the Imposter Dume? Was it someone from Brotherhood of Makuta, or it was Dume, who talked with Makuta? And if there is any explanation of it from Greg, if anyone of you knows about it, please answer. Thank you.

[Nato G]

That sequence always bothered me as well when rewatching. It almost feels like some kind of leftover scene from an earlier version of a script where Dume was an actual traitor working with Makuta, rather than having been already replaced by him. 

[Raph]

1 hour ago, Nato G said:

That sequence always bothered me as well when rewatching. It almost feels like some kind of leftover scene from an earlier version of a script where Dume was an actual traitor working with Makuta, rather than having been already replaced by him. 

I tought so too. Especialy when i watched it on VHS back in 2005. But still, maybe there is some official explanation?

[Starset]

My personnal take on it is that Dume was, for a time at least, is true self, but was forced to work with the Makuta in exchange for the safety of the citizen (or his own). However, at some point, he turned on Makuta, not able to bare with it, and was replaced from that point forward.

[Raph]

1 hour ago, Starset said:

My personnal take on it is that Dume was, for a time at least, is true self, but was forced to work with the Makuta in exchange for the safety of the citizen (or his own). However, at some point, he turned on Makuta, not able to bare with it, and was replaced from that point forward.

then why does he says in same scene, after Makuta? says that mask of time isnt completed yet, Dume replies "no, but when the great shadow arrives, vahki will deal with all of the matoran"?

Edited August 10, 2022 by Raph

[That Matoran with a Vahi]

This is definitely a question that I've seen asked (and answered) before, but it was a long time ago and I don't remember the source for it... maybe one of the old Greg Discussion topics? I do remember that the gist of the given answer, though, was that Dume's chamber contained a mirror; so when Makuta-disguised-as-Dume entered, it reflected back at him his 'true' form, and he had a conversation with himself to practice keeping in-character as Dume.

[Toatapio Nuva]

17 hours ago, That Matoran with a Vahi said:

This is definitely a question that I've seen asked (and answered) before, but it was a long time ago and I don't remember the source for it... maybe one of the old Greg Discussion topics? I do remember that the gist of the given answer, though, was that Dume's chamber contained a mirror; so when Makuta-disguised-as-Dume entered, it reflected back at him his 'true' form, and he had a conversation with himself to practice keeping in-character as Dume.

This is the answer, more or less. Makuta was simply looking in a mirror. It wasn't the first time he had monologued to himself either, and wouldn't be the last, so in that sense it is consistent with his character as well.

[Raph]

4 hours ago, Toatapio Nuva said:

This is the answer, more or less. Makuta was simply looking in a mirror. It wasn't the first time he had monologued to himself either, and wouldn't be the last, so in that sense it is consistent with his character as well.

it looked like Dume was speaking to Makuta tough. Anyways, i tought Dume was bad guy, when i watched movie for the first time.

[Starset]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:12 PM, Raph said:

then why does he says in same scene, after Makuta? says that mask of time isnt completed yet, Dume replies "no, but when the great shadow arrives, vahki will deal with all of the matoran"?

Well, maybe Dume was not under the impression that the vahki ''dealing'' with the matoran necessarely meant hurting them. It is also notable to say that at that moment in time, Shadow was not considered evil yet. It was going hand in hand with the Makuta species, which at that point were still allies(and very important figures in the universe).

If Makuta really deceived Dume in thinking the new Toa were truly impostors, then his sentence could simply be interpreted as :

''No, the mask isn't complete, but still, when you arrive in Metru-Nui (the great shadow), the Vahki will keep the matoran in line''. A little like how the cops keep the citizen in line during the visit of a notable figure, for diplomacy.

Eventually Dume may have understood Makuta's true intentions (or not) and was replaced then.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Starset

[Zidonaro]

Soliloquy

[Raph]

7 hours ago, Starset said:

Well, maybe Dume was not under the impression that the vahki ''dealing'' with the matoran necessarely meant hurting them. It is also notable to say that at that moment in time, Shadow was not considered evil yet. It was going hand in hand with the Makuta species, which at that point were still allies(and very important figures in the universe).

If Makuta really deceived Dume in thinking the new Toa were truly impostors, then his sentence could simply be interpreted as :

''No, the mask isn't complete, but still, when you arrive in Metru-Nui (the great shadow), the Vahki will keep the matoran in line''. A little like how the cops keep the citizen in line during the visit of a notable figure, for diplomacy.

Eventually Dume may have understood Makuta's true intentions (or not) and was replaced then.

that may have some logic in it, considering what Turaga Lhikan said to Makuta: "Makuta! You were sworn to protect matoran" indicating that Makuta was a protector at the start. Maybe Makuta convinced Dume, that he needs Mask of time for some research purposes. Anyway, thanks. But i like to hear more theories.

[Lorentz]

He was talking to himself in a mirror, basically.

[Master Inika]

Officially, he is Makuta in disguise talking to himself, and the pool is a mirror reflecting his true self back at him. The novelization is more clear that it is a mirror.

Unofficially, it is almost certainly a leftover from an earlier version of the story involving Dume actually betraying the Matoran. Dume is almost always portrayed negatively in the story up to that point, so him having been in stasis the whole time feels to me like a late addition.