Skrall Population

[The Iron Toa]

Was it explained in the story why the Skrall outnumber the rest of the warrior race of Bara Magna (except maybe the Vorox) so much? I understand why the Vorox would be numerous, as it's their native environment and they can even survive in the wastelands. But the Skrall were also decimated by the Baterra. Do they reproduce faster (and if I recall they lost contact with the females when they banished them) or were they just lucky enough to not be depopulated in the Shattering as much as the others? Or did most of the Agori and warrior race die off in the desert, and the Black Spike Mountains supported life better?

[T.B.O.C]

Was it explained in the story why the Skrall outnumber the rest of the warrior race of Bara Magna (except maybe the Vorox) so much? I understand why the Vorox would be numerous, as it's their native environment and they can even survive in the wastelands. But the Skrall were also decimated by the Baterra. Do they reproduce faster (and if I recall they lost contact with the females when they banished them) or were they just lucky enough to not be depopulated in the Shattering as much as the others? Or did most of the Agori and warrior race die off in the desert, and the Black Spike Mountains supported life better?

I'm not exactly sure if they outnumbered the Agori and Glatorian, but they lived in slightly better conditions considering they stole many things from the Glatorain and Agori. They also profited from better conditions by beating the heck out of them in arena battles. The Skrall may have also been a physically stronger species, and maybe were slightly better off naturally than the Agori and warrior type species, but I'm not sure.

[Makuta Matata]

Well, all the Agori together count as one species. The Skrall are a whole species in themselves. Not to mention that the Skrall probably had a large colony, while many of the Agori and Glatorian were killed off in the war.

[T.B.O.C]

Well, all the Agori together count as one species. The Skrall are a whole species in themselves. Not to mention that the Skrall probably had a large colony, while many of the Agori and Glatorian were killed off in the war.

Skrall also had a minor role in the war, so they would have lost members as well, but yes, more Agori and Glatorian met their end in the Core War than Skrall.Also, another thing is that not all of the Skrall are on Bara Magna, many SKrall were left behind on Bota Magna, and I don't think they were considered evil, as that was mostly the Bara Magnan ones.

[LordofBionicles]

I think because the rest of the population of Vulcanus and the other tribes maybe got stuck on Bota Magna after the Shattering, also they were the strongest race so they didn´t die from Vorox or any wild animal like many other Glatorian

[The Iron Toa]

Yeah, too bad it seems we'll never know how much of the planet's population ended up on Bota Magna.

[Goldenguy]

Acually the Skrall are the most numeorus TRIBE, together all the other agori outnumber them. I think...

[The Iron Toa]

But the unnamed species that's commonly hired as Glatorian and just called Glatorian (I think that's the case, or is Glatorian really the species name?) have very low numbers compared to the Skrall. Their low numbers make sense since they suffered a planetary cataclysm right after a huge war, but the Skrall went through the same thing as far as I know.

[fishers64]

Keep in mind the large armies of TLR were Skrall and Bone Hunters. Also, the Skrall on their own mostly only took one city over with the element of surprise working for them. They might not be as numerous as they seem.

[The Iron Toa]

Yeah, we got a handful of named Glatorian/Glatorian-species folk: Ackar, Certavus, Gelu, Gresh, Kiina, Malum, Perditus, Strakk, Surel, Tarix, Telluris, and Vastus... comes to 12. And we hear about a few unnamed ones, which gives the impression of there being about twenty Glatorian-types alive on Bara Magna, compared to the hundreds of Skrall.

[Athmos]

That we known of. There could be other ones on Bara Magna. Remember, Bara Magna is a big place. Not everyone lived in the same patch of desert.

[The Iron Toa]

Good point. It's the biggest chunk of a huge planet. The story made it seem like the only Glatorian and Agori lived in one part of it (still a very large part considering the size of the Prototype Robot scattered across it) but there's so much more land. At least, we know that there were Agori living in or near the mountains where the Skrall used to live, according to Bionicle Legends 8.

[Athmos]

Besides, Greg only included Glatorian that were needed for the story. The population of the Skrall was probably not that small. Just because they banished the females, doesn't mean they made visits.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Just because they banished the females, doesn't mean they made visits.

And were promptly killed by the females. Remember in Empire Of The Skrall they considered letting two Skrall leave their camp alive unthinkable.

[fishers64]

Good point. It's the biggest chunk of a huge planet. The story made it seem like the only Glatorian and Agori lived in one part of it (still a very large part considering the size of the Prototype Robot scattered across it) but there's so much more land. At least, we know that there were Agori living in or near the mountains where the Skrall used to live, according to Bionicle Legends 8.

Why would there be Agori living where the Skrall used to live? I would think they would all be dead, considering Sorel and the wolves, baterra, element lords, and other stuff up there? Further, if there had been Agori up there, wouldn't have Tarduk have ran into a few in Riddle of the Great Beings as he was headed north? All the other beings up there considered Agori a threat except for Sorel, which wouldn't have been true if there was a bunch of Agori up there and they saw them as a matter of routine. And why are you referencing Bionicle Legends 8? That has nothing to do with Bara Magna at all - that's the story of the Toa Mahri vs. Barraki and Matoro's sacrifice...

[Athmos]

Just because they banished the females, doesn't mean they made visits.

And were promptly killed by the females. Remember in Empire Of The Skrall they considered letting two Skrall leave their camp alive unthinkable.

Oh, kraz, you're right. But then again, we don't know if they are the only females.

[The Iron Toa]

Sorry, I was referring to the story Fall and Rise of the Skrall in the Papercutz book Bionicle 8: Legends of Bara Magna. In the beginning of that story, in the Black Spike Mountains, one of the Skrall in Branar's patrol suggests raiding Agori farms.

[fishers64]

Sorry, I was referring to the story Fall and Rise of the Skrall in the Papercutz book Bionicle 8: Legends of Bara Magna. In the beginning of that story, in the Black Spike Mountains, one of the Skrall in Branar's patrol suggests raiding Agori farms.

Were those Agori farms in the north?I would doubt it, seeing as according to the Riddle of the Great Beings there is mountains, a forest with warriors trapped in it, and any number of hostile individuals looking for trouble. Not the best place for an agribusiness.

[The Iron Toa]

Well, Branar or one of the other Skrall did mention the Agori there were starving. Not exactly an agribusiness, just trying to stay alive.

[Makuta Matata]

Acually the Skrall are the most numeorus TRIBE, together all the other agori outnumber them. I think...

Yeah, that's what I was saying. The Skrall aren't the same species as Agori.

[Taipu1]

The Skrall didn't adopt the arena system straight away, the other tribes probably lost a number of warriors fighting among themselves, while the Skrall simply grew in numbers.

[Maganar]

Yeah, we got a handful of named Glatorian/Glatorian-species folk:Ackar, Certavus, Gelu, Gresh, Kiina, Malum, Perditus, Strakk, Surel, Tarix, Telluris, and Vastus... comes to 12. And we hear about a few unnamed ones, which gives the impression of there being about twenty Glatorian-types alive on Bara Magna, compared to the hundreds of Skrall.

That we known of.There could be other ones on Bara Magna.

I'm pretty sure we can take it for granted that there must be at least 20 or so Glatorian-types on Bara Magna due to a couple pieces of information: 1) The Fire Tribe was in a position of lacking because Malum was banished. Sure Ackar was supposed to be old and all, but if each tribe only about two in the first place that's hardly lacking. 2) Tribes seem to have a minimum of a prime Glatorian and a Second. This implies that there are others that aren't in this position. Wasn't something said about these positions including extra pay? This pay would be extra compared to what if every Glatorian was some villages prime? 3) Trainees, right? I'm sure trainees were mentioned in canon, and not just specific to the Seconds. Who are the Primes and Seconds training if they're it? 4) The Core War must have had lots and lots of Glatorian. GregF said their numbers had been devastated by the Core War, not that it had set them on a rapid path towards extinction. He made a clear point of it when the numbers of Toa were in such drastic decline between such time periods as the Dark Hunter/Toa War and the current era. He even gave us specific numbers to drive the concept home, like "less than 50" If there were so few Glatorian, I feel a similar statement would have been made. 5) Bara Magna is HUGE.I talk too much. :lol:In reference to the initial question: the Skrall were prospering in their empire to the north, beyond the Black Spike Mountains.

Remember, Bara Magna is a big place. Not everyone lived in the same patch of desert.

A big place. A very, very big place. I can't stress how much I agree with this. The MU is like... little compared to Bara Magna. Remember, the entirety of the MU was physically standing up on the surface of Bara Magna. The desert was hostile, harsh, unforgiving. A small minority of the population eked out a living in that area. Somewhere or other exists beyond the Sea of Liquid Sand. We don't now where. Given the scale of BM, there's probably another huge locale that lies beyond that. The same to the north. The Skrall didn't seem to think they were on the edge of reality, and they had an entire empire so far north no one in the main desert had heard of it. Tuma seemed to think he would need to conquer the entire desert to have a similar empire. This indicates the Skrall had possessed a region the same size as the entire canonically-described part of BM that lied fully to the north!Final statement: Bara Magna is titanic in proportions. Were looking at a full-scale planet here. The Skralls' number aren't overwhelming relative to BM as a whole; they were just overwhelming to the desperate beings of the desert. I'd say confidently that The Iron Toa actually is probably correct if we are just talking about the desert - there probably aren't a whole lot more than 20 or so in that area. But on BM as a whole, there could easily be hundreds. They're just not in contact to due to distance, struggles with surviving (which would prevent long-distance exploration), and physical barriers (Sea of Liquid Sand, Black Spike Mnts., etc.)I definitely talk too much...

[The Iron Toa]

So basically, the part of Bara Magna that Mata Nui landed in was only one little part of a planet that might have thousands more Agori and Glatorian in parts we've never heard of. That makes sense, I'm not sure how I got the idea that that region and the Black Spike Mountains were the only inhabited areas.

[alpha123]

Skrall are simply physically stronger and hardier, so they'd survive better in the rough conditions. Also, as I recall, they didn't participate in the Core War much/at all, while the other tribes probably all had large losses.

[Maganar]

Skrall are simply physically stronger and hardier, so they'd survive better in the rough conditions. Also, as I recall, they didn't participate in the Core War much/at all, while the other tribes probably all had large losses.

And with this also being true, the desert wouldn't have been too much of a task to conquer. The desert tribes were in a seriously bad spot when the Skrall decided to move in. However, it is not true they did not participate at all. To quote BS01:

The Skrall were eventually drawn into the Core War, and were led by members of their leader class. After the Shattering occurred, the Rock Tribe was cut off from their homeland, and forced to take up residence near the Black Spike Mountains.

Note the word 'eventually.' alpha's 'not much' of 'not much/at all' was correct.One final point actually occured to me a few minutes after my previous post: an empire has subjects. The soldiers exist in unusually high numbers in a military empire like the Skrall, but it just isn't possible for that to be a majority. I don't think it was just Rock tribe Agori, but probably other species. Most of the Rock tribe seemed to be proud of being with the Skrall, but canon explains that their empire was conquered. So that's actually a bit of a give-off I didn't even think of that there probably are some other species or additional Glatorian/Agori societies to the north.

I'm not sure how I got the idea that that region and the Black Spike Mountains were the only inhabited areas.

It's not an uncommon thought. GregF left behind a massive void of potential info when it came to anything related to Bara Magna. We don't know what lied beyond the canon portions of Bara Magna, but we know it was big enough that places did have to lie beyond. We knew BM was generally the harshest planet/planetoid/whatever-celestial-body-he-was-going-for and at least largely desert. But we also know that the Skrall's northern empire was snowy and cold (if you have the Papercutz volume 8 graphic novel it's obvious; the cover shows a Skrall fighting blasting icy winds and the comic about the Skrall Empire, called "Fall and Rise of the Skrall," is all in the snow.) and some parts of RotGB seemed to describe lush and verdant areas. The Element Lord of Jungle describes deep jungles denser than anything even a native of Tesara could imagine. It's definitely not all desert. Speaking of the massive lack of info about BM, we also have about 100,000 years so little is known of. BM is a huge jackpot of unencroached story possibilities for fanfic writers that are interested. Anyway, I've strayed a bit off of topic, but at least I was able to bring up a couple other thoughts that came to mind after I'd finished that earlier, massive post.

[The Iron Toa]

Yeah, an empire means subject territories under control of the central culture. For the Skrall to have had an empire, they would need to have non-Skrall be part of it, and I'd say non-Rock Tribe members, too.

[Toa of Italy]

I think most that has been said here is correct.First of all, I asked something like this to GregF a while ago. Here's how he answered:

11)Why are there more Skrall than any other tribe's (except maybe the sand tribe) warriors (to the point where to match the Skrall numbers, all the Glatorian had to come together to form an army)? If the Fire, Jungle, Water and Ice armies were almost annhiliated (since there were max. 2 veteran Glatorian per tribe, apart from the Rock and Sand Tribes), why did so many Skrall survive? I mean, I know they were the best warriors, but it still seems to me a too great difference.11) Not a question of survival. It's a question of how many were on Bara Magna when the Shattering happened. There could be a whole mess of jungle Glatorian on Bota Magna, for all we know.

Being from GregF, this answer is automatically canon, but it's also plausible. The Ice Tribe and the Jungle Tribe lived respectively in the Northern Frost and the Great Jungle, both of which became part of Bota Magna. The Water Tribe lived in Aqua Magna, possibly on islands (though there's no confirmation I'm aware of). If so, they were perhaps the ones whose death toll was higher, as the floodings which followed the Shattering would have killed all of them.The Fire Tribe did live on the landmass which would become part of Bara Magna. However, they lived in a geologically-unstable region, which as a result of the Shattering might have been one of the most damaged areas. In addition, most of their warriors were probably concentrated around the EP spring they had just conquered, which I guess would have been totally destroyed by the Shattering.This leaves us with the Sand Tribe, whose numbers are unknown, and the Rock Tribe. Although the Skrall Homeland was on Bota Magna, the Rock Tribe did have territories on Bara Magna (the Black Spike Mountains and the White Quartz Mountains), which makes it plausible that the Skrall army would have been there, possibly to protect them.Note that this argument might not be entirely true for the Agori. In fact, though the Rock Tribe is still the most populous, I believe the disproportions between the tribes' populations are far lower than those between Skrall and Glatorian.As others have already said, Bara Magna is very big, so it's plausible that the warriors might have dispersed themselves on the planet. We can also explain why this isn't true for the Skrall. The Rock Tribe seems to have a more hierarchic, authoritarian and militaristic structure than the other tribes. Since the warriors owe their complete allegiance to the leader-class, this would have made it easier for the Rock Tribe to keep together.In addition, while the Rock Tribe had relatively few rivals in the mountains, the other tribes had to compete for resources between themselves (using the Glatorian System, true, but there was still a ferocious competition for the few resources) and with Vorox and Bone Hunters. One might wonder why the tribes settled in such an inhospitable location in the first place, but remember that before the Shattering the Great Barren actually possessed several cities and was probably a prosperous region. The tribes were caught off-guard by the terrible climate change which surely followed the Shattering.Last thing, I wanted to address the issue of the composition of each tribe's Glatorian population. The veterans are the only left to have fought in the Core War (and face it, after 100,000 years there can't be many). The others (though I don't want to delve into the biological reproduction issue too much) were probably born after, while their ancestors died of old age, disease and who knows what else.The Skrall probably underwent this process too, which might make some confusion arise over how young Skrall were able to beat veteran fighters like Ackar and Tarix. My answer is that they didn't. The Skrall sent to fight in the arenas were probably the older, most talented fighters. However, given that the Skrall culture gives less value to the individual's identity, every Skrall seemed the same to the other tribes. This would also explain how the Glatorian managed to win the Battle of Roxtus. Some Skrall were actually at level with the rookies and far weaker than the veteran, evening the odds at least partially.

[The Iron Toa]

That's a good explanation of why the Skrall always win in arena battles, I thought of it too. It's too bad we'll probably never find out more about Spherus Magna... wait, that leaves more room for us to fill in the blanks.

[Maganar]

The Skrall probably underwent this process too, which might make some confusion arise over how young Skrall were able to beat veteran fighters like Ackar and Tarix. My answer is that they didn't. The Skrall sent to fight in the arenas were probably the older, most talented fighters. However, given that the Skrall culture gives less value to the individual's identity, every Skrall seemed the same to the other tribes. This would also explain how the Glatorian managed to win the Battle of Roxtus. Some Skrall were actually at level with the rookies and far weaker than the veteran, evening the odds at least partially.

I hadn't even considered this. That (Battle of Roxtus) was always a slight point of concern for me, and I have had only sporadic moments of concern with canon, but that fits in perfectly with everything we know and is a logical following. I'm logging this into my mental fanon databanks if nothing else... And thanks for the descriptions of where all the tribe majorities had been prior to the Shattering. Where exactly was this first mentioned in canon? Now that I know, I checked BS01 and found you to be correct, I'm just curious becuase I totally missed out on those little scraps of info.

It's too bad we'll probably never find out more about Spherus Magna... wait, that leaves more room for us to fill in the blanks.

My thoughts exactly!