The Face Behind The Mask

[Dralcax]

Well, when the Piraka raided Terry’s lair, they found his crushed armor. They removed the Kraahkan, and it was then revealed that there is nothing behind a Makuta’s mask, their mask serves as their face. So why doesn’t a Makuta’s antidermis leak out when they change masks, like when Icarax swapped his mask of scavenging in favor of the Kraahkan? Or through the eyeholes, for that matter?

[Erebus]

The Makuta must have changed their Kanohi quickly. We never did see Icarax swap his masks.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Erebus

[Toa of Nerds]

His substance is probably sealed off to where changing his mask won't affect anything. From what understand, the reason Makuta's substance leeched out was due to his armour being busted, not due to anything with his head. -don't touch my pocket protector

[Shadow Kurahk]

I remember that a while ago, people were saying that if a Matoran's or Toa's mask was removed, they would die. In the comics the Toa were maskless for some time; they had to find their masks as they had fallen off during the impact of their landing. My point is that the storyline seems pretty inconsistent when it comes to Kanohi. But either way, this question seems a bit unanswerable--who's to say there is no muscular tissue beneath the mask? The face can refer to simply the exterior of the head and not necessarily the lower layers of skin or tissue. -SK

[Erebus]

If a Kanohi is removed from a Makuta's face, then Antidermis will slowly leak out. The reason why Teridax's Antidermis leaked out after being defeated by Takanuva was because his armor had shattered when the door had come down on him.

[Dralcax]

Yes, but the Piraka found no face behind the mask. So what keeps the antidermis from leaking out the eyeholes in the mask?

[Erebus]

His "body" was destroyed so there was no face. Only his armor was remaining, along with the Mask of Shadows.

[Dralcax]

His "body" was destroyed so there was no face. Only his armor was remaining, along with the Mask of Shadows.

Define the difference between a Makuta's body and his armor, unless you are referring to his antidermis, which invalidates your arguement.

[Erebus]

I'm pretty sure I'm wrong about what I said above, but surely he had to have a face to have his mask connected to. His face was part of the armor, so it's not impossible for the face to have been destroyed under the door that collapsed on him. It's either that or the Piraka meant something figuratively when he said there was no face behind the mask. Can you please provide a direct quote from the book on this?

Edited October 15, 2011 by Erebus

[Shadow Kurahk]

I'm not disagreeing about whether the antidermis leaked out of the destroyed mask, but that's still not to say that there could have been some kind of organic tissue beneath the mask keeping the antidermis in place which was also destroyed beneath the door in Mangaia. The Makuta had, after all, evolved from their original biomechanical forms, and their new bodies were made to accommodate more organic material. -SK

[Zarohum]

I remember that a while ago, people were saying that if a Matoran's or Toa's mask was removed, they would die. In the comics the Toa were maskless for some time; they had to find their masks as they had fallen off during the impact of their landing. My point is that the storyline seems pretty inconsistent when it comes to Kanohi. But either way, this question seems a bit unanswerable--who's to say there is no muscular tissue beneath the mask? The face can refer to simply the exterior of the head and not necessarily the lower layers of skin or tissue. -SK

Nobody dies without a Kanohi. Toa become too weak to carry weapons, and Matoran go into a coma after a few days. I never thought about this. Good catch!

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

I remember that a while ago, people were saying that if a Matoran's or Toa's mask was removed, they would die. In the comics the Toa were maskless for some time; they had to find their masks as they had fallen off during the impact of their landing. My point is that the storyline seems pretty inconsistent when it comes to Kanohi. But either way, this question seems a bit unanswerable--who's to say there is no muscular tissue beneath the mask? The face can refer to simply the exterior of the head and not necessarily the lower layers of skin or tissue. -SK

Nobody dies without a Kanohi. Toa become too weak to carry weapons, and Matoran go into a coma after a few days. I never thought about this. Good catch!

I think the death term applies only to turaga since their bodies are significantly weak and they're often quite old Toa: unable to use elements properly, they walk on a limp or brought down to a crawl and most of their strength drops as if starved by hunger.Matoran: Become disoriented then go comatose at later stages.Turaga: Weakened like Toa at first, then death if mask is gone for a very significant amount of days like a week.

[Ektris]

You're taking the fact that Antidermis leaks through holes in the armor far, far too literally. If they're wearing a mask, they're covered up. It's as simple as that. ~|ET|~

[Baron Von Nebula]

It seems to take a while for antidermis to leak out, judging by how Teridax controlling Maxilos and later Alt. Teridax getting his shoulder shredded were able to keep going for a while, with Teridax eventually abandoning the form (note this is a while after the Maxilos was actually damaged) and Alt. Teridax patched the armor. If it takes this long for the antidermis to actually leak, Icarax would be fine changing masks. I have no idea how the eye-thing would work though. I always wondered how a gas cloud piloting armor could have eyes in the first place...

[Zarohum]

But here's the thing. Makuta can control where they go as a cloud of antidermis. I never understood how their antidermis would involuntarily seep out of their armor if it's their actual spirit.

[Dralcax]

Yeah, I always wondered that too. It's like opening the door to a car without seat belts. You could fall out, but it's unlikely.

[Makuta Matata]

Maybe Icarax just put the Mask of Shadow on over his old one? Like Vakama put the Mask of Time on?

[Dralcax]

But that doesn't explain the eyeholes problem.

[Erebus]

I don't understand what you mean about the eyes holes. You'll have to elaborate on that.

[HordikaMode]

I'm guessing They have control over whether or not they let out their Antidermis through their open faces. Like when Takanuva ripped off Teridax's Kanohi, maybe the glowing was Antidermis in its energy form, and Teridax screamed "NO!" because he temporarily lost control over it. And besides, couldn't they create a small barricade to keep it in while changing Kanohi? Like a hand?

[dotcom]

I really doubt they don't have real heads behind their masks. We know Makuta have real eyes, for example. Otherwise the Phantoka Makuta could not have been blinded.That or I am misunderstanding things.

[Ektris]

Makuta armor has the equivalent of eyes in it - essentially photoreceptors, and those being damaged beyond repair is what blinded the Phantoka. So they do have completely solid, physical eyes. So there is no "eye hole" problem with masks. Again, you're taking it too literally. ~|ET|~

[Kanohi Nuva of Doom]

Maybe their head is closed off from the rest of the armor, so the antidermis can't leak out when they change masks and stuff.

[Katuko]

Given what we've seen so far, it seems rather obvious that the Makuta can keep their "cloud" together as long as it's not exposed to the elements for an extended period of time. I see "dissipating" as being more about wind and rain forcibly dispersing the gas rather than it simply being unable to hold itself together. If we go by that notion, then a few tiny gaps in the armor here and there wouldn't do all that much. Chirox began leaking after Mutran blew a hole in him, but we haven't been told the actual size of that hole. I think a small scratch would be fine, but not a large gash. I doubt the Makuta armor would have to be 100% airtight. Maxilos wasn't, and that was a decent body (though Teridax ditched it rather quickly). Interestingly enough, Makuta armor still has actual eyes that can be damaged, as evidenced by Antroz, Chirox and Vamprah. I take this to mean that they do have some sort of face built into their armor in order to wear standard masks without them falling off. It would be a bit annoying if you wanted to swap your Jutlin for a Tryna but found that the Tryna wasn't made to "fit your body" and thus left you leaking. When Takanuva tried to pry off the Krahkaan there is clearly some sort of head behind it, but it glows green, most likely "antidermis". Possibly Makuta shapeshift themselves some crude heads, but they don't bother too much about the face. The masks of the Karda Nui Makuta (especially the mutated ones) were said to be shapeshifted and looked very much like faces already. So if the Makuta uses their mask as the face and just forms the rest of the head via shapeshifting, then ripping the mask off would leave them with no face at all (just a hole ).

[HordikaMode]

Given what we've seen so far, it seems rather obvious that the Makuta can keep their "cloud" together as long as it's not exposed to the elements for an extended period of time. I see "dissipating" as being more about wind and rain forcibly dispersing the gas rather than it simply being unable to hold itself together. If we go by that notion, then a few tiny gaps in the armor here and there wouldn't do all that much. Chirox began leaking after Mutran blew a hole in him, but we haven't been told the actual size of that hole. I think a small scratch would be fine, but not a large gash. I doubt the Makuta armor would have to be 100% airtight. Maxilos wasn't, and that was a decent body (though Teridax ditched it rather quickly). Interestingly enough, Makuta armor still has actual eyes that can be damaged, as evidenced by Antroz, Chirox and Vamprah. I take this to mean that they do have some sort of face built into their armor in order to wear standard masks without them falling off. It would be a bit annoying if you wanted to swap your Jutlin for a Tryna but found that the Tryna wasn't made to "fit your body" and thus left you leaking. When Takanuva tried to pry off the Krahkaan there is clearly some sort of head behind it, but it glows green, most likely "antidermis". Possibly Makuta shapeshift themselves some crude heads, but they don't bother too much about the face. The masks of the Karda Nui Makuta (especially the mutated ones) were said to be shapeshifted and looked very much like faces already. So if the Makuta uses their mask as the face and just forms the rest of the head via shapeshifting, then ripping the mask off would leave them with no face at all (just a hole ).

Wow, you said what I did and made it make sense. Science+Antidermis=LOGIC.

[Toa Lhikan Hordika]

If you refer back to The Mutran Chronicles (Chapter 7), you'll find that after the Makuta had evolved past the point of organic tissue, they had the Nynrah Ghosts add extra layers of protosteel to their armor to thicken it, since their new energetic/gaseous forms required much less room internally than their former bodies did. Greg never detailed this process completely, but from the sounds of it, the Makuta didn't need holes in their armor to escape it to possess other things. For example, recently after they had their armor altered, Chirox possessed an Exo Toa while his body was in another chamber and he was able to go back into his body, perfectly safe after Mutran tore off one of the Exo-Toa's arms, causing Chirox's energy to leak out of it. Also, back in Bionicle Legends 11: The Final Battle, there was a part towards the end where Toa Ignika (the Mask of Life after it created a body for itself) reversed the life processes of Makuta Icarax, causing him to revert from energy back into organic tissue. Though it didn't kill him, it severely weakened him because all of his organs/organic tissue was being squished inside of his armor that was no longer suited to accommodate organic tissue. If there was no "head" as a part of his armor or if there was some sort of exit for him to vacate his armor in his energy state, I'm pretty sure he would have had all of his guts spilling out of his armor after his encounter with Toa Ignika. Since that didn't happen, I'm pretty sure his armor was quite sealed and I'm also sure that it's safe to assume that all Makuta armor was like this. Also, you have to keep in mind that the Makuta can shapeshift their armor however they wished, so it's possible that though he may have had a head, Teridax may not have had a "face" in his current from when it was crushed beneath the gate. If the Piraka saw no face, it was probably due to either that, or a combination of being separated from Takanuva and having his armor crushed together. -

[Akuna Toa of Sonics]

I think the makuta are able to control their antidermis bodies for a limited amount of time, enough to change masks, at least.

[Touko Fukawa]

Perhaps when it was said Makuta lacked a face, it meant there was just blank featureless arm-our as opposed to a hole in the arm-our?

[Dralcax]

No, there was just the hollow shell of the armor. Also, arm-our?

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Perhaps Makuta use Suva just like Toa?

[Dralcax]

No, I think they keep their Kanohi in their armories with their weapons. On my 13th birthday (In about a month), that's a question for Greg.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Makuta Dralcax

[Lewa0111 Nuva]

I always thought that "no face" just meant that behind the mask there was just a featureless black "orb" or something that was part of the armor for the mask to fit over. Makuta wouldn't have any need to build a face into their armor if they were going to wear masks all the time anyway, so all they'd need was a vaguely defined head to keep their antidermis from leaking out. "Face" =/= "Head." The Makuta have heads, but no faces on those heads. Lewa0111 Nuva

[Touko Fukawa]

Some-thing just occured to me. May-be the eyeholes are just indentations made to look like eyes as op-posed to actually holes?

Edited October 24, 2011 by Last of the Time Lords

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Some-thing just occured to me. May-be the eyeholes are just indentations made to look like eyes as op-posed to actually holes?

Maybe they're like the visors the Toa Mahri wore, and the eye colour could be from their antidermis, appearing in different colours depending on the visor colour.