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Bionicle was only good 2001-2004.


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#41 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 02:14 PM

I'm going to through my opinion into the mix. I thought Bionicle did pretty good up until 07 when they started repeating the Inika and piraka build. I Like all the years, but seeing the inika build over and over again was a little annoying. But hey, minor complaints I guess. It's really hard to keep coming up with new designs when you get a really versatile one. I have to admit, I find the inika and piraka builds very versatile. Feel free to disagree with me if you happen to disagree, but please be respectful about it.

Why was repeating that build in 2007 suddenly such a problem? After all, the Toa Mata build was repeated for the Toa Nuva in 2002 and Takanuva in 2003, and the Toa Metru build was repeated for the Toa Hagah in 2005. Even the Bohrok had exact clones in the form of the Bohrok-Kal. As I understand it, most people didn't get especially tired of the Inika build until its third year in 2008, and that was partially because people had hoped for new Toa Nuva sets to have a build that better echoed their original designs.

There's a reason I consider the Toa Inika build one of the most versatile builds in the history of BIONICLE canister sets. Many sets that used the Toa Inika torso used it with different armor (see: Carapar, Toa Mahri Jaller, Toa Mahri Matoro, Gorast, Mistika Toa Onua, Tarix, Vorox, Vastus, Stronius, and Mata Nui), or sometimes with a different build altogether (see: Mantax, Gadunka, Strakk, and Skrall). Only a handful of sets (Toa Mahri Nuparu, Phantoka Toa Kopaka, Phantoka Toa Lewa, Gelu, and Ackar) used the Toa Inika's torso constructions more or less "as-is", the same way the Toa Inika had used it.

Generally, the best parts are the ones that are designed for long-term usefulness, and that is why I love the Toa Inika torso so much. New torsos were introduced for certain sets like Toa Mahri Kongu and the Phantoka Makuta. Other sets, even more admirably, had custom torso designs based almost entirely on existing parts (Ehlek, Takadox, Pridak, Strakk, and Kiina all qualify). And plenty of titan/warrior sets were even able to use the Toa Inika torso very effectively with original armor designs. So it's not like the Toa Inika torso was used as a substitute for creativity. Rather, I feel it was used as a substitute for introducing wasteful new parts that didn't make any real functional improvements on what was already available. Part of why complaints about the Toa Inika torso always bothered me is that people didn't seem bothered because there was any problem in particular they wanted to see improved. They just wanted something new for newness's sake, and wanted an amazingly functional torso to disappear to make way for it.

What bothered me about post-2006 canister set series more than their builds (which generally continued to be wonderfully complex and diverse, with sets that reused existing torso designs making up for it in other areas) was the length of their arms and legs. Horrendously gangly proportions were the order of the day, since there was only a limited range of sizes for arms and legs, and since the torso proportions of sets had stayed roughly the same size since 2004 while legs and arms got up to five modules longer. Thankfully, Hero Factory's Character and Creature Building System has fixed that and ultimately restored sets to proportions that often rival 2001–2005 canister sets in terms of how natural they feel.

As far as story was concerned, I definitely disagree with this topic's premise. 2007 and 2008 were some of my favorite years for story. Obviously 2001 to 2004 have their own appeal, but they weren't without flaws. The second comic of 2001 ended with a cliffhanger that was never resolved. The Bohrok-Kal storyline felt somewhat tacked-on and had the Toa Nuva go their separate ways, despite two story years' worth of adventures having shown them that they were strongest together, and their new mask powers reinforcing that fact. The scenery of Mata Nui was beautiful, but it also became a bit repetitive to see the same settings every year with few changes, and even have the same sort of "mysterious underground structure" for each and every story arc's final showdown. Now, this doesn't mean I didn't love the early years of BIONICLE, but every BIONICLE story year had its flaws and its merits.

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#42 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 02:19 PM

 

 

 

 

I always thought bionicle lost "Innocence" in 2008 before that nobody really died then 2008 rolled around and people were dropping like flies


Nidhiki and Krekka would like a word with you

 


Yea and Matoro :P

 

 
And a matoran from Mahri Nui that suffocated on the coast of Voya Nui and god knows how many other characters that died in some way.
 
So yeah, there was plenty of death before 2008.

 


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#43 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 02:42 PM

2001-2004 was certainly awesome, but 2005, despite it's suckage, had some great moments in it (and it had Time Trap). 2006 and 2007 were awesome, and the serials were pretty cool in 2008 and 2009. 2010 was the only year to completely suck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always thought bionicle lost "Innocence" in 2008 before that nobody really died then 2008 rolled around and people were dropping like flies


Nidhiki and Krekka would like a word with you

 


Yea and Matoro :P

 

 
And a matoran from Mahri Nui that suffocated on the coast of Voya Nui and god knows how many other characters that died in some way.
 
So yeah, there was plenty of death before 2008.

 


Lhikan called. He agrees.

 

Jaller sticks his tongue out at all of you. 

 

Sidorak sticks his head in the door. 

 

Thousands of dead fish eaten by Matoran for a 1000 years approve this message. 

 

Even 2001 had Matoran dying. Jaller mentions that a number of his men were lost in the MNOG, and I doubt he meant they just couldn't find their way home.


Edited by Ghabulous Ghoti, Jul 05 2014 - 02:43 PM.

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#44 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 02:46 PM

Even 2001 had Matoran dying. Jaller mentions that a number of his men were lost in the MNOG, and I doubt he meant they just couldn't find their way home.

 

Technically they were frozen alive like Kopeke and were thawed off-screen. They weren't really dead. 


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#45 Offline Chro

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 02:59 PM

But it seemed that Jaller assumed they were, which leads me to believe that death was (while still obviously a very bad thing, regardless of RS, working or not) not uncommon.
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#46 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 03:22 PM

But it seemed that Jaller assumed they were, which leads me to believe that death was (while still obviously a very bad thing, regardless of RS, working or not) not uncommon.

But it was confirmed by Greg that no Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 years they lived there.


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#47 Offline Great Being Velika

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 04:12 PM

OMG RITE??!1/1? BRNG BAK BONKLES ZERO FACTORY SUX!!!1!!1!1!!!!

 

In all seriousness, I really liked Bionicle its whole run. Even though I like the old sets more doesn't mean that I can't appreciate all of them. :)


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#48 Online Zidonaro

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 05:02 PM

Sure, there were deaths, but they were not as numerous as in the last years. 


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#49 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 05:18 PM

Something a lot of people don't recognize is that a lot of the character deaths in later years take place in the serials and other web-exclusive stories, which didn't exist in the earlier years. It's a bit unfair to judge the entire story year based on those, when the core story was generally told in the books and comics.
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#50 Online Wally

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 06:39 PM

Something a lot of people don't recognize is that a lot of the character deaths in later years take place in the serials and other web-exclusive stories, which didn't exist in the earlier years. It's a bit unfair to judge the entire story year based on those, when the core story was generally told in the books and comics.

 

The later deaths still tended to be frivolous and off-hand (Guardian comes to mind), which still reflects poorly on the story. The main story wasn't much better; it had become infected with the idea that the mark of a true Cool Thing is how many references to death and deadliness you make (with the Barraki being a shining example).


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#51 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 06:40 PM

 

I'm going to through my opinion into the mix. I thought Bionicle did pretty good up until 07 when they started repeating the Inika and piraka build. I Like all the years, but seeing the inika build over and over again was a little annoying. But hey, minor complaints I guess. It's really hard to keep coming up with new designs when you get a really versatile one. I have to admit, I find the inika and piraka builds very versatile. Feel free to disagree with me if you happen to disagree, but please be respectful about it.

Why was repeating that build in 2007 suddenly such a problem? After all, the Toa Mata build was repeated for the Toa Nuva in 2002 and Takanuva in 2003, and the Toa Metru build was repeated for the Toa Hagah in 2005. Even the Bohrok had exact clones in the form of the Bohrok-Kal. As I understand it, most people didn't get especially tired of the Inika build until its third year in 2008, and that was partially because people had hoped for new Toa Nuva sets to have a build that better echoed their original designs.

There's a reason I consider the Toa Inika build one of the most versatile builds in the history of BIONICLE canister sets. Many sets that used the Toa Inika torso used it with different armor (see: Carapar, Toa Mahri Jaller, Toa Mahri Matoro, Gorast, Mistika Toa Onua, Tarix, Vorox, Vastus, Stronius, and Mata Nui), or sometimes with a different build altogether (see: Mantax, Gadunka, Strakk, and Skrall). Only a handful of sets (Toa Mahri Nuparu, Phantoka Toa Kopaka, Phantoka Toa Lewa, Gelu, and Ackar) used the Toa Inika's torso constructions more or less "as-is", the same way the Toa Inika had used it.

Generally, the best parts are the ones that are designed for long-term usefulness, and that is why I love the Toa Inika torso so much. New torsos were introduced for certain sets like Toa Mahri Kongu and the Phantoka Makuta. Other sets, even more admirably, had custom torso designs based almost entirely on existing parts (Ehlek, Takadox, Pridak, Strakk, and Kiina all qualify). And plenty of titan/warrior sets were even able to use the Toa Inika torso very effectively with original armor designs. So it's not like the Toa Inika torso was used as a substitute for creativity. Rather, I feel it was used as a substitute for introducing wasteful new parts that didn't make any real functional improvements on what was already available. Part of why complaints about the Toa Inika torso always bothered me is that people didn't seem bothered because there was any problem in particular they wanted to see improved. They just wanted something new for newness's sake, and wanted an amazingly functional torso to disappear to make way for it.

What bothered me about post-2006 canister set series more than their builds (which generally continued to be wonderfully complex and diverse, with sets that reused existing torso designs making up for it in other areas) was the length of their arms and legs. Horrendously gangly proportions were the order of the day, since there was only a limited range of sizes for arms and legs, and since the torso proportions of sets had stayed roughly the same size since 2004 while legs and arms got up to five modules longer. Thankfully, Hero Factory's Character and Creature Building System has fixed that and ultimately restored sets to proportions that often rival 2001–2005 canister sets in terms of how natural they feel.

As far as story was concerned, I definitely disagree with this topic's premise. 2007 and 2008 were some of my favorite years for story. Obviously 2001 to 2004 have their own appeal, but they weren't without flaws. The second comic of 2001 ended with a cliffhanger that was never resolved. The Bohrok-Kal storyline felt somewhat tacked-on and had the Toa Nuva go their separate ways, despite two story years' worth of adventures having shown them that they were strongest together, and their new mask powers reinforcing that fact. The scenery of Mata Nui was beautiful, but it also became a bit repetitive to see the same settings every year with few changes, and even have the same sort of "mysterious underground structure" for each and every story arc's final showdown. Now, this doesn't mean I didn't love the early years of BIONICLE, but every BIONICLE story year had its flaws and its merits.

 

 

I pretty much agree with everything here up to about...

Here:

 

The second comic of 2001 ended with a cliffhanger that was never resolved.

 

I don't exactly understand what you mean by this. I remember it being resolved really quickly in the third comic of 01, with Onua saving Lewa by digging the Muaka underground, and Tahu jumping in to save Gali.

 

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#52 Online Aanchir

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 08:09 PM


I don't exactly understand what you mean by this. I remember it being resolved really quickly in the third comic of 01, with Onua saving Lewa by digging the Muaka underground, and Tahu jumping in to save Gali.
 
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Did it? I guess I had forgotten.

Edited by Aanchir: Rachira of Time, Jul 05 2014 - 08:10 PM.

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#53 Offline Ghabulous Ghoti

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 09:45 PM

 

Even 2001 had Matoran dying. Jaller mentions that a number of his men were lost in the MNOG, and I doubt he meant they just couldn't find their way home.

 

Technically they were frozen alive like Kopeke and were thawed off-screen. They weren't really dead. 

 

 

 

 

But it seemed that Jaller assumed they were, which leads me to believe that death was (while still obviously a very bad thing, regardless of RS, working or not) not uncommon.

But it was confirmed by Greg that no Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 years they lived there.

 

 

“The Makuta led them into the ice, and I fear they will not return,” Kopeke answers. “Had you not come and saved me, I would be facing a similar fate.”

 

Seems to imply death, but if Greg says otherwise, then this will be added to my own pesonal headcanon. No Matoran at all died? That's kinda ridiculous. I know Terry wasn't trying to kill them, but you'd think accidents of some kind would lead to at least a few deaths.


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#54 Offline Gengar

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 11:05 PM

I always thought bionicle lost "Innocence" in 2008 before that nobody really died then 2008 rolled around and people were dropping like flies


Nidhiki and Krekka would like a word with you

Yea and Matoro :P
 
And a matoran from Mahri Nui that suffocated on the coast of Voya Nui and god knows how many other characters that died in some way.
 
So yeah, there was plenty of death before 2008.

Lhikan called. He agrees.
Jaller sticks his tongue out at all of you. 
 
Sidorak sticks his head in the door. 
 
Thousands of dead fish eaten by Matoran for a 1000 years approve this message.
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#55 Offline Toa Varova

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 12:59 AM

 

I always thought bionicle lost "Innocence" in 2008 before that nobody really died then 2008 rolled around and people were dropping like flies

 

Nidhiki and Krekka would like a word with you.

 

That made my whole day.

 

Lemme throw my hat into the ring. Now, 2004 is probably my favorite year for a number of reasons that I shouldn't mention under this very topic. While I never took 2005 all that seriously, it had a couple good things. But 2006 was revolutionary. It introduced sets that far surpassed 2001-4's sets in practically every way, it brought new pieces and colors into the mix that expanded BIONICLE's capabilities, and sported light-up pieces (even if they didn't go too far). But if nostalgia's where you're coming from, PrismWind, I can kinda see what you're saying. I still disagree anyway, though.


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#56 Offline Tyler is Love

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 02:32 AM

Each year had its positives and negatives, and judging one better than another is, for the most part, purely a matter of personal taste (except for 2005, which we can all agree was "pretty weak, yo"). The early years were fresh and mysterious, but they lacked detail and meaningful character development. The later years were complex and full of twists and turns, but often became too complex for their own good, and lost much of the sense of wonder that permeated the first four years.

 

And as far as sets go, there have been more clones than not from the very beginning; nobody can seriously argue that it started with the Inika. I also find it interesting that many people complain about the Inika build being reused in 2007 when that same year saw the release of some of the most unique builds seen in BIONICLE canister sets (re: the Barraki).

 

Nostalgia plays a huge part too, so, again, it comes down to personal preference, and no debate will solve the issue once and for all.


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#57 Offline Zestanor

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 09:51 AM

Maybe this isn't fair, but I think that things like this:

 

 

But it was confirmed by Greg that no Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 years they lived there.

Or the Red Star thing, which was only offhandedly revealed through personal email correspondence with Greg (kind of like, "well this is what was going to be revealed"), can be dismissed from the official canon. It never made a difference; the Red Star/no-one-dies explanation never came to pass in the story proper. So, now it's just sitting there as the "official explanation," but all it's really doing is retconning the traditional, logical understanding of some things. Specifically that, maybe, people die.

Now, I love '01 through '03, but... you really can't even compare the early years with MOL through the end. I mean, besides MOL... there was no story! There's a reason why the early years were more mysterious: the content just wasn't there. '01 had fairly insignificant comics. '02 had good comics that told a complete story. '03 Kal actually had very significant comics; I think it is the only time comics were as important to following the story as those. After that, the comics got in the backseat while movies and books drove the story  Now, as an afterthought, each '01 to '03 story arc got a short book right before the movie came out. BC #1 was good, and it filled in where the comics were silent. (It also introduced the tradition of being careless about continuity. Gold Masks from the Suvas? Nah! Let's make up something totally new! Toa actually fight Makuta? Nah! Ain't nobody got time fo dat!) And BC #2 and #3 were verbatim novelizations of the comics. What the early years had going for them was the atmosphere, not plotline. To say that 2001 was the best year for story -- what, MNOG? There's no "plot" until the Chronicler's Company forms.

On the other hand, starting with MOL (and Tales of the Masks, which acts as a lead in to MOL, but was published in December 2003), Bionicle's story went way above and beyond. '06 through '08 especially gave me this feeling that everything was coming to a climax, even if it was overwhelming to follow all the content in order.


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#58 Online Wally

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 01:28 PM

Maybe this isn't fair, but I think that things like this:
 

But it was confirmed by Greg that no Matoran died on Mata Nui during the 1000 years they lived there.

Or the Red Star thing, which was only offhandedly revealed through personal email correspondence with Greg (kind of like, "well this is what was going to be revealed"), can be dismissed from the official canon. It never made a difference; the Red Star/no-one-dies explanation never came to pass in the story proper. So, now it's just sitting there as the "official explanation," but all it's really doing is retconning the traditional, logical understanding of some things. Specifically that, maybe, people die.

Now, I love '01 through '03, but... you really can't even compare the early years with MOL through the end. I mean, besides MOL... there was no story! There's a reason why the early years were more mysterious: the content just wasn't there. '01 had fairly insignificant comics. '02 had good comics that told a complete story. '03 Kal actually had very significant comics; I think it is the only time comics were as important to following the story as those. After that, the comics got in the backseat while movies and books drove the story  Now, as an afterthought, each '01 to '03 story arc got a short book right before the movie came out. BC #1 was good, and it filled in where the comics were silent. (It also introduced the tradition of being careless about continuity. Gold Masks from the Suvas? Nah! Let's make up something totally new! Toa actually fight Makuta? Nah! Ain't nobody got time fo dat!) And BC #2 and #3 were verbatim novelizations of the comics. What the early years had going for them was the atmosphere, not plotline. To say that 2001 was the best year for story -- what, MNOG? There's no "plot" until the Chronicler's Company forms.

On the other hand, starting with MOL (and Tales of the Masks, which acts as a lead in to MOL, but was published in December 2003), Bionicle's story went way above and beyond. '06 through '08 especially gave me this feeling that everything was coming to a climax, even if it was overwhelming to follow all the content in order.

 

If it slipped from Greg's mouth and splattered on the floor in an unappealing mess, it's canon. That's how it works. Even if you don't like it, even if it goes against all possible logic (like any time he invoked "Earth physics don't apply (except when they do)"), even if it never actually played out in canon, if he said it, it's canon.

 

I don't get what you mean about 01-03 lacking in story and plot development? For starters, 2002 set up a mystery that wouldn't be solved until 2008. MNOG had all sorts of plot to it, giving us glimpses of Toa fighting Rahi but, more importantly, being the only source of canon to actually care about what the Matoran are up to. The Nui Rama kidnapped a sizable chunk of Le-Koro, including Lewa, but were saved by Onua. Doesn't that sound like some story? Ga-Koro was trapped in a hut by a Rahi attack, released by Takua, and then the Rahi was defeated by Gali. Doesn't that sound like story? It wasn't all the MAIN story of the year (because that was supposed to be shown through LOMN) but there were all sorts of little worldbuilding stories in MNOG.

 

What happened from 2004 on was that the story was told dramatically differently. Greg Farshtey's writing ranged from good for a children's book to overwhelmingly mediocre. The story itself was presented almost blandly at times, with events just happening left and right that sometimes I swear even the characters couldn't bring themselves to care about too hard. Remember the King Root of the Morbuzakh? Sometimes I don't, because in the end its impact was minor. The Morbuzakh were defeated, and the Toa are supposed to have learned something about working together..... except OOPS! They conveniently forget that part every time a new challenge comes along. Krahka? Oh no we hate each other again. Persecuted by false Dume? This is all your fault Vakama, despite you being right about things so far. Visorak? Wow, we hate each other again. I swear, the Toa Metru would have gone through the least character development of any Toa team if it didn't get worse from there. After 2005, Bionicle became infected with a need for dark edginess, especially 2006-2007. Even worse, it was written with such mediocrity it all came off as trite and cliche.


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#59 Online Makuta Miras

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 03:00 PM

I completely disagree with the title of this topic.

 

2008 especially is my favourite year, closely followed by 2007. Why, you may ask? Because in 2007:

1. The whole "Deep-sea underwater war with massive stakes" thing was just... amazing (Bear in mind that I was six at the time);

2. A TOA WITH WINGS!!!!!! (In fact, that particular Toa with wings was my first ever online purchase, made in 2008)

And finally 3, The masks were really good. (Apart from the Zatth and the Garai).

 

And for 2008,

1. The Phantoka Nuva had massive cannons. 

2. Everyone could fly. (One of my main aims in life, other than leaving the planet at some point, is to get a fully-functional jetpack, or go skydiving.)

3. Phantoka Lewa had a cannon, a massive sword, and jetpacks.

4. The Phantoka Makuta had the Tridax pod function. I remember having a very happy Christmas 2008 turning most of family into shadow versions of themselves with the help of Antroz and Chirox.

 

On the other hand, I have found a lot of pre-2006 torsos to be nearly incompatible with the Inika ones. The Mata/Nuva torsos are an especially good example of this, as they are very hard to incorporate into anything which isn't humanoid, and the 2006/2007 Matoran designs were arguably superior and more creative than any other Matoran build before. Just look at this: In every year before the introduction of the Inika build, Matoran had new bodies. 2001/02: Unique body and arms. 2003: Unique body, including the gear housing. 2004: Unique armour on the torso. 2006: Unique designs all round, but with only existing pieces. 2007: Re-use of Hordika armour, with Mata arms and Bohrok legs. I see the Mahtoran as the pinnacle of Matoran design.

I just love those two years, 07 and 08.   :infected:


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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 03:23 PM

I completely disagree with the title of this topic.
 
2008 especially is my favourite year, closely followed by 2007. Why, you may ask? Because in 2007:
1. The whole "Deep-sea underwater war with massive stakes" thing was just... amazing (Bear in mind that I was six at the time);
2. A TOA WITH WINGS!!!!!! (In fact, that particular Toa with wings was my first ever online purchase, made in 2008)
And finally 3, The masks were really good. (Apart from the Zatth and the Garai).
 
And for 2008,
1. The Phantoka Nuva had massive cannons. 
2. Everyone could fly. (One of my main aims in life, other than leaving the planet at some point, is to get a fully-functional jetpack, or go skydiving.)
3. Phantoka Lewa had a cannon, a massive sword, and jetpacks.
4. The Phantoka Makuta had the Tridax pod function. I remember having a very happy Christmas 2008 turning most of family into shadow versions of themselves with the help of Antroz and Chirox.
 
On the other hand, I have found a lot of pre-2006 torsos to be nearly incompatible with the Inika ones. The Mata/Nuva torsos are an especially good example of this, as they are very hard to incorporate into anything which isn't humanoid, and the 2006/2007 Matoran designs were arguably superior and more creative than any other Matoran build before. Just look at this: In every year before the introduction of the Inika build, Matoran had new bodies. 2001/02: Unique body and arms. 2003: Unique body, including the gear housing. 2004: Unique armour on the torso. 2006: Unique designs all round, but with only existing pieces. 2007: Re-use of Hordika armour, with Mata arms and Bohrok legs. I see the Mahtoran as the pinnacle of Matoran design.
I just love those two years, 07 and 08.   :infected:

None of the reasons you listed are really connected with why I liked 2007–2008. For me it was more about the sets offering more variety than previous years. Not to mention the storyline. It was fantastic to see all the setup from previous years finally start to pay off. The 2006 storyline bothered me... it felt a bit too action-packed for my liking, without a lot of time for introspection or character development. 2007 helped make up for that. The moment in the books where Jaller asks Kongu why he adopted his wisecracking attitude is a favorite moment of mine.

Even the villains in 2006–2007 were pretty neat. The Piraka were the first canister set villains with real personalities, but they struck me as a bit irritating and stupid. It's fine for a villain to be selfish or even to have a backstabbing streak, but the Piraka hated working together, even when it was obviously in their best interest. Seriously, if your elemental powers only work when you team up, why do you keep fighting each other? It was as stupid as when the Toa Nuva went their separate ways immediately after getting mask powers that they just so happened to be able to share with one another. The Barraki felt a bit more intelligent to me, knowing how and when to make alliances and not grumbling so much about it. They still weren't great villains (Octodad's comment about their over-the-top deadly-serious attitude is a very valid criticism), but they at least weren't so annoyingly inept.

But I definitely agree about the 2006 and 2007 Matoran being some of the best designs. The 2006 ones were weird compared to our expectations, but still very charming, with great color schemes, good articulation, and rather cute proportions. The 2007 ones were definitely the pinnacle of "normal" Matoran designs. They felt like a more polished version of the 2004 Matoran, with better articulation (well, excluding the wrists, at any rate) and no reliance on a specialized new part as their structural backbone.

I was not fond of the Matoran redesign in 2008. The improvements to articulation were good, but I feel like something was lost by switching from cutesy proportions, with short legs and large bodies, to the longer legs of the later Matoran sets. And obviously the parts being used to build the 2008 Matoran, 2009 Agori, and 2010 Stars tended to be more specialized than a lot of previous Matoran parts. I can see what the designers were getting at, but if BIONICLE returns I would like the Matoran to feel more like they did in the theme's first seven years.

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#61 Offline randomreviewerbros

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Posted Jul 15 2014 - 06:28 PM

well personally i missed alot of the early sets (2001-2003) but i have got alot of them on ebay and i must say they are great because of the more technicality in the builds and the better pieces used than the sets from 2006-2010, but i personally liked the fact that every character was different than eachother after 2006 and they all had their own seperate personalities, but thats my personal opinion, i really liked every year of bionicle


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#62 Offline Ras

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Posted Jul 16 2014 - 11:23 AM

They were my favorite years but I looked the whole series. The original bionicle style was more like boneheads on voodoo island which was what I always liked but I looked the story all the way out
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#63 Offline justin_verceles

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Posted Jul 19 2014 - 10:02 AM

Not being a fan that started during those years, I can sort of give an objective standpoint on this. As much as I enjoyed the building designs of 2001 - 2004, and as much as I wished gear functions would continue before Bionicle had ended,  I must say that I enjoyed the dark feel of the 2007 sets. And I can't be the only one who got really excited when Lego released the story that explained the origins of the Bionicle Universe.


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#64 Offline XxToaTahuxX

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Posted Jul 21 2014 - 05:27 PM

Well I think I liked 2007 08 and 01-04 pretty much
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#65 Offline MetaToa

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Posted Jul 22 2014 - 10:07 PM

I wouldn't put it like that, just giving a stream of the "only" good years and then just cutting it all off abruptly at there. BIONICLE has good years and bad years. 2005 was a fairly shaky year for BIONICLE, as was 2009, but the only year that I could say really sucked was 2010. The best years were probably 2001-2003 (the "Golden Years"), and everything else that wasn't 2005, 2009, and 2010. Anyhow, that's my personal opinion.

 


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#66 Offline Detox

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Posted Jul 22 2014 - 11:05 PM

I wouldn't say it sucked just it got a little worse but saying that it sucked is kind of negative. I know everyone's entitled to there own opinions but don't you think that it sucks is to harsh? I didn't think it sucked because I got pulled into Bionicle in 2004 and have been a fan ever since to I'm sorry but I don't think it "sucked". ~ :m:  :e:  :t:  :a:

 

 

 

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#67 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Jul 23 2014 - 08:07 AM

Not going to comment on sets, but as for story....

 

I became a BIONICLE fan around 2004-2005 so the whole nostalgia value for the first three years is lost on me. Looking back on them, I appreciate their mystery and excellent mythology, as well as absolutely stunning worldbuilding, and the impressively detailed Matoran culture they put together. Still, for all those positive aspects, other parts of the story got the short end of the stick. The story itself wasn't the most excited and tended to be formulaic a lot of the time, and the themes as well as character development were pretty basic. It was around the Metru Nui saga that things ended up becoming more complex and nuanced, and the bigger picture of the story began to become better focused. The excellent worldbuilding was still there, though it was of a different kind to the world of Mata Nui, and this time it was accompanied by great character development and a story that was willing to challenge its characters and as a result had a darker edge.

 

Vakama had a great and long 2 year character arc that culminated in the superb Time Trap, and his adventures with his team produced some of the best story BIONICLE has to offer. The Darkness Below was a story that showed how fragile and weak the Toa's supposed unity was based on nothing more than their naiive personalities and inexperience. It got better after that, with the supposed heroes branded by the government as criminals and forced to be on the run, etc. It was all really good and made for a thrilling story that showed that BIONICLE could be more bold in its story development. People, both heroes and villains, could die, our heroes were weighed down by imperfections and inexperience, and sometimes there wasn't always a happy ending. 

 

BIONICLE continued to subvert and deconstruct many of its own tropes throughout the Ignition saga (2006-2008) and blurred the line between 'good' and 'evil' by showing us stuff like the Order of Mata Nui, a group that killed without restraint for the supposed good of the universe, etc. The story reached greater and more epic heighs, plot twists and surprises existed in abundance (sometimes a little too much, I admit) and overall it was a thrilling ride, and 2008 was the best and most jaw-dropping conclusion to the original Toa's story anyone could have hoped for. Things didn't run as smoothly in BIONICLE's last years due to its abrupt end and overly-complex story, but that doesn't invalidate the great story that came before.


Edited by toa kopaka4372, Jul 23 2014 - 08:18 AM.

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#68 Offline Bricknave

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Posted Jul 23 2014 - 12:27 PM

My least favorite years in terms of story were 2005 and 2007. Both stories were quests that had been extended, and seemed like 'filler' to me.

 

My least favorite year in terms of figures was 2008. It was great to see the Toa Mata back in the spotlight, but their figures were a little too gray for my tastes.


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#69 Offline Fang RRB

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Posted Jul 23 2014 - 03:48 PM

The first 4 years were nice but i liked 05, 08 and 09 so IDK if I would say, the first 4 years weren't the best (But were Great).


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#70 Offline Vorahk1Panrahk2

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Posted Jul 25 2014 - 10:03 AM

 

Then you should look at Greg's answers to fan questions where he says Krika was still evil, and his opposition to Teridax's plans came from self-serving desires. Black and white morality never really ceased being a thing Bionicle clung to like a limpet.

 

 

That seems like an interesting thing for Greg to say. I was under the impression from the books that he was intended to be a more grey character, but I guess I'm just wrong there.

 

Anyway, I don't know if BIONICLE was "better" in its later years than it was in its earlier ones, but what I can say is that I think the story was much easier to follow pre 2007. When you split between several different mediums (story serials, comics, books, movies) it becomes almost a chore to follow the story and try to piece the events together into a coherent picture. I'm glad an effort was made to make the world deeper and richer, but I think there are better ways to do it.

 

As for sets, my personal preference is for the more technic based models of earlier years, but that doesn't make what came later bad. Nor does it excuse some of the issues of the Pre-2006 sets where we got a lot of clone sets and repetitive builds. If anything I think there was more slightly more build variation within the Mahri and Phantoka lines than there was within the Metru or Nuva. When the designers weren't relying on the Inika torso, we actually got some pretty good builds, like Matoro Mahri. And then there are the Barraki, where only two out six used the Inika or Piraka torso. So despite the fact that I don't prefer them, I can understand why some like the sets of the later years.


Edited by Vorahk1Panrahk2, Jul 25 2014 - 07:43 PM.

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#71 Offline Banana Gunz

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Posted Jul 25 2014 - 04:56 PM

Alright... bionicle, bionicle, bionicle, where to begin...

 

First off I'd like to get something straight, 2010 was not the worst it could've ever been. If you read the 2010 serials, it was actually pretty interesting, its just the general way it was presented was boring. People would have liked it a lot better if it had something like its own MNOG.

 

The biggest problems with the Glatorian era were:

-Too short, not enough time to develop a deeper connection and care for this world

-No really good set of centralized characters going on adventures together, and doing good as not just allies, but friends

-Not enough magical/mystical elements

-Not enough connections to the original universe (there were plenty but people were still getting pretty homesick...)

-A way to explore and understand this universe (Like the MNOG)

-Overly basic sets, lack of collectiability

 

If all of this and some extra heart and soul could have made the Glatorian era amazing. It had the mystery and inspiration for sure. It just didn't go exactly where it had to and should've. It had the right idea for the most part, but lacked too heavily in the things that made the other years so interesting.

 

 

 

2001-2003 has this real soft spot in my heart because of the mystery and the influence of the maori culture in it. It had a really fantastic setting which was easy to identify and see. The characters were unique and had a really fun island-ish feel. It was really basic, but really, really fun! The sets were lacking in pose ability but mastered (or at least strived to master) functionality and play ability as an offshoot of Technic. They also were probably the most successful in terms of collecting (collectibles are actually of much greater importance than one might think)

 

 

 

2004-2005 was... in its own little universe (not literally, but literally :P ). The whole idea of a huge futuristic city in Bionicle was interesting but it always seemed a little TOO advanced, and way too far from the interesting tropical island of Mata-Nui. Plus there wasn't much mystery to grab my attention. But the sets of this year were some of the best (at least the toa were). They managed the greatest balance between poseability and functionality, and did pretty well with collectibles. 2005 was interesting because it took what it had done the year before and gave it a really cool twist, but it didn't feel like it used all the creative potential it had, but people under rate it, it did very well in developing the characters of the Toa Metru and helping to build the final ultimate bond of trust between them. Perhaps our trip back in time was a little too short though. I feel as if a year or two extra would've made it more memorable, because it really hit a good balance, something one can find to be very rare in Bionicle.

 

 

 

The Ignition series... was flippin' sweet (for the most part). Things got really intense in terms of story and such but it was lacking in mystery and character development (it was a little impersonal, not showing connections and relationships between its heroes as much as the previous years). It also didn't have thoroughly developed and detailed settings either. On the Island of Mata-Nui, you could tell what happened exactly where on the map of the island (for the most part), but in these years such things have been lost. The sets were pretty cool but lacked functionality and collect ability. They focused a lot on design but was a little separated from the designs of the earlier years. You didn't get a lot of new interesting masks or artifacts that upgraded or made the Toa cooler. In 2001-2003 alone, the Toa Mata got the Golden Kanohi and later upgraded into the Toa Nuva. There was a lot of interaction between the sets, like the Bohrok being able to knock off their masks and replace them with a Krana. The Ignition years lacked so much of this. Think about it, the biggest and most important thing about 2006 and 2007 was the Mask of Life, and we didn't even get a real one in set form until 2008. But the plot development towards the Grand (almost) Finale of 2008, with the epic takeover of Makuta.

 

To say that Bionicle was only good from 2001 to 2004 isn't really true. It's a personal opinion (because each year had a pretty different feel and some people might like the grittier and darker 2006 and some might like the futuristic 2004, it's all a matter of prefrence). Each year had its ups and downs, things it excelled at, and things it did poorly at. There's a whole lot to consider before saying one year is better than another completely. Years such as the Glatorian era can for sure be ranked lower than 2001-2003 but years such as the Ignition series actually excelled in plot from Bionicles previous, more classic years. Just remember to enjoy and try to look at the good in all the years, because LEGO and the Bionicle story teams worked hard to bring us all the epic legend that is, the Bionicle.


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#72 Online Toa of Gallifrey

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Posted Jul 25 2014 - 04:59 PM

My favorite years were 2004-2008 (even though it covers two separate arcs) because that's when the story got depth and the sets evolved. The villains felt properly threatening, the plot became much more complex (which I understand many dislike but I like), we got the Metru and Inika builds which were both great for playability and the latter for adding on to the base, we got some fantastic Kanohi designs and titan sets (Axonn is still my favorite titan) and we got the Piraka Rap the Mahri and Phantoka/Mistika, two of my favorite Toa designs (don't shoot me please). In 2001-2003 the story was a bit too simple for my taste. I did enjoy the books, though, but the comics felt lacking until the Kal. In later years I thoroughly enjoyed the books, comics and serials. I liked the tribal feel but I felt like it'd get old if kept around for too long, I feel like the move to sci-fi in 2004 was done at the right time. The sets were nice, and while I loved the gear systems, the lack of jointed limbs was really annoying and having to remove the head to pose it was also annoying. 2009 I enjoyed as well, but felt a bit like we just got the biggest plot twist in the history of plot twists and I was looking forward to seeing how it unfolded but then we suddenly got a brand new world. We did get Reign of Shadows, though, which was brilliant. I really liked 2009's story, although I wish they had given it a bit more time without Mata Nui to explore more about Bara Magna. I also wish we got the original 2010 story. Just, biomechanical dinosaurs. 2010 in general felt rushed but I was really enjoying The Powers That Be, but that got cut short.


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#73 Offline MegaTahuAdvanced

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Posted Aug 21 2014 - 11:48 PM

My favorite part of bionicle was 2001-2010
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#74 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 12:00 AM

 

 

Things got really intense in terms of story and such but it was lacking in mystery and character development (it was a little impersonal, not showing connections and relationships between its heroes as much as the previous years)

2007 begs to disagree with you.


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#75 Offline Turaga Heontris

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 01:59 AM

All this depth and complexity was dropped. The mysticism was thrown out to make room for the brotherhood of makuta, the order of mata nui, etc. A Great Spirit was replaced by a giant robot.

Mata Nui was a giant robot all along. In fact, it was the most basic concept of BIONICLE everything else was built upon.

-Gata signoff.png
Yes, and one of the pictures of their old concept art from before it really started even showed the fingers of the robot far in the distance like giant squarish mountains.

(Also, I loved the Inika. Right there is where I felt it became more dark and was spiralling towards something grand. In this case, Makuta's takeover and the murders of tons of innocents/other good guys (seriously, look at the toa count afterwards).)

But yeah, I loved every year of it.
(Especially the storyline. Without it I'd probably not still be such a big fan of BIONICLE.)

Aaand finally, I did love the last few years especially. That was because I love the complex story lines that you have to chase around to understand, and the Serials really gave me that, and it gave me a reason to review again on the older BIONICLE stuff to go make connections between things.

Edited by Heontris, Aug 22 2014 - 02:30 AM.

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#76 Online Aanchir

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 10:22 AM

Things got really intense in terms of story and such but it was lacking in mystery and character development (it was a little impersonal, not showing connections and relationships between its heroes as much as the previous years)

2007 begs to disagree with you.

Thank you so much. The exploration of relationships between the Toa in 2007 was one of my favorite things about that year, and part of the reason why BIONICLE Legends #7 has long been one of my favorite BIONICLE books. It really gave us what the fast-paced 2006 storyline had lacked.

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#77 Offline Banana Gunz

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 05:06 PM

 

 

Things got really intense in terms of story and such but it was lacking in mystery and character development (it was a little impersonal, not showing connections and relationships between its heroes as much as the previous years)

2007 begs to disagree with you.

 

Thank you so much. The exploration of relationships between the Toa in 2007 was one of my favorite things about that year, and part of the reason why BIONICLE Legends #7 has long been one of my favorite BIONICLE books. It really gave us what the fast-paced 2006 storyline had lacked.

 

 

Oh, never mind. I never finished reading all the Bionicle books (due to avaliability). I think I stopped after the 2004 story arc. I really should finish those books someday...


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#78 Online Aanchir

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 05:45 PM

Things got really intense in terms of story and such but it was lacking in mystery and character development (it was a little impersonal, not showing connections and relationships between its heroes as much as the previous years)

2007 begs to disagree with you.

Thank you so much. The exploration of relationships between the Toa in 2007 was one of my favorite things about that year, and part of the reason why BIONICLE Legends #7 has long been one of my favorite BIONICLE books. It really gave us what the fast-paced 2006 storyline had lacked.

 
Oh, never mind. I never finished reading all the Bionicle books (due to avaliability). I think I stopped after the 2004 story arc. I really should finish those books someday...

I definitely agree. Even if you end up disliking them, I think they're good enough to be worth reading at least once just to find out whether you like or dislike them. My local library has a bunch of BIONICLE books in their kids' fiction department. You should check yours as well, if you have one!

The 2005 books were also pretty good, giving the Toa Hordika much more depth than you could pick up on in the comics and movie. I know Greg Farshtey has gone on record stating that he would have had Matau betray the others rather than Vakama if given the choice, but I think he did an admirable job translating Vakama's angst over Lhikan's death and his other various insecurities about being a Toa into something that, coupled with the influence of the Hordika venom, could believably lead him to turn away from his duty as a Toa and his unity with his teammates.

I was not terribly fond of the 2006 BIONICLE books. To me it felt like they were just crisis after crisis, danger after danger, and that never slowed down enough for a lot of heartwarming or enlightening moments of characterization for the Toa Inika. Even though the serials are often criticized, I think that their introduction in mid-2007 performed an important function, as instead of having to make room in the main story for secondary characters like Karzahni, Lesovikk, Mazeka, and Vultraz, or for checking in on a bloated cast of characters from previous story arcs like the Toa Nuva or the Dark Hunters, the main story was free to focus specifically on the characters who mattered most to each story year — the current Toa team, their current allies, and their current enemies.

The 2008 BIONICLE books are also pretty good, and can mostly stand on their own without the support of the side-stories and serials. It was great, for the very first time, to see the Toa Nuva working together in harmony and not troubled by random and childish impulses to abandon their teammates. I don't know whether I'd consider them as good as the 2007 books, but then again it's been a while since I read them and my recollection of the 2007 books might be colored slightly by what a relief it was for me after a feeling of relative disappointment in 2006.

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#79 Offline Banana Gunz

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 07:43 PM

 

 

 

 

Things got really intense in terms of story and such but it was lacking in mystery and character development (it was a little impersonal, not showing connections and relationships between its heroes as much as the previous years)

2007 begs to disagree with you.

 

Thank you so much. The exploration of relationships between the Toa in 2007 was one of my favorite things about that year, and part of the reason why BIONICLE Legends #7 has long been one of my favorite BIONICLE books. It really gave us what the fast-paced 2006 storyline had lacked.

 

 
Oh, never mind. I never finished reading all the Bionicle books (due to avaliability). I think I stopped after the 2004 story arc. I really should finish those books someday...

 

 

*snip*

 

 

I've always wanted to read the books. I've checked my old library, and they weren't there, but I recently moved to another part of my city and haven't checked there. The Bionicle books I did read were great and I wish I had read them all. I'd wanted to see the Bionicle lore in more detail, the comics for example, weren't great in 2007 so as much as I liked Matoro's death and the whole story arc, I never got a load of the mahri and who they were.

 

It's sad if the 2006 books aren't great, the story is super cool that year (and it doesn't matter to me that it got darker; Mata-Nui was dying and the Toa Nuva were defeated, I feel like that's enough reason to get dark). Aw well.


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#80 Offline Tenth Norik

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Posted Aug 22 2014 - 08:34 PM

It's not that they weren't great, they were just a little too fast and danger after danger to explore the relationship between each Inika.
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