Who would you have made the sacrifice? Takanuva, or Matoro?

[Archon~]

So, I know it's been a while since Matoro's death, like 7, almost 8 years ago (wow im old), and I know Matoro is treated like a Bionicle martyr, but Takanuva has also had quite a prominent and unique role in the story, so I'm just wondering:

Would you have rather had him sacrifice himself for Mata Nui's life?

[dotcom]

Seems like a ridiculously arbitrary question. Why Takanuva? We could say literally any other character instead of Takanuva, and it would still be a weird question. Why does it make a difference?

 

It was set up to be Matoro from the beginning of the Ignition arc. That's what was meant to happen, and it's what happened, and it was pretty great. Let's leave it be. 

[Archon~]

Seems like a ridiculously arbitrary question. Why Takanuva? We could say literally any other character instead of Takanuva, and it would still be a weird question. Why does it make a difference?

 

It was set up to be Matoro from the beginning of the Ignition arc. That's what was meant to happen, and it's what happened, and it was pretty great. Let's leave it be.

 

I knew somebody would bring this up, even though I attempted to explain that Takanuva has a unique destiny, that's why I'm not bringing this up for any other character, and that's why I'm asking the community.

I understand you liked that Matoro made the sacrifice but why "leave it be" when I'm asking how people feel about a story event and if they would alter it.

If you feel the question is random or ridicilous, that's fine, feel free to press tre back button on your browser, not question the intentions of the topic's origins.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I still would've preferred Matoro. His character from the beginning of 06 to the end of 07 was that he never felt like a hero. In his opinion he was 'just a translator.' He was argubly the most humble of the Toa Mahri as well. All of this made his sacrifice that much more tragic and great from the viewpoint of the reader. 

 

Now if they had set up Takanuva on this same path, then things could've been different. (Same could be said about anything in story.) If the traits I stated above were applied to Takanuva and he was apart of the story as Matoro was, then I could see him making that sacrifice. But as the story was told up to that point, it made the most sense for Matoro to give his life. So that is why I chose him.

[Pomegranate]

Matoro was fine, and it was a very powerful sacrifice, and it worked really well because he really wasn't thaaaat important of a character. What I mean is, like, if it were Takanuva, it would be seen more like "killing him off" rather than "this character made a heroic sacrifice". Takanuva is a very unique character in the Bionicle universe an his absence would've been a waste, I think. I feel like that's the kind of commentary fans would've been making had it happened that way.

[CeeCee]

Oh god. For me Takanuva would be so much more heart breaking though

[believe victims]

I would have really thrown people for a loop and had Tiribomba make the sacrifice.

 

Look at that name. That is the name of a true hero.

[Archon~]

Matoro was fine, and it was a very powerful sacrifice, and it worked really well because he really wasn't thaaaat important of a character. What I mean is, like, if it were Takanuva, it would be seen more like "killing him off" rather than "this character made a heroic sacrifice". Takanuva is a very unique character in the Bionicle universe an his absence would've been a waste, I think. I feel like that's the kind of commentary fans would've been making had it happened that way.

So you're saying Matoro making a sacrifice instead of Takanuva would be like Neville sacrificing himself (hypothetically) instead of Harry? I get that.

[dotcom]

 

Seems like a ridiculously arbitrary question. Why Takanuva? We could say literally any other character instead of Takanuva, and it would still be a weird question. Why does it make a difference?

 

It was set up to be Matoro from the beginning of the Ignition arc. That's what was meant to happen, and it's what happened, and it was pretty great. Let's leave it be.

I knew somebody would bring this up, even though I attempted to explain that Takanuva has a unique destiny, that's why I'm not bringing this up for any other character, and that's why I'm asking the community.

I understand you liked that Matoro made the sacrifice but why "leave it be" when I'm asking how people feel about a story event and if they would alter it.

If you feel the question is random or ridicilous, that's fine, feel free to press tre back button on your browser, not question the intentions of the topic's origins.

 

I suppose that's fair, though in any case I think it could have done better as a general question rather than Takanuva specifically. 

[Makuta Miras]

Matoro! Because Takanuva's the only Toa of Light in the universe, so if Taka had died, there wouldn't have been anyone around to scare off the Makuta.

[Pomegranate]

I would have really thrown people for a loop and had Tiribomba make the sacrifice.

 

Look at that name. That is the name of a true hero.

Don't you dare, that matoran is a treasure, I'd cry for the rest of my life!

 

[UngluedBike]

What is cannon, stays cannon. Although if my OCD had kicked in, I would have said Takanuva.

[toa kopaka4372]

As the story was written, it couldn't have been anyone other than Matoro. His whole character arc was building up to that sacrifice, and it's what made it so powerful. Takanuva sacrificing himself wouldn't have made as much thematic sense as his character was written. 

 

So yeah, I wouldn't change how that unfolded.

[Thormen]

 

Matoro was fine, and it was a very powerful sacrifice, and it worked really well because he really wasn't thaaaat important of a character. What I mean is, like, if it were Takanuva, it would be seen more like "killing him off" rather than "this character made a heroic sacrifice". Takanuva is a very unique character in the Bionicle universe an his absence would've been a waste, I think. I feel like that's the kind of commentary fans would've been making had it happened that way.

So you're saying Matoro making a sacrifice instead of Takanuva would be like Neville sacrificing himself (hypothetically) instead of Harry? I get that.

 

There's two important differences there:

 

1) Harry didn't stay dead. Matoro did.

2) Harry Potter #7 was originally intended to be the last book and featured a grand finale. After Matoro's death, we still had a year to go until the grand finale of the saga of Mata Nui's awakening, and that wasn't the even the end of BIONICLE.

 

How would Harry Potter #7 have turned out if Harry had thrown himself in front of Dumbledore at the end of book #6 and permanently died?

[Banana Gunz]

I can see why you might've decided Takanuva was a good idea for that sacrifice, but I don't think it should've been him. Matoro was special and different as a character and his personality/story in the end made it a bigger impact on me (he never felt that he could be a hero but ended up being the greatest of them all). Plus Takanuva could've had other signifigance in the future (obviously it ended up not being so, but Takanuva always was a bag of missed opportunity).

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

I was and still am strongly opposed to the idea of wasting of needs heroic sacrificing of life just to be able to give life in return (saving others from harm or destroying a portal of sorts to ensure a enemy disappears is fine).

Early 2006 when i heard of the concept of the mask of life before the year was underway i vowed to nearly quit bionicle if any ice related character would be involved in such death.

 

The room of death trap which the toa inika encountered along the path of 777 stairs, which required a proof of courage by subjecting to the death laser was a close call when matoro was returned afterward beofre the door opened to let them go on.

and matoro had to be written off in 2007.

But later the Ignika itself never needed a sacrifice unlike matoro to create it's phantoka body in 2008, even if it was greater power usage than minor empowerment of the mahri. The mask literally broke the rules that had been written in stone for it.

Edited September 28, 2014 by ---Kopaka Nuva---

[Vartemp]

Why would Takanuva have done the sacrifise? He hadn't done much other than defeat Teridax before the 2007 storyline. I think Matoro was fine, since he was the only one of the Toa Mahri who hadn't done anything really "heroic" yet, and I liked how that plot of how the Ignika chose him spanned over time.

[bonesiii]

Yeah, why Takanuva? He wasn't even there -- shouldn't the other Toa Mahri be top priority to be in a poll like this?

 

Still, we don't have a rule against asking arbitrary questions in S&T polls (currently :P) so I'll allow it...

 

And I voted Matoro.

 

 

Not just because that's how it happened, but I also sort of think of Takua/Takanuva as the closest thing canon Bionicle had to a main protagonist (other than Tahu), and I wouldn't want him to not be available throughout the story. Those two would probably be my lowest priorities for that sacrifice for that reason. (Admittedly that's an out-story reason and I usually try to avoid those, but in this case it makes sense. And if only in-story considerations are allowed, the question is really pointless; any good guy would have done it, so it would just depend on the specific circumstances. Although the Ignika only picks one, but I'm saying if Matoro hadn't been a better choice for some reason, like in an alternate timeline maybe.)

 

Except Ahkmou. But he doesn't count. But yeah.

 

 

But later the Ignika itself never needed a sacrifice unlike matoro to create it's phantoka body in 2008, even if it was greater power usage than minor empowerment of the mahri. The mask literally broke the rules that had been written in stone for it.

Er, no. The mask has always had the power to transform living things and that was seen happening countless times in-story. In that case it turned some seaweed into a body for itself. That's nothing like reviving somebody who has died!

Edited September 28, 2014 by bonesiii

[Wrinkledlion X]

I just null voted. Though Matoro was set up well in advance to be the sacrifice, I agree with CeeCee that Takanuva would have been way more heartbreaking. I've just never cared about Matoro in the same way I care about Takua. 

 

Did Takanuva really do anything important in 2008 to justify his presence? He had those alternate universe adventures, but they didn't impact the main story, and I know many people weren't big fans of them. Given how special Takanuva is, I always thought it was weird that he didn't have more to do... And consider: had he been the sacrifice, there could have had a tragic echo of Mask of Light, where Jala cradles Takanuva's body instead of the other way around.

 

On the other hand, maybe Takanuva shouldn't have been involved with multiple legendary masks, as that could feel very redundant. But I can see the arguments for both Matoro and Takanuva.

[Zidonaro]

I love both Takanuva andd Matoro(Takanuva is actually my favorite character). I don't want Taky to die nor didn't want Matoro. I have this headcanon where he came back to Metru Nui and was still translating Nuju. A Toa translating a Turaba because they were still super friends xD

 

But yeah, I don't know who should have made the sacrifice. Maybe Kongu because I hate his mahri set.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

 

But later the Ignika itself never needed a sacrifice unlike matoro to create it's phantoka body in 2008, even if it was greater power usage than minor empowerment of the mahri. The mask literally broke the rules that had been written in stone for it.

Er, no. The mask has always had the power to transform living things and that was seen happening countless times in-story. In that case it turned some seaweed into a body for itself. That's nothing like reviving somebody who has died!

How did it make a fully-functioning skyboard out of seaweed? That always confused me.

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

 

 

But later the Ignika itself never needed a sacrifice unlike matoro to create it's phantoka body in 2008, even if it was greater power usage than minor empowerment of the mahri. The mask literally broke the rules that had been written in stone for it.

Er, no. The mask has always had the power to transform living things and that was seen happening countless times in-story. In that case it turned some seaweed into a body for itself. That's nothing like reviving somebody who has died!

How did it make a fully-functioning skyboard out of seaweed? That always confused me.

 

Power of magical curses and a rule that anything Greg Farshtey says or writes somehow just works and becomes canon.

 

Heres a quote to sum up how he works

"Real life physics don't apply in BIONICLE, unless scientists discovered Protodermis yesterday and I wasn't told about it."

— Greg Farshtey

 

[bonesiii]

How did it make a fully-functioning skyboard out of seaweed? That always confused me.

It just did. How does Tahu make fire out of elemental energy? It's just the rules of how that power works.

 

Although, if my protodermis theories are right (either the old cyberclay one in which something more like computer programming controls the physics, or my newer advanced molecule one in which molecular arrangements do that), all it would take would be altering the material identity of the substance (from seaweed to metal, albeit now apparently living metal since Greg has recently limited the mask's power more), and granting the powers of flight and mental control (under either theory, by adding the instructions for those powers into the substance). But we don't really need to understand why this is possible to accept that in fictional physics it is.

[fishers64]

I vote Matoro. He's more of the self-sacrifice type IMO - Takanuva is that hero guy you always root for to win. Seeing him sacrifice himself would have been Out-of Character. 

 

Plus, he was elsewhere fighting scary Rahi on Metru Nui. It really would have been an anticlimatic end to the Mahri arc if Takanuva showed at the end just to take over the heroic sacrifice role. If he was there the whole time, he probably would have been clobbered by the Piraka and the Avohkii would have been lost to Karzanhi...it's just not a good thing. Out. 

How did it make a fully-functioning skyboard out of seaweed? That always confused me.

Because this is a world of biomechanical life, so creating mechanical stuff is under the purview of the Mask of Life. 

 

On the other hand, maybe Takanuva shouldn't have been involved with multiple legendary masks, as that could feel very redundant. But I can see the arguments for both Matoro and Takanuva.

Er, the Mask of Light isn't a legendary Mask. 

[Wrinkledlion X]

Well, close enough. It's the only mask with a movie named after it. 

 

Plus it's gold.