Okoto Geography

[bioniclepluslotr]

The layout of Okoto's regions kind of bug me cause it's pretty geographically in accurate to have multiple climates in pie slice shapes. Generally, climate changes by latitude. So here's how I think the regions could be laid out.

 

Ice: Okoto has a massive mountain in the center. This should be home to the ice tribe because the high altitude has a lot of snow and cold.

 

Stone: The stone tribe resides in a desert, which should be located to the east or west if the mountain because that's how deserts are formed. The mountain blocks rain clouds from reaching the other side, leaving it dry.

 

Jungle: This one really depends on Okoto's position on the planet. The jungles would be the side closest to the equator.

 

Water: Water tribes should reside on the coast all around Okoto, not a localized region.

 

Earth: Likewise, earth tribes live underground so it would make sense if they didn't have a specified region but lived under the entire island. Perhaps they have a surface spot near the fire region since volcanos make tunnels.

 

Fire: The official location of the fire tribe is actually ok since it appears to be a lava flow. Okoto appears to be an island formed by a volcano (because giant mountain) so there could be lava leakages underneath in exposed areas.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

I think the island could be okay if the wind blows from east to west, which would explain the high-moisture jungle, water and ice tribes on one side. The other side, however, is in the rain shadow and has the dry fire, stone and earth regions.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

It's a fantasy world and I think the artistic take on the island of Okoto is appropriate. No need to get super bugged by how unrealistic the island looks. xD

 

-NotS

Edited November 28, 2014 by Nidhiki of the Shadows

[bonesiii]

The layout of Okoto's regions kind of bug me cause it's pretty geographically in accurate to have multiple climates in pie slice shapes. Generally, climate changes by latitude.

This actually occurred to me too, but some issues:

 

1) The pie slice shape is probably a very good idea as it makes it seem unlikely there's the face of a giant robot underneath. Polling (by me ) has shown that at least on BZP people are ready for another primary driver of plot, as that one has been done. This is a good easily noticeable way to see the island's geography as based on something else, namely radiating mountain ridges from (probably) a volcano).

 

2) "Inaccurate" is the wrong word here, as the island's shape can only be accurate to itself, and "itself" is determined by the new story team.

 

3) A major factor in climate on a small island with mountainous features is wind direction. I theorized long ago for Mata Nui that a prevailing wind out of the southeast, plus elevation for Ko, would explain its geography pretty well. A similar explanation could work here, however:

 

4) You're assuming nothing "magical" explains the regions. Given the even stronger emphasis on elemental power here, it seems quite possible it does this time around. (This was actually a common theory even for Mata Nui, although it seems like something more like my idea is more likely as no elemental control explanation has been confirmed, and if it had been intended it probably would have been.)

 

 

Ice: Okoto has a massive mountain in the center. This should be home to the ice tribe because the high altitude has a lot of snow and cold.

This is the main one that doesn't work as easily for Okoto based on the image I've seen thus far, as it did for Mata Nui (Ko-Wahi was mountainous, and its Mount Ihu was a higher elevation than the volcanic Mangai). However (assuming no magical regions), if the Ice region is just above the min elevation, and heat in the volcano explains its lack of snow, it could still work for at least some of that area. Seems odd with the radiating branches above the main icy area, though.

 

Stone: The stone tribe resides in a desert, which should be located to the east or west if the mountain because that's how deserts are formed. The mountain blocks rain clouds from reaching the other side, leaving it dry.

Agreed, though it's not about east or west but prevailing wind direction (normally that is east or west on Earth... it need not be in a science fantasy world). But elemental power explanations could still work instead.

 

Jungle: This one really depends on Okoto's position on the planet. The jungles would be the side closest to the equator.

This depends on a lot of factors, mainly how big Okoto is. I suspect that as an island, it isn't big enough for this to work. Instead, the whole island should be near the equator, and the jungle side would just be closest to the prevailing wind, so gets the most rainfall to fuel plant growth. And/or geographic separation by those mountain ridges could mean that specimens of the jungle plants didn't happen to ever take root in the other regions.

 

Water: Water tribes should reside on the coast all around Okoto, not a localized region.

Uneccessary. It could have a lot of lakes, or rivers (if mountain shape leads primary waterfall to aim that way). Perhaps both Water and Jungle get a lot of rain but the Jungle has the plants that soak most of it up to fuel tall trees.

 

Earth: Likewise, earth tribes live underground so it would make sense if they didn't have a specified region but lived under the entire island. Perhaps they have a surface spot near the fire region since volcanos make tunnels.

It stands to reason that one region might have slightly or significantly more natural caves, or resources worth mining for, than others. Does seem statistically odd that this wouldn't happen to be under another region, but that's within plausible suspension of disbelief for a story IMO. Their choosing their own region could also be more socially caused than anything else; everybody else gets one, so they might want one too, and take what they can get in terms of what's there.

 

Agreed about Fire.

[-Windrider-]

Moving to S&T.

[fishers64]

I'm holding a running theory that the masks are hidden in the mountain ridges. Sounds like a good place to hide stuff, with lots of caves. 

 

That set up also brings to mind Kiina's secret lab - "these were the elements that were once plentiful on the surface of Bara Magna." The hidden elemental masks themselves could explain the unusual climate, if nothing else. 

[Tuuli]

I don't see why we didn't Re-get Mata-nui.

[Irrie]

I don't see why we didn't Re-get Mata-nui.

Because this isn't Bionicle Gen 1. 

 

I really wish that we can get to see what it's like inside the mountain ranges. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a situation like "What's on the surface of Onu-Wahi?" or "What's it like in the area between Ta and Ga-Wahi?" that happened with Mata Nui, because those unanswered questions drove me CRAZY.  

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

I don't see why we didn't Re-get Mata-nui.

Because this isn't Bionicle Gen 1. 

 

I really wish that we can get to see what it's like inside the mountain ranges. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a situation like "What's on the surface of Onu-Wahi?" or "What's it like in the area between Ta and Ga-Wahi?" that happened with Mata Nui, because those unanswered questions drove me CRAZY.  

 

But they made the shape the same as Mata Nui.

[bonesiii]

they made the shape the same as Mata Nui.

No they didn't:

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/a/a2/CGI_Mata_Nui_%28Island%29.jpg

http://biosector01.com/wiki/images/5/5c/Okoto.png

 

Ras, it seems like you missed this part of my post:

 

The pie slice shape is probably a very good idea as it makes it seem unlikely there's the face of a giant robot underneath.

That's why not Mata Nui. Notice the primary difference between the two shapes is that Mata Nui has a discernable eye and mouth and nose. Okoto has the lake region in roughly the same place, and has two points that stick out a little more than others at the north and south... and a central peak, but the similarity pretty much ends there (or the significant similarities). The appearance of a face is gone, and that makes sense here.

[Aanchir]

 

 

I don't see why we didn't Re-get Mata-nui.

Because this isn't Bionicle Gen 1. 

 

I really wish that we can get to see what it's like inside the mountain ranges. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a situation like "What's on the surface of Onu-Wahi?" or "What's it like in the area between Ta and Ga-Wahi?" that happened with Mata Nui, because those unanswered questions drove me CRAZY.

 

But they made the shape the same as Mata Nui.

 

That's like saying Africa is the same shape as Greenland. The similarities in shape are barely there, and in this case mostly just consist of there being a cape in the north and a cape in the south. Neither of Okoto's capes is anywhere near as sharp and pointy as Mata Nui's northern and southern capes, and Okoto also protrudes far further west than Mata Nui ever did.

 

I've seen some people compare Okoto's shape to the Windows logo, and in all honesty I think their argument was stronger than yours.

[bmwyeah]

I think the island of okoto is more of a continent: the ice region to the north, the jungle and desert near the equator and south of it: it could be a continent that extends from below the equator to near the north pole.

[The Meta Knight]

I don't see the face on Mata Nui. I know it's supposed to be there, but I've never been able to make it out...      

[bonesiii]

Meta, first, the whole shape is taller than wide, like a face (Okoto isn't). The left eye is the Ga-Wahi lake, in the same basic position as a humanoid eye. The Mangai is the mouth (looks like the round mouth of the 2001 sets and several masks), and Ihu is the nose. The right eye is covered up by ice, but yeah. This was reinforced by promo images showing half the island and half a face.

[fishers64]

Or, if you prefer...

 

 

There's our resident wise guy. 

 

As for Okoto, it looks like pie to me. The Great Baker must have cooked it up from the six elemental forces.

[The Meta Knight]

Or, if you prefer...

 

 

There's our resident wise guy. 

 

As for Okoto, it looks like pie to me. The Great Baker must have cooked it up from the six elemental forces.

I can see it now....

[Boidoh]

In TLR, during the Mata Nui awakening scene, you can see the eyes light up in the reef. That's one scene I really like in that movie.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

Or, if you prefer...

 

 

There's our resident wise guy. 

 

As for Okoto, it looks like pie to me. The Great Baker must have cooked it up from the six elemental forces.

 

He scream at own Mata-Nui. :V

 

(if i must add something relevant: in the CG Okoto, the mountain ranges are less prominent and awkward.)

[ToaDraco]

Yeah the geography bugs me too but I'll just pretend it has something to do with the mystical elemental energies emanating from the island and try to ignore it.

[user-402520536]

I think the island could be okay if the wind blows from east to west, which would explain the high-moisture jungle, water and ice tribes on one side. The other side, however, is in the rain shadow and has the dry fire, stone and earth regions.

Whoa, did you realize... that... Jungle + Water + Ice = Wairuha, and Fire + Stone + Earth = Akamai?

[Munty]

In what way does that island look like a giant robot's face? I'll tell you in what way... In NO way does that island look like a giant robotic face! We've just been TOLD that it does and then shown that (pretty cool) scene in the movie. I for one don't believe for a moment that the Great Spirit Robot was conceptualised before the franchise even launched, Makuta and Mata Nui were both just metaphorical spirits back then. Anyone remember 'you cannot defeat me for I am nothing'? Turns out he WAS something, he was a makuta (not even THE makuta!) He was also most definitely defeated (eventually) so what is established in the first year of a franchise is most certainly not the same as plot points that are devised over the following ten years...

 

To emphasise my point, here is an assortment of other ridiculous things that could have been under the island of Mata Nui without us knowing about it until we were 'told' that they'd been there the whole time...

 

Introducing now the Great Spirit Seahorse, Great Spirit Snail, and Great Spirit Rhino! Note how the upside-down face works just as well (if not better IMO) than the official one? It's all about how we perceive things in the end...

[Regitnui]

Munty, go look at the Faber Files. I don't have the patience to explain how you are wrong, but that's a good start.

[bonesiii]

In what way does that island look like a giant robot's face? I'll tell you in what way... In NO way does that island look like a giant robotic face!

Please see my previous post answering this:

 

http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/15975-okoto-geography/?p=789936

 

Also, it's that it looks like a face, not "giant robot's face" per se.

 

We've just been TOLD that it does

You're forgetting that it HAD to be somewhat subtle, or else it would give it away. But it also works because the resemblance is there, esp. to the small-circle-mouth 2001 masks. (And even esp. to Kopaka's with one eye covered by something not like the other side.)

 

I for one don't believe for a moment that the Great Spirit Robot was conceptualised before the franchise even launched

No, it was. As I said, this was the reason for those promo images showing half the island and half of various faces, from the start.

 

Makuta and Mata Nui were both just metaphorical spirits back then.

They still are -- their being called spirits are (largely) metaphors. But you seem to be forgetting that the giant robot was the secret behind a mystery. Your logic here is treating it like it can only either be revealed from the start blatantly, or else made up later. That's a false dichotomy and especially inapplicable here since it was intentionally a mystery story.

 

Anyone remember 'you cannot defeat me for I am nothing'? Turns out he WAS something, he was a makuta (not even THE makuta!)

Not sure where you're going with this, but two things here:

 

1) He was always something, and Kopaka called it right in that scene (that he was lying). But he was also (and remained) "nothing" in the metaphorical sense, which is probably largely how he meant it, in that he wasn't normal matter, he was destructive, he was hard to kill, etc.

 

2) Yes he was the Makuta -- the Makuta that they were dealing with then, or the Makuta of that land (in the sense that it was where the inhabitants of Metru Nui fled and he was the Makuta of Metru Nui). "The" does not only refer to species of one member only. If you only have one car available you will talk about going to "the" car -- doesn't mean it's the only car in existence anywhere or even the only car you might own.

 

He was also most definitely defeated (eventually) so what is established in the first year of a franchise is most certainly not the same as plot points that are devised over the following ten years...

Again not sure why you're off on this tangent now... While this generality (what comes after "so" here) is a true statement, it also mentions no specifics, so doesn't seem to have a point. It also isn't a conclusion following from what comes before "so" here... I could guess why you bring it up, but I don't put words in peoples' mouths.

 

The rest of your post switches back to the subject of Mata Nui's face, so I can only guess that you thought the Makuta tangent was relevant, but not sure how so. Anywho, that image is possible, but notice you also had to realign the island for most of them in a way not seen in those half-half promo images, or most depictions of the island. And it's just as logical as claiming that every single whodunnit story is just made up along the way, and coming up with alternate explanations for all the evidence using a wide array of anti-Ockham "patches". Not a rational thing to be doing.

Edited November 30, 2014 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

In what way does that island look like a giant robot's face? I'll tell you in what way... In NO way does that island look like a giant robotic face! We've just been TOLD that it does and then shown that (pretty cool) scene in the movie. I for one don't believe for a moment that the Great Spirit Robot was conceptualised before the franchise even launched, Makuta and Mata Nui were both just metaphorical spirits back then.

Actually, that's been confirmed, both by Greg Farshtey writer of Bionicle and Christian Faber, lead artist for the thing. They led us to believe that they were metaphorical spirits, all while hinting at the truth. 

Can I say that these pictures are hilarious, though? (Also, yeah, I noticed the upside-down face and thought that was the right one for years before being corrected.)

 

Also please note that, unlike the official one I drew above, all of these require turning the island in some way. That's not a very good indicator of the artist's intent out of the drawing.

Edited November 30, 2014 by fishers64

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

The Mata Nui Island had a desert and icy mountains RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

 

Geography really isn't a problem in the world of Bionicle, where the story of the Toa Mata and Toa Metru was about the six elements coming together, anyway.

[The Meta Knight]

 

You should use this (a scaled-down version) as your signature. XD    

The Mata Nui Island had a desert and icy mountains RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

 

Geography really isn't a problem in the world of Bionicle, where the story of the Toa Mata and Toa Metru was about the six elements coming together, anyway.

 

Deserts and snowy mountains can be right next to each other. I do agree with you in that it doesn't really matter, though.

[Aanchir]

In what way does that island look like a giant robot's face? I'll tell you in what way... In NO way does that island look like a giant robotic face!

It was designed to look like a face. Then they made it subtler by necesssity. But the design intent was still there.

 

They also named pretty much every natural landmark for the part of the face it corresponded to. Naho=eye socket, Ihu=nose, Mangai=mouth, Kauae=chin/beard, etc.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Aanchir

[Munty]

Munty, go look at the Faber Files. I don't have the patience to explain how you are wrong, but that's a good start.

 

If you can't be bothered to contribute to the current discussion, why post at all? I checked that website (because I CAN be bothered) but found nothing useful until Aanchir linked directly to the relevant information later...

 

You're forgetting that it HAD to be somewhat subtle, or else it would give it away. But it also works because the resemblance is there, esp. to the small-circle-mouth 2001 masks. (And even esp. to Kopaka's with one eye covered by something not like the other side.)

 

I for one don't believe for a moment that the Great Spirit Robot was conceptualised before the franchise even launched

No, it was. As I said, this was the reason for those promo images showing half the island and half of various faces, from the start.

 

 Anywho, that image is possible, but notice you also had to realign the island for most of them in a way not seen in those half-half promo images, or most depictions of the island. And it's just as logical as claiming that every single whodunnit story is just made up along the way, and coming up with alternate explanations for all the evidence using a wide array of anti-Ockham "patches". Not a rational thing to be doing.

 

Cut much of this out but left most important bits I think! First off, I know it should be subtle and mysterious and in that sense they did a great job of it. If they had the GSR storyline in place from day one that is... Of course perhaps the fact they concealed this mystery so well is why I don't believe it to be pre-conceived. The other alternative however is that it's so well concealed is because it wasn't initially in place at all...

 

EDIT : Is THIS the picture you mean?

 

There couldn't be another reason for showing half a mask and half the island? (I actually don't even remember these pics!) What about the bohrok posters with half a Hau and half a Krana? Was there a hidden meaning there because I'd question both those assumptions. I think the Toa were saviours of Mata Nui so that could be an eplanation. You could also argue that they were bound to the island on an elemental level (because remember my whole point here is that they probably didn't have the whole 10 year story planned out from the start!) Besides, the GSR didn't wear a mask. Ever... If the pic above (which I found just writing this bit!) is the one you mean then I can buy that it could be intentional for the gulf to form one eye in contrast to the other one in the Hau but it doesn't all line up very well, especially the 'mouth' that you're pinning a lot of emphasis on. Let's also remember that the GSR did NOT have a face like a Mata head when he was finally shown to us, it was essentially completely flat. So there would be no mountainous features necessary to conceal his nose or mata-like mouth. IF that had been the entire reasoning behind the design of the Mata Nui island, doesn't it seem really strange to then turn around and create the GSR in such a way that renders all those landmarks completely superfluous?

 

All I'm suggesting is that the decision to make Mata Nui a face was not necessarily the very first thing they decided and the first year or two (at least) of the range was produced without this in mind. After all, why would anyone come up with such a convoluted story for a brand new line when they don't even know how successful it will be? Especially hen they don't intend to actually USE that part of the story for several years. And remember, just because the writer and artist have said 'we planned it that way from the beginning' (as an unquoted poster mentioned above) doesn't necessarily make it true. I know Greg is our King of Canon but eve He is not immune to fibbing!

 

It was designed to look like a face. Then they made it subtler by necesssity. But the design intent was still there.

They also named pretty much every natural landmark for the part of the face it corresponded to. Naho=eye socket, Ihu=nose, Mangai=mouth, Kauae=chin/beard, etc.

 

This response actually interests me most... Where did that first picture come from? And when? The blurb suggests it's the earliest official drawing, can that be confirmed? I ask partly because I've never seen this before! I agree it looks a lot more like the mata head we end up with but still maintain my 'just because it can be interpreted as something doesn't mean it IS something argument'

 

The names are very interesting though, if anything will convince me the whole thing was preconceived it could be those. In what language do those names mean those words? And more importantly WHEN were those names first mentioned in the story? 

 

My point throughout all of this is not that it doesn't LOOK like a face and certainly not that there isn't a face underneath it because we know there is... My point is that I'm not convinced the initial thought they had when developing the Bionicle brand was "what we need is a giant robot who got sick, crashed on the broken planet he was built on then created an island on his face and ejected the population of his brain. But noone knows anything about it and we won't mention it for at least 5 years..." It's quite easy to conceive a story like the GSR later on and simply retcon it (not even retconning since nothing changes. They just introduce new information that corroborates the new story, very simple!)

 

I'm seriously interested in those names though. If they were mentioned right at release (and I think they may have been in some of the early comics) and they translate to what you say they do (preferably all in the same language, was it the Maori or something?) then I'd certainly give this thing a whole lot more credibility! If however it's just that the mountain means nose, that's not SO compelling, though it is still an odd word to use in naming a mountain if it has no story significance sooo... 

 

Please someone cite these references, I'm not going to google them as I will soon be asleep! Night folks!

[Aanchir]

This response actually interests me most... Where did that first picture come from? And when? The blurb suggests it's the earliest official drawing, can that be confirmed? I ask partly because I've never seen this before! I agree it looks a lot more like the mata head we end up with but still maintain my 'just because it can be interpreted as something doesn't mean it IS something argument'

The first image is concept art created by Christian Faber, the art director who played a leading role in developing the BIONICLE story from some of the earliest stages of its development (and who was a member of the story team from beginning to end). FaberFiles is his personal blog. The image is "official" in the sense that it was created as part of the development process for the BIONICLE theme, though not in the sense that it's the final look of the island. Think of it as a prototype for the final design. Note that it is dated 1999. Summer 1999 was when Christian Faber first became involved in the theme's development (which had started slightly earlier, well before the BIONICLE name was settled on).

 

Here's another early piece of concept art dating from 1999, during the early stages of the theme's development. Here's a logo featuring the face-shaped island from when the team was still testing out different names for the theme (we're all very grateful they didn't settle on "Doo Heads"). And here's an unused 2002 story concept developed in late 2000 but ultimately not used, and an earlier image from 1999 related to that same concept of a trio of islands (Mata Nui's fingers) emerging to the east of Mata Nui. In this post, an early design for a Toa canister, Faber mentions the three-finger island for the first time and confirms that the idea of the giant robot was known from as early as 1999.

 

The names are very interesting though, if anything will convince me the whole thing was preconceived it could be those. In what language do those names mean those words? And more importantly WHEN were those names first mentioned in the story?

All of those place names were first mentioned in 2001 in some of our earliest maps of the island. I had to do a lot of research to find all those meanings! Here's the blog entry where I first shared what I had found. I made a few errors in my last post.

 

My point throughout all of this is not that it doesn't LOOK like a face and certainly not that there isn't a face underneath it because we know there is... My point is that I'm not convinced the initial thought they had when developing the Bionicle brand was "what we need is a giant robot who got sick, crashed on the broken planet he was built on then created an island on his face and ejected the population of his brain. But noone knows anything about it and we won't mention it for at least 5 years..." It's quite easy to conceive a story like the GSR later on and simply retcon it (not even retconning since nothing changes. They just introduce new information that corroborates the new story, very simple!)

It's been known for years that the idea of Mata Nui covering the Great Spirit's face was planned from the start. I'm not sure why it's such a surprise to you — maybe you were away from the community for a while? Anyway, pages 153 and 154 of the recent book "Brick by Brick" (a book about the LEGO Group's financial recovery around a decade ago, for which Christian Faber was interviewed extensively) goes into detail about how he came up with the concept. You can read the pages in their entirety here, but here's the key quote:

 

"For Faber, the inspiration for this new, illustrated narrative came from his recently diagnosed brain tumor. The tumor was benign, but it would spread if he didn't take his daily injection of medication. Reflecting on the illness that fired his imagination, Faber 'had the thought that when I took these injections, I was sending a little group of soldiers into my body, fighting on my behalf to rebuild my system. Then it all just came together.'

 

"Faber imagined the toy canisters as vials of medicine drifting toward the head of a giant, comatose robot that was infected with a virus. The medicine's active ingredient was an army of nano-size creatures that arrived in pill-shaped capsules, entered the titan's body, and fought to liberate it from the virus. The story played out in a microscopic world, but for its 'part-organic, part-machine' inhabitants, the scale was sweepingly vast. Faber provided visual depictions of the island and its inhabitants and also suggested to his colleagues at LEGO a name for the new toy: Bionicle, a combination of the words biological and chronicle."

 

So yeah, the Mata Nui robot was the "big story engine" from near the very beginning of BIONICLE's development. Not the very beginning, mind you. Christian Faber only became involved when LEGO pitched the "Voodoo Heads" line they were developing to Advance, the ad agency where Christian Faber has been working for 25 years.

 

Now, not EVERY detail of the story was planned out as early as 1999. The writers didn't always know that they'd be waiting seven or eight years for the "big story engine" to be publicly revealed. Greg has mentioned that at one point, the LEGO Group was prepared to awaken Mata Nui as the conclusion of the 2003 storyline. But the plans for the story evolved over time, in response to the theme's sales and other influences.

[bonesiii]

If you can't be bothered to contribute to the current discussion, why post at all? I checked that website (because I CAN be bothered) but found nothing useful until Aanchir linked directly to the relevant information later...

Munty, please do not belittle people for contributing only a little instead of fully. That's perfectly within their rights, and he did contribute by pointing you in the direction of where to go. (Also, this is kinda common knowledge. )

 

Cut much of this out but left most important bits I think! First off, I know it should be subtle and mysterious and in that sense they did a great job of it. If they had the GSR storyline in place from day one that is

Again, they did. It's not debatable. Anywho, glad you get it now. *reads on to find out why the rest of the post needs to be so long... *

 

Your image doesn't seem to be working. Again, I'm talking about the various promo images showing the island half on one side (the left), and half a face on the right. There were a few versions. You'll know 'em if you see 'em. (I presume that you need to ask means you weren't following Bionicle at the time or something? Anybody who was would know what I meant instantly. But that's okay of course!) [update after reading on a bit: Yes, there was a Bohrok-related one too.]

 

There couldn't be another reason for showing half a mask and half the island?

Of course there could, or else it wouldn't be a good clue, would it? It would just be blatant proof and a dead giveaway. Have you ever written mystery stories and had a number of readers follow them? I have -- this is a lesson you learn pretty early (although I didn't need to learn it the hard way as for some reason or another I knew it already, or had already figured it out... I forget.) You always need to use things that could be interpreted a number of different ways. But you use them because of the secret behind the mystery.

 

Besides, the GSR didn't wear a mask.

Yes it did -- the camouflage island itself. But that's not the point -- the point is that the island (whether you want to think of it as a mask or an extension-face) had a shape based on a face.

 

Let's also remember that the GSR did NOT have a face like a Mata head when he was finally shown to us

Actually yeah, it is strikingly similar to the Mata head.

 

So there would be no mountainous features necessary to conceal his nose or mata-like mouth.

You're overthinking it here. The main purpose of the other facial features besides the lake-eye is as clues to fans. I get the sense that for some strange reason you are trying to rescue an already disproven hypothesis that it wasn't based on a face, but that's fact (and why would you want to?).

 

I had to skim some of your huge paragraphs after this. Not sure why we're still talking about this... but two other things:

 

All I'm suggesting is that the decision to make Mata Nui a face was not necessarily the very first thing they decided

Who said anything about whether it was the very first concept or not? That's not relevant. I'm sure they went through a number of ideas, and you can read about some of it at Faber's blog. It really would be best to stop typing posts here and go read through everything there before you continue (if you see the need to continue at all ) here. He describes most of the process pretty clearly.

 

And remember, just because the writer and artist have said 'we planned it that way from the beginning' (as an unquoted poster mentioned above) doesn't necessarily make it true. I know Greg is our King of Canon but eve He is not immune to fibbing!

No offense, but this seems like a rather desperate attempt to rescue that already-disproven idea, and again I can't see why you would want to. But no, I have never seen Greg be found lying, and it would be rather pointless to do that as it would ruin his credibility beyond that. Besides, it makes no sense to focus on Greg here. He was not the one that originated Bionicle -- not sure if you're buying into that myth or what. All of them would have had to conspire later and make up fake concept art and everything... nothing about their behavior reads that way in the slightest (and what would be the point anyways?).

 

Outta time for now, sorry.

[fishers64]

Your image doesn't seem to be working. Again, I'm talking about the various promo images showing the island half on one side (the left), and half a face on the right. There were a few versions. You'll know 'em if you see 'em. (I presume that you need to ask means you weren't following Bionicle at the time or something? Anybody who was would know what I meant instantly. But that's okay of course!) 

 

Yarr, this. Also cool because it foreshadows the 2008 twist, but that's neither here nor there...

[Regitnui]

 

 

Munty, go look at the Faber Files. I don't have the patience to explain how you are wrong, but that's a good start.

If you can't be bothered to contribute to the current discussion, why post at all? I checked that website (because I CAN be bothered) but found nothing useful until Aanchir linked directly to the relevant information later...

Well, pardon me for preferring to sleep instead of getting all the information together and dropping it on your metaphorical desk like a disgruntled student. In any case, I knew the others would link to more specific things, but the Faber Files as a whole is a mine of evidence. It's like someone asking what BIONICLE was; I'd say "check BS01", and then someone would come along later and give you three articles from BS01 to read. We both helped equally.

 

Lastly, don't get snotty just because you've been proven wrong. Taking correction with grace is a sign of maturity.

[Munty]

Thanks Bonesiii and again Aanchir for those great links. I have no idea how this is true (and I almost don't want to admit it for it makes me look like a seriously part time fan!) but I had never heard of Christian Faber until reading these last few posts! I think I've pretty much always known who Greg is but then I guess maybe the story is harder to miss than the art behind it sometimes. 

 

I was away from Bionicle in the mid-late run and only found the active community (here!) right near the end when I started collecting again so there are clearly things I could have missed. This is certainly the first time I've ever seen such old source material and I really appreciate the eye-openers that they are. I STILL find it seriously hard to comprehend that they were writing a story so many years in advance but the quote from Faber regarding his illness goes a long way to explain how they came up with such a far-fetched backstory.

 

I see no more reason to debate this any further, hard to swallow though it may be! I DO however still think the island looks very little like a face (which was my original point after all!) And yes I do understand that it's for the sake of subtlety but personally I think the Great Spirit Rhino has a great deal of potential too... After all, a 40 million foot tall robot is ridiculous. An 8 million foot long Rhino though? Now there's something we can all get behind!

[NickonAquaMagna]

If nothing else, I will say Okoto is BEAUTIFUL in the CG rendering of it.... but yeah, it's just the Slizer planet all over again. An island with the geography described in the opening post sounds quite interesting. Maybe someday, I'll have to make an island based on that.

[Akavakaku]

Okoto's geography wouldn't even be all that strange if it were completely natural in origin. Widespread glaciation at some point in the past could have produced the shape, and the moister regions being on the east side is consistent with a prevailing wind from the east, just like we see in Earth's tropics. The ice region might just be a plateau, which would explain its coldness.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Akavakaku