Click Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 No, I'm thinking of Voporak. Have you even looked at half of these characters recently? How many arms do you see? Also, his head more closely resembles Roodaka's than it does Sidorak's. Mutation that doesn't hardly resemble the species it came from. Try again. What's the excuse this time? Same shoulder armor?I've been searching images of every character we discuss, and apparently I'm just not seeing things your way. Every other image I saw looked like he had three arms. His fourth was always folded close to the body. I apologize if I made an error. Yes, the head is different, but the construction is very close. They use similar pieces throughout the body, such as the shoulders and legs. Those were the similarities I was referring to. This still doesn't prove that he had your "horns" or that they are a species trait. I'm afraid nothing will. So there is no way to contend that Hydraxon must have those to be an Upper Class Steltan. I am fully aware that Trinuma's species having horns is canon. I am fully aware that Hydraxon does not have horns. Have you bothered to read anything I've written? >Hydraxon created by GBs>Hydraxon joins the Hand>MN activated>MN uses the creations of the GBs as templates to create new species>Uses Hydraxon as the basis of Trinuma's race, and adds horns How much clearer does that have to be? I am not saying the horns are non-canon. I haven't once suggested that. Yes, but why? Why on earth would you make it so complicated just to say they are the same species? Why would Mata Nui add horns to a perfectly good template when he was too lazy to make different members of a species unique? If you don't like Hydraxon as a Steltan, there are still plenty of other options that don't have large roadblocks like the lack of the definitive horns. 1 Quote ~ Corpus Rahkshi: Fang | Hoto | Tube | Tear | Canvas | Garrotte | Reda BZPRPG: Azusai | Mitsuri The Scarabax Library | Flickr | Deviantart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 1st Shadow Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) No, I'm thinking of Voporak. Have you even looked at half of these characters recently? How many arms do you see? Also, his head more closely resembles Roodaka's than it does Sidorak's. Mutation that doesn't hardly resemble the species it came from. Try again. What's the excuse this time? Same shoulder armor?I've been searching images of every character we discuss, and apparently I'm just not seeing things your way. Every other image I saw looked like he had three arms. His fourth was always folded close to the body. I apologize if I made an error. Yes, the head is different, but the construction is very close. They use similar pieces throughout the body, such as the shoulders and legs. Those were the similarities I was referring to. Um, what? Similar build? But looks almost exactly like Roodaka with a weird crest on the head? Similar parts usage? Roodaka, Nidhiki, Krekka, and Keetongu all use the same style of shoulders as Sidorak and Voporak. So, all this says is that Voporak kept some traits from his pre-mutated form. Stop confusing this--it isn't complicated. Sidorak's species > Voporak mutated >Voporak no longer looks exactly like one of his race. If head-build is what you're going off of, then Brutaka, Axonn, Maxilos, and a bunch of others must be Toa, since their heads are all built the same. This is not a plausible argument. This still doesn't prove that he had your "horns" or that they are a species trait. I'm afraid nothing will. So there is no way to contend that Hydraxon must have those to be an Upper Class Steltan. Doesn't prove he didn't, either. All you're seeing is the mutated form. But the Mutated form does have that crest--possibly what the horns transformed into? Yes, but why? Why on earth would you make it so complicated just to say they are the same species? Why would Mata Nui add horns to a perfectly good template when he was too lazy to make different members of a species unique? If you don't like Hydraxon as a Steltan, there are still plenty of other options that don't have large roadblocks like the lack of the definitive horns. Complicated? You loved the prototype idea before it was used against Hydraxon's placement. Not complicated at all. Or, perhaps Hydraxon was already decorated in weapons. How'd MN get the blueprint for these races? Scanning pre-existing beings? If he scanned a back-bladed-Hydraxon, might he have confused them for horns? It's not complicated at all--these are very simple solutions. I don't like Hydraxon or Brutaka as Steltians. There aren't enough similarities to have made that connection. Edited July 2, 2015 by T1Shadow: The Artisan Quote ~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow ~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to NickonAquaMagna~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkshi Lalonde Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm confused here, what are the similarities between hydraxon and trinuma that aren't there between hydraxon and _insert_tall_guy here_? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 If head-build is what you're going off of, then Brutaka, Axonn, Maxilos, and a bunch of others must be Toa, since their heads are all built the same. This is not a plausible argument.I was actually saying the exact opposite. The head doesn't look exactly like Sidorak, and that's fine. Doesn't prove he didn't, either. All you're seeing is the mutated form. But the Mutated form does have that crest--possibly what the horns transformed into?It's obvious we're not getting anywhere with this kind of assumption. Complicated? You loved the prototype idea before it was used against Hydraxon's placement. Not complicated at all. Or, perhaps Hydraxon was already decorated in weapons. How'd MN get the blueprint for these races? Scanning pre-existing beings? If he scanned a back-bladed-Hydraxon, might he have confused them for horns? It's not complicated at all--these are very simple solutions. I don't like Hydraxon or Brutaka as Steltians. There aren't enough similarities to have made that connection. I still like the idea. I just don't see why Trinuma's species would be the one that would come out of that. You're just making up excuses for why it would work when another species lacking horns would be far more logical. You've said that you like the other connections I made in this topic and yet none of them are as perfect as you want them to be. Look at Roodaka and Conjurer. Basic body structure and the head piece are the same, but other than that, nothing. Dweller, Vengeance, and Vanisher just share wings and horns. Primal and Seeker both have four legs. Brutaka is almost exactly the same height as Sidorak, they have very similar proportions, and they use the same headpiece. These are all things you implied throughout this discussion beings of the same species should have. Brutaka's bio would also fit nicely on Stelt, much better than if he happened to be a Makuta Prototype. And I think we've gone over Hydraxon enough, don't you? 1 Quote ~ Corpus Rahkshi: Fang | Hoto | Tube | Tear | Canvas | Garrotte | Reda BZPRPG: Azusai | Mitsuri The Scarabax Library | Flickr | Deviantart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 1st Shadow Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I still like the idea. I just don't see why Trinuma's species would be the one that would come out of that. You're just making up excuses for why it would work when another species lacking horns would be far more logical. You've said that you like the other connections I made in this topic and yet none of them are as perfect as you want them to be. Look at Roodaka and Conjurer. Basic body structure and the head piece are the same, but other than that, nothing. Dweller, Vengeance, and Vanisher just share wings and horns. Primal and Seeker both have four legs. Brutaka is almost exactly the same height as Sidorak, they have very similar proportions, and they use the same headpiece. These are all things you implied throughout this discussion beings of the same species should have. Brutaka's bio would also fit nicely on Stelt, much better than if he happened to be a Makuta Prototype. And I think we've gone over Hydraxon enough, don't you? I can see it in Roodaka and Conjurer. We've never seen a male Vortixx. Roodaka has a very feminine build--males being somewhat different in appearance is reasonable. Dark Hunters, in most cases, are mutants. Read Primal's bio--it says he refused the modifications offered when he joined the Hunters. If these modifications are regular for new recruits, then the reason for their differences may have been that Seeker accepted the offer while his fellow didn't. See? Most of your other examples work, according to their backstories. Quote ~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow ~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to NickonAquaMagna~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Brutaka was a member of the Brotherhood of Makuta. Hydraxon was a member of the Hand of Artakha. Both were members of the Order of Mata Nui. We know at least one of those organizations modifies their members. Quote ~ Corpus Rahkshi: Fang | Hoto | Tube | Tear | Canvas | Garrotte | Reda BZPRPG: Azusai | Mitsuri The Scarabax Library | Flickr | Deviantart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Rahkmaninoff Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm just going to throw my thoughts on Sidorak's tubing in here since it seems to be relevant in his grouping (or not) with Brutaka and Hydraxon; rather than horns, I always thought they looked like kingly sideburns. Maybe Brutaka and Hydraxon just shave, and he doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 1st Shadow Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Brutaka was a member of the Brotherhood of Makuta. Hydraxon was a member of the Hand of Artakha. Both were members of the Order of Mata Nui. We know at least one of those organizations modifies their members.What kind of modification, though? More powers? Physical? Minor implants that allow the organization to track their every move? Jerbraz's description of the modification the Order did to him was a power-up of some kind, which had a nasty side-effect of turning him invisible. Doesn't necessarily mean that all "modifications" change appearance. We don't see enough of them to know for sure. But, on the note, you could be right. Quote ~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow ~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to NickonAquaMagna~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spyder Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Way I see it is that given the biomechanical nature of the Matoran Universe inhabitants, many beings could have simply crafted themselves differently over the years. Maybe added a few limbs or tubing, bulked up their frame as they saw fit, or even given themselves traits their original species never had. It could even be that there are tons of 'unique' primordial beings. Mata Nui started creating different races after he ran things for a while. Perhaps he just doodled for a while, making different beings until he found a design he liked, and made that particular model into an entire race. 4 Quote Hi there. I'm the creature formerly known as spyder ryder. I've returned from the darkest realms of the internet. Have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockmanCapulet Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Way I see it is that given the biomechanical nature of the Matoran Universe inhabitants, many beings could have simply crafted themselves differently over the years. Maybe added a few limbs or tubing, bulked up their frame as they saw fit, or even given themselves traits their original species never had. It could even be that there are tons of 'unique' primordial beings. Mata Nui started creating different races after he ran things for a while. Perhaps he just doodled for a while, making different beings until he found a design he liked, and made that particular model into an entire race.I like this mentality, because it a) makes a lot of sense, b) allows associating of sorta-similar figures into a species (I like to think Sidorak, Hydraxon, and Trinuma are all Steltians; Hydraxon is a proto-Steltian who wears those neck-blades to emulate horns, and Sidorak's tubes are his horns), and c) lets me headcanon Mata Nui as an artsy-fartsy dweeb. :3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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