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New Kapura Evidence

Teleportation think not

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36 replies to this topic

#1 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted May 10 2013 - 01:53 PM

So after playing the MNOLG on Templar's website to see what some Matoran say now, I noticed something Kapura says:Posted Image

 

So, to anyone that thinks he teleports, this is good evidence to suggest that he doesn't, just goes really fast by moving slow (that's a contradiction). How he does it is still a mystery, however.


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#2 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted May 10 2013 - 02:02 PM

I'm pretty sure what he meant by "moving fast by moving slow" thing is just to imply that he could travel quite far by moving slow. As in the Tortoise and the Hare. And no, why would anyone say that he teleports? That's just a part of the April Fools thing, and seems highly unlikely. But I see some logic in the quote. It means that he won't cross a bridgeless canyon fast or slow, because it has no bridge for him to cross. Then Tamaru comes with this vine-swinging Tarzan idea.
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#3 Offline archivist_66

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Posted May 10 2013 - 02:15 PM

That's a good find, but we haven't learnt anything new...


Edited by archivist_66, May 10 2013 - 02:17 PM.

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#4 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 10 2013 - 02:36 PM

Is teleportation, in the Bionicle Universe, affected by gravity? You would think it would have to be, other wise you could randomly transport into space...


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#5 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted May 10 2013 - 02:40 PM

Is teleportation, in the Bionicle Universe, affected by gravity? You would think it would have to be, other wise you could randomly transport into space...

I don't think so. Iruni teleported from Xia to a ship off the coast and didn't get wet. Makuta teleported the Toa to the surface of Mata Nui at the end of MNOLG (probably not entirely canon, though). Those are the only examples I can think off the top of my head.


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#6 Offline Taipu1

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Posted May 10 2013 - 03:03 PM

I'm pretty sure what he meant by "moving fast by moving slow" thing is just to imply that he could travel quite far by moving slow. As in the Tortoise and the Hare. And no, why would anyone say that he teleports? That's just a part of the April Fools thing, and seems highly unlikely. But I see some logic in the quote. It means that he won't cross a bridgeless canyon fast or slow, because it has no bridge for him to cross. Then Tamaru comes with this vine-swinging Tarzan idea.

 

Actually, a lot of people think he teleport's, and from long before the April fools thing.  This is good evidence to suggest he doesn't though. 

 

As for teleportation being affected by gravity, definitely not.  If that were the case, you could only teleport the distance you can travel in the time it takes you to fall your own height, then you'd end up underground.  If teleportation as a concept ever was affected by gravity, it would become far less useful, and incredibly difficult to use, because you'd always have to teleport somewhere lower than where you were, or else jump just before doing it. 


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#7 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 10 2013 - 03:09 PM

Very well then. Super-speed it likely is. Although that saying may be purely poetic.


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#8 Offline Canis Lycaon

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Posted May 10 2013 - 03:31 PM

People think he teleports because the original MNOG had him doing so because Templar didn't know how to show 'I move fast by moving slow.'


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#9 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 10 2013 - 04:17 PM

I'm pretty sure what he meant by "moving fast by moving slow" thing is just to imply that he could travel quite far by moving slow. As in the Tortoise and the Hare.

 

Travelling far isn't the same as travelling fast.

 

And Kapura must be able to travel fast, because he can reach Ko-Koro and Po-Koro before Takua can.


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#10 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 10 2013 - 10:27 PM

Are you saying Templar has changed the MNOG for this version? Since that seems to be the case, do we know if this has anything to do with canon? Approved by story team / Greg? And let's keep in mind the original MNOG wasn't approved either, although it did get the "canon unless contradicted by other canon" nod later. But as far as I know, we never knew whether any of the Kapura stuff was approved canon or whether it was just something we consider canon only because it hasn't been contradicted elsewhere.

 

So in other words, there's no clear winner between the two, but personally I would rather go with the portrayal that was at least given some kind of canon nod and that we all know and love, versus something that Templar may have just done on their own now.

 

Of course, that still leaves it as a total mystery.

 

But assuming it was teleportation of some kind, he also said that he had to focus intently on where he was headed, methinks, implying he had to be familiar with it. He wouldn't have been familiar, per se, with the opposite side of that chasm, so this quote may be entirely irrelevant.

 

 

By the way, what is this "April Fools thing"? I don't recall anything that rings a bell to that off the top of my head...


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#11 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 10 2013 - 11:20 PM

This is the April Fool's thing. Some clowns at BS01 cooked up some fake Greg answers for April fools. 


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#12 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 11 2013 - 05:50 AM

Are you saying Templar has changed the MNOG for this version?

 

I just played the 2006 version, and at the destroyed bridge Kapura's speech box is blank.

 

Since that seems to be the case, do we know if this has anything to do with canon? Approved by story team / Greg? And let's keep in mind the original MNOG wasn't approved either, although it did get the "canon unless contradicted by other canon" nod later. But as far as I know, we never knew whether any of the Kapura stuff was approved canon or whether it was just something we consider canon only because it hasn't been contradicted elsewhere.

 

Isn't this 'canon' business getting a little bit pedantic? Seems like every piece of media has to be dissected in detail to decide whether it 'fits' or not.


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#13 Offline ToaKaprua1324

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Posted May 11 2013 - 06:41 AM

The whole point of this forum is to discuss canon.  If you find it frustrating, perhaps you should try the creative outlet or something instead.


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#14 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 11 2013 - 06:49 AM

The whole point of this forum is to discuss canon.  If you find it frustrating, perhaps you should try the creative outlet or something instead.

 

Storyline & Theories description: "Discuss the Bionicle universe's lore and story."

 

I don't see anything about canon there.


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#15 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 11 2013 - 08:49 AM

We can discuss any story put out by Bionicle including non-canon but the focus is indeed on the official or canon story, as mentioned in the "allowed topics" section. And why shouldn't we be curious which is which? :P Anyways, I brought it up because he titled this with the word 'evidence', implying (apparently?)  that he thought this might be evidence for the actual canon answer, if one exists. And my point is that that implied reasoning doesn't seem to hold up. :)

 

Of course, if that speech box was blank, maybe they had a script for it all along and this was part of it. Anywho, it need not deny the teleportation, so probably irrelevant either way.

 

And as far as what's allowed in non-canon goes, keep in mind that fans can imagine or ignore whatever they want anyways. Fan fiction could have Kapura teleporting or freezing time and inching along like a snail. :P So without focusing the discussion on canon or at least how this quote got in there, there's little to discuss.


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#16 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 11 2013 - 09:56 AM

Of course, if that speech box was blank, maybe they had a script for it all along and this was part of it.

 

Like I said, it's blank in the 2006 version. I don't know if that was the case in the original version available in 01-03(ish). Whether they had something written for it in 2001 and forgot to include it, or forgot to write anything for it in the first place and only wrote that now for this most recent release, is impossible to know.

 

But assuming it was teleportation of some kind, he also said that he had to focus intently on where he was headed, methinks, implying he had to be familiar with it. He wouldn't have been familiar, per se, with the opposite side of that chasm, so this quote may be entirely irrelevant.

 

Would he have been familiar with Po-Koro and Ko-Koro? Seeing as he beats Takua to both of them.


Edited by Sir Kohran, May 11 2013 - 09:57 AM.

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#17 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 11 2013 - 12:39 PM

Well, he'd had a thousand years to travel to all the villages by normal means if he had some reason to, who knows?


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#18 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 11 2013 - 06:59 PM

Well, he'd had a thousand years to travel to all the villages by normal means if he had some reason to, who knows?

 

I doubt it. In the Charred Jungle, he says, "The island has many places to visit. I want to see all of them. But the others do not like to travel", which indicates he was more or less stuck in Ta-Koro.

 

And more generally, a lot of MNOLG dialogue suggests travel between the villages was very dangerous and therefore limited. Maku got in trouble for leaving Ga-Koro even briefly, trade between Onu-Koro and Le-Koro was almost impossible on land or sea, and Taipu had apparently never visited Le-Wahi until the tunnel there was finished.


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#19 Offline Tazakk

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Posted May 11 2013 - 07:54 PM

I would just like to throw in that this line from Kapura (and the other ones from him and a few other Tohunga) on the journey to the Kini-Nui were apparently in the original, online version of the game. Chronicler06 recalls them here. Although one could argue he is being dishonest, I can't see a reason for him to be so, and what's more this version of the game is likely a predecessor to the 2006 version - so it can be assumed that the text was lost somehow when LEGO went through and edited out the word 'Tohunga' for the 2006 release.


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#20 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 11 2013 - 08:28 PM

I would just like to throw in that this line from Kapura (and the other ones from him and a few other Tohunga) on the journey to the Kini-Nui were apparently in the original, online version of the game. Chronicler06 recalls them here. Although one could argue he is being dishonest, I can't see a reason for him to be so, and what's more this version of the game is likely a predecessor to the 2006 version - so it can be assumed that the text was lost somehow when LEGO went through and edited out the word 'Tohunga' for the 2006 release.

 

Interesting. Though I can't imagine how the dialogue was lost, that's probably the true story.


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#21 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 11 2013 - 08:42 PM

Here's the exact quote

 

One issue I had with the latter version was that on the way to Kini-Nui, some of the Matoran in the Chronicler's Company would sometimes have blank text boxes. For example, I remember when I first played this game back in 2003 that Tamaru actually said something before swinging across that canyon, instead of that blank text box we see in the offline version. Now that Templar has released the original version, I'm quite happy to finally see what's been missing for a while.

 

:shrugs: Probably true, but I'm not sure what it proves, other than the quote is valid. The interpretation is flimsy. 


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#22 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted May 11 2013 - 08:57 PM

Here's the exact quote:

 

One issue I had with the latter version was that on the way to Kini-Nui, some of the Matoran in the Chronicler's Company would sometimes have blank text boxes. For example, I remember when I first played this game back in 2003 that Tamaru actually said something before swinging across that canyon, instead of that blank text box we see in the offline version. Now that Templar has released the original version, I'm quite happy to finally see what's been missing for a while.

 

:shrugs: Probably true, but I'm not sure what it proves, other than the quote is valid. The interpretation is flimsy. 

This is actually what made me go and play it on the website. I think what it proves is that there was stuff originally meant to be in the game that LEGO accidentally removed or got removed somehow and now the true original is back for us to reap the benefits. Just sayin'.


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#23 Offline Toa of Anarchy

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Posted May 12 2013 - 09:37 AM

Kapura is a complete mystery as to how he does what he does. One thing I know for sure, it takes lots of "practice".

Anyways, I think that what he does is NOT teleportation because he would have used it to go across the canyon or some other obstacle. Maybe because he moves so slow most of the time, when he really tries hard, he uses all the energy he saved up by "practicing" and moving slowly to move at extremly high speeds.


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#24 Offline Krane

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Posted May 12 2013 - 09:47 AM

Well I always thought he travelled fast. I never believed that he could teleport. Well it does seem like a mystery now that I'm thinking about it.
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#25 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 12 2013 - 10:17 AM

Well, he'd had a thousand years to travel to all the villages by normal means if he had some reason to, who knows?

 

I doubt it. In the Charred Jungle, he says, "The island has many places to visit. I want to see all of them. But the others do not like to travel", which indicates he was more or less stuck in Ta-Koro.

 

And more generally, a lot of MNOLG dialogue suggests travel between the villages was very dangerous and therefore limited. Maku got in trouble for leaving Ga-Koro even briefly, trade between Onu-Koro and Le-Koro was almost impossible on land or sea, and Taipu had apparently never visited Le-Wahi until the tunnel there was finished.

Seems reasonable. What I had in mind re: Taipu, for the record, is the is not a right hand or left hand Matoran of a village (as far as I recall? lol), while Kapura is. So Kapura being more important could mean he has traveled. Also, wanting to see them all is not mutually exclusive with having seen some of them. Still, you could be right.

 

Here's the exact quote

 

One issue I had with the latter version was that on the way to Kini-Nui, some of the Matoran in the Chronicler's Company would sometimes have blank text boxes. For example, I remember when I first played this game back in 2003 that Tamaru actually said something before swinging across that canyon, instead of that blank text box we see in the offline version. Now that Templar has released the original version, I'm quite happy to finally see what's been missing for a while.

 

:shrugs: Probably true, but I'm not sure what it proves, other than the quote is valid. The interpretation is flimsy. 

Alright, point conceded on the quote, then. :)

 

Kapura is a complete mystery as to how he does what he does. One thing I know for sure, it takes lots of "practice".

Anyways, I think that what he does is NOT teleportation because he would have used it to go across the canyon or some other obstacle. Maybe because he moves so slow most of the time, when he really tries hard, he uses all the energy he saved up by "practicing" and moving slowly to move at extremly high speeds.

Well, what I had in mind about that canyon is that if memory serves, it was mostly covered in dense foliage, and he wouldn't have been familiar with the other side. So it could be interpreted as saying "That's no safe landing; I'm not teleporting there."


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#26 Offline Dralcax

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Posted May 12 2013 - 10:33 AM

Ummm... how can a Matoran teleport in the first place? It's not like they can use mask powers or anything. I'm going to have to say that moving slow saves up energy so that he can move fast.


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#27 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 12 2013 - 11:06 AM

Ummm... how can a Matoran teleport in the first place? It's not like they can use mask powers or anything. I'm going to have to say that moving slow saves up energy so that he can move fast.

Well, I've got a trick up my sleeve for that question that I've already written in that history retelling, but you'll have to wait to hear it. :P For now, suffice to say, Kapura could be modified, and there's also the fact that he called it a "secret art". So he could be tapping into something in all Matoran that few know of, and/or something about the physics of protodermis itself.

 

And how would moving slow, the whole tortoise/hare thing explain him getting to his destination ahead of Takua? He's portrayed as moving reeeeally slowly. I don't see a tortoise/hare thing actually working like that. :P If you walked around that slowly, the effort of holding your limbs up for such long moments would actually tire you out faster. It's possible, but I'm not quite convinced that's what was being described.


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#28 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted May 12 2013 - 09:05 PM

 

Well, he'd had a thousand years to travel to all the villages by normal means if he had some reason to, who knows?

 

I doubt it. In the Charred Jungle, he says, "The island has many places to visit. I want to see all of them. But the others do not like to travel", which indicates he was more or less stuck in Ta-Koro.

 

And more generally, a lot of MNOLG dialogue suggests travel between the villages was very dangerous and therefore limited. Maku got in trouble for leaving Ga-Koro even briefly, trade between Onu-Koro and Le-Koro was almost impossible on land or sea, and Taipu had apparently never visited Le-Wahi until the tunnel there was finished.

Seems reasonable. What I had in mind re: Taipu, for the record, is the is not a right hand or left hand Matoran of a village (as far as I recall? lol), while Kapura is. So Kapura being more important could mean he has traveled. Also, wanting to see them all is not mutually exclusive with having seen some of them. Still, you could be right.

 

Why was Kapura, with his odd habits and strange personality, given such a position? Of all the Ta-Matoran he seems the least desirable for a role of responsibility.

 

And surely if he'd already seen some, he would've said, "I want to see more of them." But we can only guess on this.

 

And how would moving slow, the whole tortoise/hare thing explain him getting to his destination ahead of Takua? He's portrayed as moving reeeeally slowly. I don't see a tortoise/hare thing actually working like that.

 

Strangely, when Takua asks him "How did you get here?", Kapura replies, "I now know the secret art of traveling great distances by moving very slowly." Yet this doesn't explain how he has reached Po or Ko-Koro faster than Takua, and we can only conclude that Takua himself must have moved extremely slowly.

 

If you walked around that slowly, the effort of holding your limbs up for such long moments would actually tire you out faster.

 

Also, if the distance was great, night would fall before you reached your destination. You'd either have to stop for rest and safety, or wander in the dark until you got lost or killed. Any of these would prolong or stop your journey, not shorten it.


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#29 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 15 2013 - 12:27 PM

Why was Kapura, with his odd habits and strange personality, given such a position? Of all the Ta-Matoran he seems the least desirable for a role of responsibility.

I've always wondered that too. Canonically I've never found a good clear theory.

 

My interpretation for The Destiny of Bionicle is rooted in historical events, without giving it away, saying that Vakama knew Kapura well and saw him as reliable, and something happened to cause him alone to be able to teleport, and Vakama's choice is based on a bit of both.

 

Possibly also "left hand" is a bit of a "feel good title" rather than something all that practical like right hand. Jaller has actual authority, and seems nearly equal to the Turaga himself, while Kapura seems to just be an advisor and messenger sometimes. Off the top of my head not sure how well that applies to the other "left hand" Matoran but yeah.


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#30 Offline Sheogorath

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Posted May 15 2013 - 05:32 PM

what if he time travels? it would make sense to me. he would be moving slowly to him, but to others he would be fast. 


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#31 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 15 2013 - 05:37 PM

Well, in ye olden times we would have an easy answer for that -- Greg said "no time travel in Bionicle". But now since the Kanohi Mohtrek I'm not sure. It would certainly make the saying fit, but it would also be way harder to explain. Teleportation was one of the eight most common powers in Metru Nui -- nearly every Matoran had access to it in Kanoka form. Time travel however is most likely nearly impossible to get your hands on.


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#32 Offline Canis Lycaon

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Posted May 15 2013 - 07:00 PM

Well, maybe he warps time around him. He speeds up time around him, so he moves faster compared to everyone else.


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#33 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 15 2013 - 07:18 PM

Well, maybe he warps time around him. He speeds up time around him, so he moves faster compared to everyone else.

I did throw that out as one possibility earlier (albeit highly unlikely; this is what the Vahi does and it's a Legendary Mask, so yeah... :P).


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#34 Offline IsHARI

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Posted May 16 2013 - 12:07 PM

About Kapura being left hand - I'm sure Vakama said that despite being odd, there is a great wisdom in his words. It's useful to have a wise left hand.

 

About traveling - I always imagined him walking very slowly and suddenly appearing at the destination, but not like teleportation, more like moving with speed of light. Now I realized that maybe in BIONICLE world if you move slower and slower you eventually end up on on the other side of the speed scale. Except when you don't move at all which could be considered the 'minimum speed'... Sigh... This theory isn't very consistent or likely to be canon... *sadface*


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#35 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 16 2013 - 12:19 PM

That would be explainable, actually, come to think of it. Assuming something like my cyberclay theory is true for how protodermic physics work, it may be a way to "hack" the code. Maybe the dissonance between registering the mind focused on fast travel while the body is moving really slowly takes advantage of a glitch in the code. Teleportation being one of the eight basic powers means IMO that many basic protodermic functions may use it, but normally they aren't available for control by a mind. This glitch might activate one of those functions to "solve" the detected cognitive dissonance.

 

That would also help explain the description of it as a secret art. (Although I forget if that was the exact wording or my paraphrase.)


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#36 Offline ToaKaprua1324

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Posted May 16 2013 - 06:03 PM

Is this Bionicle or the Matrix? :P


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Me playing MNOG: Aw poor Taipu. First he has to do double work then he's kidnapped. And poor Maku. She gets quarantined for saving her village.

Me playing MNOG II: CURSE YOU TAIPU! DIE DIE DIE! GRR, STOP SCORING! MACKU, YOU CAN'T BLOCK ANYTHING! YOU'RE FIRED!

The Legend of the Bionicle...Toys. My comedy. Give it a read. It's only $9.99(free if you give a USEFUL comment) and it has free ice cream. End shameless advertising.
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#37 Offline bonesiii

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Posted May 16 2013 - 06:34 PM

Glitches are certainly possible within Bionicle. :P Actually, protodermis is very much like the Matrix, but physically real. (Or it seems to be.)


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