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fishers64

Hero Factory has more story than BIONICLE 2015.

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And I mean comparably, year by year, on average.

 

In the beginning, Hero Factory had four full TV shows. Four, that were 30 minutes apiece.

 

Ordeal of Fire, one 30 minute segment and some funny online videos.

 

Savage Planet, 1 hour TV special.

 

Breakout: 1 hour TV special, a story-based game, and two secret mission books.

 

Brain Attack: 30 minute TV special, 3 books

 

Invasion from Below: One 24 minute TV thingy.

 

Compared with:

 

Bionicle 2015: about 24 minutes of real video and one book, maybe two? I mean, it beats IFB, but that's not saying much, and the book retells the animations, as opposed to HF Secret Missions which told whole new stories.

 

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

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As of right now, the answer is objectively yes. Hero Factory has more story content than the reboot. However, whether the sets are around for three years or not, this year might be a "dip in the water" in terms of other media. Maybe we'll get a full show next year, akin to Ninjago or Chima. I also seem to recall Ryder saying something about comics in that German interview from a few days ago. Another thing to consider is that Bionicle had just ended and Lego was trying something new with Hero Factory; now they have to work carefully to not come up with repetitive storylines for the Bionicle reboot.

Edited by Bonkle

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As things stand right now, I have to say I agree with you. It has promise, but this whole year so far has been incredibly underwhelming as compared to the first year of Hero Factory.

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I very much disagree. The animations (despite my problems with them) still add more to the characters and world then HF's TV specials ever did as those were mostly fighting. 


It's time to move on.

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Hero Factory was a four-year theme. Bionicle 2015 is still in its first. I personally like the mystery with everything in Bionicle 2015. The animations mostly follow the journey of the Toa through a strange city to save the Mask of Creation. They don't know where they are, the history of the city or how anything works there. The novels definitely have a bit more lore to them, and it makes sense because they follow the Islanders more. The Toa in this iteration don't need to know the past. They barely know what's going on. They know they must do their duty, and that's what they've done. They haven't asked the Protectors to tell them the history of the island or what their names for the creatures are. They saw the island in danger, and knew they must help it. Lore isn't necessary for anyone to enjoy the animations- it's so we can follow the adventures of the Toa, as we are strangers to Okoto also. Yes, lore was one of the defining features of the original Bionicle, but Bionicle 2015 is doing just fine as it is.


I HATE SCORPIOS


 


~Pohatu Master of Stone, 2015

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To be honest, I think Hero Factory's story content is larger than the Bionicle reboot, because it lived more years than the reboot does. With more years means more story content. At first, HF had a great amount of character development, but in the end, the number of TV episodes was declining every year and the character development was pretty bad in the Invasion From Below episode. When the Bionicle reboot came in, the webisodes did better than the IFB episode, despite the fact that every character is voiced by one guy.


I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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Is this topic really suggesting that a theme that's been back for a YEAR can be fairly compared to something that lasted FOUR TIMES that amount? Really? It's just not fair to start pointing the finger when we've only literally just started. Ask me again in 3 years, and then I'll be able to fairly answer this. 

Edited by Ayliffe
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I mean... you're not TOTALLY wrong. But it's an absolutely unfair comparison simply because you're comparing one isolated year of Bionicle against five years of Hero Factory with varying amounts of media.

 

You're right that Hero Factory had more media in some years. However, 24 minutes of story media and three books (two chapter books and one graphic novel, not one like you claim) isn't too shabby for a theme that's just starting out. It's true that Hero Factory had about four times as much animated story media in its first year (though you misleadingly list every TV special from Hero Factory in 30-minute increments when in fact every one of them was written with room for commercial breaks). But that was pretty much ALL it had—the only comics were exact retellings of those episodes, and Hero Factory FM, while funny, was more focused on reiterating the same sort of storytelling and character bios in a more entertaining and digestible format. Do also remember that the initial Hero Factory animations were presumably benefiting from the existing contract with Tinseltown Toons, carried over from Bionicle's cancellation—if that unfulfilled contract had not existed, the media picture for Hero Factory may have been much different (as it was last year, once the contract had ended and we subsequently got only a single 24-minute TV special).

 

Bionicle, notably, is pursuing a diversified media strategy from the get-go, unlike Hero Factory, which never got graphic novels and only got books two years in. The takeaway from that is that if Bionicle's books and graphic novels are successful, we could see several of those per year (perhaps as many as four books and three graphic novels if the current release schedule holds), in addition to whatever primary story media those years contain (which may well exceed the length of the current short animations). I think if you were to make this comparison one or two years from now, you'd find that the two themes would be more equivalent (or indeed, possibly skewed in Bionicle's favor).

Edited by Lyichir
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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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Is this topic really suggesting that a theme that's been back for a YEAR can be fairly compared to something that lasted FOUR TIMES that amount? Really? It's just not fair to start pointing the finger when we've only literally just started. Ask me again in 3 years, and then I'll be able to fairly answer this. 

No, she said "comparatively, year by year." Meaning, no matter which year of HF you compare it to (just one), then Bionicle is on the losing side. Which is still perhaps an unfair comparison with the latter years, but comparing 2010 HF to 2015 Bionicle seems perfectly fair, if you ask me.

 

It's also not a comparison I can make very well, since I haven't read the book. Or the yet unreleased ones. But I'd definitely say there's some truth to this. I've found the animations and the story found in them mostly underwhelming. HF certainly had flaws, but I know I enjoyed its story media in just the half year it got in 2010 far more than I've enjoyed Bionicle this time around.

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Something that's important to remember is that LEGO bases their expectations for themes on the themes that came before them. For instance, Ninjago did not get a full TV series in its first year — just a 44-minute TV special, which was a step up from the 22-minute TV special the previous "big bang" theme (Atlantis) had gotten. When Ninjago's TV special was successful, only then did LEGO expand it into two full 13-episode seasons. Later, in 2013, when Ninjago was supposed to be ending, Legends of Chima was launched with a 20-episode season. This would not have happened if the Ninjago TV series had not just proven that a full TV series based on a LEGO theme was viable.

Similarly, Hero Factory got four 22-minute TV episodes in 2010 because the theme most like it that preceded it (Bionicle) had gotten an 88-minute movie the previous year. It's also worth mentioning that Tinseltown Toons was already under contract to produce at least three 88-minute Bionicle movies. They had produced the first (Bionicle: The Legend Reborn), but since Bionicle was cancelled after that point, they ended up producing other LEGO TV episodes and specials to fulfill that contract.

The same scenario does not apply to the Bionicle reboot. LEGO has not contracted anyone to produce further Hero Factory TV specials, and what immediately preceded the Bionicle reboot was a single 22-minute web video for Hero Factory (Invasion from Below). It would be irresponsible not to base expectations for the Bionicle reboot (and thus, its budget) on what preceded it. The 2015 Bionicle budget is already larger than the 2014 Hero Factory budget, probably by virtue of it being a fresh new theme, but the overall budget expansion is incremental, not game-changing.

If this year turns out to be particularly successful, we might see the budget expand to allow for a longer video series in 2016, just like how the Ninjago theme's TV presence expanded so tremendously in its second year. But I wouldn't necessarily expect growth on that same level. Remember, LEGO Ninjago was the LEGO Group's most successful launch for a new product line of all time back in 2011. If the Bionicle reboot were setting any records of that kind I think we'd have heard more buzz about them by now.

Edited by Aanchir

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I agree with Fishers here, it's like the Lego group isn't even trying.

 

Not sure if you did or didn't read my previous post about LEGO basing their marketing efforts on precedent. But let me bring something else up. Considering that the Hero Factory TV series got fewer and fewer episodes each year (4 in 2010, 3 in 2011, 2 in 2012, one in 2013, and nothing but a free online episode in 2014)... has it occurred to you that maybe the Hero Factory TV episodes weren't that successful? And thus, that LEGO might rather try something new (a series of shareable mini-webisodes) than repeat a mediocre marketing tactic?

 

Plus, unlike Ninjago, I certainly don't remember reading about the Hero Factory TV series setting any viewership records. So I can't imagine a lot of TV networks would have been champing at the bit to get the broadcast rights for a theme whose immediate predecessor performed so poorly. LEGO isn't going to pour a lot of money into a series that nobody except them wants to broadcast. Now that Netflix has picked Bionicle up for a four-episode series it goes without saying that it finally merits a bigger media investment.

Edited by Aanchir
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Media reach aside, the quality of the animations/movies/commercials is what matters. So far we've been getting five second cheap-as-dirt fights with mildly good animation (with several flaws), corny jokes to emphasize toddler-type humor, and little to no character development. And these animations haven't inspired me to buy the sets at all.

 

Plus if they intend to move through a series this fast, how can they have a reasonable storyline? I'm not saying Hero Factory was good; it was terrible. But much more effort was put into it than what they have now.

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Media reach aside, the quality of the animations/movies/commercials is what matters. So far we've been getting five second cheap-as-dirt fights with mildly good animation (with several flaws), corny jokes to emphasize toddler-type humor, and little to no character development. And these animations haven't inspired me to buy the sets at all.

 

Plus if they intend to move through a series this fast, how can they have a reasonable storyline? I'm not saying Hero Factory was good; it was terrible. But much more effort was put into it than what they have now.

I agree with Ghidora. If it's about trying to sell the stuff, I need to know more about Skull Slicer than the fact that he fell to his death five seconds after we met him.

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Media reach aside, the quality of the animations/movies/commercials is what matters. So far we've been getting five second cheap-as-dirt fights with mildly good animation (with several flaws), corny jokes to emphasize toddler-type humor, and little to no character development. And these animations haven't inspired me to buy the sets at all.

 

Plus if they intend to move through a series this fast, how can they have a reasonable storyline? I'm not saying Hero Factory was good; it was terrible. But much more effort was put into it than what they have now.

Which of the humor do you consider "toddler-type"? I can't help feeling that you don't genuinely know a lot of toddlers.

 

From what I've seen in this and other communities I've been in, the humor in the webisodes has been popular with a lot of people, even adults. Like Onua nearly admitting to his part in the damage of the City of the Mask Makers and Lewa shushing him, or Lewa's joke about Onua knowing how to "grab" attention, or Kopaka's "I didn't slip" and "I hate fire". Not only are these all quality jokes, but they help establish the personalities of the characters in question: Onua being humble and forthright, Kopaka being prideful to a fault, and Lewa being an easygoing jokester. A lot of these examples also have a memetic quality that makes them more fun on a social level.

 

And to be honest, I'd consider all those examples a lot funnier than "Alright, who fired the tickle spinner?" from Web of Shadows, the Jaws reference from "Federation of Fear", or the Wizard of Oz reference in "Brothers in Arms".

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All the jokes you mentioned from G1 are better than Kopaka making an element pun.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The "tickle spinner" line is the only one of those G1 jokes I mentioned that was funny to me at all, and even it pales in comparison to Taipu's obliviousness in 2001 or Pohatu getting magnetized to a bunch of goats in 2003, let alone any of the G2 jokes I mentioned. I just generally prefer more lighthearted humor to the sarcastic one-liners and out-of-place pop culture references that characterized so many of the "jokes" in the later years of G1.

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All the jokes you mentioned from G1 are better than Kopaka making an element pun.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The "tickle spinner" line is the only one of those G1 jokes I mentioned that was funny to me at all, and even it pales in comparison to Taipu's obliviousness in 2001 or Pohatu getting magnetized to a bunch of goats in 2003, let alone any of the G2 jokes I mentioned. I just generally prefer more lighthearted humor to the sarcastic one-liners and out-of-place pop culture references that characterized so many of the "jokes" in the later years of G1.

 

 

 

It got REALLY out of hand when most of the jokes in the final years got stupidly dark. It got to a point where most jokes ended with decapitation, disembowlment, or some other form of mutilation or disfigurement as a punchline.

 

"Look, violence! Yaaay, it's dark and bloody, so that means it's okay for you teens to still be interested in this theme that you liked as a kid." I think they were just trying too hard.

Edited by NickonAquaMagna
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The Toa- A Bionicle Retelling by NickonAquaMagna http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/25275-the-toa-a-retelling-of-bionicle/

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It got REALLY out of hand when most of the jokes in the final years got stupidly dark. It got to a point where most jokes ended with decapitation, disembowlment, or some other form of mutilation or disfigurement as a punchline.

 

"Look, violence! Yaaay, it's dark and bloody, so that means it's okay for you teens to still be interested in this theme that you liked as a kid." I think they were just trying too hard.

 

 

Yeah, the story got pretty literally horrible in what was unfortunately my favorite (set and/or aesthetic-wise) time of Bionicle. the only grimdark horror that gets a pass is pridak's bloody face markings and that's jsut because he's really, really cool looking...

 

anyway, yes. Hero factory has more than 2015 Bionicle. no, it's really not much better.

 

RotR looked visuall nice, but... ugh. the overall plot, the treatment of 50% of the villains, the black hole...

 

Meltdown's one-liner was literally the best part, i quote it like, forever. but still.


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