Video Game General (Official)

[Axilus Prime]

Stuff ending with:

 

John doesn't joke, he's not curious about anything, he has no dreams, no ideals, doesn't contemplate anything, lacks any sort of internal conflict or traits that make him even relatively human

Might wanna stop right there before you humiliate yourself further--too late.

 

He made multiple jokes, some of which were silent.

 

Cortana: Hmm. Your suit's architecture isn't much different from the Autumn's...

Chief: Don't get any funny ideas.

 

(ODST pods land, Chief exits one)

Cortana: Could we possibly make any more noise?

Chief: (Pulls out a Rocket Launcher in response)

Cortana: ...I guess so.

 

Truth: You are, all of you, vermin! Cowering in the dirt, thinking, what, I wonder? That you might escape the coming fire? No, your world will burn until its surface is but glass, and not even your Demon will live to creep, blackened, from its hole, to mar the reflection of our passing. For your destruction is the will of the gods...and I? I am their instrument!

Chief: ...Does he usually mention me?

 

Cortana: (Asks something about what his escape plan is, I forgot the exact words)

Chief: Thought I'd try shooting my way out. Mix things up a little.

 

Now, curiosity, dreams, ideals, contemplation, they're all in his head. Unless you can hear his thoughts, there's no way to say that he lacks them.

 

No emotional connection to anything but Cortana? And just barely to Cortana? What?

 

He clearly hung his head in sadness when Johnson died, he showed some hesitation in his body movements when he had to punch Keyes' corpse to pull neural implants from his brain, and....the entirety of Halo 4 shows that it's definitely not just barely a connection to Cortana.

 

So...is the problem that you're blind? Deaf? Have the attention span of a frog? Or simply bash anything mainstream?

[Archer Vonn]

calm down axilus, you're acting like a nerd.

 

 

Now, curiosity, dreams, ideals, contemplation, they're all in his head. Unless you can hear his thoughts, there's no way to say that he lacks them.

 

a part of storytelling is showing the characters thoughts. this is, in fact, a huge part of storytelling. if we can't see a characters motivations beyond 'i was told to,' then, as an audience, we can accurately assume that they have none. it isn't our job to read master chief's mind, it's bungies to tell us.

 

 

He clearly hung his head in sadness when Johnson died, he showed some hesitation in his body movements when he had to punch Keyes' corpse to pull neural implants from his brain, and

 

these are miniscule actions on the emotional spectrum that writers can work with. he never even addressed them aloud. that wasn't him being thoughtful or caring, that was him acknowledging the weight of a situation.

 

sociopaths do that a lot. and we can't even claim that he is a sociopath to add some level of interest to his character because he's a soldier who has been desensitized to death since he was a child.

 

i can't comment on the cortana thing, i didn't play halo 4.

 

he's really just a generic action hero with a green suit of armour and some verisimilitude sprinkled in. and not enough to make him any different from a rambo in armour.

 

if i may a step back further, the good part of halo is the lore, not the characters. i don't even like when people praise the lore all that much since it was largely taken from a sci-fi novel that was published in the 80s.

[Terminus]

Isn't Origin glorified malware/spyware? I remember that being one of the several reasons not to bother with it.

No, it had a security hole through which hackers could get into it and use it like malware, but I believe that problem's been fixed now.

 

Anyways, finally got origin to work (after how many days?), and Battlefield 3 is downloading right now.

[Axilus Prime]

calm down axilus, you're acting like a nerd.

 

(morestuffhere)

 

I wasn't actually angry, I was intentionally doing that, hence the at the end.

 

Now, very few games and movies now actually let you hear the thoughts of a character with that echo effect. I haven't seen anything do that for years. At present it's far more likely for them to show you their actions and body language (and facial expression if the face is visible, but it isn't always visible) which limits insight on what they think and feel to the present situation. That's not Chief-exclusive, that's with every character in a game, TV show, or movie these days.

 

Oh, and I forgot something. He does think for himself. For example, when 343 Guilty Spark tried to get him to activate the ring. Once he knew what the ring actually did, he refused to cooperate. Yes, Cortana did all the strategic thinking once his choice was made, but that's not a lack of character on Chief's part, that's just because Cortana is better at that.

[Manducus]

Funny thing is, the books shows more of the man behind the helmet unlike the games.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Kaiser Manducus

[Noxryn]

Might wanna stop right there before you humiliate yourself further--too late.

 

He made multiple jokes, some of which were silent.

 

Cortana: Hmm. Your suit's architecture isn't much different from the Autumn's...

Chief: Don't get any funny ideas.

 

(ODST pods land, Chief exits one)

Cortana: Could we possibly make any more noise?

Chief: (Pulls out a Rocket Launcher in response)

Cortana: ...I guess so.

 

Truth: You are, all of you, vermin! Cowering in the dirt, thinking, what, I wonder? That you might escape the coming fire? No, your world will burn until its surface is but glass, and not even your Demon will live to creep, blackened, from its hole, to mar the reflection of our passing. For your destruction is the will of the gods...and I? I am their instrument!

Chief: ...Does he usually mention me?

 

Cortana: (Asks something about what his escape plan is, I forgot the exact words)

Chief: Thought I'd try shooting my way out. Mix things up a little.

 

Now, curiosity, dreams, ideals, contemplation, they're all in his head. Unless you can hear his thoughts, there's no way to say that he lacks them.

 

No emotional connection to anything but Cortana? And just barely to Cortana? What?

 

He clearly hung his head in sadness when Johnson died, he showed some hesitation in his body movements when he had to punch Keyes' corpse to pull neural implants from his brain, and....the entirety of Halo 4 shows that it's definitely not just barely a connection to Cortana.

 

So...is the problem that you're blind? Deaf? Have the attention span of a frog? Or simply bash anything mainstream?

 

You pulled a very small amount of situations out of four games created over a decade where the Master Chief showed signs of humanity. That's not a lot. It's very little, and those situations are very... they don't do a whole lot for who he is as a character, as a human being. They don't show us more about him (other than he has dry humor that pops up... rarely). What's he afraid of? What are his ambitions? What are his motivations? What does he hold above all else? Is he the same person in game 4 as he is in game 1? He's not really expounded upon, or put into situations that would reveal to the player just who he is under that green armor (and, in the end, is basically still the same person from Game 1 due to lack of meaningful development).

 

And besides for paying some expected respects for fallen comrades... he's still just this green armored individual who seriously lacks character. In fact most video game protagonists (more so in the FPS genre), a ton of movie action heroes and the like suffer from these poor characterization issues where the main character may have a few scenes displaying other characteristics about who they are, but then go right back into existing for the pure purpose of "look cool killing things, feats of strength" and that's about all there is to them (besides some franchises that stick in the "gruff, dark and edgy" traits). We rarely, if ever, see their softer moments, see them when they're vulnerable, see them fail or be placed in a situation where they can't be the hero, we don't see them struggling with internal conflicts, with internal moral dilemmas and problems (even problems when it comes to friends, having relationships with other breathing, human creatures -- how does John even feel about the Alliance that happened? Does he worry about anyone, besides for Cortana?). I mean, John -- in the books -- did have some struggles waaaaay when he was little, but those struggles are glossed over and largely ignored from a story telling standpoint. But those are books, not games.

 

Halo 4 is probably where he showed the most humanity (and this game was developed by a different studio than 3, 2, 1 -- not counting spin off titles), but even then he still showed a lot less character than some of the other main characters in other games (The one with Noble Six, I think is with the Spartan III team?). We never see him seriously mourn someone, or something -- and no, hanging your head for one moment is not character development. Nothing deeply emotionally affects him, or changes him. The armor he wears changes more than he does.

 

Admittedly, Chief lacks personality by design... so... he pretty much is just a suit of green armor (who we, the gamer, are supposed to put a personality to as we play... but that gameplay aspect comes at a sacrifice to the story).

 

 

(Also, just because a character may have something batting around in their head doesn't make the critique less true, those things are never written and we know nothing about them -- his head could also be completely empty and void of anything pertaining to dreams and motivations and ambitions. Writers are there to show you who the character is, why they're doing what they are doing, why they care about what they're doing, things that make them relatable and why you should care about them).

[Archer Vonn]

Funny thing is, the books shows more of the man behind the helmet unlike the games.

 

i read the one that was a novelization of the first game, and no, they didn't.

 

 

Now, very few games and movies now actually let you hear the thoughts of a character with that echo effect. I haven't seen anything do that for years. At present it's far more likely for them to show you their actions and body language (and facial expression if the face is visible, but it isn't always visible) which limits insight on what they think and feel to the present situation. That's not Chief-exclusive, that's with every character in a game, TV show, or movie these days.

 

again, no

 

tv shows and movies show thoughts through dialogue, chief has almost no dialogue.

 

i'll agree that characters in games mostly suck. chief isn't alone there.

[Manducus]

 

Funny thing is, the books shows more of the man behind the helmet unlike the games.

 

i read the one that was a novelization of the first game, and no, they didn't.

 

You read one book. You can't validate something by only reading a single book.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Kaiser Manducus

[Hodor]

Saints Row the Third and Dark Souls are up for free for Xbox Live Gold customers.

[Manducus]

Saints Row the Third and Dark Souls are up for free for Xbox Live Gold customers.

 

Saints Row was last month though.

[Hodor]

 

Saints Row the Third and Dark Souls are up for free for Xbox Live Gold customers.

 

Saints Row was last month though.

Still up, it seems? At least, it was this morning.

[Manducus]

Probably didn't fully get rid of it yet. So far it's Dark Souls, Charlie Murder, and a bonus: Super Street Fighter IV for this month.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Kaiser Manducus

[Just A Dot]

I just got me Sonic '06 on PS3. A friend of mine came over, and he and my sister had an awesome afternoon with that game. It's like the Sharknado of video games - so bad, that it's good.

[Dapper-Sama]

Y'know, methinks BZP'ers aughta play more games together, could be fun.

[PDPsi HAN]

Y'know, methinks BZP'ers aughta play more games together, could be fun.

 

 

There is a steam group but it has to be organized games that a lot of people can have access to, such as f2p games like TF2, planetside 2, warframe, etc.

[Dapper-Sama]

I don't have steam... :C

[Manducus]

I recommend getting one. And while you're at that, get Cry of Fear since it's free.

[Dapper-Sama]

Problem is, I don't have a PC that can run any kind of game above web versions of CounterStrike.

[Pupwa21]

>Problem is, I don't have a PC that can run any kind of game above web versions of CounterStrike.

>can run any kind of game above web versions of CounterStrike.

>web versions of CounterStrike.

>into_the_trash_it_goes.jpg

Edited June 3, 2014 by why did I do this?

[Archer Vonn]

what website are you on

[Ghosthands]

Hi there, guys - I rarely venture into COT, but since this is (presumably) a community of people who like both video games and Lego, I thought you might like to take a look at my custom minifigs and MOCs based on the Mass Effect and Portal franchises

 

[/shamelessplug]

 

<ahem>

 

Anyway, I'm a huge Mass Effect fan. Just started a replay of ME2 on Insanity, and it's...intense. Harder than ME3 Insanity. Anybody else here a fan?

Edited June 3, 2014 by Ghosthands

[Dapper-Sama]

what website are you on

Kongregate.

[Wazdakka]

@Kit and Haters

 

I kinda feel like you guys are missing the point about John-117.

 

Frank O'Connor himself, at Bungie and 343, has said that the Chief is purposefully designed to be quiet so that the player can inhabit his shoes more fully, so that the gamer can project himself into the fictional slate provided for them. On a storyline level, your claim that Chief has little humanity (being human) is vindicated. He's not supposed to be. He's a living breathing killing machine. While he may lack many basic human traits, that does not necessarily mean that he is emotionally shallow. That said, I cannot argue that he is a particularly deep character.

 

Also, the Master Chief and Cortana have always had a strong relationship, which while elaborated upon in Halo 4, still existed prior to that.

 

In addition, look at all the questions you're asking about him - the mystery of his blank persona is making you ask questions, questions of ambition, personality, etc. and that's part of the magic of Halo - leaving mystery and not explaining everything to you. For example, a good book will not tell you every single thing that happened, is happening, and will happen. Likewise, Halo does not reveal everything to you to keep a special element of mystery (I'm horribly overusing this word, there's obviously a more specific and nuanced term that exists out there, but I'm too darn lazy to go and find). That said, leaving a character totally blank is just as bad as telling you ever single detail about him/her. However, if you've played through all of the Halo games, there's the subtle interactions between Chief, Cortana, and others that add some flesh to Chief's personality bones.

 

In other news, I've been playing Titanfall on PC. Despite the lag, poor graphics on my end, and lack of my own FPS skill, it's kind of the best game I've played in a realllllly long time.

[Archer Vonn]

dude that's what we're saying

 

that's dumb

 

saying he's a lazy character on purpose doesn't make him a good character, it just makes him a lazy character and lazy characters are bad.

 

 

 

what website are you on

Kongregate.

 

 

duuude thank you for reminding me about that site!

Edited June 6, 2014 by ~JC~

[Lyichir]

dude that's what we're saying

 

that's dumb

 

saying he's a lazy character on purpose doesn't make him a good character, it just makes him a lazy character and lazy characters are bad.

 

 

The problem is that it's not "lazy", it's an intentional design decision. Yes, Master Chief is an underdeveloped character, and that's THE ENTIRE POINT. Many, many video games feature protagonists who essentially serve as a cipher for the player to inhabit (Link in Legend of Zelda, every Pokémon protagonist, and the majority of silent RPG protagonists). Despite not naming him yourself and the character getting dialogue in cutscenes, Master Chief is that kind of character. His character is defined in only two ways: by his relationships with other characters, and by the player's own immersion in the game.

 

Does that make him a weak character? By most definitions, yes. Does that make Halo's story a "lazy" one? No. The main character is defined not by who he is but by what he does, and by playing the game you step into the character's shoes and give him your own characterization. There are many, many ways to write a story, and especially in interactive media like games, keeping the character development to a minimum is a valid option, not a lazy one.

[Archer Vonn]

you have a lot of loyalty in you. i don't understand it, i don't particularly respect it, but i acknowledge it and won't fight it. let's just agree to disagree.

[Wazdakka]

 

 

 

The problem is that it's not "lazy", it's an intentional design decision. Yes, Master Chief is an underdeveloped character, and that's THE ENTIRE POINT. Many, many video games feature protagonists who essentially serve as a cipher for the player to inhabit (Link in Legend of Zelda, every Pokémon protagonist, and the majority of silent RPG protagonists). Despite not naming him yourself and the character getting dialogue in cutscenes, Master Chief is that kind of character. His character is defined in only two ways: by his relationships with other characters, and by the player's own immersion in the game.

 

Does that make him a weak character? By most definitions, yes. Does that make Halo's story a "lazy" one? No. The main character is defined not by who he is but by what he does, and by playing the game you step into the character's shoes and give him your own characterization. There are many, many ways to write a story, and especially in interactive media like games, keeping the character development to a minimum is a valid option, not a lazy one.

 

^This. This is what I was trying to say in my previous post, but didn't quite get to it as cleanly as Lyichir.

 

I'm just curious, can you guys give me a first-person shooter with a character that you consider adequately developed? This is a legitimate query from me, I'm not just being obstreperous.

 

Also, if I'm lagging a bit in Titanfall and I have good internet, it's probably my graphics card, right?

[Ghosthands]

I'm just curious, can you guys give me a first-person shooter with a character that you consider adequately developed?

 

Well, if you're willing to dip into third-person shooter/RPG hybrids, Commander Shepard is certainly developed as a character. Better than that, the way he/she develops is up to the player's decisions.

[Hodor]

E3 conferences start tomorrow.

 

Anything you guys are hoping to see?

[Just A Dot]

Couldn't really care less about what Microsoft has to say. From Sony, I want info on Uncharted 4, and have hopes that there will be an announcement for Sly 5, possibly another PlayStation All-Star game, and the revival of The Last Guardian. I'd also love for PS4 to offer the ability to play online without having to pay for PS+, but I doubt that will happen.

From Nintendo, I'm looking forward to Hyrule Warriors, Zelda U, Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, and SSB4. I will be very disappointed if they announce ANOTHER Mario game, and am expecting some more of their "Virtual Console games are on the way! Very slowly!" If they announced cross-platform, I will be thrilled, but this is Nintendo, and they won't do that.

 

Oh, and I'm going to be going to Best Buy this Wednesday to play SSB4.

[Terminus]

Mainly hoping for some Vita games, some PS4 games, and some release dates for Wii U games I feel like I've been waiting forever for (Mainly X and Bayonetta 2. Oh, and Smash,), and of course I'm hoping for some good surprises.

 

So yeah, I'll pretty much just be watching the Nintendo and Sony stuff like a hawk. Just like every other year.

[Ehksidian]

Me? Hoping mainly for a new 2D Metroid game (come on nintendo, seriously), gameplay of OR/AS, and...yeah, that's all from nintendo

I don't really care about Sony/Microsoft, though I will at least look over what they have afterwards, though I have no "I want to see this!" yet.

[PDPsi HAN]

E3 is just going to be filled with meaningless buzzwords for shareholders and investors. The focus is not on the consumer, and any flashy super graphics they show will obviously be downgraded for release like Watch Dogs.

Also lots of super hype for games that won't live up to it.

[Axilus Prime]

Halo 5. Enough said.

[Hodor]

I'm honestly not expecting much, if anything, from Microsoft. Hopefully they'll step up their game from last year, since they're now playing second-fiddle to the PS4 after the absolute nightmare that were the XBone conferences last year. We're probably gonna be seeing Halo 5 and that rumored 'Master Chief Collection', as part of the incentive to move more consoles- especially now that there's a Kinectless model. I doubt the rumor of Fallout 4 being an exclusive is true, at best it'd be a timed exclusive (even then >playing Bethesda games without mods). With The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt being confirmed to be at E3, and the franchise being on mostly Microsoft platforms before, I'm guessing this is where we're gonna see it if it has any big press.

 

I probably won't be watching EA.. I'm guessing last minute info on Dragon Age: Inquisition, info on Mass Effect 4, probably some other properties of theirs or new IPs, and most likely Star Wars games. Who knows, maybe Bioware's being made to shovel out Knights of the Old Republic III. This is probably going to be the conference that most people skip out on, given the dislike most non-casual gamers have for EA.

 

Ubisoft.... again, not expecting much. Far Cry 4 is confirmed, I think AssCreed Unity is too, but I can't really think of much else. I guess we might hear about Saints Row 5? Maybe we'll get Blood Dragon 2. Who knows?

 

Sony's either gonna be the best of the show or the worst. They, by far, won the show last year- even with their conference being 60% Xbone jabs, 20% PS4 and PSV, and 20% IS THAT FINAL FANTASY XV and OH MY GOD IT'S KINGDOM HEARTS 3. This year's a bit of a toss up- they're, by far, the leading party when it comes to console sales. As a result, they arguably have the highest expectations. With Square confirming not to be bringing KH3 and FF15 to show, I'm guessing they'll probably be relying mostly on The Order and Uncharted 4 to make impressions for the PS4's 'killer app'. Of course, they could also just as easily show The Last Guardian as 'REMEMBER THIS? IT'S COMING OUT NOW' and automatically win the hearts of most gamers.

 

Nintendo's tomorrow. Really, just showing Hyrule Warriors, Super Smash Bros Kerfuffle, Bayonetta 2, and X. We'll probably see at least a bit piece on the Hoenn Remakes, too. Short of Gaben showing up to announce that Half Life 3 is not only coming out, but going to be a console exclusive to the Wii U, there's not going to be any major surprises.

[Manducus]

I'm more interested in seeing Halo 5, Halo 2: Anniversary, the remake of Sapphire and Ruby, the new Battlefield game, Arkham Knight, and AC: Unity. Maybe the rumored Battlefront?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Kaiser Manducus

[Terminus]

They just showed some early footage of Battlefront. Looks cool, hoping it's as good at 1 & 2.

[Manducus]

They did? I actually thought the game was a rumor.

[Terminus]

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed a while ago... The new logo's been floating around for at least a couple weeks.

[Ehksidian]

The new Battlefront game was confirmed a long time ago, when EA posted a trailer for it.

Not gameplay, but it was a trailer that was advertising a new Battlefront game.