Kanoka Questions

[Ranaki_Pakewa]

I was wondering, since Kanoka Discs can be forged into Kanohi Masks, could they be forged into other shapes as well? For example, maybe a chestplate made from a Kanoka of Shielding could be made, so a shield is put up to prevent further blows?

 

Would the Kanoka disk have to remain whole in the process, or could small chunks or parts be broken off and shaped separately? Maybe a Matoran prefers a slingshot over throwing a disk; could he separate a Kanoka into smaller pieces and shape them to fit the sling? (I'm sure some of this would depend on the power level of the original Kanoka, in the same way that a Kanohi's strength is dependent.)

 

If a 156 (Ta, Enlarges)  and a 578 (Le, Regenerates) where merged in Ga-Metru, by a Po-Matoran, to create a Kanoka of Shielding, what properties would it have? Would the disk have the flight properties of a Ta, Le, Ga, or Po disk, or would it be a mix, and a mix of which? What would its power level be? Would it be the lowest value (6), the highest (8), or the average of the powers (7)?

 

If a Kanoka was shaped into a projectile besides a disk (slingshot ammo, a sphere to throw, etc), would it still retain its original flight properties? Would this possibly be determined by if the Kanoka product was in contact with its owner while launching, or if it was launched by a sling or catapult? (Keep in mind, traditional disks kept their flight properties when launched by a Disk Launcher.)

 

These questions are for keeping a fan-fic/project in line with canon, and I already have my own personal opinions, but I would like to see what the general consensus is. Thanks for reading and for your answers in advance!

[Toa Of Virtues]

I assumed that the nature of them is that they will only work in those two forms. The great beings would probably do this so that they cant create anything too powerful. And remember, you can only use masks of power if you are a toa or turaga, and it will only work if it is worn as a mask (except the mask of elemental energy, but that's an odd one).

Edited December 12, 2014 by TuragaOfVirtues

[Mjolnitor]

I was wondering, since Kanoka Discs can be forged into Kanohi Masks, could they be forged into other shapes as well?

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Kanoka_Blade

So, yes.

[Ekorak]

If a 156 (Ta, Enlarges)  and a 578 (Le, Regenerates) where merged in Ga-Metru, by a Po-Matoran, to create a Kanoka of Shielding, what properties would it have? Would the disk have the flight properties of a Ta, Le, Ga, or Po disk, or would it be a mix, and a mix of which? What would its power level be? Would it be the lowest value (6), the highest (8), or the average of the powers (7)?

 

This one is easy. It would be a Kanoka of Shielding, likely with the flight properties of the Air disk due to the superior Power Level. It doesn't matter who makes it or where, it'll only have the powers of the disks used to make it.

 

The power level, in all sense, would be 8. This is just speculation though, as we don't have confirmation for sure.

[Archon~]

I want to say that it would only work as masks. Perhaps the magnetic connection that exists between Matoran faces and masks triggers the power? Maybe the blade only works when a Toa/Matoran would use the blade or Kanoka due to the (apparent) magnetization in Mu Being hands? There's another topic on here addressing that.

[fishers64]

Yes to all. 

 

For the disk merging question, I'd say it would be 7. 

[The 1st Shadow]

For a disk's power to activate, you have to hit it against something. Masks work differently, as they are attached to the head (my theory is that you bypass the impact-trigger by being in close proximity to the users mental processor, or something like that.) So, while it could work as armor, you'd probably have to hit it for the power to activate.

 

As for the merging, you can take out the Ga-Metru and Po-Matoran bits, since the only thing that matters is the two disks that it was made from. It has nothing to do with the Matoran doing the merging or the location it was done in. If you're merging a Ta-Metru disk and a Le-Metru disk, then those are the only qualities you need concern yourself with. This is like asking what would happen if a Vortixx took a Ta-Metru disk and a Le-Metru disk to Voya-Nui and merged it there.

 

Also, I'm assuming it would take on qualities of both. Or, it might take on the flight attributes of the strongest disk (in your example, the Le-Metru disk). And it would most likely average out at 7.

 

I'm not sure what to say about breaking it into smaller pieces. When a Kanohi is damaged, it's power fails. I was under the impression that disks might be the same way. Now, if a Ta-Matoran forged it into smaller pieces through a careful procedure, then it might work. Otherwise, I suspect they'd just turn into useless little chunks of metal. And, I don't really think that the flight attributes would carry over, since masks (aka, reforged Kanoka) don't retain them, either.

[Ranaki_Pakewa]

Thank you all for your opinions. The Kanoka Blade article helps allot. Most of you seem to be saying that the flight properties of the example Kanoka would either be both the Le and Ta, or just the Le properties, because it is the stronger disk. You also are saying that the disk would be either a level 7 or 8. According to you, the breaking apart of a Kanoka without the proper technique would render it powerless, but I would like to suggest that if it was properly forged into smaller pieces, they would still host some power (according to the disks power level). I don't think we will ever have a firm understanding of unconventionally shaped Kanoka flight characteristics, but I guess that doesn't truly need to be confirmed. Thanks again for your help, and if you have any more insight, please let me know. 

[Zeb]

For a disk's power to activate, you have to hit it against something. Masks work differently, as they are attached to the head (my theory is that you bypass the impact-trigger by being in close proximity to the users mental processor, or something like that.) So, while it could work as armor, you'd probably have to hit it for the power to activate.

So what would happen if a Toa was wearing Hau-armor and something hit it? If he was concentrating would the shield take effect soon enough to prevent the projectile from hurting him? Or would that armor be pretty much useless in terms of Kanoka powers?

[Regitnui]

I find this concept intriguing. Kanoka discs trigger on impact, if I recall. Ancient's boots had to be stomped (or jumped on, i guess) before they'd work, so I'd imagine a Hau-suit would be kinda like a Shield spell from D&D 4e: It reacts immediately after being hit. Say it'd prevent the wearer from taking additional hits. We have a wearer attacked, has an attack glance off his armour, and then is practically invulnerable for the rest of the fight. Sounds reasonable to me.

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

     This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

For a disk's power to activate, you have to hit it against something. Masks work differently, as they are attached to the head (my theory is that you bypass the impact-trigger by being in close proximity to the users mental processor, or something like that.) So, while it could work as armor, you'd probably have to hit it for the power to activate.

So what would happen if a Toa was wearing Hau-armor and something hit it? If he was concentrating would the shield take effect soon enough to prevent the projectile from hurting him? Or would that armor be pretty much useless in terms of Kanoka powers?

 

If that were the case, then they'd have to bump their own chest really hard with their fist. They could do that at the beginning of a fight and let it last for a minute or two, pull away from their opponent (if the fight lasts that long), hit the armor again, and then resume fighting. Of course, if that's the case, then they'd be best-served by just wearing a Hau. I figure if it's that intense, they won't be able to focus on a mask as much otherwise. Why expend excess energy focusing on two powered objects when you have your elemental powers and a Kanohi at your disposal?

[Mjolnitor]

 

Why expend excess energy focusing on two powered objects when you have your elemental powers and a Kanohi at your disposal?

 

To gain benefits from both of them, indeed.

[fishers64]

     This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

I think the Conjuring, Elda and Calix disks would just temporarily grant the abilities of the corresponding mask to the target. Mohtrek I think would just summon a past version of someone, yeah. "Hi, past me."

 

Conjuring could also work as this: you tap the disk and speak the power into it, then you launch it and the power you speak triggers on impact. For example, if you speak fire to a conjuring disk and launch it, your target will be engulfed in flames. 

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

Why expend excess energy focusing on two powered objects when you have your elemental powers and a Kanohi at your disposal?

 

To gain benefits from both of them, indeed.

 

Look at it this way:

-Fighting with a sword/axe/club/whatever

-Elemental power

-Mask

-Energized armor

-Oh, and avoiding attacks from your enemy while...

-Trying to defeat said opponent.

 

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a lot to deal with during the course of a battle. It would help to have something like that as a back-up, though, in the event that you were disarmed or drained of elemental power, but I wouldn't try to rely on it too often.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Man some really great questions coming up lately. I've never really thought about these details, but now that I've heard the possibility of it suggested I wish we could have seen it utilized in the story.

 

-NotS

[LegoSWfan]

This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

You certainly don't want to throw kanoka of regeneration at your enemy!

[Zeb]

 

     This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

I think the Conjuring, Elda and Calix disks would just temporarily grant the abilities of the corresponding mask to the target. Mohtrek I think would just summon a past version of someone, yeah. "Hi, past me."

 

Conjuring could also work as this: you tap the disk and speak the power into it, then you launch it and the power you speak triggers on impact. For example, if you speak fire to a conjuring disk and launch it, your target will be engulfed in flames. 

 

Conjuring Kanoka would be very useful.

 

 

This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

You certainly don't want to throw kanoka of regeneration at your enemy!

 

You wouldn't want to throw a Kanoka of Shielding at your enemy either...

[LegoSWfan]

No, that's just asking for trouble!

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

     This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

I think the Conjuring, Elda and Calix disks would just temporarily grant the abilities of the corresponding mask to the target. Mohtrek I think would just summon a past version of someone, yeah. "Hi, past me."

 

Conjuring could also work as this: you tap the disk and speak the power into it, then you launch it and the power you speak triggers on impact. For example, if you speak fire to a conjuring disk and launch it, your target will be engulfed in flames. 

 

Conjuring Kanoka would be very useful.

 

 

This also brings up the question of just what some Kanoka disks even do. What happens if you hit someone with an Elda disk, for example? Or a Calix? Would a Mohtrek disk summon a past version of whatever it hits? What about the a Disk of Conjuring? A lot of the powers really don't make sense in Kanoka.

You certainly don't want to throw kanoka of regeneration at your enemy!

 

You wouldn't want to throw a Kanoka of Shielding at your enemy either...

 

For Conjuring, remember that you also need to set limitations for it, or else you suffer mental backlash. Not limiting the power of the disk might make it explode in your face. So, this can be both good and bad.

 

Throwing a disk of regeneration or shielding at an ally would be good, though. Your friend gets wounded, so when you have a spare moment, you fire a regeneration or healing disk at them and heal them from a distance. Same with shielding. Help from afar!

[N.S.M.8]

I assumed that the nature of them is that they will only work in those two forms. The great beings would probably do this so that they cant create anything too powerful. And remember, you can only use masks of power if you are a toa or turaga, and it will only work if it is worn as a mask (except the mask of elemental energy, but that's an odd one).

The Great Beings did not create the Kanoka, the Matoran did.  Before that a different process was used to create Kanohi.

 

As somebody else already mentioned this is already canon with the Kanoka Blade, but there is also the Devastator.

 

If a 156 (Ta, Enlarges)  and a 578 (Le, Regenerates) where merged in Ga-Metru, by a Po-Matoran, to create a Kanoka of Shielding, what properties would it have? Would the disk have the flight properties of a Ta, Le, Ga, or Po disk, or would it be a mix, and a mix of which? What would its power level be? Would it be the lowest value (6), the highest (8), or the average of the powers (7)?

I believe that it would be a disk's power would be a mix of all three powers but would default to the lowest power level. The disk of Time shows us that the flight properties would depend on who merges the disk.

 

 

[Mjolnitor]

What if an impact isn't the only way to activate disk's powers?

For example, http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Vortixx_Rhotuka_Battle_Axe

 

The handle of the axe contains levitation weights, which are manufactured from levitation Kanoka disks, and as such the weight of the axe can be adjusted by removing or adding them.

 

No need of hitting these weights, they just work.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Mjolnitor

[The 1st Shadow]

What if an impact isn't the only way to activate disk's powers?

For example, http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Vortixx_Rhotuka_Battle_Axe

 

The handle of the axe contains levitation weights, which are manufactured from levitation Kanoka disks, and as such the weight of the axe can be adjusted by removing or adding them.

 

No need of hitting these weights, they just work.

Really, now? Does it say HOW they work? There could be a mechanism inside the weapon that strikes the weights and activates it. Like the hammer of a gun.

 

The knowledge towers were said to be fitted with regeneration kanoka. If there was damage to the structure, one would pull a chord or something like that, which would trigger an impact on the surface of the disk, thus activating it.

Edited December 15, 2014 by ~T1S~

[Mjolnitor]

Really, now? Does it say HOW they work? There could be a mechanism inside the weapon that strikes the weights and activates it. Like the hammer of a gun.

But if you gonna add more weights, you're gonna need an overcomplicated striking mechanism.

 

Also, aforementioned kanoka blades and http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Energy_Siphon_Blade - no need of striking 'em mentioned.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Really, now? Does it say HOW they work? There could be a mechanism inside the weapon that strikes the weights and activates it. Like the hammer of a gun.

But if you gonna add more weights, you're gonna need an overcomplicated striking mechanism.

 

Also, aforementioned kanoka blades and http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Energy_Siphon_Blade - no need of striking 'em mentioned.

 

So, you read the whole article? Including the "Energy Siphon Blade is Semi-Canon" notice up at the top? The weapons designed for a contest were not meant to be taken as actual, serious canon.

 

EDIT: and I quote the Trivia section:

 Book author Greg Farshtey has stated that only the functionality of the blade is canon; the weapon's storyline aspect has been retained in the article solely to show the entry in its entirety.

 

Edited December 15, 2014 by ~T1S~

[LegoSWfan]

Airships move by kanoka.

[The 1st Shadow]

Airships move by kanoka.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Airship#Features Good call!

 

Or, I'll quote the relevant info here:

Airships utilized a complicated system of levitation and weight increase Kanoka Disks. A Matoran pilot controlled pulleys that caused either the levitation or the weight increase Kanoka Disks to strike the Airship's framework, causing the Airship either to rise or to fall.

 

Edited December 15, 2014 by ~T1S~

[LegoSWfan]

This adds weight to the "must me struck" activation of kanoka.

[The 1st Shadow]

This adds weight to the "must me struck" activation of kanoka.

Wait, were you agreeing with my statement? Terribly sorry. I thought you were using that as an example for the "doesn't need impact" idea. But thank you for bringing it up. I'd almost forgotten about the airships, to be honest.

[LegoSWfan]

Yes I was agreeing.

 

Your welcome.

[Mjolnitor]

So, you read the whole article? Including the "Energy Siphon Blade is Semi-Canon" notice up at the top? The weapons designed for a contest were not meant to be taken as actual, serious canon.

But still kanoka blade. No "is semi-canon" notice in its article, also stated that its functions are activated via exertion of will.

So, there are at least some items made of disks that don't require hitting (with) them.

[Regitnui]

I think we have ample proof that kanoka-made items can be activated like Kanohi. But like kanohi, a matoran wouldn't be able to activate one of these devices, and so must resort to the impact method.

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

The Kanoka Blade must only be impact- or thought-activated, not both. Otherwise hitting a Kanohi would activate it.

[Ranaki_Pakewa]

The Kanoka Blade must only be impact- or thought-activated, not both. Otherwise hitting a Kanohi would activate it.

Didn't Mata Nui's Kanohi activate when the stinger touched it and turned into a sword, or when Click gained the ability to turn into a shield? I don't know it that only works with the Ignika, but I think it is worth a mention.

[Zeb]

 

The Kanoka Blade must only be impact- or thought-activated, not both. Otherwise hitting a Kanohi would activate it.

Didn't Mata Nui's Kanohi activate when the stinger touched it and turned into a sword, or when Click gained the ability to turn into a shield? I don't know it that only works with the Ignika, but I think it is worth a mention.

 

A lot of things have happened when people got near the Ignika. It has a mind of its own, and I don't think it's the best example of how normal masks work. Though it would be funny if a Matoran could use any Kanohi's power buy bonking themselves on the head with it.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

So, you read the whole article? Including the "Energy Siphon Blade is Semi-Canon" notice up at the top? The weapons designed for a contest were not meant to be taken as actual, serious canon.

But still kanoka blade. No "is semi-canon" notice in its article, also stated that its functions are activated via exertion of will.

So, there are at least some items made of disks that don't require hitting (with) them.

 

Correct, but, again, please actually read the article.

 

The weapon is forged from Kanoka in a similar fashion to Kanohi, granting it certain powers. However, the Kanoka used, and thus the powers, are limited to the disks used in the creation of Kanohi. Much like a Kanohi, the Kanoka Blade also requires a certain amount of willpower for the power to be used, and therefore only beings capable of activating a Kanohi can use the blade's power. Also similar to a Kanohi, the Kanoka Blade's power cannot be changed from what it was originally forged as. If damaged, the blade could malfunction or cease to work at all.

 

Essentially, the blade is a Kanohi, no longer considered a disk. All of its properties and activation requirements are those of a mask, not a disk. So, not a good example.

[LegoSWfan]

Do we even know how big kanoka are, in human terms?

[The 1st Shadow]

Do we even know how big kanoka are, in human terms?

No. There's a lot of things we don't have measurements for. 

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

     Well, in-story a Toa is 1.6 bio tall. That corresponds to 2.192 meters. A set form Toa Metru is about 21 cm tall, and a set form Kanoka is 4 cm in diameter, so a Kanoka's diameter is 4/21 of a Toa's height. 4/21 of 2.192 meters is 0.4175 meters, or about 41 cm. That's a little larger than a large pizza. So, actually quite large, assuming my calculations are correct (and I've double checked them, so yeah) and set Kanoka are canonically proportional to set Toa Metru, which we can assume.

[The 1st Shadow]

     Well, in-story a Toa is 1.6 bio tall. That corresponds to 2.192 meters. A set form Toa Metru is about 21 cm tall, and a set form Kanoka is 4 cm in diameter, so a Kanoka's diameter is 4/21 of a Toa's height. 4/21 of 2.192 meters is 0.4175 meters, or about 41 cm. That's a little larger than a large pizza. So, actually quite large, assuming my calculations are correct (and I've double checked them, so yeah) and set Kanoka are canonically proportional to set Toa Metru, which we can assume.

Keep in mind that some aspects of the sets are designed that way for functionality during play.

 

However, I agree with you for one in-story reason: Kanohi. Since Kanohi on Metru Nui are forged from disks, it would make sense that there be enough material to be shaped around a being's head while retaining shape and structure.