Should Tahu keep his Kraata powers?

[Lenny7092]

Hi, guys. I studied the Golden Armor, the very collection of armor pieces that Tahu Mata used to destroy an army of Rahkshi in Bionicle’s 2010 story arc. After the destruction of the Rahkshi, the armor gave Tahu Mata powers of the Rahkshi. He removed the armor, according to Greg Farshtey.
 

In the armor’s BS01 page, it says two confusing things, which were said by Greg. One said that the armor gave the Tahu the powers by putting them inside his body. The other, which came after the first one, said that Tahu does not have the powers, and he needs the armor to have the powers again, implying that the armor still has the Kraata powers. 
 

So, do you guys prefer the first thing or the second thing? For me, the second one because I don’t want Tahu to be more powerful than himself as a Toa Nuva. I’m working on a fan fic where Mata Nui will use the Mask of Life to turn Tahu back into a Toa Nuva.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Lenny7092
Pronoun correction.

[Master Inika]

I picked the first option, just because I think it makes more sense for the Great Beings to make armor that grants the user specifically the powers permanently. Otherwise, the choice to take the armor off would be a pretty major one.

[confused piraka]

greg said, that if the story would continue, he would have found a way to take them from tahu. I'm assuming that the powers are part of the armor because it's like a upgrade.

Edited December 2, 2023 by confused piraka

[TERIDAX941]

I would have preferred they stay with the armor *AND* that Tahu keeps the armor on. If he's going to be nerfed by becoming a normal Toa again, I'd want him to keep his special armor that only he was destined to wear.

[Xboxtravis]

6 hours ago, Master Inika said:

I picked the first option, just because I think it makes more sense for the Great Beings to make armor that grants the user specifically the powers permanently. Otherwise, the choice to take the armor off would be a pretty major one.

I checked BioSector01, and sure enough there is a small footnote linking to a "Chat with Greg" saying Tahu did abandon the armor eventually which while I agree with you it was a major choice, it seems funny it's just another casual "Greg said on the forum chat" tidbit in the Bionicle lore. 

[Nato G]

I think the powers being contained in the armour lines up more with what's been established in past lore.

Based on Iden/bodyswap examples, we know that a being's powers are determined by both the "software" of their spirit and the "hardware" of their physical body. Two Toa could use Idens to swap bodies and still use their original powers, but when Tren Krom swapped minds with Lewa he couldn't use a lot of his powers because a Toa body doesn't have the ability to use those powers. Similarly, we know Makuta normally lose access to a bunch of their Kraata abilities when they possess a mechanical body, again due to the hardware being incompatible.  

Based on those examples, for Tahu to have the Kraata powers himself would mean he's been physically altered or mutated in some way by the experience (and potentially somehow infected with antidermis as a result). The powers being contained in the armour would be simpler, continue Bionicle's trend of important macguffins, and would make it easier to execute Greg's intention to have Tahu eventually lose access to the abilities. 

[Master Inika]

GALI: You look terrible, brother.

KOPAKA: I had a poor sleep last night.

TAHU: ...

KOPAKA: If only one of us at some point in time acquired the power to make people immediately and deeply fall asleep by wearing a certain suit of armor.

TAHU: I SAID I'M SORRY

KOPAKA: Because they would sure be stupid to ever remove said armor

[confused piraka]

so that's how Mata Nui fell asleep. Tahu dropped the vahi in energized protodermis, went back in time and tried to put his nemesis kopaka to sleep once and for all

[Xboxtravis]

On 12/2/2023 at 9:14 PM, Master Inika said:

GALI: You look terrible, brother.

KOPAKA: I had a poor sleep last night.

TAHU: ...

KOPAKA: If only one of us at some point in time acquired the power to make people immediately and deeply fall asleep by wearing a certain suit of armor.

TAHU: I SAID I'M SORRY

KOPAKA: Because they would sure be stupid to ever remove said armor

Incorrect, Kopaka would just silently suffer with insomnia and never ask for help while silently judging Tahu. 🤣

Lewa would be begging for sleep help, Pohatu would appreciate it, Onua doesn't need it because he sleeps just fine, and Gali would say she prefers to read a book, watch ASMR videos and drink some herbal tea instead. 

[confused piraka]

19 hours ago, Xboxtravis said:

Incorrect, Kopaka would just silently suffer with insomnia and never ask for help while silently judging Tahu. 🤣

Lewa would be begging for sleep help, Pohatu would appreciate it, Onua doesn't need it because he sleeps just fine, and Gali would say she prefers to read a book, watch ASMR videos and drink some herbal tea instead. 

what would vezon do

[(-Kopaka Toa of Ice-)]

Personally i would want him to trade in those kraata powers and just be a Toa Nuva again. They were/are a team. Either all of them should stay as 6 nuva, 6 mata or 6 turaga. Not a odd one out. The only major odd one out is Matoro (he was sacrificed)

But since Mata Nui is safe inside the mask of life. Maybe let Matoro be reborn too ?

[Nato G]

27 minutes ago, (-Kopaka Toa of Ice-) said:

Maybe let Matoro be reborn too ?

No. 

Matoro is gone, body and soul.

By all of the established rules of Bionicle, there's nothing left of him to resurrect or revive. 

I don't understand this obsession so many fans seem to have with undoing the one truly meaningful sacrifice in the entire storyline. Matoro's death is supposed to be permanent, to show the price and pain of heroism. It's meant to be tragic, and unfair, and sad. 

[Xboxtravis]

On 12/18/2023 at 3:20 PM, Nato G said:

No. 

Matoro is gone, body and soul.

By all of the established rules of Bionicle, there's nothing left of him to resurrect or revive. 

I don't understand this obsession so many fans seem to have with undoing the one truly meaningful sacrifice in the entire storyline. Matoro's death is supposed to be permanent, to show the price and pain of heroism. It's meant to be tragic, and unfair, and sad. 

It's a literary thing, people tend to like messianic figures to come back from the dead for literature reasons going back several thousand years. It's not like there aren't other heroic sacrifices in media recently that seem to be permanent and "not being reversed" like Tony Stark in the Avengers movies, but for the most part people tend to have big heroic figures who die like Matoro come back to life. Harry Potter does it at the end of the final book, Gandalf returns from falling down the Mines of Moria, Obi-Wan returns as a Force ghost after sacrificing himself in his duel against Vader, Spock is revived on the Genesis planet in a new body which eventually reunites with his original soul, Sherlock Holmes faked his death in his fight against Moriarty on Reichenbach Falls and eventually returned after some time assumed dead, etc. 

So Matoro is either the greatest subversion because it showcases the cost of heroic sacrifices in a realistic measure, or a constant frustrating plot choice that breaks a strong literature trope. I think the problem lies in the introduction of the Red Star, if all Bionicle characters were assumed dead then Matoro wouldn't feel to out of place. When we find out that Lhiikan, etc. have been chilling up on the Red Star very much alive since their "death" it makes Greg feel capricious and cruel towards Matoro, that in a massive sea of "alive again" characters that the one who by all literary expectations should be the one alive again is the one who is "very very very dead." The rules feel arbitrary and like Greg wanted to have his cake and eat it to by keeping Matoro dead while bringing everybody else back to life. 

[Nato G]

3 hours ago, Xboxtravis said:

It's a literary thing, people tend to like messianic figures to come back from the dead for literature reasons going back several thousand years.

Heroic sacrifices being permanent is also a well-established thing, though. I'd argue it's even more common than characters getting to come back to life, even within the genres where such technology or magic could feasibly exist. 

3 hours ago, Xboxtravis said:

The rules feel arbitrary and like Greg wanted to have his cake and eat it to by keeping Matoro dead while bringing everybody else back to life. 

While I agree that the Red Star is problematic and cheapens a lot of past deaths, I wouldn't say the rules are arbitrary at all. No body = no resurrection is a pretty straightforward requirement, one that's common to resurrection mechanics in other literature and franchises as well. 

In a setting where resurrection exists, death can become cheap and meaningless if it's not handled properly. There has to be a cost for sacrifice and loss to be meaningful, for the story to have stakes. Especially when the sacrifice in question is being made to cause a resurrection, like in Matoro's case. Especially given that Matoro himself had already died and been restored once before. 

[Xboxtravis]

28 minutes ago, Nato G said:

Especially when the sacrifice in question is being made to cause a resurrection, like in Matoro's case. Especially given that Matoro himself had already died and been restored once before. 

Oh my, I had forgotten that was a thing that totally happened in the story already. The books were wild. 😅

[Master Inika]

7 hours ago, Xboxtravis said:

Oh my, I had forgotten that was a thing that totally happened in the story already. The books were wild. 😅

I personally loved Matoro's first "death" in the books and thought it was one of the best scenes. I personally read it as not a true death/resurrection but rather an illusion by the chamber.

[Phovos]

I think having the Kraata powers stay in the armour is probably best for Tahu and his sanity. Kraata powers can be pretty twisted, and he doesn't need that all the time.