Real Reason Mata Nui Was Dying

[YoYoFantaFanta]

We all know how Mata Nui was dying and the Toa Mahri saved his life. The reason we are most commonly given is that his coma led to him almost dying. This would make sense, as normal people commonly die after being in a coma for too long.

 

However, I think there is an alternative reason why.

 

Metru Nui is the most vital spot in the MU. Without people working in the MU, Mata Nui will die. The Toa Metru evacuated the Metru Nui Matoran to the island of Mata Nui outside of the MU because of the damage the Visorak left behind. They lived for a millenia on Mata Nui and when they return to Metru Nui, they find out that Mata Nui is dying. I think Mata Nui was dying because the Metru Nui citizens evacuated Metru Nui, and no one was working there. With no one working in the most vital spot of the MU, Mata Nui started to die.

 

Feel free to edit my theory and note my mistakes. Thank you.

[Canis Lycaon]

Uh, that is exactly why Mata Nui started to die, not because he was in a coma.

[ToaN]

Uh, that is exactly why Mata Nui started to die, not because he was in a coma.

 

According to BS01:

 

The long time spent in a coma had caused Mata Nui's condition to worsen, and he was on the brink of death.

 

It would seem the official canon was that the coma was causing Mata Nui to die. YoYoFantaFanta's theory makes more sense. Mata Nui fell ill during the Matoran Civil War as well, when work in Metru Nui ceased.

 

If only the matoran had returned to Metru Nui a couple hundred years earlier...

[Hitoshura]

Maybe the virus was starting to affect his mind as well? There could be multiple ways Mata Nui could've been dying, just one more noticeable than the other(s).

[Chro]

Huh. I'm with Canis here, I always thought it was both the coma and the lack of support to keep him awake/alive.

[LordofBionicles]

I wonder where and how did Makuta Teridax use the virus to infect Mata Nui, that must be an interesting story!!

[The Lorax]

Relax people, there's no contradiction here. YoFanta's theory is (at least partly) canon already.

 

The virus that Teridax used was intended to put MN to sleep, not to kill him. It did this, and no more.

 

However, things didn't go entirely to plan, which lead to huge damage to the city of legends and the Matoran being taken away. This was (canonically) a big contributor to Mata Nui's death. If Teridax had got his claws on the vahi right after the Great Cataclysm, used it on the Matoran in their spheres, and declared himself their god and ruler, Mata Nui would have stayed asleep forever, but never actually died.

 

As it happened, Mata Nui got hit with more than just the virus. Almost all activity in his brain shut down for a thousand years, and it also got invaded by visorak. This damage went over and beyond the Makutas' carefully calculated plans, and pushed the Great Spirit beyond what would have been a stable coma into a degenerating one, which eventually lead to his death.

 

So yes, it was the coma had a lot to do with it, and certainly helped the process, but the lack of Matoran working in Metru Nui had a strong part in it as well. Neither would have killed him without the other, so you could say that both were jointly responsible.

[Toatapio Nuva]

Don't forget that Mata Nui WANTED the Toa Metru to evacuate the Matoran. I doubt this evacuation thus caused Mata Nui to start dying. It was more than just Metru Nui - his whole body was fractured.

 

Imagine falling from space and crashing on a planet. Get my point?

 

Also, Makuta WANTED Mata Nui to die, since that was the time he would replace his spirit. He just wanted to make sure someone brought the MU to life quickly after that.

[The Lorax]

Not originally. Teridax's original plan was just to put Mata Nui to sleep, wipe the Matorans' memories and then wake them up to rule over them. It wasn't until after the Great Cataclysm that he redesigned his plan to include Mata Nui's death and his taking over the robot body.

[Toatapio Nuva]

In that case it makes sense why Makuta waited exactly 1000 years before letting the Matoran return to Metru Nui. He wanted Mata Nui's death to start happening from that point.

 

Then again, I'm still saying that Mata Nui gave Vakama the vision that told him to evacuate the Matoran. If it caused his dying, why would he do that?

[bonesiii]

In that case it makes sense why Makuta waited exactly 1000 years before letting the Matoran return to Metru Nui. He wanted Mata Nui's death to start happening from that point.

 

Then again, I'm still saying that Mata Nui gave Vakama the vision that told him to evacuate the Matoran. If it caused his dying, why would he do that?

I'm not sure where Vakama's visions come from, but they returned a thousand years later just because that's when Takua happened to collect the Toa stones that summoned the canisters, or so I thought. Of course, maybe Makuta did something to inspire that (as he would need the Toa), but I don't recall that being confirmed.

[Makuta Almanax]

I think the 'ejection' of Voya Nui and the damage it caused to Karda Nui also played a bit of a major role in his death. Metru Nui caused severe damage but don't forget that once he fell asleep he also had an endless waterfall of seawater pouring into his heart. That can't be good for him, especially since those energy storms that were like a pulse died down as well.

[Toatapio Nuva]

I think the 'ejection' of Voya Nui and the damage it caused to Karda Nui also played a bit of a major role in his death. Metru Nui caused severe damage but don't forget that once he fell asleep he also had an endless waterfall of seawater pouring into his heart. That can't be good for him, especially since those energy storms that were like a pulse died down as well.

 

Exaclty. I think Mata Nui dying was the result of many actors. After all, he slammed with tremendous force on a planet (probably the water blunted it just enough for him to not die outright). His brain was damaged, invaded and abandoned. His heart had a hole tore into it and water began to fill it. It's all pretty much for a being. I'm surprised he held on as long as he did.

 

 

In that case it makes sense why Makuta waited exactly 1000 years before letting the Matoran return to Metru Nui. He wanted Mata Nui's death to start happening from that point.

 

Then again, I'm still saying that Mata Nui gave Vakama the vision that told him to evacuate the Matoran. If it caused his dying, why would he do that?

I'm not sure where Vakama's visions come from, but they returned a thousand years later just because that's when Takua happened to collect the Toa stones that summoned the canisters, or so I thought. Of course, maybe Makuta did something to inspire that (as he would need the Toa), but I don't recall that being confirmed.

 

I think this was discussed in the old forums once. I have this vague memory of someone stating that even if Takua had not summonned the Toa, Makuta still would have let the Matoran return to Metru Nui at that specific time - perhaps by making his infected Rahi even force them in if thye otherwise did not abide. It might've even been Greg who said this in the Q&A topic, but I'm not sure about that. Could've been just speculation.

 

Still, it is an odd coincidence that Takua happened to summon the Toa at that time... though it was still too early for Makuta's plans, so maybe it's not that far-fetched. If the time had been right when the Toa Mata first confronted him, Makuta would have let them open the gate to Metru Nui (I have no idea how they would have done that) and guide the Matoran to Metru Nui. Basically, the whole Bohrok saga would never have happened, or the Rahkshi for that matter.

[bonesiii]

Still, it is an odd coincidence that Takua happened to summon the Toa at that time... though it was still too early for Makuta's plans, so maybe it's not that far-fetched. If the time had been right when the Toa Mata first confronted him, Makuta would have let them open the gate to Metru Nui (I have no idea how they would have done that) and guide the Matoran to Metru Nui.

Interesting thoughts. Maybe he would have drawn attention to he door during the battle (was it even the same chamber? I forget, but if not, he would have been in the MOL chamber), and then NOT teleported them up to the surface as he did. They would be left to look around and think of trying their powers on the door (Pohatu should be able to handle that easily by commanding its stone to move aside, or at least Tahu melting it, I'd think).

[Toatapio Nuva]

Yet, if Tahu or Pohatu could destroy the door, why have Takutanuva pulling it up in the first place? I know he kinda just did it without asking, but it still seems weird. The material of the door might be some stronger kind of protodermis...

Edited May 9, 2013 by Toatapio Nuva

[Makuta Almanax]

Precisely what I was thinking when Bonesii mentioned that. It seems that Takutanuva, or in the very least another similarly-strong being, would be needed to open that gate. Although, this begs the question of what and how exactly Teridax planned to return the Matoran to Metru Nui had everything on Mata Nui gone as planned. I highly doubt he has the energy to teleport all the Matoran to the other side, so would he have created some new Rahi to do the trick?

[bonesiii]

Considering it shattered into rubble, I doubt it. More likely Makuta was improvising due to the unexpected fusion, and realized Takanuva wanted to open the door, so allowed it, knowing it would provide an excuse to once again fake a defeat.

 

Edit: Actually, he could have teleported them, come to think of it. One by one and taking breaks at least, but whether he WOULD do that as if might make it too obviously not what a villain trying to stop them would do is more questionable.

Edited May 9, 2013 by bonesiii

[Makuta Almanax]

When did it shatter? I must have missed that part. I was aware that Takutanuva opened it until all the Matoran had passed through and was weakened upon using his life-force powers to bring Jaller back, causing him to de-fuse as the gate crashed down on him - something which also split his mask into two. I'm reading this from BS01 as I type.

[Toatapio Nuva]

The door smashed because it was so heavy a dropped down from high above. There are many things in our world that you can break by throwing them against the floor but which would be near impossible to break by hand.

 

And didn't the minds of Takanuva and Makuta fuse in Takutanuva? They were not two separate minds then, so Makuta couldn't have "allowed" Takanuva to do... his thing.

 

EDIT: @Makuta Almanax: The door was told to have shattered in the novelization of the movie and was later featured in Legacy of Evil when the Piraka were going through Makuta's stuff.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Toatapio Nuva

[bonesiii]

It was only dropped from around ten to twenty feet, actually, showing it to be quite brittle. The problem was that it was so heavy. And in any case, Pohatu could have made a big boulder to make the same effect.

 

Also, just because Takutanuva did open it doesn't mean that it took him to do so in the sense that the Toa Nuva couldn't have, just to be clear. And like I said, Tahu could melt it, at the very least, if there was no other way.

And didn't the minds of Takanuva and Makuta fuse in Takutanuva? They were not two separate minds then, so Makuta couldn't have "allowed" Takanuva to do... his thing.

What do you mean? Why not?

[ToaN]

When did it shatter? I must have missed that part. I was aware that Takutanuva opened it until all the Matoran had passed through and was weakened upon using his life-force powers to bring Jaller back, causing him to de-fuse as the gate crashed down on him - something which also split his mask into two. I'm reading this from BS01 as I type.

 

It was mentioned in Legends 4 "Legacy of Evil": when the Piraka found Teridax's lair, the door was smashed into rubble.

[Toatapio Nuva]

It was only dropped from around ten to twenty feet, actually, showing it to be quite brittle. The problem was that it was so heavy. And in any case, Pohatu could have made a big boulder to make the same effect.

 

Also, just because Takutanuva did open it doesn't mean that it took him to do so in the sense that the Toa Nuva couldn't have, just to be clear. And like I said, Tahu could melt it, at the very least, if there was no other way.

And didn't the minds of Takanuva and Makuta fuse in Takutanuva? They were not two separate minds then, so Makuta couldn't have "allowed" Takanuva to do... his thing.

What do you mean? Why not?

 

Well, that might certainly be the case, depending on what the door was made from. Has Greg given us any info on whether the door was simply solid protodermis or something sturdier?

 

And the mind thing, I meant that two minds had become one, so Takanuva and Makuta didn't have separate personalities and thoughts at that moment. They became one as much in psyche as in body. Right?

[bonesiii]

Off the top of my head, all I know is that I have presumed it was stone (due to its brittleness), but whether that was confirmed or not I don't recall.

 

I believe Greg described it as Takanuva's mind (as far as he knew) exerting more influence over Makuta's, and regardless, Takanuva didn't walk away knowing The Plan, so what I said is possible.

[slifer3000]

I wonder where and how did Makuta Teridax use the virus to infect Mata Nui, that must be an interesting story!!

The virus was inserted in the brain of the MU, deep deep behind Metru Nui. At least, I think that's where it was. It was described that when the MU was hit in the head when Teri was dueling Mata, Makuta's antidermis itself was incinerated by the heat of the meteor. That means that was where his essence itself was, and likely where the virus was also planted.

[Sir Kohran]

Although, this begs the question of what and how exactly Teridax planned to return the Matoran to Metru Nui had everything on Mata Nui gone as planned. I highly doubt he has the energy to teleport all the Matoran to the other side, so would he have created some new Rahi to do the trick?

 

Out of interest, exactly what happened on Mata Nui that didn't go with his plan? The arrival of the Toa?

[fishers64]

5.- If Teridax had succeded in conquering Metru Nui then what would he have done when the great spirit died? 5) At the time Teridax was trying to conquer Metru Nui, he didn’t know Mata Nui was going to die. All he had done was put him to sleep. 5.-but Mata Nui wasn´t only sleeping, he was dying so if Makuta had conquered Metru-Nui he would someday discover that his brother was dying don´t you think? 5) But Makuta did not know that. It was 1000 years after Mata Nui was put to sleep that anyone figured out he was dying.

So let me blow the 1000 years timing myth. Obviously, if Makuta didn't know that Mata Nui was dying, he could not have timed the return to prevent the death. To further clarify:

3)in the plan did teridax predict mata nui dieing and matoro useing the ignika? 3) He knew Mata Nui dying was a possibility. He did not know which Toa would be destined to use the Ignika.

Also, the Toa, Turaga and Matoran had to get back to Mata Nui at the end of MoL. It's overtly possible that Pohatu destroyed that door in exactly the way bonesiii described in order to get back, which would explain the destroyed door. Or the Piraka could have busted it, although I'm pretty sure it was described as clearing rubble. And back to the orginal question:

3- Why was Mata Nui dying during the 06-07 saga? Because of the virus or that the metru-matoran hadn’t worked for a 1000 year? : A combination of multiple things, including the two you mentioned. 8. Over the past few months, I’ve been building up my understanding of the relationship between Karda Nui, Metru Nui, and the Great Spirit Mata Nui, partly from things you’ve said, partly from assumption. I think I’ve got it worked out, but I want to run this by you to see if I got it right: Karda Nui produces energy. This energy is then channeled, by as-yet unknown means, to Metru Nui. Some of this power goes into the majority of lightstones and makes them work; some of this power goes to other parts of the Matoran universe, where it fulfills some unknown purpose. And some goes to Mata Nui. The energy is vital to Mata Nui; my theory is that it’s his version of food energy, like what the Matoran absorb from their meals. Without it, he eventually starves to death. Or perhaps it’s the source of his keep-the-universe-running power. Either way, as long as the Matoran in Metru Nui do their work, the energy flow stays nice and smooth. But if they stop working, like if a civil war breaks out or they get stuffed into induced-coma pods, then the current stops. And then bad stuff happens. Like lightstones going out. A massive earthquake. And Mata Nui dying. Am I close? 8) You are 99% of the way there. Things like the earthquake and the dying are indirect results of the energy flow stopping, but they are connected to it, most definitely. Here’s another way think of it -- think of Karda Nui as a big power generating station, and Metru Nui is a routing station. The power goes from KN to the MN, where it then gets routed to other places it needs to go. If no one is working the routing station, the power doesn’t get sent out, and the other places go dark. If enough places go dark, then you have a major blackout and all the attendant problems that come with that.

So it's still an open question, but both the Matoran's absence, the lack of energy from Karda Nui, and the virus were all factors involved.

Edited May 10, 2013 by fishers64

[toa kopaka4372]

 

5.- If Teridax had succeded in conquering Metru Nui then what would he have done when the great spirit died? 5) At the time Teridax was trying to conquer Metru Nui, he didn’t know Mata Nui was going to die. All he had done was put him to sleep. 5.-but Mata Nui wasn´t only sleeping, he was dying so if Makuta had conquered Metru-Nui he would someday discover that his brother was dying don´t you think? 5) But Makuta did not know that. It was 1000 years after Mata Nui was put to sleep that anyone figured out he was dying.

So let me blow the 1000 years timing myth. Obviously, if Makuta didn't know that Mata Nui was dying, he could not have timed the return to prevent the death. To further clarify:

>3)in the plan did teridax predict mata nui dieing and matoro useing the ignika? 3) He knew Mata Nui dying was a possibility. He did not know which Toa would be destined to use the Ignika.

Also, the Toa, Turaga and Matoran had to get back to Mata Nui at the end of MoL. It's overtly possible that Pohatu destroyed that door in exactly the way bonesiii described in order to get back, which would explain the destroyed door. Or the Piraka could have busted it, although I'm pretty sure it was described as clearing rubble. And back to the orginal question:

3- Why was Mata Nui dying during the 06-07 saga? Because of the virus or that the metru-matoran hadn’t worked for a 1000 year? : A combination of multiple things, including the two you mentioned. 8. Over the past few months, I’ve been building up my understanding of the relationship between Karda Nui, Metru Nui, and the Great Spirit Mata Nui, partly from things you’ve said, partly from assumption. I think I’ve got it worked out, but I want to run this by you to see if I got it right: Karda Nui produces energy. This energy is then channeled, by as-yet unknown means, to Metru Nui. Some of this power goes into the majority of lightstones and makes them work; some of this power goes to other parts of the Matoran universe, where it fulfills some unknown purpose. And some goes to Mata Nui. The energy is vital to Mata Nui; my theory is that it’s his version of food energy, like what the Matoran absorb from their meals. Without it, he eventually starves to death. Or perhaps it’s the source of his keep-the-universe-running power. Either way, as long as the Matoran in Metru Nui do their work, the energy flow stays nice and smooth. But if they stop working, like if a civil war breaks out or they get stuffed into induced-coma pods, then the current stops. And then bad stuff happens. Like lightstones going out. A massive earthquake. And Mata Nui dying. Am I close? 8) You are 99% of the way there. Things like the earthquake and the dying are indirect results of the energy flow stopping, but they are connected to it, most definitely. Here’s another way think of it -- think of Karda Nui as a big power generating station, and Metru Nui is a routing station. The power goes from KN to the MN, where it then gets routed to other places it needs to go. If no one is working the routing station, the power doesn’t get sent out, and the other places go dark. If enough places go dark, then you have a major blackout and all the attendant problems that come with that.

So it's still an open question, but both the Matoran's absence, the lack of energy from Karda Nui, and the virus were all factors involved.

 

Well, Teridax may not have known that Mata Nui was dying until later, but he definitely was prepared for the possibility; I think Legacy of Evil made that clear enough. Teridax's Plan was composed of hundreds of different courses of actions depending on what happens, so when he learned of Mata Nui's death he was prepared. Although... yeah, that doesn't change the fact that he probably didn't time the Toa Mata's arrival.

 

Never mind then