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Mask of Creation's Lack of Name


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#1 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 09:02 AM

So, it bugs me that so many masks have Bionicle names (like Hau) yet others don't. For most, this isn't really a big deal -- there could be thousands of established mask shapes in the Matoran Universe, and we simply could not learn all of them or their names. But what about the three Legendary Masks?

 

For my retelling, I have been purposefully avoiding all such names since they're missing for so many and I don't want to overcomplicate things for people new to Bionicle, but I've realized "Mask of Life" is getting old in the Voya-Mahri-Karda arc, and the Ignika actually becomes a character so it would make sense to finally reveal in-story that masks have names like this.

That got me thinking that we have names for the Ignika and the Vahi, yet the Mask of Creation is unnamed.

 

And then that got me thinking to all those times when back in the days of the Story Squad or Greg's earlier canonizations of fan suggestions, people had thought of going back to the original map of Mata Nui and suggesting the remaining words there as names. I have no idea if Greg would still be open to this now -- we could, theoretically, still run a poll and ask on LEGO.com. But I'm just curious more for headcanon's sake.

 

So, I decided to look at what the remaining names on the map mean in Maori, and ask yall your thoughts. Like the idea? At least for headcanon? Agree with my specific suggestion?

 

The one I thought would work best is Tiro (from Tiro canyon, in south Po-Wahi, where it meets east Onu-Wahi's surface, west Ga-Wahi and almost north Ko-Wahi). One of the meanings of tiro(hia) is "experiment", as in "We experimented with a new way to pack the fruit." That seems kinda similar to creating new things, no? Maybe the Matoran could name it that because perhaps Hafu would like to go there and carve statues or something instead of using the normal quarry stone.

 

Kanohi Tiro?

 

At first I liked the sound of Kanae, which has both a lake and a bay in Le-Wahi by the same name. I figured this would be important, to get two names. On the other hand, the Matoran probably don't actually know about the mask of creation, so this explanation would probably have to say they used the word itself, rather than naming it after a important mask. And in Maori it appears to only mean "gray mullet" lol.

 

Pala, which names another Le-Wahi lake, returns zero results, as did Fau. Fau could kinda work regardless, as the Le-Matoran live above it, and make things out of wood, growing from trees out of it, but seems looser, and IMO the similarity to "foul" and the attitude of the Le-Matoran for the swamp water makes that a far more likely meaning of it.

 

Kumu means a variety of things, all rather degrading, like "bottom" or "buttocks" lol. The word is probably an insult in Matoran, named perhaps from their encounters with the Rahi Hordika that settled there in their failed attempts to colonize it. So I doubt that would work, although you could perhaps say that they think of the odd Rahi as perhaps evidence of some twisted version of creating going on.

 

Huru, as in Huru-Mafa river, can mean blanket, brushwood, draw in (as "huru(a)"), part of "knitting" (whatu huru), and undergrowth. You could kinda argue it with knitting but it's silly. :P I have no idea what to think about the Matoran/Turaga's thinking in naming it.

 

Mafa got no results.

 

Neither did Motara, of the Motara desert, but not a place I'd think likely to be named after creating either. Except that it seems that the main Po quarry is in this desert.

 

Papa means so many things it's not worth even listing, but IMO it's best to avoid things that sound like English words with a completely other meaning. Kanohi Papa just sounds silly. :P To be fair, "drawing board" is one of them. But nah.

 

Nihu gets no results except as part of the word inihua (insurance). I'd say no.

 

Finally, Leva gets no results, and is too easy to confuse for Lewa IMO anyways.

 

Thoughts? If enough people like this idea I may at least use it for my retelling with a comment note that it's not canon. Kanohi Tiro, Mask of Creation?


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#2 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 02:30 PM

[color=#00ccff;]seeing as the story team didn't name the Ignika and Vahi after places from the island of Mata Nui, it doesn't really make sense to me for the Mask of Creation to be named (somewhat arbitrarily) in that way. but you know, using Maori words is a good idea--take the Bionicle naming system back to its roots, right? a word like 'auaha' ("to create") or 'hanga' ("to build") would seem like the obvious choice to me (i particularly like the first).[/color]


Edited by Arc, Nov 20 2013 - 02:31 PM.

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#3 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 02:40 PM

Just to add my opinion, I'd suggest a varitation of Nuva.

 

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#4 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 02:56 PM

I'm not sure I fully understand why it's just Mata Nui locations that are being used as options here. (Not saying I have any better ideas, though. :lol:)

Tiro sounds nice, especially compared to some of the others such as Papa and Fau.

 

I agree with Arc and like the suggestion of Kanohi Auaha.


Edited by Chro, Nov 20 2013 - 02:57 PM.

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#5 Offline Canis Lycaon

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 03:30 PM

I don't really like the idea of naming them after places in Mata Nui- the Ignika and Vahi had original names.

 

Also, the name of the Mask of Creation isn't something the Toa Metru would have known, so they wouldn't have named a landmark after it.


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#6 Offline fishers64

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 03:50 PM

I third the Kanohi Auaha rec. Not sure that the real-life meaning of "ignika" and "vahi" has anything to do with life and time, though (does it?) - I third on the basis of "it's a cool name." :P Tiro just sounds like some strength-oriented, less creation-like and brings to mind giant mechs and titans or something like that. 

 

EDIT: I looked up Vahi and Ignika. Vahi is Armenean for "one who is strong", although I suppose that has a relation to time. Ignika I could not find a suitable meaning for. 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]And then that got me thinking to all those times when back in the days of the Story Squad or Greg's earlier canonizations of fan suggestions, people had thought of going back to the original map of Mata Nui and suggesting the remaining words there as names. I have no idea if Greg would still be open to this now -- we [/color]could[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;], theoretically, still run a poll and ask on LEGO.com. But I'm just curious more for headcanon's sake.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I think this might clear up the "why the Mata Nui map?" thing. If they are already on the Mata Nui map, they are already cleared through Legal and would be easier to get them canonized as a mask name. But if we are just doing headcanon, it isn't relevant. And having such a name would be undesirable for many other reasons others pointed out. [/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Also, when I was doing hunts on the Mask of Creation for a new topic, I found many answers saying that Greg does not plan to name the Mask of Creation. So it would be better IMO if we just pushed the canonization thing aside. :shrugs: [/color]


Edited by fishers64, Nov 20 2013 - 04:38 PM.

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#7 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 03:57 PM

I third the Kanohi Auaha rec. Not sure that the real-life meaning of "ignika" and "vahi" has anything to do with life and time, though (does it?) - I third on the basis of "it's a cool name." :P Tiro just sounds like some strength-oriented, less creation-like and brings to mind giant mechs and titans or something like that. 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]And then that got me thinking to all those times when back in the days of the Story Squad or Greg's earlier canonizations of fan suggestions, people had thought of going back to the original map of Mata Nui and suggesting the remaining words there as names. I have no idea if Greg would still be open to this now -- we [/color]could[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;], theoretically, still run a poll and ask on LEGO.com. But I'm just curious more for headcanon's sake.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I think this might clear up the "why the Mata Nui map?" thing. If they are already on the Mata Nui map, they are already cleared through Legal and would be easier to get them canonized as a mask name. But if we are just doing headcanon, it isn't relevant. And having such a name would be undesirable for many other reasons others pointed out. [/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Also, when I was doing hunts on the Mask of Creation for a new topic, I found many answers saying that Greg does not plan to name the Mask of Creation. So it would be better IMO if we just pushed the canonization thing aside. :shrugs: [/color]

[color=#00ccff;]ah, okay. that explanation of the Mata Nui names makes sense. but at the very least, we could make the name "official fanon" of sorts--kind of like the Expanded Multiverse.[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;]thanks for supporting my idea, by the way. c:[/color]


Edited by Arc, Nov 20 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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#8 Offline fishers64

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 04:03 PM

 

I third the Kanohi Auaha rec. Not sure that the real-life meaning of "ignika" and "vahi" has anything to do with life and time, though (does it?) - I third on the basis of "it's a cool name." :P Tiro just sounds like some strength-oriented, less creation-like and brings to mind giant mechs and titans or something like that. 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]And then that got me thinking to all those times when back in the days of the Story Squad or Greg's earlier canonizations of fan suggestions, people had thought of going back to the original map of Mata Nui and suggesting the remaining words there as names. I have no idea if Greg would still be open to this now -- we [/color]could[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;], theoretically, still run a poll and ask on LEGO.com. But I'm just curious more for headcanon's sake.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I think this might clear up the "why the Mata Nui map?" thing. If they are already on the Mata Nui map, they are already cleared through Legal and would be easier to get them canonized as a mask name. But if we are just doing headcanon, it isn't relevant. And having such a name would be undesirable for many other reasons others pointed out. [/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Also, when I was doing hunts on the Mask of Creation for a new topic, I found many answers saying that Greg does not plan to name the Mask of Creation. So it would be better IMO if we just pushed the canonization thing aside. :shrugs: [/color]

[color=#00ccff;]ah, okay. that explanation of the Mata Nui names makes sense. but at the very least, we could make the name "official fanon" of sorts--kind of like the Expanded Multiverse.[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;]thanks for supporting my idea, by the way. c:[/color]

 

 

I actually disagree with the "official fanon" idea, because it is an oxymoron, to start, and also because it creates confusion with people who don't know the story as well. Every time we here in S&T use that name, we would have to explain that it was just fanon and unofficial to avoid it spreading to official reference sources and causing confusion. The name plus explanation is a whole boatload longer than the three little words that would avoid it.

 

Mask. Of. Creation.

 

:P

 

Which defeats the purpose of having a single name, anyway. Unless you're writing fanfiction, and then you can just call it whatever.


Edited by fishers64, Nov 20 2013 - 04:05 PM.

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#9 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 04:08 PM

 

 

I third the Kanohi Auaha rec. Not sure that the real-life meaning of "ignika" and "vahi" has anything to do with life and time, though (does it?) - I third on the basis of "it's a cool name." :P Tiro just sounds like some strength-oriented, less creation-like and brings to mind giant mechs and titans or something like that. 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]And then that got me thinking to all those times when back in the days of the Story Squad or Greg's earlier canonizations of fan suggestions, people had thought of going back to the original map of Mata Nui and suggesting the remaining words there as names. I have no idea if Greg would still be open to this now -- we [/color]could[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;], theoretically, still run a poll and ask on LEGO.com. But I'm just curious more for headcanon's sake.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I think this might clear up the "why the Mata Nui map?" thing. If they are already on the Mata Nui map, they are already cleared through Legal and would be easier to get them canonized as a mask name. But if we are just doing headcanon, it isn't relevant. And having such a name would be undesirable for many other reasons others pointed out. [/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Also, when I was doing hunts on the Mask of Creation for a new topic, I found many answers saying that Greg does not plan to name the Mask of Creation. So it would be better IMO if we just pushed the canonization thing aside. :shrugs: [/color]

[color=#00ccff;]ah, okay. that explanation of the Mata Nui names makes sense. but at the very least, we could make the name "official fanon" of sorts--kind of like the Expanded Multiverse.[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;]thanks for supporting my idea, by the way. c:[/color]

 

 

I actually disagree with the "official fanon" idea, because it is an oxymoron, to start, and also because it creates confusion with people who don't know the story as well. Every time we here in S&T use that name, we would have to explain that it was just fanon and unofficial to avoid it spreading to official reference sources and causing confusion. The name plus explanation is a whole boatload longer than the three little words that would avoid it.

 

Mask. Of. Creation.

 

:P

 

Which defeats the purpose of having a single name, anyway. Unless you're writing fanfiction, and then you can just call it whatever.

 

[color=#00ccff;]i know it's an oxymoron, but i think you know what i meant--a fan-coined term that is generally agreed to be acceptable. and really, you should pick a side. you agreed on the name, and now you're arguing against having one at all? i don't understand.[/color]


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#10 Offline fishers64

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 04:19 PM

[color=#00ccff;]i know it's an oxymoron, but i think you know what i meant--a fan-coined term that is generally agreed to be acceptable. and really, you should pick a side. you agreed on the name, and now you're arguing against having one at all? i don't understand.[/color]

 

I'm not changing sides. The topic starter asked for opinions on what the name should be for the story that he's writing. I offered my opinion, which was to agree with the name that you suggested. 

 

I then read your suggestion that the name should be made into a sort of official fanon. This I disagree with. I don't disagree with bonesiii consulting us to come up with an acceptable name for his story, but I do disagree with the "official fanon" concept, for the reasons I stated. 

 

Sorry if I'm confusing - I was using the issue at hand to try to illustrate why I dislike the concept. 


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#11 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 04:24 PM

 

[color=#00ccff;]i know it's an oxymoron, but i think you know what i meant--a fan-coined term that is generally agreed to be acceptable. and really, you should pick a side. you agreed on the name, and now you're arguing against having one at all? i don't understand.[/color]

 

I'm not changing sides. The topic starter asked for opinions on what the name should be for the story that he's writing. I offered my opinion, which was to agree with the name that you suggested. 

 

I then read your suggestion that the name should be made into a sort of official fanon. This I disagree with. I don't disagree with bonesiii consulting us to come up with an acceptable name for his story, but I do disagree with the "official fanon" concept, for the reasons I stated. 

 

Sorry if I'm confusing - I was using the issue at hand to try to illustrate why I dislike the concept. 

 

[color=#00ccff;]ah, you're right. sorry about that; i misread this paragraph:[/color]

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]And then that got me thinking to all those times when back in the days of the Story Squad or Greg's earlier canonizations of fan suggestions, people had thought of going back to the original map of Mata Nui and suggesting the remaining words there as names. I have no idea if Greg would still be open to this now -- we [/color]could[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;], theoretically, still run a poll and ask on LEGO.com. But I'm just curious more for headcanon's sake.[/color]

[color=#00ccff;]he meant "headcanon for now, and maybe possibly canon later", and i read a little more into the canon bit than i should've.[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;]that being said, i really don't see what's wrong with making it fanon, and it may end up as that anyway depending on if people catch onto whatever name Bones uses. but it's not absolutely necessary, and if it stays as headcanon, that's just fine too.[/color]


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#12 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 04:43 PM

I never like using things like this. But given your literary predicament, I can see why it's required.

 

I feel it could really be so many other things (including things and words we don't know/Lego haven't invented/thought of) that even putting out slightly backed theory feels a stupendously long shot. But, we don't have anything else to go on, hence it defaults to become the best option.

 

Tiro sounds as good a name as any (also simple past tense of "to throw" in Spanish lol, but I don't mind since I have to deal with Kakama already, which is funny to anyone who knows Spanish will understand, as is Nokama). I could argue for other names, but there’s little point and I think you did a good job at presenting a case given the tiny amount of available data. So out of an understanding for your Retelling’s needs, I absolutely think Kanohi Tiro is fine :)


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#13 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 05:18 PM

seeing as the story team didn't name the Ignika and Vahi after places from the island of Mata Nui, it doesn't really make sense to me for the Mask of Creation to be named (somewhat arbitrarily) in that way

Well, I figured it goes without saying that new names from the official list of approved words is off the table, since those are now being used for HF. Of course, that doesn't matter to fanfiction in general but I was hoping to pick one that at least would be plausible from in-story evidence rather than just something random. Mostly just hoping to spark discussion though. :P

 

[color=#00ccff;]a word like 'auaha' ("to create") or 'hanga' ("to build") would seem like the obvious choice to me (i particularly like the first).[/color]

As long as it stays entirely non-canon, I admit something like this is a good idea. I'd be open to the first one, if people like that more, for my retelling. Kanohi Auaha has a nice ring to it.

 

[font="Verdana;font-size:12px;color:#808080;font-style:normal;"]I'm not sure I fully understand why it's just Mata Nui locations that are being used as options here. (Not saying I have any better ideas, though. :lol:)[/font]

If there's anything else in Bionicle that is still unexplained, that's an option too IMO. The map is just all that I could recall that is left.

 

Also, the name of the Mask of Creation isn't something the Toa Metru would have known, so they wouldn't have named a landmark after it.

I did mention that in the firstpost. This would be using the meaning of the name (it's confirmed that mask names mean their powers, which is part of why I haven't bothered to mention the Bionicle versions of the names so far in my story, since saying Kanohi Hau and Mask of Shielding are synonyms). So, they would think of it as "Creation Canyon," not as named after the mask. But the logic could still work to get us an evidenced name, with the benefit of presumably already being approved by LEGO legal, if we wanted to ask for canonization. :shrugs:

 

Not sure that the real-life meaning of "ignika" and "vahi" has anything to do with life and time, though (does it?)

I suppose I should have thought to look them up, huh? :P

 

EDIT: I looked up Vahi and Ignika. Vahi is Armenean for "one who is strong", although I suppose that has a relation to time. Ignika I could not find a suitable meaning for.

On Wiktionary, Vahi is defined as "cut" in the language of Rapa Nui. It's true that this and some others have no Maori connection and might even just be coincidences, but I figure it helps to have it be something non-random. :shrugs:

 

Ignika is from later years when LEGO branched out in its etymologies and is almost certainly from "Ignition", a word used often in the promos for Voya Nui.

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Also, when I was doing hunts on the Mask of Creation for a new topic, I found many answers saying that Greg does not plan to name the Mask of Creation. So it would be better IMO if we just pushed the canonization thing aside. :shrugs: [/color]

Good to know, but he might not have thought of this option. I'm not aware that anyone did think of applying this strategy to it before now. At least I didn't see it in S&T. It was used for other things, though. The main reason it stopped is it was getting old, but that was mainly using it for people. Mangai, Ihu, Naho. I was thinking it would be more acceptable to use it once for a thing. :shrugs:

 

[color=#00ccff;]but at the very least, we could make the name "official fanon" of sorts--kind of like the Expanded Multiverse.[/color]

Well, I considered bringing that up, but unless it's based in some kind of a fanon project like the EM it would really be more of a common headcanon. Heck, people can headcanon Auaha too, or whatever they like, but yeah. For the EM itself I don't think it would work because we made a decision not to involve the legendary powers. But if something is popular and others do want to use it for a fanon project, I'd be cool with going with that for my retelling too, if nothing else.

 

I never like using things like this. But given your literary predicament, I can see why it's required.

Just to be crystal clear, it is not required in my story that I have a name for the Mask of Creation. I might be able to work around it. The main name I have decided I do need to reveal is Ignika. And then, the protagonist (this is first-person, written by the protagonist later) could say in the narration something like "The Mask of Time is the Kanohi Vahi, as another example." Then, I guess I could just have him not mention the Mask of Creation. Maybe he could figure it isn't relevant to mention it there, or something.

 

But, when Artakha starts to be active later it's gonna be awkward if I don't name it too. :shrugs: I'm undecided. :P But leaning towards using something.


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#14 Offline Omega12

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 06:50 PM

It should be named after artakha, it makes sense.You could use something like "and the mask of creation, Artakha, named after its wearer".Or you COULD name it the Kanohi Bonesiii.

Edited by Omega12, Nov 20 2013 - 06:57 PM.

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#15 Offline Click

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 07:33 PM

Interesting topic. I'll be interested to see what gets finalized.

 

Personally, I don't like the sound of Kanohi Auaha. It seems a bit vowel heavy and it may not be good to use a word directly from Maori. I would recommend changing it a bit, like Kanohi Ahuwe or something. 

 

Kanohi Artakha doesn't sound bad either. It would easily be explained in canon as part of the battle between Artahka and Karzahni: the winner receives the mask and the honor of having the legendary mask named after them. No wonder Karzahni would be so bitter then. It is also passed by the legal department at Lego already.


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#16 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Nov 20 2013 - 11:06 PM

It should be named after artakha, it makes sense.You could use something like"and the mask of creation, Artakha, named after its wearer".

We have enough named after him already, in my opinion.


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#17 Offline NuvaTube

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 02:33 AM

Just to add my opinion, I'd suggest a varitation of Nuva.

 

-Tomdroidser

 

That actually sounds like a really good idea. Nuva means "new" and creation is all about new things. Plus, virtually all Kanohi Nuva (lol) were known to come from Artahka so that actually sounds cool. The only problem for me is that you could confuse it with the Toa Nuva's masks :/


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#18 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 10:02 AM

 

Just to add my opinion, I'd suggest a varitation of Nuva.

 

-Tomdroidser

 

That actually sounds like a really good idea. Nuva means "new" and creation is all about new things. Plus, virtually all Kanohi Nuva (lol) were known to come from Artahka so that actually sounds cool. The only problem for me is that you could confuse it with the Toa Nuva's masks :/

 

[color=#00ccff;]it's a good idea, but what would we actually call it? 'Kanohi Nuva' is the name for transformed Great Masks, and i really don't see how a "variation" of the word would work--it's four letters long; there's not much you can do with that. the best i can think of is adding a vowel to the beginning, e.g. 'Anuva', or 'Onuva', and i'm not too keen on either of those (especially the latter; it's too reminiscent of 'Onua').[/color]


Edited by Arc, Nov 21 2013 - 09:41 PM.

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#19 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 10:56 AM

Prefixes aren't the only option. Is there a word part in Bionicle that has been theorized to mean "stuff"? If so, Nuva+[that suffix] could work.

 

Or, a lot of them end in u -- Nuvau?

 

I dunno. Not my favorite suggestion, frankly, as it has a very boring etymology. Kinda like Frostelus. :P But I'll admit it's evidenced.


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#20 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 11:05 AM

Prefixes aren't the only option. Is there a word part in Bionicle that has been theorized to mean "stuff"? If so, Nuva+[that suffix] could work.

 

Or, a lot of them end in u -- Nuvau?

 

I dunno. Not my favorite suggestion, frankly, as it has a very boring etymology. Kinda like Frostelus. :P But I'll admit it's evidenced.

[color=#00ccff;]the closest i could find is the suffix -hi in the [/color][color=#00ccff;]unofficial Matoran dictionary[/color][color=#00ccff;], which is defined as "thing, object, or place". 'Nuvahi' would be the result of using this, but it sounds pretty awkward to me...not to mention that it ends in the name of another Legendary Mask.[/color]


Edited by Arc, Nov 21 2013 - 09:41 PM.

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#21 Offline Omega12

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 04:41 PM

So maybe something like Kanohi Nuvhi?
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#22 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 05:00 PM

So maybe something like Kanohi Nuvhi?

[color=#00ccff;]still a bit close to Vahi, if you ask me.[/color]


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#23 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 07:13 PM

So maybe something like Kanohi Nuvhi?

[color=#00ccff;]still a bit close to Vahi, if you ask me.[/color]

Maybe, but also similar to Kolhii.


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#24 Offline Zox Tomana

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Posted Nov 21 2013 - 11:12 PM

I got bored and decided to chip in.I don't think a variation on Nuva would really work, since "Nuva" doesn't really have much to do with creation in the first place. Looking around in Tolkien's Matoran Dictionary that he's created I pieced together "Atuakha" from "atu-takha": atu- will, mind; takha- craft, crafting (according to Tolkien, lit. make with fire/by smithing). Or switch it around: "takha-atu" giving "Takhatu".
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#25 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 09:37 AM

Takhatu sounds quite nice considering the etymology... I assume Tolkien's dictionary includes explanations for the meaning of Vahi and Ignika, so that all three would have actual meanings as opposed to just being, well, nonsense words.


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#26 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 09:59 AM

I got bored and decided to chip in.I don't think a variation on Nuva would really work, since "Nuva" doesn't really have much to do with creation in the first place. Looking around in Tolkien's Matoran Dictionary that he's created I pieced together "Atuakha" from "atu-takha": atu- will, mind; takha- craft, crafting (according to Tolkien, lit. make with fire/by smithing). Or switch it around: "takha-atu" giving "Takhatu".

[color=#00ccff;]that's a pretty good idea; i like the sound of it a lot, plus it makes sense etymologically.[/color]

 

Takhatu sounds quite nice considering the etymology... I assume Tolkien's dictionary includes explanations for the meaning of Vahi and Ignika, so that all three would have actual meanings as opposed to just being, well, nonsense words.

[color=#00ccff;]it does. 'Vahi' is composed of 'va' ("time") and '-hi' ("thing"), and Ignika is a contraction of 'ign[a]i' ("everything") and 'ka' ("power").[/color]


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#27 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 10:19 AM

Well, "Va" is also the name of the helper robots for the Bohrok. Not sure how "time" would work there. And "ka" appears to mean "spirit", from the official definitions of Mistika and Phantoka, although it might have multiple definitions.


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#28 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 10:40 AM

Well, "Va" is also the name of the helper robots for the Bohrok. Not sure how "time" would work there. And "ka" appears to mean "spirit", from the official definitions of Mistika and Phantoka, although it might have multiple definitions.

[color=#00ccff;]you can take that up with Tolkien if you want, but his [/color][color=#00ccff;]definitions[/color][color=#00ccff;] seem pretty sound to me.[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;]anyway, that's a bit off topic. thoughts on 'Takhatu'?[/color]


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#29 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 01:46 PM

Continuing from my original thought, how about merging the words Makoki and Nuva? The Mask of Creation is a key to new things.

 

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#30 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 02:14 PM

Continuing from my original thought, how about merging the words Makoki and Nuva? The Mask of Creation is a key to new things.

 

-Tomdroidser

[color=#00ccff;]not sure about that. of course, i'm going by what's technically fanon here, but 'makoki' means something closer to "part of a lock" than "key", and 'mako' is "lock", so it doesn't quite fit.[/color]


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#31 Offline ~The 1st Shadow~

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 03:36 PM

I actually quite like Tom's idea. Nuvoki? Looks too much like Nuhvok, and would be pronounced too much like Avohkii. Makuva/Makova? Kanohi Makova sounds alright to me. Anyone else?

 

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#32 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 05:18 PM

I actually quite like Tom's idea. Nuvoki? Looks too much like Nuhvok, and would be pronounced too much like Avohkii. Makuva/Makova? Kanohi Makova sounds alright to me. Anyone else?

 

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[color=#00ccff;]the part of me that wants an etymological name is screaming in protest, but honestly that name doesn't sound too bad...[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;]...but. when you consider that Tolkien made the dictionary so that Vahi and Ignika have appropriate meanings, i think we should give this mask a meaningful name as well.[/color]


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#33 Offline Zox Tomana

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 05:39 PM

[color=#00ccff;]the part of me that wants an etymological name is screaming in protest, but honestly that name doesn't sound too bad...[/color] [color=#00ccff;]...but. when you consider that Tolkien made the dictionary so that Vahi and Ignika have appropriate meanings, i think we should give this mask a meaningful name as well.[/color]

And I asked Tolkien on Skype and he offered these:

Kanohi Arka:ar, (particle) "application"ka (n./stem) "power, force, energy" also "ability, creative power"ar-ka = "application of creative power; creation"wheeOther options:Kanohi Vuya (< *feu-ya "to build, create"), Anga (< aan-ka "power of being/existence" or modification < ngaa "one, first"?)

Gotta love that guy.

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#34 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 22 2013 - 05:47 PM

 

[color=#00ccff;]the part of me that wants an etymological name is screaming in protest, but honestly that name doesn't sound too bad...[/color] [color=#00ccff;]...but. when you consider that Tolkien made the dictionary so that Vahi and Ignika have appropriate meanings, i think we should give this mask a meaningful name as well.[/color]

And I asked Tolkien on Skype and he offered these:

Kanohi Arka:ar, (particle) "application"ka (n./stem) "power, force, energy" also "ability, creative power"ar-ka = "application of creative power; creation"wheeOther options:Kanohi Vuya (< *feu-ya "to build, create"), Anga (< aan-ka "power of being/existence" or modification < ngaa "one, first"?)

Gotta love that guy.

 

[color=#00ccff;]perfect. Tolkien, you're amazing. either one of those would work great, although i'm leaning toward Arka (so as to avoid two legendary masks starting with V).[/color]


Edited by Arc, Nov 22 2013 - 05:48 PM.

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#35 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Nov 23 2013 - 12:18 AM

"Kanohi Arka" just has some sort of feeling of raw power to it. Completely disregarding the fact that I'd named an island and Toa team "Arka" in my personal story and whatnot, that's my current favorite option.


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#36 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 23 2013 - 01:50 AM

Vuya resembes a typo of Voya (Nui), but Arka sounds cool. Maybe a bit too similar to Artakha, though? Artakha wears an Arka? I dunno.

 

BTW, I was going to edit my earlier post but didn't have time -- actually "Vahi" itself means time. So chances are "Va" alone does not. Va seems to mean helper. If "hi" means thing, "helper thing" would be the etymology. Hi might include a range of meanings including force or phenomena, though -- not sure if this fits into Tolkien's system, but "helper force/phenomenon" might be a reasonable etymology of time. Aaaanywho, I digress, as that's not really the question here anyways. :shrugs:

 

thoughts on 'Takhatu'?

 

Sure, that's pretty good too.


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#37 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Nov 23 2013 - 04:15 AM

Kanohi Auaha sounds nice. Vuya and Anga sound like "booya" and "anger," but that's just me. *cough*I think Arka might be the best choice. I'm anything but a linguistics expert (unless you want Celtic names! 8D), so I'm afraid I won't be of much help in that department. Good luck on the rest of your retelling, Bonesiii. :>


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#38 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 23 2013 - 10:16 AM

Vuya resembes a typo of Voya (Nui), but Arka sounds cool. Maybe a bit too similar to Artakha, though? Artakha wears an Arka? I dunno.

 

BTW, I was going to edit my earlier post but didn't have time -- actually "Vahi" itself means time. So chances are "Va" alone does not. Va seems to mean helper. If "hi" means thing, "helper thing" would be the etymology. Hi might include a range of meanings including force or phenomena, though -- not sure if this fits into Tolkien's system, but "helper force/phenomenon" might be a reasonable etymology of time. Aaaanywho, I digress, as that's not really the question here anyways. :shrugs:

[color=#00ccff;]gonna stray off topic a little more just to say that 'va' does in fact mean "time":[/color]

 

[color=#00ccff;][font="calibri, sans-serif;"]vā[/color][/font] [font="calibri, sans-serif;"] |n./stm.|  1. (abstract) time; 2. timeline, progression, advance, headway [Variant form: [/font] (ā > ō / __#)]

 

[color=#00ccff;]carry on. i'm liking the sound of Arka and Takhatu (and Auaha, heh), but it's up to you, Bones.[/color]


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#39 Online bonesiii

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Posted Nov 23 2013 - 10:48 AM

I meant in canon, Arc; the word "Vahi" means "time", so a word part of it would not. :) I know what Tolkien's system says; I'm saying it is probably "incorrect" on that point if it is trying to be a theory. Not that it matters here, just sayin'.

 

So, I'm seeing a lot of posts supporting things like Arka or Auaha. Does this mean most people don't like Tiro, and/or don't want to try for canonization? (Since Arka, etc. likely wouldn't be approved due to not already passing legal.)


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#40 Offline Arc

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Posted Nov 23 2013 - 10:56 AM

I meant in canon, Arc; the word "Vahi" means "time", so a word part of it would not. :) I know what Tolkien's system says; I'm saying it is probably "incorrect" on that point if it is trying to be a theory. Not that it matters here, just sayin'.

 

So, I'm seeing a lot of posts supporting things like Arka or Auaha. Does this mean most people don't like Tiro, and/or don't want to try for canonization? (Since Arka, etc. likely wouldn't be approved due to not already passing legal.)

[color=#00ccff;]i've only seen one person aside from you supporting Tiro. i don't think canonization is an option, but choosing one of the more popular names we've come up with for a fanon (or headcanon...sigh) sort of thing would be cool.[/color]


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