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Fire vs Plasma


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#1 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 11:24 PM

Plasma is hotter than fire, so what is the point of Toa if Fire if there are Toa of Plasma? What uses does fire have that plasma does not?
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#2 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 11:47 PM

Dude, learn your physics :P(JK). Fire and plasma are two different things. Fire is just a hot gas-ish "thing" that does different stuff than plasma, which is ionized gas and quite different. You could see here or here if my explainations aren't good enough(which they aren't).
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#3 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 01:18 AM

Dude, learn your physics :P(JK). Fire and plasma are two different things. Fire is just a hot gas-ish "thing" that does different stuff than plasma, which is ionized gas and quite different. You could see here or here if my explainations aren't good enough(which they aren't).

Just to be clear, he's right to wonder this, because in standard English classification (which this is not), fire is a type of plasma. :) And I don't think he's asking the difference between them but why Fire is there if Plasma makes it unneeded. After all, Greg defined (eventually) Sand, Earth, and Stone as three entirely separate things, but there is still no element of Sand in the Matoran Universe.

 

Also, were there supposed to be links there?

 

 

Anywho, my theory on this (forgetting real-world factors, read on) is that Fire is better for most purposes because it's more subtle and less dangerous. Bionicle Plasma isn't just a different way of getting heated gas -- it's also much, much hotter than Fire. Since that's the main difference, I think it's most reasonable to point to that to find the answer.

 

For example. Say you just need a candle lit. Get a Toa of Fire.

 

If you get a Toa of Plasma, more likely you vaporize the whole candle. :P

 

In real life, this happened in a kind of roundabout way. Unfortunately the story team apparently never sat down and said "let's figure out what the ideal, completely list of elements for the Matoran Universe should be". This was featured only as a power of the Stone-equivalent Bohrok-Kal, and only much later adopted as a Toa Element, since some others had been (other than Void, which fits well with the Lehvak Acid thing). Greg might not have fully thought that through (I dunno). Regardless, I think it still works for the above reason. (I would prefer some other elements be adopted too like Crystal, Acid, Void, Lava, etc. but we can't all and most of us don't.)


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 31 2013 - 01:22 AM.

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#4 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 12:21 PM

Well, since the Toa Nuva are the strongest Toa, and that means while Tahu was Nuva he was one of the six strongest Toa in the MU. But if Plasma is stronger than Fire, wouldn't any Toa of Plasma be stronger than Tahu?


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#5 Online Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 12:29 PM

Stronger in that case refers to the amount that can be produced, not the intensity, of the element. By its very nature plasma is stronger; it's more to the point. However, toa of plasma are hard pressed to find sources of naturally occuring plasma; they have to make their own. Toa of fire on the other hand could just manipulate the heat in the air. So fire does have some advantages.
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#6 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 03:44 PM

Well, since the Toa Nuva are the strongest Toa, and that means while Tahu was Nuva he was one of the six strongest Toa in the MU. But if Plasma is stronger than Fire, wouldn't any Toa of Plasma be stronger than Tahu?

In what context? You mean if they were to battle each other? Assuming neither was evil, I'd say Tahu has the advantage, because of the Toa Code. It would be difficult for a Toa of Plasma to unleash his power directly against Tahu non-fatally. He'd have to use other tactics, like a mask power, while Tahu could weaken him with heat, box him in with a forest fire, etc.

 

If an evil one went against him, yeah, he could pretty much vaporize Tahu instantly.... assuming of course he doesn't see it coming (but we're talking elements, not mask powers, so yeah).


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#7 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 03:54 PM

I thought all elements were equal though.


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#8 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 05:12 PM

I thought all elements were equal though.

Equal in what? Amount of elemental energy, yes.

 

I should write a blog entry sometime about the whole equal thing. I've given my answer on this so many times I'm getting tired of retyping lol. Basically, different things can be equal overall, but be "allocated" differently (look it up if you dunno what it means :)), so that in different specific situations, different ones would be more effective.

 

Like say two Toa need to cross a channel of water. That's a specific test, not an overall test. It only tests certain parts of the elements' qualities. A Toa of Plants could make a raft and get across fairly quickly, but a Toa of Water will obviously beat him. A Toa of Stone will have a much tougher time of it, needing to make a long series of stone pillars or a stone bridge to walk over, so due to the properties of his element, he'll have to use a lot more of it. Yet they all have the same total amount of elemental energy (capacity).

 

The lesson this teaches us is that total equality cannot be judged by any specific test, and any "which Toa would win" question that fails to give a specific test is unanswerable. It's precisely because they're equal that I gave you two examples, one in which Tahu would win, and a different specific test in which the Toa of Plasma would win.

 

Does that help? :)


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 31 2013 - 05:14 PM.

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#9 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 05:15 PM

Eh kinda. 

 

But there is no use fire has that plasma does not. 


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#10 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 05:17 PM

True. But like th last few posts said, fire is more controllable could be used for things plasma couldn't.
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#11 Online Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 05:23 PM

Eh kinda.  But there is no use fire has that plasma does not. 

You can't light a fire with plasma; you would just vapourize the logs.Here's a tip: fire=combustion, plasma=vapourization. Fire burns stuff, plasma disintegrates stuff. This is because plasma is several times hotter than fire and doesn't really have the "combustion" properties. So basically, if a toa of fire shot a tree, the tree would catch fire while if a toa of plasma shot a tree using the same amount of EE, half of the tree would be gone and the other half would be either charred or melting, but not flaming.

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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 06:04 PM

Eh kinda. 

 

But there is no use fire has that plasma does not. 

Yes there is, as I pointed out. Plasma is too overpowered to work in many situations. See my example with the candle. :)

 

As another example, say your friend has been frozen alive. Fire can make just heat, to gradually and safely thaw them. Plasma could only obliterate them.

 

Just think about it. There could be tons of ways Fire would be better.

 

Another is if you encounter a forest fire, a Toa of Fire can absorb it to put it out (then blast away the excess "partially absorbed" EE up into the air harmlessly). A Toa of Plasma couldn't do that.


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#13 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 06:49 PM

But if a beam of plasma were shot at you, couldn't a Toa of fire absorb the heat from it? or at least some of it? enough to stop the plasma from being hot enough to be plasma?


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#14 Online Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 06:56 PM

Yes, they could. Then the plasma becomes non-thermal plasma, and won't disintegrate you. However, shifting plasma to a gaseous form isn't so easy as tghe particles in plasma are ionized... I think that Wikipedia's gonna answer your questions more accurately than us.
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#15 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 07:09 PM

I was just on it. But to draw heat from it would disrupt it so much, ionized or not, that it seems that a Toa of Fire could match a Toa of Plasma. I guess they are balanced after all.


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#16 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 07:30 PM

But if a beam of plasma were shot at you, couldn't a Toa of fire absorb the heat from it? or at least some of it? enough to stop the plasma from being hot enough to be plasma?

I don't see how he would have time. Beams of elements are usually portrayed as really fast, while we don't really have any examples of fast absorption as far as I recall. It's kinda like saying, just because you have a furnace to melt a bullet, you could use it while a bullet is flying at you. :P (Not quite, but yeah.)

 

If the Su-Toa fired it from a great distance, yes, but not under normal fight situations. And of course (mask or not) taking him by surprise would come into it.

 

Plus, couldn't the Su-Toa counter the absorption? Not sure one Toa can absorb what another is still actively controlling. Even if they can, the Su-Toa could send it out as a beam of EE and only convert it right as it hits, so there would definitely be no time.

 

Yes, they could. Then the plasma becomes non-thermal plasma, and won't disintegrate you. However, shifting plasma to a gaseous form isn't so easy as tghe particles in plasma are ionized... I think that Wikipedia's gonna answer your questions more accurately than us.

Yeah, not sure how fast that would happen. I'd actually say Wikipedia is of even less use, partly because that's real-world physics, not Bionicle physics, and because even in our physics we have no equivalent of "absorbing the heat" like a Toa to see what would happen.

 

I was just on it. But to draw heat from it would disrupt it so much, ionized or not, that it seems that a Toa of Fire could match a Toa of Plasma. I guess they are balanced after all.

They're balanced, but not in every situation. They're balanced in total amount of EE. Like I said, if a Toa of Plasma really wanted to kill a Toa of Fire, they could do it easily.

 

But normally they would never dream of doing that, so they would actually be weaker.

 

Here's another analogy. Say you have two good guys, and they're sparring for fun, or perhaps one does need to stop the other but they could not kill each other -- neither is trying to. One has a bazooka, the other has a tazer. In that situation, the one with the rocket is actually "weaker" because he can't fire. He can only kill or do nothing, and he isn't going to kill. So the guy with the tazer may actually win.

 

This sort of situation can actually come into play if for example a Toa of Plasma is fighting a villain who has the element of fire.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 31 2013 - 07:32 PM.

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#17 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 10:44 PM

Well a blast of fire could also incinerate a Toa in seconds, could it not?

 

Also, there are some times when Toa can kill their enemies, if the stakes are high enough and such.


Edited by slifer3000, Mar 31 2013 - 10:52 PM.

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#18 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 11:03 PM

Well a blast of fire could also incinerate a Toa in seconds, could it not?

Yes, but only if they wanted to and put a lot more EE into it. :)

 

And yes, there may be times when they will kill, but it is so rare, it can't affect the overall balance enough.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 31 2013 - 11:03 PM.

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#19 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 02:47 AM

Plasma is actually the weakest Toa element IMO. They don't control heat, and any use of their element will vaporize anything. And while a minute amount of plasma might achieve the same effects of the Toa of Fire, they would require extensive amounts of training to reach that level of control. 

 

Fire is just a plain flat simpler element to use, really. Most Toa probably don't have the time needed to master such minute elemental control, and even if they did, it would probably irritate and bore them.  (Tahu as Toa of Plasma does not work in my mind. :no:)


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#20 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 05:17 PM

Its a good thing Hot temper and plasma dont go hand in hand like fire and hot temper.


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#21 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 05:24 PM

Its a good thing Hot temper and plasma dont go hand in hand like fire and hot temper.

Indeed (as far as we know :P). Of course, don't forget that it's one of the Makuta powers. *yikes*


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#22 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 05:53 PM

I don't really agree that Plasma isn't useful as an element. According to the BS01 article on Pahrak-Kal's Plasma Shield (a Plasma-elemental weapon), it has the ability to shoot produce immense heat, superheat objects, or shoot blasts of Plasma that are about 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This is actually very versatile. The way I see it is that Plasma superheats and/or melts things, while fire simply burns them and grants a greater control of the heat involved. The practical difference would be a tree that is melted versus a tree that is on fire.

 

This may sound similar but chemically it is quite different - for example, a fire needs oxygen and combustible material to keep being active. I would imagine BIONICLE Plasma needs none of this, but it cannot maintain a sustained burn once the Toa stops focusing. This could be useful for making precision cuts, like cutting a steel/iron/metal beam without having to set the whole thing on fire, or precision welding - if you've ever worked with a plasma welder, you know just how useful and precise it can be. I would imagine it could also be used to get rid of a single tree in a forest without having to risk burning the whole thing down, since there is no risk of spreading a fire.

 

Also, remember Toa normally travel in teams, so a sole Toa of Plasma against one bad guy wouldn't be too common - still, he would stand a pretty good shot, as there are plenty of creative ways to use plasma. For example, you could superheat the ground around him to put him in a little island in a puddle of lava, you could vaporize projectiles launched by the bad guy, you could melting the bad guy's weapon or cut it in a manner that makes it useless, etc. You just have to be a bit more creative with it than you do with fire. For example, lets use the example of a frozen buddy - he might not be able to melt the ice directly, but he could easily launch a beam in a manner that radiates heat at the ice so that it melts. Just as useful as fire, but it takes a bit of thinking to figure out.

 

-TN05


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#23 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 06:26 PM

I agree, TN05. Of course, the point of all this is that overall the elements do balance out to equal, so it's not about making one better than the other.

 

It's kinda like, you show the weaknesses of one, showing that it's not superior, and then show its strengths to "bring it back up" to equal.

 

One nitpick: Not sure it's safe to say plasma-ifying a tree wouldn't start a fire, though. In a moist jungle, I would agree, but if things were dry, and just one spark caught, it could all go up. Of course, maybe the Toa could then try again with the flaming part and hope it works that time to stop the spread. Still.


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#24 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 06:30 PM

Well plasma is a gas that is superheated. So, could a Toa of Fire not focus enough energy to reach that level? Fire itself is nothing, nothing but heat. And if a Toa could superheat air to the point where it explodes, it would have to be upwards near plasma level heat. So couldn't a Toa of Fire have a very limited power of plasma as well?


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#25 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 06:48 PM

I agree, TN05. Of course, the point of all this is that overall the elements do balance out to equal, so it's not about making one better than the other.

 

It's kinda like, you show the weaknesses of one, showing that it's not superior, and then show its strengths to "bring it back up" to equal.

 

One nitpick: Not sure it's safe to say plasma-ifying a tree wouldn't start a fire, though. In a moist jungle, I would agree, but if things were dry, and just one spark caught, it could all go up. Of course, maybe the Toa could then try again with the flaming part and hope it works that time to stop the spread. Still.

Yep, they all have separate merits. Plasma has some drawbacks, but it also has plenty of upside in utility as well as in the sheer heat of plasma. If you want to superheat, melt, weld, or cut something, Plasma is a better option than Fire. If you want to burn something, control open flame, or adjust the heat of something, Fire is a better bet. Fire may grant more control over heat, but it is a bit messier than Plasma, and it probably won't get as hot as Plasma, but Plasma doesn't offer sustained burn or the ability to control heat.

 

I can picture the two powers complementing each other quite well - the Plasma Toa can use his power more liberally, and the Fire Toa can deal with controlling the heat of the Plasma or cleaning up any mess.

 

My tree example was mainly for a moist jungle or swamp like on Mata Nui - regardless, I think a melted tree would have less chance of setting off a fire than a tree that is on fire.

 

Well plasma is a gas that is superheated. So, could a Toa of Fire not focus enough energy to reach that level? Fire itself is nothing, nothing but heat. And if a Toa could superheat air to the point where it explodes, it would have to be upwards near plasma level heat. So couldn't a Toa of Fire have a very limited power of plasma as well?

 

To get a flame to burn to such a high temperature you need a lot of fuel, a lot of oxygen, and you need the material to be above the flash point; if it lacks any of these, it will die. Heat is a byproduct of fire, not necessarily the cause of it. Plasma skips over this process entirely; it doesn't need fuel, oxygen, or flash-point temperatures, but it doesn't give a controlled burn.

 

Plasma is at least 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit according to BIONICLE, so we can assume that Fire is much less hot (at its base) to prevent overlapping powers. A Toa of Fire can increase heat, and absorb heat to decrease it, but we don't know the full extent of this. Regardless, I would guess there is an upper limit to this ability, probably well short of the temperature of Plasma.

 

-TN05


Edited by Toa Nidhiki05, Apr 01 2013 - 06:59 PM.

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#26 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 07:11 PM

Well plasma is a gas that is superheated. So, could a Toa of Fire not focus enough energy to reach that level? Fire itself is nothing, nothing but heat. And if a Toa could superheat air to the point where it explodes, it would have to be upwards near plasma level heat. So couldn't a Toa of Fire have a very limited power of plasma as well?

Very limited yes. It it would be better in most situations to just make fire. A few notes:

 

1) Fire is heat + flammable materials. (And there's been some debate that it includes oxygen to react with the flammable material, unsure if that was ever resolved. It can work underwater but that could be by the dissolved oxygen in the water. If it would work in space then it has to include oxygen.) It is not just heat. That is to say, what a Toa of Fire makes is those things. The "fire" itself that results is a currently active chemical reaction.

 

2) Plasma includes control over the gas that is being superheated, so there's that weakness to what Fire could do as well. The heated air would "slip away" much more easily for Fire, making the effects even weaker.

 

3) Basically the only situation where I can see them doing that is if there is no oxygen (and if they can't make it, which I dunno). There's evidence that the flammable material is itself a gas (nobody's ever seen a Toa of Fire seeming to make anything like wood dust for example). The distinction is that the Toa of Fire makes gas that is reactive with oxygen when heated while the Toa of Plasma makes gas that is not (so probably things like helium). If this is correct (and as far as I know it wasn't confirmed to be a gas), then with enough heat they could make plasma even in space.

 

They could technically make it out of air, but it would be much more efficient to make Fire there. Of course, IF they don't make oxygen, then in an oxygen-deprived environment like a cave they've been breathing in too long they could too. Either that or space would require some explanation of how they aren't dead, though. Maybe if they were about to suffocate and decided to "go for broke" and make a stream of intense heat to cut a hole in a wall in the hopes that there was another cave or an exit beyond it. (Plasma might also not burn what oxygen was left, not so sure though. Depends on what other gasses were already there.)


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#27 Offline DarkLordBane154

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 12:03 AM

I sorta view Plasma as being a completely offensive power whereas Fire (while being one of the most offensively oriented), is a little more neutral than Plasma.  Powers such as Water and Air have a lot less offensive capabilities, but this doesn't make them any "weaker" than, say, Fire for instance.  There are advantages to being defensive as well as offensive, and Plasma offers very little in this field.  This is not to say that Fire necessarily does, but like many other people have pointed out, Fire has more of a subtlety to it that can be advantageous.  I mean we have lasers in real life that are used for things such as some surgeries and precise cutting, but in our world there are still just as many uses for fire that are not made obsolete by the use of plasma or lasers.

 

Also on a side note, I've always thought that Plasma probably has a few light related powers, which could be one of its few defensive abilities, such as creating a blinding flash of plasma energy that would stun and temporarily blind enemies.  Just a thought that I had.


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#28 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 10:25 AM

I sorta view Plasma as being a completely offensive power whereas Fire (while being one of the most offensively oriented), is a little more neutral than Plasma.  Powers such as Water and Air have a lot less offensive capabilities, but this doesn't make them any "weaker" than, say, Fire for instance.  There are advantages to being defensive as well as offensive, and Plasma offers very little in this field.  This is not to say that Fire necessarily does, but like many other people have pointed out, Fire has more of a subtlety to it that can be advantageous.  I mean we have lasers in real life that are used for things such as some surgeries and precise cutting, but in our world there are still just as many uses for fire that are not made obsolete by the use of plasma or lasers.

 

Also on a side note, I've always thought that Plasma probably has a few light related powers, which could be one of its few defensive abilities, such as creating a blinding flash of plasma energy that would stun and temporarily blind enemies.  Just a thought that I had.

 

Plasma does lack a lot of defensive capability, yes, although there are some very good uses - imagine a bad guy has this projectile launcher. You could launch plasma at the projectiles to prevent them from hitting you, or you could superheat the launcher to make him drop it.

 

I think that last idea makes sense, it just really depends on the intensity of the plasma; plasma welders, which can cause sunburn and vision damage (why you need the mask, gloves, and protective gear), operate at about 25,000 degrees Fahrenheit. That is 12.5 times more hot than the 2,000 degrees that the Plasma Shield of Pahrak-Kal could make. This would be a great question for Greg if he still took questions. :P

 

-TN05


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#29 Offline Silverglass

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 11:08 AM

There is one advantage Plasma has over Fire:......Neon lights. *bricked*


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#30 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 11:40 AM

I disagree with the "Plasma is not defensive" argument. I think a Su-Toa could make a floating wall of plasma that would dissolve any enemy attacks and prevent them from getting close.

 

With the whole "offensive use of plasma usually equals kill" rule still in effect, I imagine that this would be a pretty common use.  


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#31 Offline Tanu Toa of Earth

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 09:26 PM

Wow, now that I'm really thinking about it, Plasma sounds like a really fun power to have. ESPECIALLY with the neon lights. :P


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#32 Offline DarkLordBane154

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 10:38 PM

When I say that Plasma is more offensive than Air for example, I don't mean that there are no defensive uses for Plasma, like a shield or wall, but it is much more direct.  Air for example, can attack, and defend, but in a less direct way.  And while Plasma can defend, it is much less capable at it.  Also you mentioned incinerating projectiles coming towards a Toa of Plasma, but how often are you able to hit an arrow or zamor sphere coming at you by throwing a baseball at it?  And I don't think a Plasma Toa could heat up the launcher so that an enemy dropped it.  If you hit it with plasma, it would incinerate the thing and possible harm the wielder as well.  Like other have said, Fire could achieve this effect much easier.


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#33 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 10:50 PM

And while Plasma can defend, it is much less capable at it.  Also you mentioned incinerating projectiles coming towards a Toa of Plasma, but how often are you able to hit an arrow or zamor sphere coming at you by throwing a baseball at it?

I think it would be right to say that Plasma has the capacity to be a much more deadly offensive attack than Fire, but a lot of the rest of what you said seems like a stretch. Especially this first sentence in this quote -- what about fishers' example of putting up a wall of plasma? I'd say that'd stop a lot more than Fire would. So it's much more capable of defense in that sense. And for a Toa, that's a far more likely use than anything offensive, since they can't kill, and it's very hard not to kill with Plasma. (Incidentally, I was going to bring up the wall defense thing myself, but fishers stole my thunder. :P)

 

As for the projectile, that's not a good comparison because 1) we can't control a baseball after we've thrown it while a Toa can, 2) if the Toa of Plasma uses a beam he wouldn't even need to do that; he could just do the equivalent of a firefighter moving the steady spray of a high-powered water hose, and 3) the question is not how easy it would be in general but how easy compared to a Toa of Fire. In other words, it's about the fact that the superheat is more likely to vaporize the projectile if it hits it successfully, not about being more likely to hit it.

 

Honestly, it's hard to see what other element would be as good at defense as Plasma, or better, other than the solids.


Edited by bonesiii, Apr 02 2013 - 11:07 PM.

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#34 Online Click

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 11:10 PM

You know, while we're talking about plasma, I had a few quick clarification questions I wanted to add in. Hopefully it isn't too off topic.1. What does plasma look like in the Bionicle Universe? White-hot flame? Almost a glowing steam? Or more like the liquid-ish stuff Sci-Fi abounds in? The latter was how it was always shown in the comics.2. Could a Toa of Plasma absorb heat (maybe even light if Bane's prediction holds true) like a Toa of Fire?3. And with the ability to heat an opponent's weapon, would it be possible to create plasma inside the mechanisms of a weapon, or would it have to be closer to them, or at least in field of view?4. Would the aforementioned wall of plasma have any effect on energy-based projectiles, such as Rhotuka?This topic has really given me some great ideas. I'm working on a short story now about a Su-Toa who is uncomfortable about using his element even a little bit because of the dangerous and lethal effects of it. A battle scene near the end using some of these ideas would be awesome! Hope everyone's okay with that. :D S&T just gives me so many ideas.
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#35 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 11:25 PM

What does plasma look like in the Bionicle Universe?

All we have is the Pahrak-Kal portrayals. Orange shining/glowing and similar. It may vary depending on the gas they are choosing to make. See here:

 

http://biosector01.c...l_Powers#Plasma

 

Could a Toa of Plasma absorb heat (maybe even light if Bane's prediction holds true) like a Toa of Fire?

I don't know if it's ever been denied, but it's definitely not confirmed. BS01's respective pages show this; it's stated for Fire but not for Plasma. My guess is no; that it's a Fire thing to help make them more balanced with Plasma. The limitation on Plasma would help keep them from being overpowered.

 

And with the ability to heat an opponent's weapon, would it be possible to create plasma inside the mechanisms of a weapon, or would it have to be closer to them, or at least in field of view?

Not sure I understand the question, but Toa can send out EE and transform it later rather than right away as soon as it leaves their hands, so any place they direct it to should be possible (assuming no interference power is in play).

 

Would the aforementioned wall of plasma have any effect on energy-based projectiles, such as Rhotuka?

I think it would work on Zamor (I was thinking about that one before seeing your post so pardon the indirect answer :P -- and yeah I know it's not energy-based, but similar), because Zamor are intangible after they're fired but "drop" something tangible that's inside when they hit. So the Plasma should destroy the "payload." Rhotuka are tangible energy, so if they hit a solid wall, the energy breaks and the power is released. Whether that would happen with Plasma is somewhat debatable -- it's a fluid, but I'd think the superheat would definitely blast apart the energy bonds even more so than a solid. At least for a fanfic I'd go with that.


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#36 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Apr 03 2013 - 08:12 AM

Could a Toa of Plasma absorb heat (maybe even light if Bane's prediction holds true) like a Toa of Fire?

I don't know if it's ever been denied, but it's definitely not confirmed. BS01's respective pages show this; it's stated for Fire but not for Plasma. My guess is no; that it's a Fire thing to help make them more balanced with Plasma. The limitation on Plasma would help keep them from being overpowered.

 

Would the aforementioned wall of plasma have any effect on energy-based projectiles, such as Rhotuka?

I think it would work on Zamor (I was thinking about that one before seeing your post so pardon the indirect answer :P -- and yeah I know it's not energy-based, but similar), because Zamor are intangible after they're fired but "drop" something tangible that's inside when they hit. So the Plasma should destroy the "payload." Rhotuka are tangible energy, so if they hit a solid wall, the energy breaks and the power is released. Whether that would happen with Plasma is somewhat debatable -- it's a fluid, but I'd think the superheat would definitely blast apart the energy bonds even more so than a solid. At least for a fanfic I'd go with that.

 

 

Toa of Plasma can absorb Plasma, like almost every Toa type can, but they should not be able to absorb heat since that is a Fire power.

 

As for Zamors, Plasma would be more than enough to annihilate the contents of the sphere - lightning in the Inika's bodies was enough to do so, so Plasma should be able to as well. I agree on Rhotuka as well, I just don't think the energy would survive the extreme heat of Plasma. At the very least Plasma would be a good option to dispatch tangible projectiles like Kanoka.

 

-TN05


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#37 Offline Onua39

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Posted Apr 05 2013 - 02:19 PM

[color=#40e0d0;]Plasma is basically like lava except its MUCH hotter, and it is the consitancy of water[/color]


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#38 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 05 2013 - 02:21 PM

[color=#40e0d0;]Plasma is basically like lava except its MUCH hotter, and it is the consitancy of water[/color]

No, lava and water are both liquids. It's a gas that is so heated it is shining. It's more like fire, except not produced through combustion but rather superheat. :) In terms of consistency, it is of Air.


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#39 Offline Noise #0579

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Posted Apr 05 2013 - 02:28 PM

One thing I'm confused about: BioSector stats that a Su-Toa can create blasts/beams of Plasma, rather than just "creating Plasma".  It does mention that they can control Plasma, but does this mean that they can only produce Plasma in blasts and beams and then control it once it has formed?

 

Also, if I can tack this on: if a Su-Skakdi and a Vo-Skakdi were to combine their powers, what sort of result would that be?  A massive beam of destruction that would shear through obstacles and leave them as electrified molten slag, perhaps?


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#40 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Apr 05 2013 - 02:46 PM

The wording confuses me, but I think it means they have to do it in blasts due to the power. Don't know, though. As for your second paragraph...electrified plasma...
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