Klack Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Was it the wrong time? Did Lego not put enough 'effort' into marketing those lines, compared to Bionicle? Or was it just purely the aesthetics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidonaro Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Bionicle had a whole universe that attracted attention. While the Throwbots were good figures, they didn't have enough lore. Something similar happened to Hero Factory. Edited May 13, 2015 by Zidonaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 They didn't take off mostly due to their lack of a truly interesting story and any proper media efforts to tell it with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northmarch Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 My understanding is that they didn't fail. Slizers was more succesfull than anticipated but by the time Lego realised what they had, Roboriders was already on its way. If I recall, the plan was to do something new like Slizers and roboriders each year but that just wasn't practical, so the next Technic subline they had planed was rewritten as Bionicle. If Slizers had been a failure that would likely have been seen as an indicator that there was no potential market for Constraction figures, meaning no Bionicle 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grungemeister Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Basically, Bionicle had a better story/lore, even though both sets had a similar style and quality of build. Also, your sig is terrifying 1 Quote A RUDE AWAKENING - A Bionicle G1 continuation and video-game project(MUSIC COMPOSER) special thx to Inary the Gunhaver for my new username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergrey: Toa of Music Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Also, your sig is terrifying I have to agree with this point lol And Slizers were successful, but as previously stated, Lego had already planned Roboriders before they realized how well Slizer was doing. Roboriders weren't a fail, but if memory serves me correctly, I think Slizers were still more successful than Roboriders which is why VooDoo Heads were developed (a return to technic figures rather than vehicle characters) and then later transformed into Bionicle and then the rest is history. What Slizer had was cool robotic creatures with functions and then Bionicle capitalized on the success of that idea with a fully developed story and mass marketing. 3 Quote Other great bands: Iron Maiden Journey Mercenary The Unguided Trivium Boston Stratovarius Symphony X Epica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klack Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Also, your sig is terrifying I have to agree with this point lol And Slizers were successful, but as previously stated, Lego had already planned Roboriders before they realized how well Slizer was doing. Roboriders weren't a fail, but if memory serves me correctly, I think Slizers were still more successful than Roboriders which is why VooDoo Heads were developed (a return to technic figures rather than vehicle characters) and then later transformed into Bionicle and then the rest is history. What Slizer had was cool robotic creatures with functions and then Bionicle capitalized on the success of that idea with a fully developed story and mass marketing. Hm, so it all came down to marketing and story? Dang. Makes me wonder what if Lego gave Throwbots the same treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumiki Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 You have to remember that LEGO was in a very bad spot around that time, and a lot of the lines they launched were attempts to figure out what worked and what didn't so they could connect with a sufficient audience before they went bankrupt. The idea of Technic-based buildable action figures was so novel—and a huge risk to produce—that LEGO had to test to see what stuck. They put all of their eggs in the BIONICLE basket, proverbially speaking, and it paid off—but had BIONICLE been launched sight unseen, it would have fared the same as its Technic predecessors, because—both aesthetically and functionally—the 2001 sets were not that far removed from the era of the Slizers and Roboriders. Of course, neither of the predecessor lines had any real marketing behind them, let alone comics. LEGO went all-in, and they did so in a way that has no real analogue in the current era. Paring it all down to marketing is probably the most correct of any one-word or one-sentence answer, but the truth resists simplicity; there are always other factors at play. A Slizer or Roborider comic would not have done as well as a BIONICLE comic because those lines didn't have the built-in "lore factor," and set designers needed to become accustomed to building Technic-based creatures before coming up with the iconic Rahi. 4 Quote avatar by Lady Kopaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergrey: Toa of Music Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Yeah, I forgot to address that; Lego was nearly bankrupt at the time and they kind of had to promote Bionicle as a saving grace to keep them afloat. It was a huge gamble to do, but Bionicle saved the company as well as became something extremely iconic. They wanted (and really NEEDED) the line to succeed and it did. Quote Other great bands: Iron Maiden Journey Mercenary The Unguided Trivium Boston Stratovarius Symphony X Epica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xabla Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thowbots/Slizer was just a test to see if a long term Constraction line would sell. Quote cringe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyichir Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't think either of them "failed" outright. But if I remember correctly, the main reason neither of them took off like Bionicle did was because the story was less defined and the characters less relatable. The Throwbots/Slizers were not easy to relate to, with strange proportions and non-faces hidden behind emotionless visors. Roboriders was even worse, with non-articulated vehicle characters who themselves displayed little emotion, and a "story" that really only manifested in a single online action game. The Toa took successful aspects of these earlier sets (such as elemental powers), but did so with human-like characters and a more traditional adventure story of good vs. evil. 2 Quote Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence Aanchir's and Meiko's brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanchir Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Just to be clear, Slizer/Throwbots did not really fail. In fact, it was mildly successful, generating sales of about $100 million. But LEGO's plans were to retire Slizer after about a year and a half to replace it with Roboriders, and "by the time Roboriders, a line of six vehiclelike creations with special powers, roared into the market in December 1999, it was too late to reverse course and extend Slizer's run. The company's leaders could only hope that Slizer's success would fuel RoboRiders' performance." (Brick by Brick, pp160-161)LEGO was prepared to keep Roboriders going longer if it was successful, but it generally wasn't, mainly because the vehicle-like characters were abstract and not relatable. This is a big part of why BIONICLE generally stuck to human-like or animal-like character designs. Also, the LEGO Group's inability to reliably design and test an entirely new product line each year is part of why they decided that they would try and develop the "Voodoo Heads" concept into a story that could be told in chapters, so that they could keep it going as long as its sales remained strong. In general, there's a lot of valuable information about the development of the BIONICLE theme, including its predecessors, in chapter six of the book Brick by Brick. I encourage any LEGO fan who can get their hands on a copy to read it. 8 Quote Latest MOC: PAIGE (Prototype Artificial Intelligence, Gynoid Expression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Given that Slizers' sets were quite similar to (if not as good as) the Toa Mata it's unsurprising they sold pretty well, even if they lacked the story element that Bionicle had. I actually bought the majority of the sets. I wonder how things might've gone had Slizers continued. Would it have lasted as long as Bionicle? Would there have ever been Bionicle at all? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Mac n Cheese Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It's my understanding that not only did Throwbots/Slizers have a different name depending on region, but also a different storyline. BIONICLE had the same name and storyline worldwide. I'm not sure how this factors into success, but it might. For example,spending time, money and resources on two stories vs. just one. 1 Quote My friend went to Po-Wahi and all I got was this lousy rock. Blue sea...a Ruki leaps...the sound of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 My understanding is that they didn't fail. Slizers was more succesfull than anticipated but by the time Lego realised what they had, Roboriders was already on its way. If I recall, the plan was to do something new like Slizers and roboriders each year but that just wasn't practical, so the next Technic subline they had planed was rewritten as Bionicle.If Slizers had been a failure that would likely have been seen as an indicator that there was no potential market for Constraction figures, meaning no Bionicle ^This. Rider's sudden entrance didn't give enough time for Slizer's story to be fleshed out, but by the time Lego realised how popular Slizers had become, it was too late and Riders was already being manufactured, or at least designed. Quote . Kathok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It's my understanding that not only did Throwbots/Slizers have a different name depending on region, but also a different storyline. BIONICLE had the same name and storyline worldwide. To be clear, it was Throwbots in North America and Slizers in Europe and probably the rest of the world. Throwbots had each living on his own planet, Slizers had them living on the same planet divided into one region for each (a setup that obviously lived on in Mata and even Metru Nui). Throwbots also had slightly snazzier names than Slizers; see the differences here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xccj Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'll also point out that the Throwbots / Slizers did have two waves of sets, so they weren't quite the one-and-done theme. (I forget if it was a six month gap or a year gap between them... heck, there might have been three waves, cause there were three sets of four characters, but I think the first two got released at the same time.) I realize they had probably planned out the second wave before the first wave had sold well, but they must've had some confidence to push forward with the second wave. A few other things that the Throwbots / Slizers had going for them (that Bionicle borrowed / improved on) was the collectability factor (they had disc packs with random discs, although they weren't as readily distributed as the mask packs were) and the cost (the individual sets were generally affordable, which is a model that was later used with the Toa.) They obviously didn't do as well as Bionicle, but I don't think they failed. Quote My BZPower Stories Dark Core--Kulagi's Kanoka--A Shadow's Contrivance--Mystery on Keli-Nui--BZ-Koro: To Bring Back Bionicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hip Historian Iaredios Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers? 1 Quote A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu | Pushing Back The Tide | Last Words | Black Coronation | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos ن We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quisoves Potoo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers?When I was four years old, I thought the Roboriders were the coolest thing ever.It might have helped that my father owned a motorcycle at the time.And this was, of course, before BIONCLE. But while I loved BIONCLE even more, I didn't love its predescessors less because of it. Say, has anyone ever noticed the similarities in the premises of Roboriders and BIONICLE?You've got machine-creatures, in elemental-biomes, fighting against a virus, which is responsible for some sort of fundamental damage to their universe. 1 Quote (Credit to Nik the Three for the banner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlexander Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers?When I was four years old, I thought the Roboriders were the coolest thing ever.It might have helped that my father owned a motorcycle at the time.And this was, of course, before BIONCLE. But while I loved BIONCLE even more, I didn't love its predescessors less because of it. Say, has anyone ever noticed the similarities in the premises of Roboriders and BIONICLE?You've got machine-creatures, in elemental-biomes, fighting against a virus, which is responsible for some sort of fundamental damage to their universe. *que X-Files theme* Quote |"We are the Turaga of the new generation." ~OwlexanderYouTube - Imgur - Flickr - Bionicle RPG Chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers? A planet divided into seven equal-size segments each right up next to two others but each consisting of a completely different environment was admittedly pretty silly. Say, has anyone ever noticed the similarities in the premises of Roboriders and BIONICLE?You've got machine-creatures, in elemental-biomes, fighting against a virus, which is responsible for some sort of fundamental damage to their universe. With Bionicle the threat was from beings symbolic of a virus, rather than a literal virus as it was in Roboriders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klack Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'm honestly think Roboriders look cooler than Throwbots, tbh. I just bid on a set of 4 Roboriders online, so hopefully I win that. But my dang pre-paid debit card keeps messing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quisoves Potoo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 With Bionicle the threat was from beings symbolic of a virus, rather than a literal virus as it was in Roboriders.BIONICLE had an actual virus. What do you think put Mata Nui to sleep? Quote (Credit to Nik the Three for the banner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 With Bionicle the threat was from beings symbolic of a virus, rather than a literal virus as it was in Roboriders.BIONICLE had an actual virus. What do you think put Mata Nui to sleep? But the characters weren't fighting that itself, they fought the being responsible for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quisoves Potoo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 But the characters weren't fighting that itself, they fought the being responsible for it.It's not an exact parallel, but the virus is still the cause of their quest. It's not an actual adversary, but the cellular analogy remains. Quote (Credit to Nik the Three for the banner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers? A planet divided into seven equal-size segments each right up next to two others but each consisting of a completely different environment was admittedly pretty silly.BIONICLE did basically the same thing at a smaller scale, though, with jungle transitioning to ice transitioning to desert with no visible divisions all on a single island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quisoves Potoo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 BIONICLE did basically the same thing at a smaller scale, though, with jungle transitioning to ice transitioning to desert with no visible divisions all on a single island.That's the joke, methinks.=P Quote (Credit to Nik the Three for the banner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Mac n Cheese Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 What I'm getting from this thread is that it's not that RoboRiders and Slzer/Throwbots failed, it's that BIONICLE was spectacularly successful. 3 Quote My friend went to Po-Wahi and all I got was this lousy rock. Blue sea...a Ruki leaps...the sound of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klack Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 What I'm getting from this thread is that it's not that RoboRiders and Slzer/Throwbots failed, it's that BIONICLE was spectacularly successful.Ditto. I just wished Lego just continued the Roboriders/Throwbots lines alongside Bionicle, but that would've cannibalized sales. Especially back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers? A planet divided into seven equal-size segments each right up next to two others but each consisting of a completely different environment was admittedly pretty silly.BIONICLE did basically the same thing at a smaller scale, though, with jungle transitioning to ice transitioning to desert with no visible divisions all on a single island. The different environments of Mata Nui could mostly co-exist. Africa is mostly desert in the north whilst the middle has areas of jungle, which accounts for Po-Wahi and Le-Wahi being on the same landmass. Ga-Wahi could be between these two areas. The presence of a volcano takes care of Ta-Wahi, whilst Onu-Wahi is the underground rather than a distinct area of the island. The big problem is Ko-Wahi. It's impossible for an area of permanently cold climate to be right in the middle of a landmass that would need very hot temperatures to have desert and jungle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkshi Lalonde Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers? A planet divided into seven equal-size segments each right up next to two others but each consisting of a completely different environment was admittedly pretty silly.BIONICLE did basically the same thing at a smaller scale, though, with jungle transitioning to ice transitioning to desert with no visible divisions all on a single island. The different environments of Mata Nui could mostly co-exist. Africa is mostly desert in the north whilst the middle has areas of jungle, which accounts for Po-Wahi and Le-Wahi being on the same landmass. Ga-Wahi could be between these two areas. The presence of a volcano takes care of Ta-Wahi, whilst Onu-Wahi is the underground rather than a distinct area of the island. The big problem is Ko-Wahi. It's impossible for an area of permanently cold climate to be right in the middle of a landmass that would need very hot temperatures to have desert and jungle. wasn't Ko-Wahi entirely high mountain range? most notably, the peak of mount Ihu? o: (i could be wrong here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 wasn't Ko-Wahi entirely high mountain range? most notably, the peak of mount Ihu? The problem is that the map portrays Ko-Wahi as a flat region covered in ice, like Greenland or Antarctica, rather than as mountainous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Mac n Cheese Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Easy: Which would you rather buy? Weird looking robots with long faces and lived on Pizza Planet, or robots that lived primitively on a tropical island and wore ancient masks that gave them super powers? A planet divided into seven equal-size segments each right up next to two others but each consisting of a completely different environment was admittedly pretty silly.BIONICLE did basically the same thing at a smaller scale, though, with jungle transitioning to ice transitioning to desert with no visible divisions all on a single island. The different environments of Mata Nui could mostly co-exist. Africa is mostly desert in the north whilst the middle has areas of jungle, which accounts for Po-Wahi and Le-Wahi being on the same landmass. Ga-Wahi could be between these two areas. The presence of a volcano takes care of Ta-Wahi, whilst Onu-Wahi is the underground rather than a distinct area of the island. The big problem is Ko-Wahi. It's impossible for an area of permanently cold climate to be right in the middle of a landmass that would need very hot temperatures to have desert and jungle. wasn't Ko-Wahi entirely high mountain range? most notably, the peak of mount Ihu? o: (i could be wrong here.) I believe the Drifts were in a valley. Quote My friend went to Po-Wahi and all I got was this lousy rock. Blue sea...a Ruki leaps...the sound of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hordika Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 My understanding is that they didn't fail. Slizers was more succesfull than anticipated but by the time Lego realised what they had, Roboriders was already on its way. If I recall, the plan was to do something new like Slizers and roboriders each year but that just wasn't practical, so the next Technic subline they had planed was rewritten as Bionicle.If Slizers had been a failure that would likely have been seen as an indicator that there was no potential market for Constraction figures, meaning no Bionicle He's right. The Throwbots were popular with the Technic fans, but it was cancelled way to fast. Roboriders failed because, compared to Throwbots, the story was lack-luster(But I secretly like Throwbots and Roboriders) and sets were pretty much duplicates with little differences. With the "success" of Throwbots, the road was paved for Bionicle. Not just paved, but lined in gold Quote I'm currently in the process of rewriting G2. PM me if interested.Feel free to follow the blog! (https://spiritofokoto.tumblr.com/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klack Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 I'm sorry for going off-topic here, folks. But I'm really confused: I'm trying to buy The Boss on Bricklink, and I'm worried that the sellers don't have the correct pieces for the alternate model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quisoves Potoo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 and sets were pretty much duplicates with little differences.Yeah, look at the lack of variety. Man, the Toa really blew them out of the water in terms of diversity. No wonder BIONICLE went on for nine years. 1 Quote (Credit to Nik the Three for the banner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klack Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 and sets were pretty much duplicates with little differences.Yeah, look at the lack of variety. Man, the Toa really blew them out of the water in terms of diversity. No wonder BIONICLE went on for nine years. At least they weren't generic, humanoid builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kohran Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 sets were pretty much duplicates with little differences. The sets in the Bohrok and Rahkshi waves had no differences outside their colour and weapon pieces, yet they still sold well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Joking aside, the RoboRiders' builds are surprisingly diverse for a theme where all the characters are motorcycles. Swamp and Lava both use the four-bar style function build, Onyx, Dust, and Power use the large worm gear housing piece, and Frost uses a Throwbot/Slizer body. And even within those categories each one is different. RoboRiders are just cool. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hordika Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Joking aside, the RoboRiders' builds are surprisingly diverse for a theme where all the characters are motorcycles. Swamp and Lava both use the four-bar style function build, Onyx, Dust, and Power use the large worm gear housing piece, and Frost uses a Throwbot/Slizer body. And even within those categories each one is different. RoboRiders are just cool.I'm not saying it isn't cool, because it is my 3rd favorite. And I'm not saying Bionicle blew it out of the water. That is my complaint with 2002-2003. The clone villians. Look at my signature and you'll see a ranking. I happen to love Roboriders, and think it went on not long enough. I would love to have them back. Every theme had a problem. None were perfect. Except GALIDOR! Just kidding please don't kill me Quote I'm currently in the process of rewriting G2. PM me if interested.Feel free to follow the blog! (https://spiritofokoto.tumblr.com/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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