Girls' Corner

[Tuan Taureo]

Aw geez. This is what I get for falling off the face of BZP into a viper's den of other fandoms for months on end.Hi, fellow sisters, here's one of those gnarly harpies from way back when BGCIII was rockin' the old forum to Mangaia and back. *offers fistbump*Cutting to the chase: to this day I have a fully forum-formatted txt file with the original original submission list with all the crazyold stuff linking to the old forum. Is anyone interested in that? (It's massive. I suppose I could attempt to post it and then the first post can have like a "Click here for archivez!" link to my post? I dono.)Just poking my head in and waving to the current crowd. /wave--Tuan

[Mushy the Mushroom]

(Removed.)

Edited September 21, 2020 by Mushy the Mushroom

[Peach 00]

Aw geez. This is what I get for falling off the face of BZP into a viper's den of other fandoms for months on end.Hi, fellow sisters, here's one of those gnarly harpies from way back when BGCIII was rockin' the old forum to Mangaia and back. *offers fistbump*Cutting to the chase: to this day I have a fully forum-formatted txt file with the original original submission list with all the crazyold stuff linking to the old forum. Is anyone interested in that? (It's massive. I suppose I could attempt to post it and then the first post can have like a "Click here for archivez!" link to my post? I dono.)Just poking my head in and waving to the current crowd. /wave--Tuan

Hello. ^^ And yes, that would actually be quite nice. If it isn't too much trouble, I do have interest in it - it would be quite nice if you posted it. If it's too big as well, split it in half, perhaps, and might be easier that way. Might be wrong. But that would work out just fine - I'll be waiting for you to post it. =)

HELLO MY FRIENDS I LIKE PIE!

Hello, I guess. =P

[Alyska]

Okay, here's something I've been thinking about for a while...Top 6 Shows, Books, and Movies of the Last Five Years that are Changing the Role of Women in Fiction(In approximate chronological order)1. Avatar: the Last Airbender (TV series)Despite having a male lead, this series is notable for having a high level of gender equality- both in terms of quality and quantity. The main cast has an even gender split, and the writers were creative enough to challenge the traditional "Five Man Band" model when designing the characters. The "Big Guy" of the group was originally going to be a tough, Pohatu-like, muscular male bruiser with a sarcastic wit named Toph. When the time came to write Season 2, however, it became apparent that they needed to target a female audience more. So, Toph was reworked into a tiny, adorable little blind girl... without changing the character's personality at all. And it was awesome. The end.Well, not quite the end. The series also provided a great female villain in the form of Azula (who was originally going to be Prince Azul), and passes the Bechdel Test with flying colours. And not only is the main cast half female, most of the background characters are, too! This is in a medieval-Asia-esque warzone environment- female soldiers are everywhere, and no-one in the series makes a big deal of it! This is the way it should be. I shouldn't even be pointing this out- it should just be accepted, and, well, expected that shows in the 21st century are using female characters in this manner.The series has spawned a spin-off, The Legend of Korra, featuring a new, female Avatar who, by most reports, is popular with both boys and girls alike, countering the traditional idea that girls will watch shows with a male lead, but boys won't watch a show with a female one.2. Twilight (book/film)Hey, I said these things changed the role of women in fiction. I never said that they were good role models, or that I liked them.Regardless of what you think of the Twilight Saga, it was one of the first films of the decade to illustrate the potential of a blockbuster film series aimed at a female audience, which, prior to that, was unheard of.Twilight has inspired a number of other action-romance-fantasy films featuring female protagonists attempting to imitate its success, including the recent wave of fairy-tale based films. Many of these followers actually work to provide stronger, proactive lead characters, improving somewhat on Twilight's rather passive Bella. The Hunger Games film would probably not exist (at least, not with the same budget and box office success) had it not been for Twilight. Think about that, feminists!3. My Little Pony Friendship is Magic (TV series).And, now, the other Twilight that sparkles...This show has single-handedly demolished the perception that cartoons aimed at little girls are automatically inferior to those for boys. This was completely deliberate on the part of the creator, Lauren Faust, but not even she could have predicted the huge success it would have among fans of all ages and genders. This was an odd example of a franchise actually benefiting from negative brand association- the earlier MLP incarnations were considered so insipid and ridiculous, that the hype surrounding the new incarnation sparked the curiosity of many, and the fanbase rapidly increased in size through word-of-mouth.While it's still early days yet, the success of the show has prompted Cartoon Network to commission a series of superhero shorts with an all-female cast from Faust (this is the same network that previously reject any of her ideas that even had a female lead). MLP: FiM will no doubt light the way for other girl-centric cartoons with strong characters, engaging storylines, and clever humour.4. Bridesmaids (film)And now to a very different genre we never thought we'd see women in: The gross-out comedy.I'm not going to go into details of the film because of the nature of this site, but if you're over fifteen, and enjoy the likes of Judd Apatow, I would highly recommend it. There has always been a reluctance in Hollywood to put women in disgusting situations (even admitting that women fart seems to be off-limits), since women are always supposed to be these pristine, pure goddesses. Even in films aimed at women (read: Chick flicks), their lives seem unrealistically glamorous and idealised, functioning as wish-fulfilment for the audience like a grown-up version of Barbie. This film did an excellent job of making the characters feel like real people, and entertaining ones at that.Once again, it's early days yet, but the film is scheduled to get a sequel. The producer, Judd Apatow, also has a new TV series with a female lead in the works, so hopefully, it will inspire many more female-centric comedies that contain, y'know, actual comedy.5. The Hunger Games (book/film)This is the legacy of Twilight evolving into something more substantial for the female audience, while also drawing in a significant male following at the same time. Now one of the highest -grossing films of all time, The Hunger Games has well and truly established that yes, both male and female audiences will respond positively to and identify with a proactive, intelligent female character who takes her destiny into her own hands.It is difficult to track the influence of a film that only came out this year, but needless to say, the studio has already signed up for a sequel.6. Brave (film)Katniss will soon have another teenaged rebel with a bow to compete with, in the form of Merida from Pixar's Brave. The first of Pixar's films to feature a female lead (only took 'em fifteen years). Yes, she's a princess, but a very reluctant and wild one, which could serve as an interesting reconstruction of the Disney Princess films. Prior to this film, you could probably count all the mainstream animated films of the last five years with female leads on one hand. Plot details are vague at this stage, but what we've seen so far indicate that the film will be a strong addition to Pixar's lineup.Disney as a whole has been shying away from their signature fairy-tale princess films, and films with female leads in general recently, so this film might encourage a change of heart from them. But at the same time, it would also be nice to see this film inspire more films from Disney, Pixar and other animation companies that star female leads in a wide range of styles and genres... some of which could even be about something other than princesses!---Phew! Sore fingers...Okay, thoughts? Does anyone have a suggestion for something they think should be on the list?

Edited June 1, 2012 by Alyska

[Peach 00]

OK, I must say that is an impressive list. And I must thank you a few dozen times for bringing back the topic since it almost died - thanks again. :)Having not seen any of the films/TV series or read any of the books mentioned above, I can't necessarily agree/disagree with you. However, I have to give at least my opinion on The Hunger Games. My opinion can't exactly be accurate, since I haven't read the book or seen the movie, but I'm going to be talking about what I've heard about the movie/book's plot and the lead as opposed to how the movie/book was.My main problem with The Hunger Games, as with any book or movie, is the insistency by fans, saying repeatedly that it is the best dang book/movie on the planet and that everybody should read the book and watch the movie a few thousand times. They don't go into exact detail about why it is so good, but just that you should see it/read it because it is awesome and terrific. So, simplified, the hype about it and about how everybody raves with constructive detail about it's 'greatness'.However, by looking past that and the incessant amount of useless plot detail, you can simplify the plot of a movie to make it understandable, and actually see it is not half bad. If somebody did that with The Hunger Games as opposed to adding all the useless details that doesn't fully add anything to the plot, then I could see the reason it could be good.A similar situation with Twilight - a friend of mine summed it up for me. By looking past the vampires/wolves concept and making it into this weird romance between a girl and her neighborhood vampire and local wolf-boy, you can see it is a simple young girl at a crossroads trying to make the decision between two guys she likes - a crossroads we all reach at some point in life, trying to decide who you want as a friend and who you want as a partner in a marriage/relationship in general. A semi-Romeo & Juliet situation as well, as families (from what I think is the situation, my viewpoint of what the story is could be innaccurate) seek disapproval due to the strange romance.By taking away all the vampires and wolves and just really strange story background from it, you get a much easier to understand story that could be mildly enjoyable. If you do something similar to that with The Hunger Games, I think you could get a better result than teens killing each other violently.I can't exactly think of any movies/books/TV shows to add to the list, with the exception of one book: True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle. She is a young girl on a ship on a long journey, set with an all-male crew. Not wanting to spoil it for those who haven't read it, but those who have read it get why I mentioned it. The girl becomes a very different person throughout the book, from a pristine, slightly spoiled child to becoming a part of the crew. Although it hasn't been made in the past five years, the movie is coming out this year or the next, so it is being made and will be released sometime this year with any luck, if that counts.Anyhow, I can't think of any additions to the list. Thanks again for bringing back the topic, Alyska.

[Alyska]

Yeah, I don't really consider myself a fan of THG or Twilight as I've said before, but the list is more about the impact and influence that these works have had on the industry. They've helped show that films about women can be commercially successful, which is a huge step forward for Hollywood, regardless of what people say about the content of the films. And some of the movies that follow in their wake will hopefully not include sparkly vampires or children killing each other for sport. Whether you love them or hate them, or just couldn't care less, these films are all steps in the right direction. I think this is going to bee a good decade for women in cinema.

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

Interesting that you bring up female roles in fiction. I would also suggest adding Alien to the list if you agree, if you have seen it. I can agree with the list posted above, as otherwise a lot of fiction with female characters can go into the "not important" category, be a strawman attack on men (more rare), or it turns into one of those girl power episodes...that aren't executed properly and not taken seriously. I am not saying that good female characters are hard to find or don't exist, though I might as well make my own list.1-Alien: Here the protagonist is a heroine who seems to be the voice of reason in quite a few parts of the movie. She is also not played up sexually, looking pretty ordinary, save for a seen at the end, but that particular scene pulls a total u-turn.2-Halo: There are a few, Cortana is an obvious one, though special mention to Dr. Halsey who actually made the supersoldiers that you usually play as, she also made Cortana and is portrayed as the smartest human in the series, she arguably becomes a tragic heroine towards the end. Then there was also Kelly and Linda from the books (who are the fastest and most accurate spartans respectively). Possibly The Librarian fits here too, as well as possibly Noble 6 as your gender is customizable in Reach. Overall females tend to be well represented in Bungie games, to the extent that there is no gender gameplay difference and (until Reach) you could not tell the difference between male and female armor from the outside.3-Dead Space: Specifically Dead Space 2 with Ellie, being a significant help throughout the game and was vital the Issac's success. Bonus points to her that she is the only survivor of her original team, can actually hold her own in a fight, and never really lost it emotionally or had too much of a breakdown.I might add more as I think of them. Though be aware I was not really making this for media that was changing the stereotype, more rather just media where the portrayal of them is pretty good (or at least so I remember).An interesting thing from Military history that I don't think too many people knew about was an elite army comprised solely of women who existed until the 19th century (the last one died on 1979), trained furiously. They lived in Africa and were called the Dahomey Amazons, and they were good enough to earn the respect of their fellow men in the army as well as the french army, whom they fought. Eventually they were defeated by the french, but the french had great respect for them none-the-less, and at times in the war they could even win some battles, something not too many african armies could boast about.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Proud Stigma

[Kaleidoscope Tekulo]

Women in fiction, eh?Korra. Korra again. Korra a third time. And then Asami.I love the friendship between these two. It's still in the beginning stages and it's subtle, but they foil each other pretty well. Asami is very much a girly-girl and Korra's first impression of her is "prissy." Later it's revealed that Asami was trained in self defense since she was a girl and she proves to be pretty formidable. She even had Korra considering to use make-up. Korra vs. Makeup is a personal favorite scene of mine. XDNot to mention Lin Befong. She's the daughter of Toph and she certainly inherited the awesome gene (and the metalbending knowledge). She's extremely tough and prepared for anything. It's wonderful. She even proves to be a good foil to Tenzin, Aang's son, as he's generally passive. The show is not only showing a diverse female cast, but a diverse male cast as well (I could go on about Mako and Bolin, but I think I'll save that for another time. XP. Not to mention Korra made Bolin cry standing over ten feet away from him. Dang, girl, you're tough! XP).Then there are other women in fantasy like Professor Layton. Flora Reinhold; I wish we could see more of her in the games. She seems very lady-like and childish, but her past gives her a bit of potential. And then in the second game of the series, there's a character named Sophia. She was an old woman who had passed away a year ago, but even though she is gone her character is still my favorite of the games so far. The Layton series has a very colorful cast of background characters in all shapes, sizes and personalities, and Sophia certainly doesn't disappoint. On that note, her granddaughter, Katia is also interesting, though you can't really compare the two outside of looks and family.Then there's Princess Tutu, a wonderful show. It's a show that centers around ballet and centers around the concept of a simple duck that turns into a girl/princess and falls in love with a prince. Flowers are everywhere in the series and the protagonist, Duck (she's a duck and her name is duck or Ahiru in the Japanese version), sports the color pink when she transforms into Princess Tutu. Totally girly, right? Boring and stereotypical for sure, correct? There is no way anything like this could possibly be taken seriously, affirmative? There is no way anyone could possibly like thi- okay, yeah, you get it, it's wonderful and a half. Seriously. There is so much character development in this show that it's hard to judge the story by it's cover after you've finished the series. It's only 26 episodes and I recommend it to everyone.The protagonist, Duck, is very ditzy, spacey and all around awkward. She's not too good at speaking formally and she is often told that she acts like a duck (the dramatic irony!) and she is terrible at ballet despite her efforts to improve. When she's a princess she's more or less the opposite of that. She's very formal, girly and she's so graceful that she can dance any dance she wants. As if having two identities weren't bad enough, she's also a bird on top of all of it, so she really struggles with her identity which really develops over the course of the story. Her duty is to return the shards of the prince's heart so he can regain his emotions such as joy, sorrow and love. Her motive for this? The prince's eyes always look so loney. Her only wish is to put a smile back on his face. However, she is told that when she confesses her love to the prince, she will turn into a speck of light and vanish (which is inevitable). Rue, the antagonist, is very lady-like. She's a human girl and she's very calm and collected. She's a wonderful ballet dancer and it shows. She also loves the prince and she wants his love for herself. When she sees the prince growing attached to Tutu, she decides she must act as she fears the prince will realize his love belongs to the princess.That's all for now. I can't think of too many others.

[Alyska]

I kept the list restricted to the last five years, partly because if it was open it could end up with hundreds of examples. But also partly because I think the Noughties suffered a bit of a slump in women with prominent roles.The "girl power" movement seemed to dry up towards the late Nineties, with the phrase itself coming across as cliched and dated. Feminism was no longer fashionable. Throughout the new tens, there were a few attempts to make films about female superheroes, such as Elektra and Catwoman, which were generally disastrous. It was then concluded that audiences didn't want to see women in lead roles (of course that's the problem! Not the fact that they were terrible movies that substituted fanservice for plot! It's the fact that they were about WOMEN), with at least one studio outright announcing that they didn't want to make films with female leads any more. The fact that LEGO's only attempt to appeal to girls throughout that entire decade was Clikits certainly says something.And that's another reason why I've restricted it to the last five years- while the likes of Alien certainly made a difference at the time, things have arguably gone backwards since then until relatively recently.I've left out anime and video games, partly because I'm not very familiar with those media. But another thing is that anime typically does not have much of an impact on Western culture and media, with the exceptions of Studio Ghibli's films and a few Saturday-morning cartoon type shows that get dubbed into English for kids (Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Beyblade, etc). So while many works may have strong female characters, the list is about the impact that the works have had (Note the inclusion of Twilight on the list). I also don't know enough about anime to definitively say which works have influenced the portrayal of women the most as far as Japanese media goes. Video games are a complicated one, especially when it comes to player characters. In most of these cases, the character is not making any independent decisions of her own, and is merely doing what the player makes her do. I suppose a case can be made for some NPCs, though. But, once again, I don't think video games have much of a wide-ranging impact, until they get turned into bad movies that set us back another ten years.But thank you for all the suggestions! I will have to check some of these games/movies/shows out sometime...

[Scanty Demon]

Alyska it should be noted that Twilight became the highest grossing film directed by a woman (the previous I believe was "Impact"). The more you know!Also is just me or does every single female character in a team where she is the only girl has to be the mature down to earth type. I mean how can you really get some development with that type of personality? Which maybe why I find Kiina a little refreashing in Bionicle.

[Kaleidoscope Tekulo]

Actually, video games appear to be turning more towards a female spectrum. For example, in Pokemon it is now possible to select your player's gender (and it's been that way since Pokemon Crystal. Though, the earlier games in that series such as Gold and Silver did not have the gender option, so if you wanted to trade between Crystal and Gold, or Crystal and Silver, Nurse Joy would stop the female character and change her into the boy sprite and ask "How does this style look to you?" XD).There are also other games such as Bayonetta (which combines plot and fanservice pretty well actually. XD). I have yet to play that game, though it does look interesting.Then the later Fables games also allow you the option for a female character, and in Fable the game features a special trait where you control your character's appearance. You could have your character eat a lot and gain weight, slay monsters and be active to stay fit, muscle build, get tattoos, etc. In the first Fable game you could only play as a man, so it's actually taken a nice step (though I admit I've only played the first Fable game myself). I wouldn't say it's uncommon to find a female protagonist in a video game or at least a video game without a decent female character in regards to the plot. This is where the mainstream media has a blindspot. People still roll their eyes at things like video games and Anime. I had a hard time convincing a friend that an anime version of Les Miserables (Shoujo Cosette; a fantastic adaptation of the story and far better than the movie) was actually good quality. In fact, I believe I failed to convince my friend at all. XD Try being an anime fan and recommend to your non-anime friends that any show you like is good. You'll have a rough time about it. Though, with conventions and cosplaying, I'd say there's a fair amount of people who may be shying away from mainstream media and taking up other media (I know I am. XP I still have yet to see The Avengers and I don't plan to in the future. Not to mention I'm sick of the news, pop-culture music and gossip radio talk. I really can't stand that stuff. =/).

[Taka Nuvia]

[...]I wouldn't say it's uncommon to find a female protagonist in a video game or at least a video game without a decent female character in regards to the plot. This is where the mainstream media has a blindspot. People still roll their eyes at things like video games and Anime. I had a hard time convincing a friend that an anime version of Les Miserables (Shoujo Cosette; a fantastic adaptation of the story and far better than the movie) was actually good quality. In fact, I believe I failed to convince my friend at all. XD Try being an anime fan and recommend to your non-anime friends that any show you like is good. You'll have a rough time about it. Though, with conventions and cosplaying, I'd say there's a fair amount of people who may be shying away from mainstream media and taking up other media (I know I am. XP I still have yet to see The Avengers and I don't plan to in the future. Not to mention I'm sick of the news, pop-culture music and gossip radio talk. I really can't stand that stuff. =/).

I am still quite surprised by the low acceptance by the masses when it comes to video games. Then again, I'm generally surprised by the lack of acceptance and tolerance... long story.Anyways, even though I am always happy if there is the chance to play as a female character, I don't mind playing as a male hero, either. :shurgs: Am I alone with that opinion? O.oI'm not sure whether everything that is mainstream is bad just because of that, though. Just as not everything is good just because it's anime or similar.

[Kaleidoscope Tekulo]

I am still quite surprised by the low acceptance by the masses when it comes to video games. Then again, I'm generally surprised by the lack of acceptance and tolerance... long story.Anyways, even though I am always happy if there is the chance to play as a female character, I don't mind playing as a male hero, either. :shurgs: Am I alone with that opinion? O.oI'm not sure whether everything that is mainstream is bad just because of that, though. Just as not everything is good just because it's anime or similar.

I actually don't mind playing as either gender. Though aside from Bayonetta, video games where you only play as a female character don't come to mind. Not that that's bad or good, it's just one of those "now that you mention it..." Or I could be wrong. XDAnd I didn't mean all things mainstream media are horrendously horrible and should be buried far into the earth's mantle where they will never ever see the light of day again... -gasp- but modern things like Jersey Shore, Lady Gaga, Hollywood movies, etc just bore me to tears it seems. Still, I do like some artists such as... ... ... uh... a few Taylor Swift songs? ^^' XD Though, I like more of the classic stuff like Queen when it comes to music or Bonnie Tyler (if that's her name anyway. XP). Not to mention The Looking Glass. (Brandy, you're a fine girl indeed. <3).

[Taka Nuvia]

I actually don't mind playing as either gender. Though aside from Bayonetta, video games where you only play as a female character don't come to mind. Not that that's bad or good, it's just one of those "now that you mention it..." Or I could be wrong. XDAnd I didn't mean all things mainstream media are horrendously horrible and should be buried far into the earth's mantle where they will never ever see the light of day again... -gasp- but modern things like Jersey Shore, Lady Gaga, Hollywood movies, etc just bore me to tears it seems. Still, I do like some artists such as... ... ... uh... a few Taylor Swift songs? ^^' XD Though, I like more of the classic stuff like Queen when it comes to music or Bonnie Tyler (if that's her name anyway. XP). Not to mention The Looking Glass. (Brandy, you're a fine girl indeed. <3).

... "now that you mention it", indeed. O.oAlthough I am sure there was something... gimme some time for research? D:Oh, that's the mainstream you speak of. Okay, that I don't like either.Except for the Hollywood movies; some can be good, too. It really depends...Bonnie Tyler? I would so high-five you right now. ^^

[Kaleidoscope Tekulo]

Total Eclipse of the Heart. ^^ Oh, and Holding Out for a Hero (though, Jennifer Saunders did a wonderful cover in Shrek 2).Also, Metroid games. Knew I was missing a female video game protagonist. That's one video game (Bayonetta) and one series (Metroid) where you only play as a female. XD

Edited June 3, 2012 by Tekulo: Toa of the Breeze

[VeoiTheRascal]

Don't forget Portal 1 and 2!And that, I'm afraid, is my input on all things video games. Oh, and Shepard... was s/he in Mass Effect? I can't remember if that was already mentioned. @ Alyska: Don't get your hopes up on Anime. Japan as a whole has a surprisingly archaic view when it comes to women gender rolls and equality and it shows in Anime. Granted, there are awesome shows out there that have awesome female protagonists that are of a higher quality. For example, ジブリ(Ghibli's) first movie, 風の谷のナウシカ (Nausica of the wind?) was a bit of a rarity at the time in that the protagonist was female and could kick serious butt! There was nothing funky to try and make Nausica (the protagonist) more 'feminine' and she was just... a cool character. There is also 千と千尋の神隠し (Spirited Away) and 魔女の宅配便 (Kiki's delivery serves) also from ジブリ, 精霊の守人 (Literally: Guardian's of the Spirits but you can probably find it as Moribito) with beautiful style and an awesome protagonist, 魔法少女マドカマジカ (Puila magika) in that it turns the 'Magic girl' genre upside down and a few others if I scrounge around a bit. Another thing about Anime is that it tends to be a bit 'fan servesy', which leads to cheesecake or enormous boobs or both. So, if you want to look up some anime, here's a few right here! ;-D

Edited June 13, 2012 by VeoiTheRascal

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

For anime, I found that the To Aru Majutsu-series was not that terrible, granted, there was a few fan service-scenes but it was generally very light on those, though again you had the occasional moment. On the other hand, Shigofumi had a very good female characters (including the protagonist) who actually manage to avoid fanservice and give a compelling character.