Redundant Mask Powers.

[Taipu1]

I felt this was separate from the worst powers topic, as I'm not asking which powers are worse. Does anyone else think there are a few powers that when they came out were a bit too similar or made pointless by powers that came out previously, or ones that came out later. I think the obvious example is the Volitak, which is kind of inferior to the Huna. Then there's also the Kadin and the Miru, which both basically enable flight, except as far as i can tell the Kadin is better.So thoughts?

[bonesiii]

As usual with these topics it depends on if you want story accuracy or to just compose the most efficient power lists for fans. In-story there are infinite possible varieties of masks to it's inevitable that some overlap more than others, and masks are their faces, so having a wider variety of faces possible for the same basic function of power makes a ton of sense. And each is usually better in a different circumstance. Among the many possible events in the thousands of years of MU history surely uses for each of the masks have come up often. :)Some do get a little too repetitive for fans' sakes to actually pick for the sets though, and could have been left just implied to exist in the infinite possible range or somewhere out there in the MU. But in general a wider variety with "variations on themes" is very good IMO. :)The Kadin/Miru thing has been debunked many times. Kadin only allows airplane-style flight, not hovering, so for some uses a Miru is better. Greg's stock example was if you needed to retrieve a mask from the roof of a cave; Kadin would risk you getting impaled on the stalactites.Also the Volitak gave silence too. In water, which can distort images over not much distance, it made perfect sense, and in dim lighting as an Onu-Toa might be in a lot it also makes sense. Better than the Huna in those situations. Huna would be better in air, with some lighting, sneaking carefully, but among trees or the like. Neither would be very good on an open rocky plain for example.

[Toa Of Virtues]

I always felt like the mask of night vision was similar to the mask of light in some ways. Obviously they had many differences, but they both could give off a bright light to either see in the dark, or blind enemies. On that note, the mask of night vision was also similar to the nuva mask of x-ray vision, since both could let others see things you wouldn't normally see. Although I'm not sure if the mask of x-ray vision could also see in the dark, I would assume it could since it can see into ground where there is no light.

[Ranaki_Pakewa]

The mask of light gives the user the elemental powers of light, and it could spread understanding, while the mask of night vision was only able to shine light. Also the mask of x-ray vision is able to see through things, not make them visible. The mask of x-ray vision also was sometimes given lenses for telescopic vision.

[bonesiii]

The interesting thing about the Ruru/Avhokii complaint is that it never showed up in 2003; it was only in 2004 when we saw the Great Ruru get some expanded powers from the Noble that anybody thought it was too much like the Avhokii. Yet in 2003 the Avhokii was even more useful for seeing in the dark than the Noble Ruru.So I think there was really no way around this; the Ruru was already established and accepted by fans as Whenua's mask in 2001, and the Avhokii was accepted by fans as well. Great-ifying night vision required some kind of expanded powers, IMO; just saying "he could still just see in the dark but a little better" wouldn't have been as acceptable to us (right?). So the overlap sort of snuck up on us but what alternative was there really? (Maybe there is one, but nobody seems to suggest one ever. )

[Toa Zaz]

So, what's the point of an Akaku if a Ruru can do the same thing, and more?

Edited July 10, 2012 by Toa Zaz

[Click]

The Ruru has very limited X-Ray vision, while the Akaku is a lot stronger.EDIT: Ha, Ninja'd Bonesii!

Edited July 10, 2012 by Click

[bonesiii]

So, what's the point of an Akaku if a Ruru can do the same thing, and more?

The Ruru only enables a limited version of what the Akaku can do; in that role the Akaku is far more useful. Still, I agree that that particular expansion was a stretch for the Ruru, and it confused nearly everybody at the time. Just enabling him to light up the room versus only him being able to see in the dark would have been enough IMO. I think they only added that so they could do that one movie scene, but they could have found a better way to make that discovery.Edit: Lol @ being Ninja'd. Edited July 10, 2012 by bonesiii

[Nuparu1995]

The Crast and the Hau kind of do, in how they are used for defensive purposes.

[Axilus Prime]

The Hau is a solid shield protecting from all directions providing you are expecting attack, and the Crast repulses things specifically. Quite a long distance if need be, at least in proportion.Anyway, the Volitak has a near-silencer effect, and less invisibility. You need to actually try to be stealthy for the mask to make you stealthy.I found the Ruru redundant in LOMN at first, and the standard night vision was never displayed. That was annoying, but it does have much weaker light and X-ray, as previously stated.The most redundant mask, though, is the Mask of Conjuring. It repeats just about everything! (Plus a few more.) Eh, just kidding. Though when looked at a certain way, it is the most redundant.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Why use an Arthron (Mask of Sonar) when you can use a Ruru (Mask of Night Vision)?

[bonesiii]

Why use an Arthron (Mask of Sonar) when you can use a Ruru (Mask of Night Vision)?

Fog, underwater, etc. would obscure night vision more. Also, this is a typical fallacy of assuming that all masks are always available. If all you had was an Arthron, you wouldn't act like a fan and refuse to use it, go out looking for a Ruru to use instead, even for mere dark lighting. You would use what you have. :PBut again, I think the point of the Arthron was simply that it was an underwater setting, and sonar is very thematic for underwater.

[CeeCee]

The Kaukau after all the Mahrii masks

[The Iron Toa]

Anyway, the Volitak has a near-silencer effect, and less invisibility. You need to actually try to be stealthy for the mask to make you stealthy.

Ah, I wondered in what way the Huna could possibly be better. I thought they both made you equally invisible.

Why use an Arthron (Mask of Sonar) when you can use a Ruru (Mask of Night Vision)?

What if you were blind (and did not have natural echolocation)? Edited July 11, 2012 by The Iron Toa

[CeeCee]

Anyway, the Volitak has a near-silencer effect, and less invisibility. You need to actually try to be stealthy for the mask to make you stealthy.

Ah, I wondered in what way the Huna could possibly be better. I thought they both made you equally invisible.

Why use an Arthron (Mask of Sonar) when you can use a Ruru (Mask of Night Vision)?

What if you were blind (and did not have natural echolocation)?

Ruru would not help you see through fog or smoke. Also it would be useless in the day. Arthron wouldnt be

[bonesiii]

The Kaukau after all the Mahrii masks

The Mahri masks did not have water-breathing powers. The Mahri were mutated to be water breathers. (For 2007's plot.) I don't know if Hahli's might be an exception, but in any case, the masks were not how they breathed.

[fishers64]

The Kaukau after all the Mahrii masks

The Mahri masks did not have water-breathing powers. The Mahri were mutated to be water breathers. (For 2007's plot.) I don't know if Hahli's might be an exception, but in any case, the masks were not how they breathed.

Hahli's Faxon would have allowed her to breathe water, seeing as she was around water-breathing Rahi, I think. But the Kaukau would have been redundant in that situation, but it was not in that situation - none of the Mahri had Kaukaus. Additionally, a Kaukau would be redundant to the now amphibious Mahri, but other Toa, including Gali who now has the Kaukau.

[Katuko]

Fog, underwater, etc. would obscure night vision more. Also, this is a typical fallacy of assuming that all masks are always available. If all you had was an Arthron, you wouldn't act like a fan and refuse to use it, go out looking for a Ruru to use instead, even for mere dark lighting. You would use what you have.

Add to that the fact that an Arthron can see even invisible beings. Presumably sound would still bounce off them even if light is diverted, and they can be bumped into and cast a shadow while invisible.Interestingly enough, this means that if it's pitch black and your enemy has a Ruru, then you want a Huna... but if it's pitch black and your enemy has an Arthron, you want a Mask of Intangibility instead.I don't see any mask power as redundant, since they all have their uses. Even the Mask of Biomechanics, which seems to be just a mish-mash of other powers, at least offers the opportunity of being decent at several powers versus great at one. I do wish some mask powers didn't exist, though. The Mask of Possibilities comes to mind. It's just the Mask of Contrived Plot Coincidences in my mind, especially since virtually everything has a chance of happening if you define it one way, and that either lets the mask do anything, or it only lets it do very specific things than can be argued about (such as "if I have a crack in my armor, does that really mean that my armor has a chance of spontaneous fracture, or does it just mean that it's weakened as it's obviously otherwise stable?"). Edited July 14, 2012 by Katuko

[Touko Fukawa]

I've always felt that the Mask of Emulation was a lot less useful than the Mask of Conjuring, as you could get any power you could with the former, and more, from the latter.

[Katuko]

It takes longer to program and you have to state your new power and weaknesses out loud, though.

[Makuta Matata]

Can't remember the names, but the Mask of Invisibility and the Mask of Stealth. Whats the difference?

[bonesiii]

I've always felt that the Mask of Emulation was a lot less useful than the Mask of Conjuring, as you could get any power you could with the former, and more, from the latter.

It takes longer to program and you have to state your new power and weaknesses out loud, though.

And there's the risk of going nuts if you make a mistake. Basically, the two are balanced. In some situations one would be better; in others the other.Emulation would be better if your enemy had a power you could easily use against him. If not, Conjuring, basically.Also, I would imagine that by now there's been enough users of Conjuring who've experimented, some learned the hard way, that there must be a sort of library of exact phrases, perhaps a tablet that might be copied and sold to users, that will produce commonly desired powers if spoken correctly. If they memorized these, which isn't all that difficult, they could quickly and relatively safely recite them as needed.

Can't remember the names, but the Mask of Invisibility and the Mask of Stealth. Whats the difference?

Huna and Volitak. They have already been explained in above posts. Basically Huna is nearly full invisibility (though with shadow) but no silence. Volitak is silence plus partial invisibility. Edited July 16, 2012 by bonesiii

[Makuta Matata]

Can't remember the names, but the Mask of Invisibility and the Mask of Stealth. Whats the difference?

Huna and Volitak. They have already been explained in above posts. Basically Huna is nearly full invisibility (though with shadow) but no silence. Volitak is silence plus partial invisibility.

So, you can still see a Volitak user if you look hard enough?

[bonesiii]

In broad daylight and in clear air, yes.