Age 13+ Forum?

[HordikaMode]

IDEA: scan or take a picture of your birth certificate or some form of identification and use it as proof of age to speak with Greg.

[Argentum]

IDEA: scan or take a picture of your birth certificate or some form of identification and use it as proof of age to speak with Greg.

That could lead to identity theft, though, which is even worse than talking to 11 year olds when you're 45. ~Argentum~

[Klak]

I'm in favor for having some kind of 13+ forum or topic. A big problem I have with this site is the number of younger members and a prohibition of anything to "mature". I really think that this kind of restriction would be a step in the right direction. Rivin

But that's what made this site what it is, and this site WAS made towards lego fans, not towards "Mature" content. I think it's kept the site classy.

I'm still trying to figure out why LEGO would implement such a silly rule. What are the worried about if Greg talks to a twelve year old?

Even though Greg works for LEGO and is most likely not going to try and find people and kidnap them, he is a 45 year old man. It's just safer that people 13 and under don't talk to him. LEGO, BZPower, or any other site Greg is on, can't know what he is talking about with people. Another thing that is a main factor, is most people above 13 year of age, have matured more than people under 13. A lot of 12 year olds wouldn't be smart enough, or mature enough to comprehend some of the things a kidnapper or some other kind of criminal would say. If a criminal said, "Hey, wanna go meet me at the park? I can give you tons of candy," most kids under 13 would agree. That is not saying that Greg is some kind of criminal and most likely he is not. But it is a precaution, that I think is very necessary. -Rez

Well by that logic, everybody over the age of 18 should be banned from talking to minors.I know that predators exist on the internet, and I know there are measure needed to make sure their goals are not easy but banning discussion of any kind when the target audience is 12 years and under is just silly.

Guys, remember, LEGO is trying to revise their policy, which translates to "change at some point in the near future". The discussion that's been going on since the policy was announced has brought out one sole fact; you can't be sure of a person's age in the internet, and the whole idea of the 13+ forum is silly by itself. BZPower will be adjusting to the new policy as soon as possible, so there's no reason to be upset about this matter right now.

I'll agree with Rausaro and Riglax, that way I'll establish my take on this. As for those wanting a MATURE forum, we need to be careful how far we take this. Already, people are crossing the line in BZP. Imagine if this site lifted some of its restrictions on obscenity? Now it may seem like a dreadful and extreme conclusion, but I don't want a BZPchan anytime soon. Edited October 16, 2011 by MakutaKlak

[Phovos]

It wouldn't work, full stop.The internet is full of liars. You can lie on BZP, you can lie on your email address. You can lie anywhere.As for LEGO's policy, it's one of those rules like SONY's current "You can't sue us" policy because they don't want to get sued for a mistake.

[GeluNumber1]

Well, don't expect anyting to come of it. It's being reversed. I'm gald, too. It's just useless, in my opinion.

[Kevin Owens]

I'll agree with Rausaro and Riglax, that way I'll establish my take on this. As for those wanting a MATURE forum, we need to be careful how far we take this. Already, people are crossing the line in BZP. Imagine if this site lifted some of its restrictions on obscenity? Now it may seem like a dreadful and extreme conclusion, but I don't want a BZPchan anytime soon.

Black Six has stated before that there will be no 'mature forum' on BZPower. We are a family friendly site, and we intend to stay that way.

Well, don't expect anyting to come of it. It's being reversed. I'm gald, too. It's just useless, in my opinion.

Lego has not yet stated whether or not the actual policy was going to be reversed. All they've said is that the policy is currently being revised.

[Akuna Toa of Sonics]

Just like those videos requesting that you be 18 and over, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

[Padishah Mehmet II]

Honestly? Thank Lego for this new policy of theirs. It'll give us a chance to stop trying to get every stupid idea, and the stupid ones in particular, canon.-Dovydas

Edited October 18, 2011 by Dovydas the Nerevarine

[Toa Zaz]

I'm still trying to figure out why LEGO would implement such a silly rule. What are the worried about if Greg talks to a twelve year old?

Even though Greg works for LEGO and is most likely not going to try and find people and kidnap them, he is a 45 year old man. It's just safer that people 13 and under don't talk to him. LEGO, BZPower, or any other site Greg is on, can't know what he is talking about with people. Another thing that is a main factor, is most people above 13 year of age, have matured more than people under 13. A lot of 12 year olds wouldn't be smart enough, or mature enough to comprehend some of the things a kidnapper or some other kind of criminal would say. If a criminal said, "Hey, wanna go meet me at the park? I can give you tons of candy," most kids under 13 would agree. That is not saying that Greg is some kind of criminal and most likely he is not. But it is a precaution, that I think is very necessary. -Rez

You must know a lot of really stupid twelve year olds. I think they should just lift the pm ban and be done with it. I think Lego just doesn't want to bother with any responsibility for anything.

[Kaxix]

No, there is no point in having a 13+ forum since there wouldn't be any way to check that.I'm fine with the "Greg team". It is a pity but I don't think there is much we can do.

[Toa Zaz]

I'm in favor for having some kind of 13+ forum or topic. A big problem I have with this site is the number of younger members and a prohibition of anything to "mature". I really think that this kind of restriction would be a step in the right direction. Rivin

But that's what made this site what it is, and this site WAS made towards lego fans, not towards "Mature" content. I think it's kept the site classy.

I'm still trying to figure out why LEGO would implement such a silly rule. What are the worried about if Greg talks to a twelve year old?

Even though Greg works for LEGO and is most likely not going to try and find people and kidnap them, he is a 45 year old man. It's just safer that people 13 and under don't talk to him. LEGO, BZPower, or any other site Greg is on, can't know what he is talking about with people. Another thing that is a main factor, is most people above 13 year of age, have matured more than people under 13. A lot of 12 year olds wouldn't be smart enough, or mature enough to comprehend some of the things a kidnapper or some other kind of criminal would say. If a criminal said, "Hey, wanna go meet me at the park? I can give you tons of candy," most kids under 13 would agree. That is not saying that Greg is some kind of criminal and most likely he is not. But it is a precaution, that I think is very necessary. -Rez

Well by that logic, everybody over the age of 18 should be banned from talking to minors.I know that predators exist on the internet, and I know there are measure needed to make sure their goals are not easy but banning discussion of any kind when the target audience is 12 years and under is just silly.

Guys, remember, LEGO is trying to revise their policy, which translates to "change at some point in the near future". The discussion that's been going on since the policy was announced has brought out one sole fact; you can't be sure of a person's age in the internet, and the whole idea of the 13+ forum is silly by itself. BZPower will be adjusting to the new policy as soon as possible, so there's no reason to be upset about this matter right now.

I'll agree with Rausaro and Riglax, that way I'll establish my take on this. As for those wanting a MATURE forum, we need to be careful how far we take this. Already, people are crossing the line in BZP. Imagine if this site lifted some of its restrictions on obscenity? Now it may seem like a dreadful and extreme conclusion, but I don't want a BZPchan anytime soon.

I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

[Taka Nuvia]

[...]I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

I disagree. You can always discuss something, and most of the time swearing or picspam just isn't needed.... Edited October 18, 2011 by Taka Nuvia

[toa ordaku]

I am trully 14, if you want I'll take a photo of my document to prove it.

I think that would be invasion of privacy, as well as something that shouldn't be posted on the internet. I appreciate your sincerity!

[Ryan T. Loveless]

The idea of an age restricted forum is something I encountered on another forum, one which I have been apart for many years as well. But considering the content of such a forum was meant for 13+, the restricted forum was 18+. But considering ANYTHING LEGO is geared towards Under 12, the idea of age restriction is HIGHLY unlikely. Though most people who got into Bionicle when it first came out are now OVER the age of 18. I myself being one of those people at the age of 20. (Now I feel like an old geezer, thanks guys)

[Aanchir]

Greg can't even talk to BZPers 13+ because we cannot prove that we are 13+! http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/angry.png Lego was always aimed at children under 12, so it's unlikely an age restriction is gonna happen any time soon. What I want to know for sure is how this will affect Greg's Name That GB contest, which was started before this was implemented.

I've been on a couple AFOL (Adult Fan of LEGO) sites that have age restrictions to even join. People can lie about their age there, too, but LEGO employees are still willing to talk with the members there. This restriction probably won't have any impact on over-thirteens talking with people like Greg, unless of course LEGO has some reason to believe BZPower members are less honest than those on age-restricted AFOL forums. It's also a matter of liability. If LEGO makes their policy about not talking with under-thirteens clear, and a person less than thirteen years old lies to get in contact with a LEGO employee, LEGO might still be somewhat liable, but not as much as if they didn't give a hoot who they talked to.

I'm still trying to figure out why LEGO would implement such a silly rule. What are the worried about if Greg talks to a twelve year old?

A lot of people seem to think it's because "it's creepy" for an older person to contact a preteen online whom they don't know in real life, but that's not really the case. It's more a matter of ethical advertising. Part of this is enforced by COPPA in the United States. More information on LEGO's adherence to COPPA and CARU (the Children's Advertising Review Unit) can be found here.

[Toa Zaz]

[...]I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

I disagree. You can always discuss something, and most of the time swearing or picspam just isn't needed....

I'm not talking swears, I'm talking being able to say words like a certain four letter mild insult that starts with a j, rhymes with "Berk," and appears on here like #####, at least. Edited October 20, 2011 by Toa Zaz

[UltraHau]

[...]I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

I disagree. You can always discuss something, and most of the time swearing or picspam just isn't needed....

I'm not talking swears, I'm talking being able to say words like a certain four letter mild insult that starts with a j, rhymes with "Berk," and appears on here like #####, at least.

3 guesses what that word is, and the first 2 don't count. On a more serious note, I'd like a 13+-only forum, though I may be a little biased since I'm older than that. But I want some way to talk to GregF, and if a 13+-only forum is that way, I'm all for it.

[- JL -]

I find it stupid. I'm 12, and I question this: Since lego aim there stuff at kids, and teenagers on the site follow it because they WERE kids who liked the toys.... why make it so its 13+? If its aimed at kids buying toys, don't "block" the people who buy the toys most. I don't mind if they made some kind of 13+ forum, but if they make it just for greg, 1. Lego did something stupid. 2. No point unless its a place for more "mature" people to talk. 3. BZP has no "Permanent" way of this, so we just need to change it.Thats why its dumb.

[Toa Novu]

A 13+bzp forum? I think that's a pretty bad idea. There are fansites out there that are aimed at older audiences already, and if your old enough to be on them your old enough to know how to find them. BZP has always been family friendly, and should stay that way. After all, the whole goal of the site is for any fan to be able to interact and geek out with eachother about Bionicle, no matter their age (or gender). Besides, creating a 13+ forum would be treating the symptom, not the cause. The problem is the rule about Greg's ability to talk to kids, which I say is just rubbish. Greg has been talking to these kids for years, and has done absolutely nothing that in anyway endangers them. Besides, as other people have pointed out, it is extremely easy to lie on the internet, and no amount of restrictions can change that. Even if you ignore that fact, Greg is most definitely not the only adult on this forum. The mods, for instance, are all adults. So are several normal members, myself included. Kids take a risk anytime they pretty much anything on the internet, but particularly anytime they interact with other people on a website. It is the parents or other legal gaurdians' responsibility to monitor what young children do on the internet, not the forum mods or the LEGO company's at all.

Honestly? Thank Lego for this new policy of theirs. It'll give us a chance to stop trying to get every stupid idea, and the stupid ones in particular, canon.-Dovydas

I disagree. One of the things I have absolutely loved about this forum over the years is the fact that we could talk to the creator, ask him questions, and even have input into the story itself. The fact that GregF has put up with us all these years amazes me, and I respect him more than most other authors for that reason, if nothing else. I think he did a fine job of choosing what to incorporate from our feedback and what to ignore.

[BioGio]

I find it stupid. I'm 12, and I question this: Since lego aim there stuff at kids, and teenagers on the site follow it because they WERE kids who liked the toys.... why make it so its 13+? If its aimed at kids buying toys, don't "block" the people who buy the toys most. I don't mind if they made some kind of 13+ forum, but if they make it just for greg, 1. Lego did something stupid. 2. No point unless its a place for more "mature" people to talk. 3. BZP has no "Permanent" way of this, so we just need to change it.Thats why its dumb.

Well, the reason for the possible 13+ age restriction to be able to talk to GregF is largely the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (which is, in fact, a law--and one that companies have been sued over). This is pretty much out of LEGO's hands. Anyway, the real issue is that asking people their age online is painfully unreliable. As a reult, I would prefer a "Greg Contact Team" and simply be done with it. ~ BioGio

[Taka Nuvia]

[...]I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

I disagree. You can always discuss something, and most of the time swearing or picspam just isn't needed....

I'm not talking swears, I'm talking being able to say words like a certain four letter mild insult that starts with a j, rhymes with "Berk," and appears on here like #####, at least.

... in my opinion a serious discussion doesn't require insults at all, no matter how mild. *Back on topic:I don't really see any sense in creating a 13+ forum. It just seems wrong. ._.

[Bambi]

I don't even see the point of making a 13+ thread. People would lie about their age like they can now, and it probably would be too much of a bother for the staff.

[Grantaire]

Honestly? Thank Lego for this new policy of theirs. It'll give us a chance to stop trying to get every stupid idea, and the stupid ones in particular, canon.-Dovydas

Listen to Dovydas, people. As to a 13+ forum, unless every member upon joining had to give the staff a birth certificate, it would never work. All a 12- person has to do is change his age to 13.

[Padishah Mehmet II]

Honestly? Thank Lego for this new policy of theirs. It'll give us a chance to stop trying to get every stupid idea, and the stupid ones in particular, canon.-Dovydas

I disagree. One of the things I have absolutely loved about this forum over the years is the fact that we could talk to the creator, ask him questions, and even have input into the story itself. The fact that GregF has put up with us all these years amazes me, and I respect him more than most other authors for that reason, if nothing else. I think he did a fine job of choosing what to incorporate from our feedback and what to ignore.

I don't think that at all, IMO - it's only my opinion, but I do think BIONICLE was virtually ruined by all the unnecessary details we pressed into it and Greg was just all, "Sure, why not?" to. Examples could include, for example, the whole Varian story writing contest. Why does anyone CARE about Varian? What has she done that would be so interesting, besides, well, be in a big glass jar? BZPower's direct contact to Greg has allowed us to canonize ideas that weren't all that necessary. By extension, we've had a hand in BIONICLE's demise by assisting Greg in making it more convoluted and complex than necessary. And I can't honestly say Greg did a good job picking what to incorporate either, because quite often his reaction was, "Sure, why not." when a Shrug of God would've been preferred.-Dovydas Edited October 21, 2011 by Dovydas the Nerevarine

[BioGio]

As to a 13+ forum, unless every member upon joining had to give the staff a birth certificate, it would never work. All a 12- person has to do is change his age to 13.

There are other methods of ascertaining someone's age, including the following:

getting a signed form from the parent via postal mail or facsimile;accepting and verifying a credit card number in connection with a transactiontaking calls from parents, through a toll-free telephone number staffed by trained personnelemail accompanied by digital signature

Source: http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm That said, you're correct in that none are 100% reliable, as well as difficult to enact, etc. ~ BioGio

[Erebus]

Honestly? Thank Lego for this new policy of theirs. It'll give us a chance to stop trying to get every stupid idea, and the stupid ones in particular, canon.-Dovydas

I disagree. One of the things I have absolutely loved about this forum over the years is the fact that we could talk to the creator, ask him questions, and even have input into the story itself. The fact that GregF has put up with us all these years amazes me, and I respect him more than most other authors for that reason, if nothing else. I think he did a fine job of choosing what to incorporate from our feedback and what to ignore.

I don't think that at all, IMO - it's only my opinion, but I do think BIONICLE was virtually ruined by all the unnecessary details we pressed into it and Greg was just all, "Sure, why not?" to. Examples could include, for example, the whole Varian story writing contest. Why does anyone CARE about Varian? What has she done that would be so interesting, besides, well, be in a big glass jar? BZPower's direct contact to Greg has allowed us to canonize ideas that weren't all that necessary. By extension, we've had a hand in BIONICLE's demise by assisting Greg in making it more convoluted and complex than necessary. And I can't honestly say Greg did a good job picking what to incorporate either, because quite often his reaction was, "Sure, why not." when a Shrug of God would've been preferred.-Dovydas

I care about Varian because she was a undefined character. The contest was created because it did not significantly change the then current storyline. It was just background information that fans would have liked. Varian was always a popular character that fans wanted GregF to write about, but he never did because he couldn't fit her in the current storyline, so it became a contest. You may not care about her, but I certainly do. The BIONICLE Story Squad serves to limit these ideas you consider to be "stupid", when there are those who consider them to be "cool". I am not sure if you're aware of this, but the ideas that the BSS are messaged about are thoroughly discussed by its members. After reaching a consensus, the idea is either thrown out or it moves on to the next stage: polling on BZP. The BZP members vote on whether they would like to see something canonized or not. Even if the majority is a yes for canonization or no for throwing out, GregF still has the final say. Remember the Kinetics proposal? The slight majority of BZP members who voted wanted Kinetics canonized. GregF still said no. Either way, a BZP member cannot go up to GregF and ask for something to be canonized any longer. I would have said you're completely right about 2-3 years ago. Even around that time, GregF has rejected many ideas. However, now that the BSS is running, it just sounds like you're exaggerating a bit. As for contacting GregF, I suppose there can be a Greg Contact Team but I would prefer if everyone got an equal opportunity to speak with Greg. Edited October 21, 2011 by Erebus

[Toa of Nerds]

[...]I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

I disagree. You can always discuss something, and most of the time swearing or picspam just isn't needed....

While I generally think that the userbase on BZPower is relatively mature, BZPower is and always should be open to any fan of Bionicle no matter the age. We should never, ever, create an environment that would offend or alienate younger fans of Bionicle. Now, does this apply to the 13+ forum? I believe it does. Under-12's will just change their age to get in. And the few honest ones there are will constantly wonder what goes on inside the sacred "13+ land". In reality, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether somebody on the internet is over 13 or not, and really the only way GregF can make sure he's not talking to 12-year-olds is to only talk to members that he knows for sure are over 13 (like Black Six). While this does hurt BZPower, I think I can understand the reason why Lego would do this. Lego mainly markets to the 6-12 crowd, and if one of it's employees was some sort of online predator of 12-year-olds then that would seriously hurt the company's image. Now, I know GregF wouldn't do anything like that, but they don't want to take that chance. However, there is really no way of making sure how old the person really is, so it's totally unenforceable. -don't touch my pocket protector

[Zarohum]

LEGO IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET RID OF THIS POLICY WHILE STILL STOPPING GREG AND BINK FROM TALKING TO LITTLE KIDS. Sorry, but nobody listened last time I said it. I think this is kind of important. Edited October 22, 2011 by Zarohum

[Padishah Mehmet II]

Honestly? Thank Lego for this new policy of theirs. It'll give us a chance to stop trying to get every stupid idea, and the stupid ones in particular, canon.-Dovydas

I disagree. One of the things I have absolutely loved about this forum over the years is the fact that we could talk to the creator, ask him questions, and even have input into the story itself. The fact that GregF has put up with us all these years amazes me, and I respect him more than most other authors for that reason, if nothing else. I think he did a fine job of choosing what to incorporate from our feedback and what to ignore.

I don't think that at all, IMO - it's only my opinion, but I do think BIONICLE was virtually ruined by all the unnecessary details we pressed into it and Greg was just all, "Sure, why not?" to. Examples could include, for example, the whole Varian story writing contest. Why does anyone CARE about Varian? What has she done that would be so interesting, besides, well, be in a big glass jar? BZPower's direct contact to Greg has allowed us to canonize ideas that weren't all that necessary. By extension, we've had a hand in BIONICLE's demise by assisting Greg in making it more convoluted and complex than necessary. And I can't honestly say Greg did a good job picking what to incorporate either, because quite often his reaction was, "Sure, why not." when a Shrug of God would've been preferred.-Dovydas

I care about Varian because she was a undefined character. The contest was created because it did not significantly change the then current storyline. It was just background information that fans would have liked. Varian was always a popular character that fans wanted GregF to write about, but he never did because he couldn't fit her in the current storyline, so it became a contest. You may not care about her, but I certainly do. The BIONICLE Story Squad serves to limit these ideas you consider to be "stupid", when there are those who consider them to be "cool". I am not sure if you're aware of this, but the ideas that the BSS are messaged about are thoroughly discussed by its members. After reaching a consensus, the idea is either thrown out or it moves on to the next stage: polling on BZP. The BZP members vote on whether they would like to see something canonized or not. Even if the majority is a yes for canonization or no for throwing out, GregF still has the final say. Remember the Kinetics proposal? The slight majority of BZP members who voted wanted Kinetics canonized. GregF still said no. Either way, a BZP member cannot go up to GregF and ask for something to be canonized any longer. I would have said you're completely right about 2-3 years ago. Even around that time, GregF has rejected many ideas. However, now that the BSS is running, it just sounds like you're exaggerating a bit. As for contacting GregF, I suppose there can be a Greg Contact Team but I would prefer if everyone got an equal opportunity to speak with Greg.

Yeah, I suppose I am; with the BSS and the polling there, I agree, this mess wasn't there. 2-3 years ago, though, I dunno. That was the only time I was actively involved in trying to propose theories or anything, so a lot of my experience is based on that.-Dovydas

[believe victims]

Just like females who hide they're female on BZP.

You assume that's a one-sided thing?

[Touko Fukawa]

It would be im-practical, and there is no plausible way of proving your age on the inter-net. In fact, one remembers that half one's year 5 class had facebook profiles.

[Taka Nuvia]

[...]I'm all for less restrictions, actually. This site really limits discussion too much.

I disagree. You can always discuss something, and most of the time swearing or picspam just isn't needed....

While I generally think that the userbase on BZPower is relatively mature, BZPower is and always should be open to any fan of Bionicle no matter the age. We should never, ever, create an environment that would offend or alienate younger fans of Bionicle.

I think that's what I wanted to say, too... but would you mind elaborating on that just to make sure?

[PooZy]

Easy solution.On other sites you have to agree that you're at least 13 to join. No matter how old you are, everybody generally agrees that they're older. That way there's no legal difficulties - although 13 year olds will be able to talk to greg :S but I don't see that as a problem.

[Toa Zaz]

I find it stupid. I'm 12, and I question this: Since lego aim there stuff at kids, and teenagers on the site follow it because they WERE kids who liked the toys.... why make it so its 13+? If its aimed at kids buying toys, don't "block" the people who buy the toys most. I don't mind if they made some kind of 13+ forum, but if they make it just for greg, 1. Lego did something stupid. 2. No point unless its a place for more "mature" people to talk. 3. BZP has no "Permanent" way of this, so we just need to change it.Thats why its dumb.

Yeah. If they're going to restrict kids, then don't overly-kiddify the stuff their way they do.

[BioGio]

LEGO is not trying to "restrict kids." National law is restricting adults working for LEGO from contacting kids. This really is not LEGO's choice, and some form of a 13+ forum is the only reasonable answer that would allow anyone to have a form of contact with, say, Greg F. A 13+ forum would not necessarily be for the purpose of "mature" discussion--but rather for a certain way of working within COPPA and allowing 13+ members to contact Greg. As I said in my previous post, there are a few recognized ways that LEGO can ascertain the ages of members (although none of them are easy to institute--and thus more difficult to lie/avoid). ~ BioGio

[Vezon shall Return]

I don't really understand the reasoning behind establishing a +13 forum? What could that possibly achieve and how could that realistically be enforced? I would say it would be completely pointless in the long run and concerning Greg, Lego is simply following safety protocal to avoid legal trouble as BioGio suggests.