X-Men: Discussion Topic

[shadow pridak money gang]

boundaries?

 

are those the cute bows they put on puppies in dog shows? i love those!

 

-Tyler

[Havelock Vetinari]

...All hail our Overlord, Tyler the Great.

 

....Please don't hurt me.

[Constructelf]

Humans and their sense of humo-ASARDIN!!!!! *shoves Asardin back into the chaos that is unapproved characters* Really, it's like he has a life of his own...I would give a quote from the evil Uncle Chuckie but it'd probably be morally offensive, NSFW, and maybe even a tad racist. So I'm just gonna let this discussion lay its head.Also, TNG, you've made so many good contributions to the discussion topic. Maybe you could consider joining.

[shadow pridak money gang]

...All hail our Overlord, Tyler the Great.

 

....Please don't hurt me.

 

You make me giggle.

 

-Tyler

[Takanuvainika]

What if an advanced alien race who happen to be the current leaders of the galaxy decide that humans could someday be a threat to galactic peace (namely their rule) and decide to wipe us out now before we get to strong, isn't that what humans are doing to mutants.

 

And besides can't almost any human give birth to a mutant so therefore everyone is a potential threat and so the only way to be sure of peace is by wiping out all life if the universe.

 

And another point, since humans invented something to take away mutant powers doesn't that make them a threat and therefore give mutants the right to destroy humanity just as much as humanity has the right to destroy mutants.

 

If you can't spot the flaws in this logic then I pity you.

[Havelock Vetinari]

What if an advanced alien race who happen to be the current leaders of the galaxy decide that humans could someday be a threat to galactic peace (namely their rule) and decide to wipe us out now before we get to strong, isn't that what humans are doing to mutants.

 

And besides can't almost any human give birth to a mutant so therefore everyone is a potential threat and so the only way to be sure of peace is by wiping out all life if the universe.

 

And another point, since humans invented something to take away mutant powers doesn't that make them a threat and therefore give mutants the right to destroy humanity just as much as humanity has the right to destroy mutants.

 

If you can't spot the flaws in this logic then I pity you.

 

Clearly, we'll have to take down that ruling race. Humanity has to look out for itself or no one else will. If we can look out for other people along the way great, wonderful even. But humanity comes first. No one else is going to come in to save us. How many times has a benevolent race come in and saved us from invaders?

 

....I count zero times. Compared to...what a dozen...? Alien invasions from X-Men canon. The universe is harsh and cruel and we must strive to be better then it. But first we must be stronger then it. Forging a sword is not easy, many things are burned away in the flame....but once the blade of humanity is forged, there is little that can stop it.

 

....We test them at birth.

 

See, the difference is, the average human can't level a city block if he throws a temper tantrum. There are more humans then mutants, the needs of the many....no, the needs of humanity come first.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Basilisk

[Constructelf]

You mean the Celestials?Wait, weren't they the ones who CREATED the X-Gene?I mean, if humanity grew too powerful, they could just come in and stomp on us. Literally. They're like, giant suits of armor. Then there's the Asgardians, the Olympians, the Daevas, the Angels, and a whole load of other races. And the Asgardians did help humanity. Somewhat.Also, the drug would be more of a balancing weapon than a trump card; it would be less powerful.Speaking of which, why aren't there "cure" stations open?

Edited March 5, 2013 by Constructman

[Krayzikk]

Humans and their sense of humo-ASARDIN!!!!! *shoves Asardin back into the chaos that is unapproved characters* Really, it's like he has a life of his own...I would give a quote from the evil Uncle Chuckie but it'd probably be morally offensive, NSFW, and maybe even a tad racist. So I'm just gonna let this discussion lay its head.Also, TNG, you've made so many good contributions to the discussion topic. Maybe you could consider joining.

CM, I'm gonna have to ask you to stop it with the "character talking for you" thing. It was slightly amusing the first time, but now it's just disruptive.

[Havelock Vetinari]

I mean, if humanity grew too powerful, they could just come in and stomp on us. Literally. They're like, giant suits of armor. Then there's the Asgardians, the Olympians, the Daevas, the Angels, and a whole load of other races. And the Asgardians did help humanity. Somewhat.

 

So develop weapons to kill them. Anything that threatens the future of humanity must be dealt with.

[Takanuvainika]

 

What if an advanced alien race who happen to be the current leaders of the galaxy decide that humans could someday be a threat to galactic peace (namely their rule) and decide to wipe us out now before we get to strong, isn't that what humans are doing to mutants.

 

And besides can't almost any human give birth to a mutant so therefore everyone is a potential threat and so the only way to be sure of peace is by wiping out all life if the universe.

 

And another point, since humans invented something to take away mutant powers doesn't that make them a threat and therefore give mutants the right to destroy humanity just as much as humanity has the right to destroy mutants.

 

If you can't spot the flaws in this logic then I pity you.

 

Clearly, we'll have to take down that ruling race. Humanity has to look out for itself or no one else will. If we can look out for other people along the way great, wonderful even. But humanity comes first. No one else is going to come in to save us. How many times has a benevolent race come in and saved us from invaders?

 

....I count zero times. Compared to...what a dozen...? Alien invasions from X-Men canon. The universe is harsh and cruel and we must strive to be better then it. But first we must be stronger then it. Forging a sword is not easy, many things are burned away in the flame....but once the blade of humanity is forged, there is little that can stop it.

 

....We test them at birth.

 

See, the difference is, the average human can't level a city block if he throws a temper tantrum. There are more humans then mutants, the needs of the many....no, the needs of humanity come first.

But do you give every being the right to look out for their own species or do you think that you are special in some way, humanity may be a sword but but other species have been forged by hardship as well and have become guns.

 

If mutants evolved from humans then eventually there would be more mutants then humans.

[Alex Humva]

I felt the need to pop in and say, evolution doesn't work like that. Then I realized, this is the Marvel universe, so nuclear bombs give people superpowers instead of cancer, so yeah.

 

I suppose mass genetic engineering firms could be set up to ensure the mutant gene is removed from the next generation.

[Havelock Vetinari]

But do you give every being the right to look out for their own species or do you think that you are special in some way, humanity may be a sword but but other species have been forged by hardship as well and have become guns.

 

If mutants evolved from humans then eventually there would be more mutants then humans.

 

Other races aren't human. I am. I know how humans think, feel, love. I understand them because I am one. The same cannot be said of other races. Callous as it might seem, humanity comes first because I am human. Anyone who would put an alien race above his own species is a traitor. Nothing more and nothing less. Humanity as a whole deserves our loyalty because we are human. We have to look out for each other and for our species. Every other race will do the same for itself. Why shouldn't we? We'll have to beat them. There isn't any guiding morality in the comsos. No great big judge to make sure everyone plays fair.

 

There is only us and them. Some of them might be friends, but many will not be. We have to look out for our own interests. As every species will. If you would rather stand with another species then your own, that's your problem, not mine.

 

So we must contain them now and cure them now. While we still can. Rather my point.

[shadow pridak money gang]

Basilisk seems like the kind of guy who I would love to fight with if Bill Pullman ever became President and the world was under attack, but a terrible, terrible person to bring your kids to a zoo with.

 

-Tyler

[Havelock Vetinari]

Basilisk seems like the kind of guy who I would love to fight with if Bill Pullman ever became President and the world was under attack, but a terrible, terrible person to bring your kids to a zoo with.

 

-Tyler

 

Deep down in places you don't talk about at zoos, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!

 

[Axilus Prime]

 

I understand that not all mutants can control their powers, and yet still constitute a threat, but remember that no one is unteachable. No one, anywhere. Disabled people have learned martial arts to a degree.

 

Why help us and hurt them when we can help both? All mutants had to train, whether a lot or a little, to use their powers in combat like they do. Train the mutant to full control and strength.

 

And then, if they choose willingly to harm us, that is when we rip his head off.And if we made peace with the X-Men and openly allied with them like common sense dictates, that would be a lot easier, which removes even the risks of that!

 

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is only sometimes applicable. Should one man sacrifice himself to save a people? Absolutely. I'd do it if needed. Should we exterminate a group because they might accidentally blow something up? My response to that contains too many swear words for BZP, followed by a very loud "No."

 

Why do we think against each other when peace is possible? And with peace between each other, we're strong enough to stop what little threat remains. Now does anyone have an even better solution? Hm?

 

No need to get so hostile. The answer is easy if you look at it rationally. Let us take a tally:

 

All Mutant groups, have at one time, attacked Law Enforcement personal. The X-Men allied with bloody terrorists. Mutants are stronger then baseline humanity and are by and large, unwilling to register, unwilling to submit to authority. Should we kill them all out of hand? No. They will be given a chance to surrender. To have their powers removed and to live out the rest of their lives with a job, a secure home and with comfort. If they still resist and attempt to cling to the advantages they need to bully others, then we will have to remove them. Detaining them would be preferable, and then removing their powers. But some, like Quicksilver, are simply too dangerous to be left alive.

 

I don't bloody well care if the man driving a battle tank up my driveway is trained to do so. There is still a battle tank coming at my house.

 

The needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few is always in effect. It is the math by which humanity will advance. We cannot save everyone. So we must settle for saving as many as we can. Doing what we can, where we are, with what we have. Mutants would seek to rule over us, the Brotherhood is but one example of this. And the 'good' mutants will not always be able to stop them. The math is easy, we must act now, while the Mutant population can still be removed, to save the future of our children. To save the future of our species.

 

Their powers can be removed? Well then, that levels the playing field, and we can go with peace between us all, and keep that up our sleeves in case of freaks.

 

If mutants are just evolved from humans, they should be considered humans. A weak man and a strong man are both humans. Mutants are basically the third tier.

 

The allied mutants can even aid in planetary defense against extraterrestrial forces (Which as normal humans we don't stand a snowball's chance in a volcano against), while the criminal mutants can be neutralized or killed, whichever is easier at the moment. Keep the balance, let neither side rise up, and give both sides equal rights to live, work, eat, etc in all the same places. Let humans join the defense forces. Let mutants get jobs. Let them share some fries at McDonalds.

 

I think we could have just reached an agreement. How do you feel about this?

 

(Sorry, Kray, this discussion just strikes me on a deep level.)

Edited March 5, 2013 by Axilus Prime

[Havelock Vetinari]

Their powers can be removed? Well then, that levels the playing field, and we can go with peace between us all, and keep that up our sleeves in case of freaks.

 

If mutants are just evolved from humans, they should be considered humans. A weak man and a strong man are both humans. Mutants are basically the third tier.

 

The allied mutants can even aid in planetary defense against extraterrestrial forces (Which as normal humans we don't stand a snowball's chance in a volcano against), while the criminal mutants can be neutralized or killed, whichever is easier at the moment. Keep the balance, let neither side rise up, and give both sides equal rights to live, work, eat, etc in all the same places. Let humans join the defense forces. Let mutants get jobs. Let them share some fries at McDonalds.

 

I think we could have just reached an agreement. How do you feel about this?

 

(Sorry, Kray, this discussion just strikes me on a deep level.)

 

In theory. Gene therapy and all that. 'Course it probably isn't being funded because the pro-mutant president is a fool....

 

Anyhow, I'm afraid we're not. Letting any mutants walk around with powers is like letting someone walk around with a nuke. We have to take that nuke away. After their powers are gone, then we can nationalize the holdings of all pro-mutant corporations and set up what I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

.....And considering how many alien invasions we've fought off, I'm quite certain we can reverse engineer something. Plus we have giant robots. Enforcers FTW.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Basilisk

[Alex Humva]

If anything has continued to be a constant in both reality and the Marvel universe, humanity always adapts and fights back. I take pity on the poor sods from outer space who try to invade us, because humanity always ends up murdering them all the way back to their homeworld.

[Axilus Prime]

In the Marvel universe, humanity usually has help from superheroes, robots, aliens, mutants, or something.

 

Wait. My response is determined next by the answer to this: Can their powers be returned to them after removal?

[Havelock Vetinari]

I would guess....no.

 

Until someone tries it IC, we don't really know.

[Krayzikk]

(Sorry, Kray, this discussion just strikes me on a deep level.)

how about i strike you on a-i mean wat

Edited March 5, 2013 by The Snark Knight

[Alex Humva]

Robots are creations of humanity, the next step in our progress as a species. The ability to create mechanical life and, from that, further ourselves, is pretty important to whole robot idea. Whether its a machine that makes a thousand cars a day or a giant humanoid monstrosity that eats aliens for lunch, they're both pretty important as far as furthering humanity goes.

 

I hold hope that DARPA could come up with some really crazy **** if aliens tried to take over the Earth.

[Flex Lord Splash]

TNG is basically right about mutants=being humans.

 

Humanity often hates what they don't understand. They fear the unknown. There is a lot of unknown with mutants. Honestly if they hate could be brought down world wide and humanity began to accept mutants at their brothers I think the mutants would be much less likely to lash-back and want to not register. Its people building giant mutant hunters like Sentinel's because they fear mutants that lead to mutants abusing their power.

 

This is why I love X-Men. Its thought provoking and its much more then your average oh I have a fancy suit and powers and I save the world all the time.

EDIT: And yeah a cure exists but it doesn't always last. Mutants have been known to get their powers back.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Sir Flex Nardius

[Havelock Vetinari]

Flex, your view is....very optimistic. But look at what people do with guns every day. We have gang wars and such as.

 

These can be elminated to some extent. Look at the mutants in the Hellfire club. A cop with a shotgun isn't stopping them. The fact that any mutant could decide to just slaughter a bunch of people and it takes a freaking special forces team to take them down is a sign that it's time to take a serious look at Mutants in general. Again, we're not going to let anyone, no matter how nice, drive a battle tank around. We leave that to the military for a reason.

 

I don't fear mutants because I don't understand them. I fear them because I understand them and the implications behind them all too well.

[Krayzikk]

.....You know, I'd hoped to avoid getting into this, but it's not quite that simple Flex. Humanity didn't randomly decide to build a massive mutant hunting robot. They built it because they needed one, because mutants forced them to defend themselves. Is it possible that some of the mutants were provoked? Yeah. But this isn't like a standard teenager, where you can fix things with a few punishments and a discussion. Half the characters in this game become walking time bombs when angry, and others use their powers for less than pleasant purposes.Humanity may have escalated the fight, but they sure didn't start it.

[Havelock Vetinari]

But we are going to finish it.

[Axilus Prime]

Your way is safer, Basilisk, but it just isn't right.

 

I don't think we'll convince each other, so I guess we stick with our opinions for now.

 

But if someone figures out a way to return mutant powers after they were taken, I say remove all the mutant powers...AFTER making a third to a half of the members of whatever group decides whether to return them or not former mutants.

 

That way we don't stay stubborn when an alien threat is imminent and end up with it being too late before we finally agree to return the powers, AND, more importantly, humans and mutants have entirely equal freedom and rights.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Your way would doom us all I'm afraid.

 

I think my view is entirely right. What could be more right then ensuring the people of this fair planet can awake each morning knowing they won't be toasted alive by an angry mutant?

[Krayzikk]

....We don't exactly need mutants to take on aliens. Remember the Avengers? That really good movie? Wanna know how many of those characters had powers granted my mutations?Zero. And they took on an entire invasion force.

[Havelock Vetinari]

That invasion force would have gotten it's arse kicked by an african miltia if the military was using proper tactics in the first place.

[Alex Humva]

Technically the Hulk had powers obtained via Gamma Radiation.

[Krayzikk]

Yes, but that was a result of radiation rather then the X Gene, which was what I was riving at. Hawkeye and Black Widow were human, Cap was an artificially enhanced human, Iron Man was a human in a suit, Thor was an Asgardian, and Hulk was radiation-powered.

[AuRon the champion]

I love how a joking argument between me and basilisk involving the forces of the imperium of man and the four gods of chaos spawned this.

 

Just pointing this out.

 

P.S. Chaos and Mutants rule.

[Krayzikk]

Oh, so you're the one I need to blame.

[Axilus Prime]

The Mutants are not all inherently evil, so we can't wipe them out. In contrast, unless they were all inherently evil they would not attempt to wipe us out.

 

And we don't see humans going around trying to kill the Avengers.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Axilus Prime

[Let's Henshin!]

Anyone who would put an alien race above his own species is a traitor. Nothing more and nothing less.

Well I guess I'd be a traitor, yay...Well atleast I'm in the company of Elliot and Joe.

[Constructelf]

Because the Avengers aren't mutants. Stark is a well known public figure, Rogers is an artificially enhanced war hero from the 40s, Hawkeye is just a random SHIELD agent, Black Widow is enhanced but still human, and Thor is well, awesome. Only the Hulk is questionable. The Fantastic Four weren't mutants either. They had powers from cosmic radiation, and I'd say that they were even more well loved than the Avengers.That doesn't mean that Mutates are in the clear though. For example, Spiderman was feared and hated by the general populace. So, most of the well liked heros are either celbrities or government agents.

[Krayzikk]

CM, for once, thank you.CM got it exactly. Unlike mutants, the other heroes arose through more unique means. There are no other members of their groups to slander their names, and as such, they are praised as unique heroes.

[Havelock Vetinari]

The Mutants are not all inherently evil, so we can't wipe them out. In contrast, unless they were all inherently evil they would not attempt to wipe us out.

 

And we don't see humans going around trying to kill the Avengers.

 

Evil has nothing to do with it. Something doesn't have to be evil to be a threat. A nuke has no feelings, but I'm fairly certain I don't want one near me.

[Axilus Prime]

@Kray

 

So basically all the hate on mutants is due to a certain number of them being stupid. Real smart.

[Havelock Vetinari]

@Kray

 

So basically all the hate on mutants is due to a certain number of them being stupid. Real smart.

 

That and there are quite a lot of them. Enough to threaten, oh say, humanity.