BZPRPG News and Discussion

[Nato G]

While I'm waiting ,there was something else I remember from a while back. Someone said they were going to try to make a list of all of the approved tech items. Did that end up happening?

[They]

Kavala had a host of NPC tarakava he'd been feeding in Kumu-Islets and could control when the Marines and Lohkar's crew arrived during the Lighthouse Expedition.

[Ghosthands]

Right, yeah, just to clarify with my pet question: my pirate characters have a pet parrot bird/reptile rahi thing, which just gives the captain someone to talk to when he's lonely, and... a Takea shark.

 

They've been feeding it over the side of their ship, so it follows them around. The only purpose it really serves is to deter anyone who thinks it would be a good idea to swim onto my ship. Just wondering if that still counts as a pet. Since I've given it a name and everything, I've become kind of attached to him, so I don't really want the first idiot I run into to harpoon my shark just for fun. 

 

Just so we're clear, you can't tame a shark just by feeding it, especially aggressive species. From BS01:

 

Takea are natural underwater predators, attacking and feeding upon weaker Rahi. Takea are natural enemies of Tarakava, although the sharks consider anything in the water an enemy, sometimes even other Takea. Dubbed the 'King of Sharks', just the rumor of a Takea in the water was enough to send the Matoran of Ga-Koro scrambling to shore.

 

 

If an animal lacks social instinct, it won't become 'attached' to entities that feed it. What you've outlined is fine: the shark learns that it will find food if it follows the ship. But that's all. If you fall into the sea, the shark won't distinguish between you and its next meal

 

On that basis, I don't think the rules on pets really apply to your Takea...

[Nato G]

(There must be something wrong with my computer; I spent half of today looking for that BS01 page and never found it)

 

Oh yeah, my guys aren't dumb enough to get in the water with Tucker. It's still a shark, I understand that. I just don't want people who may try to sneak aboard the ship in future to be able to callously knock off my shark just because it's an NPC without it putting up any kind of fight. 

 

But you make a fair point. It isn't a social animal and thus doesn't really count as a pet. 

[Snelly]

Yeah, usually the only pets that really make sense to have are the rahi that are naturally docile, domestic, or commonly tamed by Matoran. Like Gukko and Kahu. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Skitty

[Krayzikk]

And Palm managed to get a few Rama Riders, but they're very specialized, and very uncommonly trained. 

 

Also; I've been hearing whispers of improper use of Kakamas. Tuck and I both ruled quite comprehensively on this matter only a few days ago, so I will not be very forgiving of insistent improper use. 

[Endless Sea (Alaki Nuva)]

That sounds vaguely like me, although I'm not entirely certain what I might have done to prompt any such whispers.  I have been using Joskander's Kakama offensively, though, so I might've screwed up somewhere.

[Nato G]

Yeah, I just noticed that with Joskander in Ko-Wahi. 

 

IC: Is...  is he actually trying to trip me? Joskander thought.  I've got a Kakama, man, I'm prepared for that sort of thing.  Exploiting his mask-granted reflexes, he corrected his course slightly to adjust for the Skakdi's change in position and charged on.

 

OOC: Yeah, I figure the position Joskander's running from lets him actually see where he's going.  That sort of thing's kinda important to him, y'know.    Anyways, he's got a Kakama on, so I figure he'd probably be within melee range now?  Probably?  RPG time is kinda hard to judge sometimes.

 

The problem here is that the Kakama does not increase the user's reflexes. At all. Just their speed. You might want to go fix that before a staff member comes down on you with their smiting hammer of nope. 

[Silvan Haven]

Pretty sure we already went over the "at all" part. The user would die if that was the case.

 

Not going to be pulling off any "Thousand Fist" moves though

[Krayzikk]

While "at all" is an exaggeration, there is no exploitable gain in reflexes. Avoiding obstacles requires slowing down, not reacting faster than you could otherwise do so. Being able to evade objects, to a degree, is a required secondary power; but that is all that it is. It cannot be consciously used to avoid an attack or counter. If you wish to avoid objects effectively, you slow down, not react faster. To quote both myself and Tuck;

 

 

Aaaaaaaand this is where I step in.

 

Tuck makes a pretty good point; traveling long distances in a straight path, a Kakama is darn fast. Actually calculating numbers, as noted in the staff ruling Lorax helpfully provided, isn't exactly encouraged; nevertheless, said numbers don't really have a gameplay impact, so if you're bored... Well, I personally would choose to do almost anything else, but whatever works for you. 

 

That said, "required secondary powers" is a term that I'm leery of seeing. Kakama users, when traveling at high speeds, don't usually kill themselves with accidental impacts. Anything past that is overthinking it. Now, as Tuck also noted, highest speeds are reached in a mostly straight line; when there are lots of obstacles to avoid, you are, by the very nature of safety, going to have to slow way down. 

 

And, additionally, Kakamas are not nearly as fast in smaller situations as one would like. Punching fifty times in a second, for example, is very much exceeding what is considered "fair use". In large part, for one simple reason; it's not an instantaneous boost. When you start running, you don't go from zero to top speed instantly, bypassing all the steps between. You have to speed up. When you throw a punch with a Kakama, you don't have as much time to speed up. Are you going to be quick? Of course. Are you going to get off more punches with than without? Most certainly.

 

But you're not going to be moving so fast you can't be seen, you're not going to be breaking the sound barrier, and you're not going to have super reflexes. 

 

I hope that helps clear things up. 

 

 

I think the part lost in this discussion is HOW MUCH you are using the mask and WHEN.

 

According to Canon, as by the description on BS01, the user of a Kakama CAN break the sound barrier evidenced by Pohatu's run. That does not mean that a Toa can do it all the time or has the skill to do it. Joske doesn't have any elemental powers, hasn't for quite some time, so to compensate he's practiced solely with his mask and thus became the most competent user of it. In cases of extreme competence AND simply doing a relatively straight run from point A to point B, I see no issues with a Kakama user breaking the sound barrier as a means of only transportation.

 

This speed DRASTICALLY slows down however when you are dealing with it on very short distances, such as fighting in a small room. On that level someone could not physically go that fast due to the demands on the concentration because of the battle. It has been described best by a veteran member as your body no longer has a delay in reaction. The moment the mind thinks/sees it, the body moves. This does not make you tougher or give you the ability to dodge attacks that you cannot see, but simply gives you high reaction times.

 

Simply, yes, I would expect sonic booms from Kakama users when traveling long straight distances with few obstacles. Anything more complicated than that and I would call into question some things as well as your playing style 

 

Still, a Kulasi is faster when traveling great distances, as proven by Agni!   Beat Joske to Ta-Koro he did...

 

[Endless Sea (Alaki Nuva)]

Yeah, I got the message the first time.   Just a body slam, no ORAORAORAORAORA-ing.  And Joskander's not avoiding anything, just turning slightly to compensate for his opponent moving slightly, so I figured that was within the range of allowable Kakama uses.  I can still change it, though, if that's too much of a stretch.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Endless Sea (still alive)

[Nato G]

Returning briefly to the topic of my not-pet shark, Tucker, I'd like to remind everyone of a certain Onu-Matoran who managed to tame not just one, but many giant sea Rahi, including Tarakava and Taken sharks, which normally hate each other. I mean, sure, they turned on each other in the end, and Mavrah wound up dying, but that was because of the Vahki. 

 

My pirates only have one shark. Sharks are actually pretty smart. Surely it's smart enough to know not to bite the hand that feeds it? 

[Krayzikk]

Except Mavrah didn't exist here. As far as we know. And, he never really tamed them, because they all turned on everyone at the first sign of trouble. Ghost already ruled, and that's the ruling we're sticking with.

[Shadowhawk]

Sharks are actually pretty smart. Surely it's smart enough to know not to bite the hand that feeds it?

Well, think about it this way. If a fresh meaty hand throws a bunch of fresh meaty non-hand into the water every day at a specified time, does the shark learn to distinguish between chunks of hand and non-hand, or does it just learn that it's dinnertime? It's all just meat in the end.

[25K Now!]

 

Sharks are actually pretty smart. Surely it's smart enough to know not to bite the hand that feeds it?

Well, think about it this way. If a fresh meaty hand throws a bunch of fresh meaty non-hand into the water every day at a specified time, does the shark learn to distinguish between chunks of hand and non-hand, or does it just learn that it's dinnertime? It's all just meat in the end.

 

What if it's a foot.

[Endless Sea (Alaki Nuva)]

What about if it's a foot?  

[NorikSigma]

How do you use feet to feed sharks?

[Timageness]

I suppose one of the pirates could train their pet monkey or bird to feed the shark. Wouldn't have to risk them becoming food if they did that.

[NorikSigma]

How about we just friggin' throw the meat from a distance?

[Shadowhawk]

Well yeah. Anyway. Back to what Nato was originally asking.

There may or may not be any specific rules that protect Tucker, but there's also unwritten codes of courtesy and desire-to-maintain-good-relations. There's very few, if any, players currently active in the BZPRPG who would deliberately have their characters slaughter a named and notable (whether strictly NPC or not) animal without at least asking you about it first. It's just not done, even though it perhaps could be, from a legal/technical standpoint.
 
We're evil, but I like to think we're not impolite.

[soularin]

I feel like discussing whether or not a Takea can be a pet is kind of superfluous. There are sharks in real life, right? But people dont have them as pets. Its logical that if you feed a shark regularly, it will follow your boat. However, if youre on a boat, you need to make your supplies last, not throw it to the sharks for no reason. The only really logical explanation would be if you were feeding it pieces of people youve killed to conserve ship space. Either way its kind of intimidating to have a shark always lurking around your craft. What if you take a wrong step and fall in?

Edited September 28, 2014 by Requiem

[Nato G]

How about we just friggin' throw the meat from a distance?

 

That happens to be exactly what my characters do. 

 

 

What if you take a wrong step and fall in?

 

This is why they feed the shark, so it isn't always hungry. People swim with sharks in real life without getting eaten, right? 

[NorikSigma]

Sharks don't eat humans on purpose, unless it's different here...

(Or the blood)

[Silvan Haven]

In real life a human is just not on the menu of what sharks eat. Since this happens to be a bionicle Takea shark things are somewhat different.

[The Lorax]

This is why they feed the shark, so it isn't always hungry. People swim with sharks in real life without getting eaten, right? 

 

If this shark is so well fed, then why would it eat any strangers who tried to swim to the ship? Either it eats nobody, including your characters, and sucks as a defense mechanism, or it eats everybody, including your characters. Now which should it be?

[Timageness]

Maybe they don't feed it before going into battle, or rarely do when the ship is docked. That way it sort of becomes an active defense, and could be avoided via an unexpected attack at sea. An alternative idea as to why it sticks around could involve having some crew members attach a harness to it (after it was fed of course, or not if the captain wanted some entertainment), thus effectively tethering it to the ship (and making sure the guard-shark doesn't swim away). If the pirates did something similar to themselves when on deck, they wouldn't have to worry about falling overboard, and you could have them only feed it enough to keep it alive (yeah, it's cruel, but these are pirates we're dealing with after all).

[soularin]

Lol, wouldn't want to be the guy sent overboard with a harness.

[Nato G]

Yeah... I've just had them tossing the food in the water every now and again to make it follow them, and feeding it full of food specifically when they need to get into the water, like right now when they're making repairs to their ship.

[They]

You know, this discussion sounds a lot like a beginning class on debate.  Stop changing your position, shifting your ideas, or otherwise attempting to make things work.  You're not a lobbyist, you're a player in the BZPRPG.  The limited palate in this game is to help promote creativity: you have to work within the boundaries.  Yes, having a shark as a war-toy is bloody awesome, I'll give you that.  However, could you please take the details of its feeding schedule to PM?  Thank you!

[Nato G]

You make a good point. Shark is not a pet. End of discussion. 

[Mr. House]

If it was a Bio-Dolphin or a Bio-Seal, maybe. As heck, the US and Russian Navies train such animals. Shark? No.

 

And besides, to have such a pet, a character would need a good reason. As one just doesn't go up to a lion, feed it meat for a week, and be able to ride it like a glorious fantasy mount. The only reason Larikon has an Ash-Bear, for instance, is because he was a Rahi-Tamer and Circus Ringmaster before becoming the crazy cult leader he is now.

 

And the invasion of Ko-Koro shall happen tomorrow.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Mr. House

[Nato G]

Yes, okay, I really do get the message now. No pet shark. Just a regular NPC. 

 

Moving on, do we have an ETA on the Piraka attack on Onu-Koro? 

[NorikSigma]

When the players have time, which I guess is after the Ko-Koro attack?

[The Lorax]

OOC: Are there any PC defenders here at the prison, or all NPCs? 

 

 

All NPCs, at this stage. If necessary, I would be happy to take control of a group of them and put up a good fight.

Edited September 29, 2014 by The Lorax

[Wazdakka]

Do we still have Mata Nui Weekly? Is that a thing?

[NorikSigma]

I think it's inactive now

[Krayzikk]

Do we still have Mata Nui Weekly? Is that a thing?

 

It is largely inactive. That said, if there's anything in particular you need a recap on, I (and no doubt others) would be glad to try and help bring you up to speed. Feel free to PM me.

[Keeper of Kraata]

I think this may be my favorite post I've made in the BZPRPG yet. Edited September 29, 2014 by Keeper of Kraata

[They]

Do we still have Mata Nui Weekly? Is that a thing?

 

As an answer what I have to say for the collective of reporters is that life has gotten the best of us.  We no longer have time to consistently monitor and bring on a weekly basis the quality of news we have in the past.  It may be moving to an every other week or even monthly occurrence.  Everything is still up in the air.

[Nato G]

With so much going on in the game right now, that's entirely understandable.