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Romance in Bionicle

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#1 Offline RahiSpeak

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Posted Nov 19 2016 - 04:29 PM

Of all the potential topics of discussion, this is one of the few that I honestly don't have an opinion on. That's why I want to hear your opinion: should there be romance in Bionicle? To what degree? Is romance even compatible with the Bionicle theme?

 

As always, your insights are very much appreciated!

 

 


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#2 Offline Makuta Luroka

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Posted Nov 19 2016 - 04:42 PM

Of all the potential topics of discussion, this is one of the few that I honestly don't have an opinion on. That's why I want to hear your opinion: should there be romance in Bionicle? To what degree? Is romance even compatible with the Bionicle theme?

 

As always, your insights are very much appreciated!

It doesn't need to be physical (Read: They're magic robots, nothing in that department), but that doesn't mean there simply can't be relationships at all.


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#3 Offline Constructman

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Posted Nov 19 2016 - 04:53 PM

Matoran, Toa, etc: it doesn't make sense. They're robots.

 

Agori, Glatorian, etc: go for it. They're mammals.


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#4 Offline ShadowBionics

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Posted Nov 20 2016 - 12:37 AM

There is friendship and compassion towards others in the theme. Why not romance?

 

It doesn't have to be anything beyond such romantic feelings between two beings. You know, since it's a kids' theme. And as others have pointed out, they are robots, so... yeah... stuff like... THAT.... wouldn't necessarily make sense anyway. Plus, at least in G2 there is such thing as the Okoto villagers being able to have children and what not, so it wouldn't be too far fetched that some romantic feelings might be involved somehow.


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#5 Offline TheSkeletonMan939

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Posted Nov 20 2016 - 12:39 PM

should there be romance in Bionicle?

 

No, it detracts from the butt-kicking action.


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#6 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Nov 20 2016 - 08:37 PM

Matoran, Toa, etc: it doesn't make sense. They're robots.
 
Agori, Glatorian, etc: go for it. They're mammals.


Why does biology matter? Romance is just a form of emotional attachment, and if Matoran and Toa are capable of forming friendships, then at least some of them should be capable of forming romantic relationships.

I don't necessarily think Bionicle NEEDS romance, but I do think there's never been any justification for it NOT to have any that asn't paper-thin. And in fact, G1 Bionicle had plenty of hints of romance, they were just generally downplayed in the wider story, usually with the naive excuse that they couldn't lead anywhere. But in my opinion, Hewkii and Macku's mutual crush, Jaller and Hahli's budding romance, and Matau's flirtations with Nokama greatly enriched the stories they appeared in.

The REAL reason romance is scarce in Bionicle, of course, has nothing to do with biology — it's that it's always been largely aimed at tween boys, and the prevailing stereotype about that demographic is that they think romance is gross. However, even this justification falls apart under scrutiny. Other LEGO themes aimed at basically the same age range as Bionicle, like Ninjago, Legends of Chima, and The LEGO Movie, have had canon and highly visible romantic subplots. So have plenty of other successful cartoons and animated movies aimed at more or less the same demographic. As long as romance does not overshadow the other parts of the story, it gives many fans another way to relate to the series and its characters, without taking anything important away from those fans who like the series for other reasons.

Edited by Aanchir, Nov 20 2016 - 08:38 PM.

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#7 Offline RahiSpeak

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Posted Nov 20 2016 - 09:21 PM

Alright, I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but as a starting point, can everyone at least agree that romance should never be the plot's driving force?


Edited by RahiSpeak, Nov 20 2016 - 09:25 PM.

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#8 Offline Katanga

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Posted Nov 20 2016 - 09:38 PM

To me, romance is canon. It has been alluded to and even outright shown in a few situations at least. I'm not sure why anyone would be averse to romance in the Bionicle world since it adds a little more depth to characters.
On a side note, I found something in the "Ask Greg" thread on Lego.com that might be relevant to this topic.

After some browsing, I just discovered that the inhabitants of Spherus Magna do have weddings.https://community.le...t/true/page/869


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#9 Offline Sir Keksalot

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Posted Nov 21 2016 - 07:44 PM

Removing romance is a terrible idea because we, the audience, feel love as it is understood in this context. When the characters we're supposed to get behind can't feel all the emotions we can, it becomes harder to relate to them. That's not to say it should be forced in wherever possible, just that it should be a thing that exists. When done right, a romance arc can even be really gratifying and have a high payoff; that's why they exist to start with. That's why I'm kinda bummed the Jaller/Hahli thing never went anywhere--it was established in reasonable fashion from an early point, and it could have had some satisfying payoff when the story began to focus on those characters more; not like that weird Hulk/Black Widow thing that sort of happened for no reason in Age of Ultron.


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#10 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Nov 26 2016 - 04:02 PM

That's why I'm kinda bummed the Jaller/Hahli thing never went anywhere--it was established in reasonable fashion from an early point, and it could have had some satisfying payoff when the story began to focus on those characters more

 

By that time (2006) I think romance had already been decanonised. And even if it hadn't, Greg didn't write very much about that kind of thing.


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#11 Offline Sir Keksalot

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Posted Nov 29 2016 - 07:38 PM

 

That's why I'm kinda bummed the Jaller/Hahli thing never went anywhere--it was established in reasonable fashion from an early point, and it could have had some satisfying payoff when the story began to focus on those characters more

 

By that time (2006) I think romance had already been decanonised. And even if it hadn't, Greg didn't write very much about that kind of thing.

 

Greg can go to Karzahni for all I care.

 

...Ok, not really, but still.


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#12 Offline Alyska

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Posted Dec 15 2016 - 10:44 AM

The odd thing about Greg's decanonising romance was that he himself was largely responsible for all the Matau/Nokama stuff (or rather Matau --> Nokama stuff, given that she never reciprocated except platonically). The narration at one point says "Nokama was his friend, and he sometimes wished she could be more than that", and the Hordika arc has Matau heavily imply he wants her to be his mate, (or as close as biomechanical biology would allow them to get) so it's pretty hard to deny Greg's role in it.

 

So 2006 was the straw that broke the camel's back, either because Greg didn't like the idea of writing a couple that actually had mutual feelings as main characters (Hahli and Jaller), or having a Toa with a crush on a Matoran was too awkward for him, even though said Matoran wasn't around (poor Hewkii).

 

I think it actually wouldn't have changed all that much if Hahli and Jaller had remained romantically involved throughout the 2006-2007 arc. They both perform heroic acts to save each other's lives at various points (Jaller jumping over the volcano, Hahli wrestling a shark, etc), so those moments could be given more weight. Then there's the potential for tension in the relationship- Hahli was always kind and supportive towards Matoro, which would give Jaller yet another reason to be jealous of him (justified or not), and Jaller's attempted nova blast would give anyone trust issues. It's also established that although Jaller cares about Hahli, he's frequently serious and not good at supporting other people emotionally, leaving her frustrated and lonely. Meanwhile, Hahli's growing confidence leads to her frequently leaving the team behind and them wondering if she's betrayed them for the Barraki, which would be interesting to see more from Jaller's point of view. A breakup might be a possibility at that point, with a possible reconciliation arc later on. It's pretty clear that they need to talk to each other more, romantic connections or not.

 

Macku is only mentioned by name once in the arc (and by Teridax, at that) but her presence (or rather, absence) is felt. At one point Nuparu, acting as a stand-in for the audience, asks Hewkii whether he misses anything about his old life, and Hewkii's response feels a lot like  "Yes, of course I miss my girlfriend! Shut up nerd, I don't wanna talk about feelings!"

 

As to what form romance might take in the MU (had it not been decanonised), I see it more as a strong emotional attachment or intellectual connection and wanting to spend time together without others rather than a physical attraction (which I agree doesn't make sense for them). But because it wasn't intentionally programmed in, they don't have a well-defined concept of romantic love, "marriage" is a political union, and "dating" is only a thing archaeologists do with old artefacts. Wanting to hang out with one specific person a lot, hold their hand and/or cuddle them was probably considered weirdly clingy by some, perfectly fine by others, and "mostly okay as long as it didn't distract them from work" by the Turaga. 

 

That said, Greg did eventually decide that after being socially exposed to the idea of romance on Sphereus Magna, it might be theoretically possible that some biomechs would possibly maaaayyyybe consider thinking about adopting the custom themselves, but that it would take a long time, and certainly not for everyone. I am 200% up for this, because robots trying to adopt romantic customs (and occasionally failing) is the best.


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#13 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Dec 15 2016 - 02:01 PM

I'm surprised this thread hasn't deteriorated into a cesspool of idiots cough [i mean cool guys] cough and mod-edits like so many others have.

 

Anyway, I don't really have much of an opinion on it. I'm sure Matoran can have emotions, but I'm not sure if that necessarily translates into romance in the traditional sense. It probably depends upon the definition of "romance" to whoever is thinking about it.


Edited by Kopekemaster, Dec 15 2016 - 02:02 PM.

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#14 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 15 2016 - 02:45 PM

The odd thing about Greg's decanonising romance was that he himself was largely responsible for all the Matau/Nokama stuff

 

I doubt he decanonised it himself; it was probably the story team's decision. And Matau has a line about him and Nokama going for a ride together in the movie which Greg didn't write, so it wasn't all him.

 

So 2006 was the straw that broke the camel's back, either because Greg didn't like the idea of writing a couple that actually had mutual feelings as main characters (Hahli and Jaller), or having a Toa with a crush on a Matoran was too awkward for him, even though said Matoran wasn't around (poor Hewkii).

 

Greg and/or the story team might also have realised that without concepts like marriage and childbirth, romantic plotlines couldn't really go anywhere.


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#15 Offline HewkiiXMacku

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Posted Jan 25 2017 - 11:38 AM

The odd thing about Greg's decanonising romance was that he himself was largely responsible for all the Matau/Nokama stuff (or rather Matau --> Nokama stuff, given that she never reciprocated except platonically). The narration at one point says "Nokama was his friend, and he sometimes wished she could be more than that", and the Hordika arc has Matau heavily imply he wants her to be his mate, (or as close as biomechanical biology would allow them to get) so it's pretty hard to deny Greg's role in it.

 

So 2006 was the straw that broke the camel's back, either because Greg didn't like the idea of writing a couple that actually had mutual feelings as main characters (Hahli and Jaller), or having a Toa with a crush on a Matoran was too awkward for him, even though said Matoran wasn't around (poor Hewkii).

 

I think it actually wouldn't have changed all that much if Hahli and Jaller had remained romantically involved throughout the 2006-2007 arc. They both perform heroic acts to save each other's lives at various points (Jaller jumping over the volcano, Hahli wrestling a shark, etc), so those moments could be given more weight. Then there's the potential for tension in the relationship- Hahli was always kind and supportive towards Matoro, which would give Jaller yet another reason to be jealous of him (justified or not), and Jaller's attempted nova blast would give anyone trust issues. It's also established that although Jaller cares about Hahli, he's frequently serious and not good at supporting other people emotionally, leaving her frustrated and lonely. Meanwhile, Hahli's growing confidence leads to her frequently leaving the team behind and them wondering if she's betrayed them for the Barraki, which would be interesting to see more from Jaller's point of view. A breakup might be a possibility at that point, with a possible reconciliation arc later on. It's pretty clear that they need to talk to each other more, romantic connections or not.

 

Macku is only mentioned by name once in the arc (and by Teridax, at that) but her presence (or rather, absence) is felt. At one point Nuparu, acting as a stand-in for the audience, asks Hewkii whether he misses anything about his old life, and Hewkii's response feels a lot like  "Yes, of course I miss my girlfriend! Shut up nerd, I don't wanna talk about feelings!"

 

As to what form romance might take in the MU (had it not been decanonised), I see it more as a strong emotional attachment or intellectual connection and wanting to spend time together without others rather than a physical attraction (which I agree doesn't make sense for them). But because it wasn't intentionally programmed in, they don't have a well-defined concept of romantic love, "marriage" is a political union, and "dating" is only a thing archaeologists do with old artefacts. Wanting to hang out with one specific person a lot, hold their hand and/or cuddle them was probably considered weirdly clingy by some, perfectly fine by others, and "mostly okay as long as it didn't distract them from work" by the Turaga. 

 

That said, Greg did eventually decide that after being socially exposed to the idea of romance on Sphereus Magna, it might be theoretically possible that some biomechs would possibly maaaayyyybe consider thinking about adopting the custom themselves, but that it would take a long time, and certainly not for everyone. I am 200% up for this, because robots trying to adopt romantic customs (and occasionally failing) is the best.

 

As you can tell by my username, I have a pretty strong stance on the subject. I agree wholeheartedly with those whole post.


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#16 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Jan 27 2017 - 10:17 PM

The odd thing about Greg's decanonising romance was that he himself was largely responsible for all the Matau/Nokama stuff (or rather Matau --> Nokama stuff, given that she never reciprocated except platonically). The narration at one point says "Nokama was his friend, and he sometimes wished she could be more than that", and the Hordika arc has Matau heavily imply he wants her to be his mate, (or as close as biomechanical biology would allow them to get) so it's pretty hard to deny Greg's role in it.
 
So 2006 was the straw that broke the camel's back, either because Greg didn't like the idea of writing a couple that actually had mutual feelings as main characters (Hahli and Jaller), or having a Toa with a crush on a Matoran was too awkward for him, even though said Matoran wasn't around (poor Hewkii).


To this day I have some nagging suspicions that Greg might not have ever had any issues with writing romance into Bionicle, but only claimed there was none so he wouldn't be expected to answer shipping-related questions from fans. Even in 2006 it was not hard to read certain characters' relationships (like Balta and Dalu) with romantic undertones, though it was subtle enough that you could just as easily read them as platonic best friends.

Greg and/or the story team might also have realised that without concepts like marriage and childbirth, romantic plotlines couldn't really go anywhere.


That is what Greg often claimed in his answers, and it's possible that he believed it. But even if that's what he or the story team believed, it's obviously not true. There are plenty of powerful love stories out there (especially kids' stories) that don't involve marriage or childbirth.

That excuse also raises the question of why marriage as a concept couldn't exist in Matoran Universe culture, particularly when they went ahead and made a glaring exception for Roodaka and Sidorak's politically-motivated marriage in 2005. Is it really so hard to imagine two people with a deep connection deciding to live together for a reason besides raising children? A person needn't have any reproductive instincts or inclinations to understand the pain of loneliness or the comfort of togetherness.

Anyway, I don't think anybody ever expected Bionicle to become all about romance — at most, it might've had a few romantic subplots here and there. If the movie Wall-E, about two robots with no reproductive capabilities, could have romance as a central theme, surely a story about an elaborate civilization of biomechanical aliens could have at least had a few minor characters in actual romantic relationships.

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#17 Offline Alyska

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Posted Jan 27 2017 - 11:37 PM

Frankly, the implication that romantic relationships have to lead to marriage or procreation in order to be considered valid or interesting is wrong at best, and potentially quite offensive at worst. It ignores so many different kinds of relationship that exist in the real world (straight couples who don't want/can't have children, same-gender couples in places where marriage or adoption isn't viable, asexuals with romantic partners, a physically disabled partner with certain limitations, etc) Not that I'd expect any of that in Bionicle, of course, but I don't for a moment believe that was the actual reason. 

 

But whatever it was, something made Greg uncomfortable about it, and as a fan I try and respect that. No writer should feel forced to write something outside their comfort zone just because of fan demand. 

 

My headcanon is that Matoran have no concept of what romance is, but some do experience strong feelings that we might perceive as such. On Sphereus Magna, they finally have a word for it, but, given the lack of any biological orientation, some might have a hard time figuring out which of their "good friends" are just good friends, and which ones could potentially be something else.

 

Then there's the fact that Matoran and Toa's terms of endearment for each other might not translate well to a romantic context, at least as far as the Agori were concerned.

 

"You're dating? I thought you said she was your sister..."

"Yeah, what's wrong with that?"


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#18 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 29 2017 - 12:02 PM

That excuse also raises the question of why marriage as a concept couldn't exist in Matoran Universe culture, particularly when they went ahead and made a glaring exception for Roodaka and Sidorak's politically-motivated marriage in 2005. Is it really so hard to imagine two people with a deep connection deciding to live together for a reason besides raising children? A person needn't have any reproductive instincts or inclinations to understand the pain of loneliness or the comfort of togetherness.

 

Whilst I suppose two Bionicle beings living together isn't impossible, it wasn't something that was generally depicted. People (namely Matoran) were generally shown as living in large groups or whole communities rather than as couples or family units. Sidorak and Roodaka are perhaps the closest thing to a 'couple' (though being evil villains, love was never something they were going to be depicted as sharing).

 

Frankly, the implication that romantic relationships have to lead to marriage or procreation in order to be considered valid or interesting is wrong at best, and potentially quite offensive at worst. It ignores so many different kinds of relationship that exist in the real world (straight couples who don't want/can't have children, same-gender couples in places where marriage or adoption isn't viable, asexuals with romantic partners, a physically disabled partner with certain limitations, etc) Not that I'd expect any of that in Bionicle, of course, but I don't for a moment believe that was the actual reason. 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to offend anyone here or claim that romance has to lead to marriage or children to be valid. But being able to marry is something that people consider important as an aspect of fully validating their love - why else would there have been such a push in recent years for same-sex couples to be able to marry if marriage didn't play a significant part in intimate relationships? And I'm sure many (if not all) couples who can't have children for whatever reason would probably choose to if they could, or at least would like to have the option to.

 

There are things other than marriage and children that are associated with romance that Bionicle couldn't realistically include, such as sexual activity. My overall point is that if almost all the things that come with romance in real life aren't there in Bionicle, then romance becomes a bit of a dead end that doesn't add much to the story and doesn't have much of a case for inclusion.

 

But whatever it was, something made Greg uncomfortable about it, and as a fan I try and respect that.

 

As I said above, it was quite possibly just a decision by the story team that he was complying with, whether he liked romance or not.


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#19 Offline Noxryn

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Posted Jan 29 2017 - 01:30 PM

Romance is something that can occur between two sentient beings, regardless of other details. Or, specifically, even a deep care for another and love for another: perhaps not romantic, but clearly love for another, regardless. 

 

Before, back during MNOG, there were small pieces of cutesy romance and mutual care (Hewkii and Macku being the most prevalent). It existed prior to becoming de-canonized, so it's clearly possible within the realm of the Bionicle universe. Granted, there's also a lot of text through the books and events throughout the series that does imply relationships can happen and come into existence despite the "Love isn't canon" statement. 

 

It can make stories a bit more fun for some, given I do like cutesy romance and I find it fun and potentially endearing pending on how two characters behave and interact with one another. Removing it felt strange, since even after the removal, instances of it still existed in canon. 

 

 


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#20 Offline Loganto

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Posted Jan 29 2017 - 07:31 PM

I feel it wouldn't be romance, but more a strong companionship. A do everything together duo.

 

It also gives Ga-Matoran a break.


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#21 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 29 2017 - 09:45 PM

I've always thought it seemed like Greg preferred to avoid writing about certain topics rather than attempt to write and misrepresent them. This is mainly how I took in his usually simple characterizations of female characters--sure, he never made that many three-dimensional female characters, but trying and failing to write a complex female character could potentially backfire worse. For whatever reason, he doesn't think of himself as being able to write romance (which is a difficult thing to write), and I think that was the best move he could have made in light of that.
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#22 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 30 2017 - 02:32 AM

Before, back during MNOG, there were small pieces of cutesy romance and mutual care (Hewkii and Macku being the most prevalent).

 

Yes, though the word 'love' wasn't used in them, nor was anyone ever officially together or dating.

 

Granted, there's also a lot of text through the books and events throughout the series that does imply relationships can happen and come into existence despite the "Love isn't canon" statement.

 

It isn't love in general that isn't canon, it's a type of it (romantic love).

 

It also gives Ga-Matoran a break.

 

From what? Being single?


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#23 Offline Noxryn

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Posted Jan 30 2017 - 03:49 AM

Yes, though the word 'love' wasn't used in them, nor was anyone ever officially together or dating.


It's pretty obvious what was intended behind the interactions. It doesn't need to be explicitly official to understand the context between the characters at the time.
 

It isn't love in general that isn't canon, it's a type of it (romantic love).


Pends how you define romance, at that point. In general the idea was to avoid the concept of love in terms of two unrelated individuals coming together as a couple, as consumers would understand it. Yet, it existed. Often times as subtext, though there were definitely moments where it was overt. That particular rule was not kept to well.

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#24 Offline Alyska

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Posted Jan 30 2017 - 05:02 AM

 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to offend anyone here or claim that romance has to lead to marriage or children to be valid. But being able to marry is something that people consider important as an aspect of fully validating their love - why else would there have been such a push in recent years for same-sex couples to be able to marry if marriage didn't play a significant part in intimate relationships? And I'm sure many (if not all) couples who can't have children for whatever reason would probably choose to if they could, or at least would like to have the option to.

 

Apologies if it came across as diminishing the importance of marriage to some people- it certainly wasn't my intention at all. It just feels a bit like as a society we have a very narrow view of what stories of romances should look like and who they should involve, and that can lead to the perception that romances that don't follow that pattern are less valid or less interesting, which I don't think should be the case.

 

It also gives Ga-Matoran a break.

Yes, Vhisola could definitely use a break from hopelessly crushing on Nokama all the time. It's not healthy to like your teacher that much, Vhisola!

 

 

Yes, though the word 'love' wasn't used in them, nor was anyone ever officially together or dating.

 

They did have one instance in MNOG2 where Hahli was told "The one you love shall be destroyed!" (referring to Jaller), but it could still be taken as platonic given that the word "love" is still used in other contexts.


Edited by Alyska, Jan 30 2017 - 05:03 AM.

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#25 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 30 2017 - 11:29 PM

It also gives Ga-Matoran a break.

 
From what? Being single?

I think OP's idea, that I can get behind, is that having no romance in the story removes the expectation that females in the story will be reduced to prizes of romantic pursuits. This would basically be the exact opposite of BIONICLE's problem. A lot of children's media, boy- and girl-oriented, has this problem of not giving certain female characters characterizations beyond "this male character's love interest."

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#26 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 31 2017 - 03:17 PM

It's pretty obvious what was intended behind the interactions. It doesn't need to be explicitly official to understand the context between the characters at the time.

 

Yes it was there, just pointing out that it generally didn't go very far. Huki and Maku almost kissing in the Ga-Koro Bohrok episodes is about the furthest it went.

 

It just feels a bit like as a society we have a very narrow view of what stories of romances should look like and who they should involve, and that can lead to the perception that romances that don't follow that pattern are less valid or less interesting, which I don't think should be the case.

 

No, it shouldn't. It might've been interesting to see where a romance in Bionicle, in which some standard aspects of life/love aren't there, might have gone instead.

 

They did have one instance in MNOG2 where Hahli was told "The one you love shall be destroyed!" (referring to Jaller), but it could still be taken as platonic given that the word "love" is still used in other contexts.

 

He also wasn't exactly 'destroyed', just deceased for a while.

 

I think OP's idea, that I can get behind, is that having no romance in the story removes the expectation that females in the story will be reduced to prizes of romantic pursuits.

 

Okay, though a character (male or female) can have a romantic plotline and still do other important stuff as well.


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#27 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 31 2017 - 05:38 PM

I think OP's idea, that I can get behind, is that having no romance in the story removes the expectation that females in the story will be reduced to prizes of romantic pursuits.

 
Okay, though a character (male or female) can have a romantic plotline and still do other important stuff as well.

They can, and a BIONICLE story with dynamic characters who experience romance would have been awesome, but it's just an easy pit to fall into, especially in male-oriented children's media of the time.

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#28 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 04 2017 - 07:16 AM

Another fun thought:

Matoran and Agori attempting to date each other.

 

Dinner dates are going to be especially awkward given how bizarre each species' method of ingesting food would look to the other.

 

You'd be a bit reluctant to hold your date's hand if you'd just seen her vaporize a whole burger with it...

 

(and she wouldn't want to hold your hand either, you disgusting barbaric mouth-feeder, you!)


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#29 Offline Makuta Luroka

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Posted Feb 04 2017 - 10:54 AM

Another fun thought:

Matoran and Agori attempting to date each other.

 

Dinner dates are going to be especially awkward given how bizarre each species' method of ingesting food would look to the other.

 

You'd be a bit reluctant to hold your date's hand if you'd just seen her vaporize a whole burger with it...

 

(and she wouldn't want to hold your hand either, you disgusting barbaric mouth-feeder, you!)

Matoran (well, toa and turaga) have been known to eat with mouths, haven't they?


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#30 Offline Iver

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Posted Feb 04 2017 - 04:58 PM

Oh boy, another one of these topics. I usually relate to the characters more ​if there isn't any romance. It also adds to the fact that these characters are not​ human, which makes the story more distinguishable from other stories. Romance plots tend to take on a life of their own in hero stories, and this is usually detrimental on the whole. The Toa don't have to deal with those distractions, and become better heroes for it.. 


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#31 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 04 2017 - 07:22 PM

 

Another fun thought:

Matoran and Agori attempting to date each other.

 

Dinner dates are going to be especially awkward given how bizarre each species' method of ingesting food would look to the other.

 

You'd be a bit reluctant to hold your date's hand if you'd just seen her vaporize a whole burger with it...

 

(and she wouldn't want to hold your hand either, you disgusting barbaric mouth-feeder, you!)

Matoran (well, toa and turaga) have been known to eat with mouths, haven't they?

 

They technically can, but they typically don't unless it's medicine or they need to absorb a specific nutrient rather than pure energy. Fanon is that they think it's utterly revolting and bestial, but I don't know if there was ever any canon statement on that.


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#32 Offline Lenny7092

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Posted Feb 04 2017 - 08:39 PM

Well, let me think about it: 

 

Matoran Universe people: no, because they are mostly mechanical. 

Spherus Magna/Bara Magna people: yes, they are most organic.  

Okoto people from G2: yes, same as SM/BA people. 

 

I understand that characters in Bionicle can form friendships, but romance does not apply to all of them. They may never show love in the stories, anyway, too, probably because they look like robots in front of the kid audiences.


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#33 Offline Iron_Man5

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 10:55 AM

 

 

Another fun thought:

Matoran and Agori attempting to date each other.

 

Dinner dates are going to be especially awkward given how bizarre each species' method of ingesting food would look to the other.

 

You'd be a bit reluctant to hold your date's hand if you'd just seen her vaporize a whole burger with it...

 

(and she wouldn't want to hold your hand either, you disgusting barbaric mouth-feeder, you!)

Matoran (well, toa and turaga) have been known to eat with mouths, haven't they?

 

They technically can, but they typically don't unless it's medicine or they need to absorb a specific nutrient rather than pure energy. Fanon is that they think it's utterly revolting and bestial, but I don't know if there was ever any canon statement on that.

 

It has been stated in Biosector in the Skakdi info page that those beings consume and digest their food which the other MU inhabitance see as revolting and bestial. I'm pretty sure that another source states that as well. (not sure if it was BIONICLE Encyclopedia, or BIONICLE World, but I'm certain I've read it somewhere other than Biosector)


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#34 Offline Wiriamu

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 02:35 PM

It works for Zane and P.I.X.A.L., why not Matoran Universe inhabitants?


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#35 Offline Iver

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 04:22 PM

 

It has been stated in Biosector in the Skakdi info page that those beings consume and digest their food which the other MU inhabitance see as revolting and bestial. I'm pretty sure that another source states that as well. (not sure if it was BIONICLE Encyclopedia, or BIONICLE World, but I'm certain I've read it somewhere other than Biosector)

Actually, I've only ever seen it on Biosector. The only time characters in the books are shown eating or drinking, they do it with their mouths.

 

It works for Zane and P.I.X.A.L., why not Matoran Universe inhabitants?

Because Matoran aren't replicas of humans? IMO, the setting is fine. Making the characters emotions alien actually made me connect with them better. And for Agori, children were supposed to be rare, right? Hence why Gresh is one of the only people who didn't​ fight in the Core War. I presume it's because after so much fighting, Bara Magnans just can't trust each other anymore, which is why they wear armor all the time.


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#36 Offline ZOMBI3S

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 07:50 PM

I would like to counter the argument that says, 'they're not humans, they don't have to feel human emotions,' with this: yes that is true, but Bionicle was created by humans, for humans to enjoy. To cut Matoran/Toa/etc. off from human emotion is to sell ourselves short, to make the characters slightly less relatable. It shouldn't be the main focus, simply because of Bionicle's target audience, but I have always found it helps people connect and relate better.

 

The absence of all romance whatsoever, at least for me, took away from some of the characters. Having feelings that can fluctuate from one type of relationship to another allows for more complexity, which can then in turn make the plot more interesting. Without it, basically everyone has the same type of relationship: friendship. Don't get me wrong, friendship is great and all...but for everyone to be forced into that? It just seems kind of bland to me. 

 

Physical attraction, for the sake of reproduction or not, doesn't make sense for Matoran due to their nature, not to mention that it would be inappropriate for the target audience. But that being said, I still believe that it can help with complexity and relatability. Yeah, it doesn't really have a place in the canon, but that's why we have fanfiction, right?

 

When it comes down to it, your headcanon is the only canon that really matters :)


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#37 Offline Azani

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Posted Mar 07 2017 - 04:54 PM

My answer is going to be pretty clear cut on this one. I mean, I don't want to read a story about emotionless robots. And in my mind, love, whether it's romantic or not, is going to inevitably be an aspect of any well-written, emotion-driven story. It doesn't need to be everywhere, and no, it definitely shouldn't be the driving force of the plot, but it should at least be acknowledged as real.


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#38 Offline Iver

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Posted Mar 07 2017 - 10:30 PM

Well, I'm human, and I enjoyed Bionicle more​ without romance than I ever could with it. And the community never had to deal with awkward questions or as many awful fanfics, besides. Being incapable of feeling physical attraction or romantic love does not make the characters emotionless robots. Any lack of complexity in their relationships was not due to lacking the desire to procreate, but due to the nature of the stories, and what we did get was pretty darn good. An alien culture beats poorly written romance any day.


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#39 Offline Toa Imrukii

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Posted Mar 07 2017 - 11:40 PM

The way I see it, love is love. Regardless of being able to procreate or not.
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Posted Mar 08 2017 - 12:14 PM

But there are different kinds of love. A dog may love you, but it will never be able to love you in the same way as a human. In C.S. Lewis' excellent book, The Four Loves​, love is divided into four categories:

  • Storge​: This is fondness through familiarity. It is the bond of family, or others who have likewise found themselves together by chance.
  • Philia​: Literally friendship. This is different from the other loves because it is the least necessary. A species does not need friendship to reproduce, but it is considered a higher-level love because it is freely chosen.
  • Eros​: Romantic love. This is connected to but distinct from Venus​ (sexual attraction).
  • Agape​: Unconditional love. It brings forth caring regardless of circumstances. The essence of Agape is self-sacrifice. It is the highest form of love, and the other three must be subordinate to it in order for spiritual growth to occur.

Agape is the focus of the Bionicle story. It is the duty of the Toa to fulfill it for the rest of the universe, even at the cost of their own lives.


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