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Best Glatorian?


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#1 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 03:42 PM

I am just wondering, who is the best Glatorian?

 

Not opinion, just who was the hardest to beat in the Arena? I think it is either Ackar or a Skrall, since Tuma and Stronius didn't do arena battles.

 

Anyone know? 

 


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#2 Offline Canis Lycaon

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 03:47 PM

This is very similar to a 'Who would win in a fight topic?', but to answer your question, it was Cervatus. Never released in set form, but was considered to be the best.


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#3 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 03:48 PM

He died long ago though. I meant in recent times, just a few years before Mata Nui's arrival.


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#4 Offline Dual Matrix

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 03:56 PM

Well, aside from Certavus there's not one best, they all have different styles/techniques which can be usefull against different enimies.
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#5 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 03:56 PM

Well I know the Skrall Glatorian were able to beat most others right?


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#6 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 04:02 PM

To tell you the truth, Skrall weren't considered Glatorian by species, only title. And yes they are hard to beat, but in Glatorian comic 2, some "real" Glatorian managed to beat off a lot of them, but retreated in the end.
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#7 Offline Sybre the Mental

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 04:06 PM

[color=#006400;]I'd say Mata Nui or Certavus. Mata Nui beat Tuma, a real achievement.[/color]


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#8 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 04:08 PM

Mata Nui isn't a Glatorian. By title, yes, but he technically isn't. Just saying.I would say Tarix or Certavus. Tarix won like ninety-something championships in a row, and Certavus was the best before Tarix.
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#9 Offline XyzTheDay!

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 04:09 PM

Excluding Certavus, the best Glatorian would probably be Ackar, although his age is beginning to catch up to him. Or Tarix.


Edited by XyzTheDay!, Apr 22 2013 - 04:09 PM.

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#10 Offline Underscore

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 04:13 PM

Ackar, due to being the best glatorian on bara magna. But, as others have said, age is starting to get to him. Tarix is the next one, fallowed by Kiina (closest to beating a skrall) and Strakk.


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#11 Offline The Malicious Phantom

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 05:13 PM

Probably Ackar. Did you guys see how many shield he won in TLR?


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#12 Offline alpha123

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 05:18 PM

Definitely Skrall (who are technically Glatorian, as that's the name of the profession, not a species name). They're simply physically superior to the "regular" Glatorian species, plus Skrall basically train all their lives to fight.

 

As far as actually Glatorian, I'd probably say Tarix. According to BS01, he won the Arena Magna championship 93 times in a row! Ackar and Vastus are very good as well, probably very competitive with Tarix.

 

I expect a Bota Magna Vorox would have fared extremely well in the arena system, as a result of their modifications from the Great Beings and the fact that they didn't regress in intelligence like the Bara Magna Vorox. They'd probably be a little better than regular Glatorian and worse than Skrall.


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#13 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 06:37 PM

But didn't Ackar beat Skralls (do we put an S on the end of Skrall plural?) in the Arena?


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#14 Offline The Malicious Phantom

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 07:49 PM

Skrall is singular and plural. But when used in the plural case, put "the" before Skrall.


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#15 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 02:36 AM

I have to agree with the Certavus, then Ackar, then Tarix statements, at least off the top of my head. But a big part of the reason the system stayed in operation was the fact that all of them were roughly equal and even the best would lose a good percentage of the time. "Best" is probably whatever manages to get a few percentage points above 50% success.

And when facing a Skrall, whoever gets anywhere near 50%. :P

 

But didn't Ackar beat Skralls (do we put an S on the end of Skrall plural?) in the Arena?

Off the top of my head I forget so I'll just assume you're remembering right, but beating them once or more than once doesn't make him better than them. Again, it would be a percentage thing. Skrall probably beat Ackar more than Ackar beats Skrall. Make sense? :)

 

In fact, most likely nearly every Glatorian has beaten a Skrall at least once in their lives, or you'd think people would start refusing to even let Skrall compete. Entering a competition with a Skrall is basically saying "I'll probably lose but at least this way we have more chance of success than outright war."

 

And BTW, PT, you don't necessarily have to put "the" before plural Skrall, but I nitpick. :P The rule is that there is no such thing as plural s for Bionicle language words at all (not counting Bionicle terms in English like "Dark Hunters"). Other than that, just use normal English grammar. So however you would use "sheep", etc.


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#16 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 12:37 PM

I'm pretty sure it was outright stated that no Glatorian had beat a Skrall in the arena. I thought competitions between the Skrall and Glatorian were infrequent, and it was a pride and tradition thing that prevented the Agori/Glatorian from warring against them. (They even refused to fight against the Skrall when they destroyed Atero and Tajun, and were flat scared of them. It took Mata Nui and few weapon enhancements to take them out.)


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#17 Offline slifer3000

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Posted Apr 23 2013 - 07:56 PM

Yeah I thought that too I thought the Skrall were just too powerful.


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#18 Offline boston100

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Posted Apr 25 2013 - 08:59 PM

Just sayin i dont get how the glatorian beat the skrall at the end of tlr. if they couldent beat them in the arena how could they beat thousands even with elemental powers.


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#19 Offline Dragonstar7

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Posted Apr 25 2013 - 09:01 PM

Just sayin i dont get how the glatorian beat the skrall at the end of tlr. if they couldent beat them in the arena how could they beat thousands even with elemental powers.

It's called unity. :)

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#20 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted Apr 26 2013 - 08:26 AM

Does Malum count? I mean, the dude was pretty tough and didn't really hold back all that much, which sort of makes up for his lack of tact and thought in his fighting. He also won arena fights on a pretty regular basis, from what I gather.

 

But, if he doesn't count, then Tarix probably has my vote. Why, you ask?

 

As quoted from Mata Nui's Guide to Bara Magna, on Tarix's bio page:

 

"From the start, Tarix was one of the top four Glatorian, although he did not win any championships in the first few thousand years. Following the death of Certavus, the field became more competitive, with Tarix, Ackar and Vastus usually battling right to the end for the title in Arena Magna. Tarix would go on to set a record, winning the tournament 93 times in a row."

 

It states earlier that he is also currently holding the title for champion. I think he sounds like a pretty fierce competitor for Best Glatorian!


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#21 Offline Sheogorath

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Posted Apr 26 2013 - 09:04 AM

out of alive Glatorians? Ackar or Tarix. dead ones included? Certavus. the guy was a beast. had he been alive when the Skrall started entering arenas, I'm fairly certain that he would win a lot of fights. probably not all of his matches, but a good portion of them

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Does Malum count? I mean, the dude was pretty tough and didn't really hold back all that much, which sort of makes up for his lack of tact and thought in his fighting. He also won arena fights on a pretty regular basis, from what I gather.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Malum does indeed count. he's an ex-glatorian, but he was a glatorian at one point. similar to Certavus, he isn't a glatorian now, but in the arena he was probably pretty good. his extra toughness and his lack of holding back might have helped him win his occasional matches with Skrall.[/color]


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#22 Offline The Lorax

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Posted Apr 26 2013 - 05:54 PM

The Skrall by a mile - there was no contest. In the year between when they joined the glatorian system and when it was abandoned, no Skrall ever lost a match.

 

That's only in arena fights, mind you. On open battles and village raids, the fighters weren't constrained by rules and fought in different environments. Then, it was possible for some ordinary glatorian to hold their own some of the time.

 

BS01 quote:

 

He [Tuma] eventually forced the Skrall into the Glatorian system, competing with other tribes for resources and other valuables. The Skrall were stronger than the Glatorian other villages employed, and won every match, acquiring more resources to prepare for their siege of the desert, intended to delay the Baterra's inevitable assault.


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#23 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted Apr 27 2013 - 02:55 AM

The Skrall by a mile - there was no contest. In the year between when they joined the glatorian system and when it was abandoned, no Skrall ever lost a match.

 

That's only in arena fights, mind you. On open battles and village raids, the fighters weren't constrained by rules and fought in different environments. Then, it was possible for some ordinary glatorian to hold their own some of the time.

 

BS01 quote:

 

He [Tuma] eventually forced the Skrall into the Glatorian system, competing with other tribes for resources and other valuables. The Skrall were stronger than the Glatorian other villages employed, and won every match, acquiring more resources to prepare for their siege of the desert, intended to delay the Baterra's inevitable assault.

 

I wasn't aware that the Skrall even counted. They're not the same species as the Glatorian, though they did fight in the arena. Do they count? Are we talking Glatorian as in the species, or Glatorian as in the job?


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#24 Offline The Lorax

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Posted Apr 27 2013 - 03:30 AM

Glatorian is not a species. It's just the name we use to describe the species that became glatorian (job) on Bara Magna, because we don't have a name for said species.

 

In other words, job.


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#25 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted Apr 28 2013 - 07:15 AM

Glatorian is not a species. It's just the name we use to describe the species that became glatorian (job) on Bara Magna, because we don't have a name for said species.

 

In other words, job.

 

Sorry, I used 'Glatorian' there because we really don't have a name for what they are in canon. It's just that they're usually referred to as Glatorian in the story, because that's what the majority of them are now. Skrall aren't really referred to as Glatorian as much as the other species.

 

But if we're talking Skrall included, then Skrall. They're trained to fight from a really early age, and the Agori/Glatorian probably would have fallen to them if not for Mata Nui.

 

That said, maybe the Skrall have been defeated before in the arena, fighting against a Glatorian. It's certainly possible. (Assuming of course that it's not canon that everyone who has ever challenged a Skrall in the arena has lost)


Edited by ZippyWharrgarbl, Apr 28 2013 - 07:29 AM.

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#26 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 28 2013 - 08:20 AM

For the record, it's fine to refer to "Glatorian the species" for clarity's sake, as distinct from Skrall. We actually do have a term for the "including Skrall" thing -- the "warrior class". But there's no such convenient term for "warrior class apart from Skrall" as far as I know. I suppose "non-Skrall warrior class" would suffice, though, if we wanted to be nitpicky. :P But in general, the use of "Glatorian" is fine, with context specifying whether it means job or non-Skrall species or "warrior class" as distinct from Agori.

 

In fact, all such uses are possible as "nicknames" at least by some inhabitants of SM, although maybe they just use whatever the species names are which we don't know.

 

That said, maybe the Skrall have been defeated before in the arena, fighting against a Glatorian. It's certainly possible. (Assuming of course that it's not canon that everyone who has ever challenged a Skrall in the arena has lost)

The Lorax's BS01 quote should be taken as almost certainly canon, and it clearly states that (I was wrong to doubt that) the Skrall won every match.

 

And BTW, now that I'm posting and on the subject again here, my guess, then, as to why the other tribes continue to agree to matches against Skrall would be (aside from fear of open war) that they hope the Skrall's winning streak is somewhat of a trick of statistics; that they only seem to be unbeatable because they rarely enter matches. As in, given enough time fighting in matches, the best Glatorian might learn enough of a Skrall's tactics to beat them a small percentage of the time.


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#27 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 28 2013 - 08:44 AM

I think that the reason that Glatorian allowed Skrall in the Arena was outright cowardice. They were scared of them, at least if their portrayal in TLR is canon: 

Random Agori: There's no way we can stand up to the Bone Hunters!

Random Agori 2: The Skrall are too powerful!

 

Given that, it's possible that letting the Skrall win Arena Matches and take resources seemed to be a better solution than war. If Mata Nui hadn't showed up, they probably just would have rolled over and played dead in the face of the Skrall. In fact, the Skrall invaded and trashed their capital city, and they did nothing about it. I didn't see any Glatorian planning a strike force against the Skrall or anything. 


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#28 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted Apr 29 2013 - 08:25 AM

And BTW, now that I'm posting and on the subject again here, my guess, then, as to why the other tribes continue to agree to matches against Skrall would be (aside from fear of open war) that they hope the Skrall's winning streak is somewhat of a trick of statistics; that they only seem to be unbeatable because they rarely enter matches. As in, given enough time fighting in matches, the best Glatorian might learn enough of a Skrall's tactics to beat them a small percentage of the time.

 

Also, it's mentioned somewhere that surrendering means that the fighting village gets the resources. Another thing; there's a quote in Raid on Vulcanus, page 36:

 

"The two Glatorian struck out to the north. They rode in silence for a few hours until they reached the banks of the Skrall River. Once, enough water had flowed to provide for all the needs of nearby villages. Now it was barely a trickle, thanks to a dam built by the Skrall. Many Glatorian, including Ackar, had challenged the Skrall in the arena, over that dam. The Skrall won every time, and the dam stayed in place."

 

So, they may have been challenging the Skrall and accepting their challenges out of necessity, not cowardice. I mean, sure, they were unbeatable. But what if, by some off chance or stroke of luck, the opposing Skrall warrior was defeated? What if they could secure just one oasis, one dam, one shipment of resources? It'd be a morale booster, for a start, and in the case of the Skrall River, would better the lives of the Agori. They'd have things slightly better until the Skrall came back to challenge again. And in Bara Magna, that's probably all they could hope for.


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#29 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 29 2013 - 08:51 AM

Well, I suspect it's something involving "all of the above." :P Still, those are all some useful quotes. I didn't realize, especially (or really forgot :P) that they were challenging over and over on the same thing. Of course, on the other hand that means the Skrall could just challenge right back and likely win it immediately back?

 

Anyways another point I forgot to bring up earlier (before seeing the "re-challenge" thing) is that despite any hopes of winning challenges, it's also probably true that many Glatorian fear that if they ever did win, Tuma would just declare the Skrall exempt and go to open war. So they might feel like the whole idea that Skrall accept (and then win) challenges is decreed by Tuma due to his military superiority, and they're merely obeying (rather than cowardice per se).

 

Actually that raises the possibility that Glatorian might be throwing some challenges on purpose, or at least not putting their all into it. I dunno.

 

Plus, is it possible that the challenge system at least slows Skrall advancement? They still have to wait for an audience to gather, etc. right? Whereas with war they could move on their own schedule. And repeated challenges might slow it down even further as their best warriors are forced to stay in already-owned areas rather than move to the next (probably not so relevant considering the huge Skrall population though).

 

All that said, I do agree cowardice probably played a large role.


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#30 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted Apr 29 2013 - 07:54 PM

 Well, I suspect it's something involving "all of the above." :P Still, those are all some useful quotes. I didn't realize, especially (or really forgot :P) that they were challenging over and over on the same thing. Of course, on the other hand that means the Skrall could just challenge right back and likely win it immediately back?

 

Well, in the case of the Skrall River, winning it would give them enough time to break the dam down and gather as much water as they could until the Skrall managed to win it back and build the dam again.

 

Actually that raises the possibility that Glatorian might be throwing some challenges on purpose, or at least not putting their all into it. I dunno.

 

That's actually against one of the rules of the Glatorian arena. There's a few rules listed in Mata Nui's Guide to Bara Magna:

 

"1) All Glatorian must fight to the best of their ability. Accepting bribes to lose a match or in any way trying to affect the outcome unfairly is prohibited."

 

There's five other rules, which I can list if anyone wants them for this topic.

 

Also, is cowardice the right word? I mean, cowardice means a lack of bravery. Fearing a force that only holds back in taking everything you hold dear because they chose to humour your system doesn't sound like cowardice. I think it sounds like a decent reaction to the situation.

 

It remids me of Raanu in Raid on Vulcanus. See, he was faced with two options: fight, and possibly face a burned-down village full of bone hunter casualties; or send the Glatorian away and let the bone hunters take whatever scraps were in the village. The only thing that stopped him from sending away the Glatorian was hearing that the bone hunters were actualy planning on wiping Vulcanus off the map and probably killing everyone in it, which is when he decided to fight.


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#31 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 29 2013 - 07:59 PM

It's hard to see how that rule could be truly enforced, though. That's a principle they can choose to live by, but how would anyone prove that they hadn't given it their all?

 

Re: cowardice vs. reasonable reaction -- they're not mutually exclusive, especially consider we're talking about a whole population, made up of unique individuals. Some of them may have been cowardly, even if it was the best choice.


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#32 Offline ZippyWharrgarbl

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Posted Apr 29 2013 - 11:13 PM

It's hard to see how that rule could be truly enforced, though. That's a principle they can choose to live by, but how would anyone prove that they hadn't given it their all?

 

Yeah, I don't know about that. All I know is that it's in the book. But I guess that they were talking about more obvious examples, like walking into the arena, throwing down your weapon and then bowing to your opponent. Or being a very bad actor. Either way, it's probably something that could be exploited- I know it's not canon, but didn't that plotline for the fifth movie feature a pair of Glatorian con men who planned to do exactly that?

 

There's also the mention of bribes. If someone found a bag of bribe money in a Glatorian's hovel, then the Glatorian could very well be exiled, disgraced or fired. I think that's the point for that one. If there's evidence or proof, then the fighter will be in big trouble.

 

But yeah, of course there'd be cowardly people in the villages. I was just trying to say they're not cowardly as a whole. As you said, there's plenty of individuals there.


Edited by ZippyWharrgarbl, Apr 30 2013 - 04:17 AM.

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