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Characters in Bionicle are often so powerful that not having them use their powers is illogical. For instance, in Mask of Light, when Tahu is pinned down by Lerahk. Tahu has so many opportunities to defeat his opponent. Tahu could have used his Hau to create a force field and repel Lerahk. Or Tahu could have used his Kakama to run right through him. Or Tahu could have used his Pakari to simply overpower him. Is there some kind of limitation to Tahu's abilities that I'm missing (like in Legends of Metru Nui, when Vakama has to turn visible to fire his disk launcher)?


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the Hau can't be used to repel something that's already touching its user. running through the Rahkshi wouldn't work either, as Tahu was lying on the ground. and don't forget that Tahu was being poisoned, so he may not have been thinking particularly clearly.

 

it's also possible, however, that these kinds of things are artistic license, seeing as both examples you gave are from the movies.

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... and they were so underused that he made two topics!

 

I agree completely, but I suspect it could be attributed to one of two things.

1. Panic or concentration. The character is in the middle of a fight, and they're maybe too focused on directly combatting their enemy, so they don't think about alternate (more effective) methods of attack. Kind of a lame excuse.

2. The out-of-story reason that it might be less exciting if the characters easily repelled their enemies. Rahkshi attacks Tahu? Have a struggle. Exciting. But if a Rahkshi can't attack Tahu because as soon as it gets close he just dodges it, smashes it, fries it, etc. it can get old pretty quick.

 

 

Also, Arc, remember that the movies are apparently 'more canon' than the books (IIRC).

Edited by Chro

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Definitely artistic license. BIONICLE main characters tend to have several powers at their disposal, and the scriptwriters apparently went for the simple approach of limiting power usage. They had about an hour to introduce six Toa heroes, the Matoran, Makuta, the Turaga, the various Rahkshi, etc; along with the main plot. This left little time to dwell on extra Kanohi powers in addition to the elemental powers.

 

Tahu could probably have set the Rahkshi ablaze right then and there or used his Hau to stop it from getting close in the first place. However, the movie made a point of showing the shield failing to protect against a Rahkshi beam, and at close range the fire might be dangerous to Tahu as well.In the second movie, we got absolutely no elemental usage, with no mention of why they were out of energy. We also saw the Metru trying to use their mask powers properly. According to the rest of canon, Vakama should not have needed to dismiss his invisibility to fire the Kanoka. It was dramatically appropriate, however, and it might just be that as a novice Toa he couldn't focus enough to keep it active when aiming.

 

The comics and serials have more liberty with powers, since they do not need any animation done for the powers and they can allow themselves to use out-of-character explanations for the things that appear. For example, in the movie we would have seen Tahu suddenly pulling super-speed out of his rear, while in a comic there could have been a yellow text bubble mentioning the mask switch (and the comics are longer-running, with more explanation put into the mask collection existing in the first place).

 

The Hau could easily have been used, but the movie also portrayed it more as a standard force-field than a repelling force. It would not make as much sense to use it to push Lehrak away in the movie as it would in other media.

Edited by Katuko

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Yep. But they were suggesting using the Hau to stop Lehrak before he even attacked, instead of pushing him away once he'd already lunged. ;)


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Probably the main problem is over-granting of powers, really. Or, under-taking-them-away-before-scenes-where-they-oddly-don't-use-them. :P

 

Not really deniable that this happened sometimes in some media. Don't think that was a great example of it though, for reasons others have said.

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Let's not forget that some Rahkshi are more powerful than others. Put a Stage 1 in a Lerahk and a stage 5 in a Lerahk, and Tahu would have no trouble at all roasting a Stage one. But a stage 5 would likely overpower Tahu quickly.


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don't forget that when ta-koro was destroyed, the suva and tahu's masks went into the lava too...

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Katuko,

 

In the second movie, we don't get to see the Toa's quest to find the Great Disks. We just see little clips of them finding them. While they were on their quest for the disks, they used up all their elemental energy and they had to wait for it to recharge. At the end of the movie, it finally did recharge just in time for them to trap Teridax in the Toa Seal. Of course, this probably drained their elemental energy again! Haha.


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Probably they were taken by suprise and didnt have time 2 react


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Katuko,

 

In the second movie, we don't get to see the Toa's quest to find the Great Disks. We just see little clips of them finding them. While they were on their quest for the disks, they used up all their elemental energy and they had to wait for it to recharge. At the end of the movie, it finally did recharge just in time for them to trap Teridax in the Toa Seal. Of course, this probably drained their elemental energy again! Haha.

That was my point. We never see them using any elemental power at all in the movie, so unlike other powers that are introduced, anyone watching the movie would not be told that the Toa were even supposed to have such power.

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Katuko,

 

In the second movie, we don't get to see the Toa's quest to find the Great Disks. We just see little clips of them finding them. While they were on their quest for the disks, they used up all their elemental energy and they had to wait for it to recharge. At the end of the movie, it finally did recharge just in time for them to trap Teridax in the Toa Seal. Of course, this probably drained their elemental energy again! Haha.

That was my point. We never see them using any elemental power at all in the movie, so unlike other powers that are introduced, anyone watching the movie would not be told that the Toa were even supposed to have such power.

it's possible that the movie's writers decided to simplify things by giving the Toa one mask power each, seeing as how plenty of viewers might not even know that the Nuva all have the same set of mask powers.

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it's possible that the movie's writers decided to simplify things by giving the Toa one mask power each, seeing as how plenty of viewers might not even know that the Nuva all have the same set of mask powers.

That's pretty much what I said too. ;)

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Katuko,

 

In the second movie, we don't get to see the Toa's quest to find the Great Disks. We just see little clips of them finding them. While they were on their quest for the disks, they used up all their elemental energy and they had to wait for it to recharge. At the end of the movie, it finally did recharge just in time for them to trap Teridax in the Toa Seal. Of course, this probably drained their elemental energy again! Haha.

That was my point. We never see them using any elemental power at all in the movie, so unlike other powers that are introduced, anyone watching the movie would not be told that the Toa were even supposed to have such power.

it's possible that the movie's writers decided to simplify things by giving the Toa one mask power each, seeing as how plenty of viewers might not even know that the Nuva all have the same set of mask powers.

Precisely what I suspect happened.


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Well at least your point has been extra clarified now Katuko! :P

 

I honestly was never a huge fan of the first two Bionicle movies, and the main reason for that was the lack of the main storyline elements of Bionicle! I mean, its a Bionicle movie, and yet we hardly see any use of mask powers in the first one, and the plot doesn't go in depth to explain that each of the Toa had all the powers of all the Kanohi Nuva. And even worse, we don't see the use of elemental powers in the second film!? Or in the third movie for that matter. I understand that they had a lot to pack into the length of the movies, but I always felt that they could have made it more interesting. After all for some fans, those movies were probably their first taste of Bionicle. Not the greatest first impression if you ask me.


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Well at least your point has been extra clarified now Katuko! :P

 

I honestly was never a huge fan of the first two Bionicle movies, and the main reason for that was the lack of the main storyline elements of Bionicle! I mean, its a Bionicle movie, and yet we hardly see any use of mask powers in the first one, and the plot doesn't go in depth to explain that each of the Toa had all the powers of all the Kanohi Nuva. And even worse, we don't see the use of elemental powers in the second film!? Or in the third movie for that matter. I understand that they had a lot to pack into the length of the movies, but I always felt that they could have made it more interesting. After all for some fans, those movies were probably their first taste of Bionicle. Not the greatest first impression if you ask me.

 

On the contrary, they introduced an interesting and creative storyline. For me, Bionicle is not about the battles, it's about the extraordinary storytelling, plot and characters.

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Yeah, but at least mentioning that Vakama has elemental powers at all would be a nice step. They could very easily show him trying and failing to use it properly, wasting it. Then he could have gotten a sputter of fire back in time to seal Makuta along with the other Toa, showing their growth in skill.

Edited by Katuko

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I love Bionicle almost entirely for the storyline as well. I didn't dislike the storyline of either movie at all. What I'm saying is I believe that the elemental powers and Kanohi powers are a key part of the storyline, and they should have been incorporated more into the movies. I thought the best use of elemental power in MoL was when Gali healed Tahu after the Rahkshi poison had overtaken him. This is the kind of elemental power usage I thought should have been used more often in both movies. But then again, I can't really think of a better way to explain the elemental powers and mask powers than they did without using narration, which would not have been good.


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I would hardly call the first 3 movies 'storytelling'. They really failed to capture Bionicle's depth. But then again, to capture the maturity of Bionicle's story, it would probably be close to Pg-13.


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Slifer, if Bionicle were PG-13, not a lot of fans would have watched it, since many were young and some parents don't let them see such movies until they think they can actually watch them. (Not criticizing anyone, just making a statement)

 

If the movies would have grasped the perspective, then it would be PG. (After all, the movies say not rated on the box. Then again this is some movies.)

 

But this is going off topic I think with movies.

 

Now we don't know what power level the kraata had in MoL. For all we know it could have been the strongest one, which is why Tahu was unable to take down Lehrak when he had the chance. But also, when you are locked in combat, your concentration is on the enemy. You don't have time to concentrate on anything else, but the person attacking. Plus Tahu was rather selfish in it.


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Level 6 Rahkshi are near unstoppable, so why were they so easily downed by Kopaka?


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Level 6 Rahkshi are near unstoppable, so why were they so easily downed by Kopaka?

1) Kopaka was on his home turf, Ko-Wahi. (Of course, that's sort of nulled by the fact that Tahu was in his home as well.)

 

2) The Rahkshi weren't really after Kopaka; they were distracted by the two Matoran and the Mask of Light (especially Takua, who lured them out into the middle of an ice lake).

 

3) Kopaka saw a chance and he took it. He's not one for Tahu-style arrogance and theatrics.

 

4) We don't know that they were Level 6 Rahkshi, although this is highly likely.

 

5) Element of surprise, probably as a result of 2.

 

6) Kopaka was admired by a lot of fans of Bionicle; the moviemakers knew this and decided to have a "Kopaka wins" scene to appeal to the fans. :P

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Umm....... Tahu didn't have his other nuva kanohi with him at the time because as you may be able to recall Tahu lost all of his other kanohi when Ta-Koro sunk in the volcano so your last two options aren't possible for Tahu to do.

Edited by Damaracx 7.0

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Level 6 Rahkshi are near unstoppable, so why were they so easily downed by Kopaka?

Their powers are at max level, but their minds were on Takua and the mask. They were surprised at first, and frozen solid before they could fly out of the lake. As we see at the end, however, the Rahkshi that were frozen still show up for the final battle. I'd consider breaking out of that lake on their own to display a good level of toughness.

Umm....... Tahu didn't have his other nuva kanohi with him at the time because as you may be able to recall Tahu lost all of his other kanohi when Ta-Koro sunk in the volcano so your last two options aren't possible for Tahu to do.

Ta-Koro didn't sink until after the skirmish with Lehrak, so Tahu would most likely have had his Kanohi available right then. Considering that this is likely just an effect of the plot writers choosing not to give more than one mask power per character, we might instead ask why Pohatu never uses the Kakama, or why he doesn't try to bring up some stone shapes to block a Rahkshi momentarily. Onua tried to crush them, and even if that didn't work I bet a rock or five could at least be distracting.When the Rahkshi were climbing after Takua, Pohatu stops one of them by throwing his weapons (and that is awesome), but it would have been funny if he knocked one off with a suddenly protruding stone too. :)

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Level 6 Rahkshi are near unstoppable, so why were they so easily downed by Kopaka?

Their powers are at max level, but their minds were on Takua and the mask. They were surprised at first, and frozen solid before they could fly out of the lake. As we see at the end, however, the Rahkshi that were frozen still show up for the final battle. I'd consider breaking out of that lake on their own to display a good level of toughness.

>Umm....... Tahu didn't have his other nuva kanohi with him at the time because as you may be able to recall Tahu lost all of his other kanohi when Ta-Koro sunk in the volcano so your last two options aren't possible for Tahu to do.

Ta-Koro didn't sink until after the skirmish with Lehrak, so Tahu would most likely have had his Kanohi available right then.

 

I don't know. I'm pretty sure he didn't go back to get them in MoL so, I'd think he wouldn't have them with him.

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Wut?

 

 

Also, when I said level 6 was near unstoppable, I wasn't saying the MoL ones were. I think they were around 4 or 5, 4 is equal to a Nuva (allegedly). 6 would likely kill them off easily.

Edited by slifer3000

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I'm surprised I never realized till now they never used any elemental powers in the second film.

Actually when Matau started flying I'm pretty sure he used his powers over air.

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I'm surprised I never realized till now they never used any elemental powers in the second film.

Actually when Matau started flying I'm pretty sure he used his powers over air.

Other than that, and the final battle (sort of), there was minimal elemental power use...


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Wut?

 

 

Also, when I said level 6 was near unstoppable, I wasn't saying the MoL ones were. I think they were around 4 or 5, 4 is equal to a Nuva (allegedly). 6 would likely kill them off easily.

 

Well, you said that Kopaka downed level six Rahkshi in the first question, and the only time Kopaka downed Rahkshi that I know about was in MoL. My bad - silly assumption. What Kopaka-Rahkshi battle are you referring to?

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I don't know.  I'm pretty sure he didn't go back to get them in MoL so, I'd think he wouldn't have them with him.

Yes, but he should have the masks available before Ta-Koro sank, and it sank after the fight with Lehrak.  

 

Also, when I said level 6 was near unstoppable, I wasn't saying the MoL ones were. I think they were around 4 or 5, 4 is equal to a Nuva (allegedly). 6 would likely kill them off easily.

They are only near unstoppable because their powers are stronger and they have a lot more intelligence. But having poison that can dissolve rock doesn't help when you're unexpectedly shot in the back with a freezing blast and, in the few seconds of confusion afterwards, frozen solid in a lake.

 

In the movie, the Rahkshi only went for the Mask of Light. Panrahk used a fragmentation blast to send Kopaka reeling off the glacier, followed by another that hit nearby and knocked him unconscious. With the primary threat gone, the Rahkshi went straight for the defenseless Matoran with the mask, as they were told to do. Victory was only a few feet away, so what they didn't expect was for Kopaka to get back on his feet so quickly. Now, if Teridax's order had explicitly been "kill Kopaka", then Kopaka would be dead. Guurahk could easily have disintegrated him during the short while he was out, if it had cared to stop and do so.

 

And yes, I believe it's been confirmed that the MoL Rahkshi are top-level. They were just not instructed to kill. The comic versions seemed a lot more intent on killing, though, and came close a few times.

 

Well, you said that Kopaka downed level six Rahkshi in the first question, and the only time Kopaka downed Rahkshi that I know about was in MoL. My bad - silly assumption. What Kopaka-Rahkshi battle are you referring to?

In the comic, we at one point follow Kopaka on his way to a meeting with the other Toa. Unfortunately "the Rahkshi have just canceled that meeting" as the narrator says. He proceeds to fight them off all on his own for a little while, using his ice powers to immobilize them. Judging by both the comic and the movie, Kopaka is friggin' awesome. Edited by Katuko

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Can Bionicle beings burn? If so, why couldn't Tahu have just toasted the Rahkshi when they attacked Ta-Koro?

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Can Bionicle beings burn? If so, why couldn't Tahu have just toasted the Rahkshi when they attacked Ta-Koro?

Wouldn't that violate the Toa Code? :P

 

Or risk it anyways?

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Can Bionicle beings burn? If so, why couldn't Tahu have just toasted the Rahkshi when they attacked Ta-Koro?

Wouldn't that violate the Toa Code? :P

 

Or risk it anyways?

 

In what way? If you mean that Toa can't kill anything, what excuse is there for Takanuva apparently vaporising Turahk?

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Can Bionicle beings burn? If so, why couldn't Tahu have just toasted the Rahkshi when they attacked Ta-Koro?

Most beings/creatures in the Bionicle universe are made up mostly of metal/protodermis, so they probably aren't flammable. He could have blasted them with fire and melted them, or something. ;)

Wouldn't that violate the Toa Code?

I wouldn't think so, since Rahkshi aren't sentient.Unless the Toa Code prohibits killing Rahi. Then killing Rahkshi would be a violation.

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@Katuko: Thanks for the clarification. I remember that now, but my comic-book memory isn't as good as my movie memory (only read the comic once, whereas I watched MoL multiple times and analyzed it to shreds [/lame excuse])

 

Anyway, you would think that Tahu could have fried off the Rahkshi armor without killing the Kraata inside, but he might not have known that was an option. Also he couldn't have risked it when they were in the air (Kraata fall into lava, killing them) and once inside the city they were in melee range and could have met such an elemental blast with their own powers.

And it's arguable that Tahu wasn't exactly in the best fighting shape, having just got out of bed (:P), whereas Kopaka was up, awake, and prepared for battle.

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Did Tahu even know what the Rahkshi were? He might hold back his power more because he doesn't know whether they're sentient/sapient (or whatever dividing line they have; it's a good question where that is, but we did see Lewa in MOL stop Jaller from killing the ash bear, and we know Rahi are sentient, and some are even sapient, like Keetongu).

 

I don't recall Turahk being vaporized. All six Kraata were available to put in the Ussanui, so I don't see how that's possible. :P They were just stunned, if memory serves. Also it would seem highly unlikely that light is capable of vaporizing, since it only has heat as a small side product.

 

Re: flammable -- we would be talking about the organic part, which is not metal. Also to say "metal/protodermis" may show a misconception, so just to cover the bases, everything but the air in the MU is some type of protodermis. Their metal components (85%) are protometal, and the rest (15%) is proto-organic, which could burn presumably, just like organics in real life do.

 

[Edit: Although, not sure if Rahkshi armor is protodermis or solid antidermis... Their organics would actually be solid antidermis, methinks. So yeah. Who knows really, but pretty sure they could burn.]

 

Re: "aren't sentient" -- again there might be a misconception here. I'm actually not sure if this applies to Kraata but I presume so; Rahi (animals) are sentient (self-aware, in the same way real-life animals are), but not sapient. Don't confuse the two terms (sentience is often used for sapience in other stories, but not Bionicle). I could see a case, just off the top of my head, going either way above or below sentience, though. Perhaps since they're not actually Rahi made in the normal way they're more like biological computers that react purely by instinct, so aren't even sentient and could be killed -- or, perhaps since they're "sons of Makuta" and can scheme when on a mission, and even speak with Shadow Kraata they are above sentience, maybe partially sapient.

 

So really not sure but food for thunks. :P

Edited by bonesiii

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I don't recall Turahk being vaporized. All six Kraata were available to put in the Ussanui, so I don't see how that's possible. :P They were just stunned, if memory serves. Also it would seem highly unlikely that light is capable of vaporizing, since it only has heat as a small side product.

 

Perhaps 'vaporising' was the wrong word. I don't know what to call it, but right after Takua becomes Takanuva, he does this to Turahk:

 

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