OFFICIAL Bionicle 2015 Topic

[believe victims]

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Wally

[Pomegranate]

I want my Toa to be fighting heroes, not wimps. 

I can promise you that you'll get to see that in the future. Character development is a thing, and you yourself said you already saw it in the advertisements. Patience is a virtue.

[Bfahome]

Again, they didn't have to wipe them all out, but it would have been nice to see Tahu kick some Skull Spider butt.

This is literally what is going to happen in the next Tahu episode.  I don't get how that isn't the single most obvious thing.  He avoided the initial fight so he could get the mask and be stronger.  In other words, he did the smart thing.

 

I want my Toa to be fighting heroes, not wimps.

 

You keep using that word.  It does not mean what you think it means.

[Jobber]

Dang, this argument has been going on for almost two pages.

[Blueblur21]

 

Again, they didn't have to wipe them all out, but it would have been nice to see Tahu kick some Skull Spider butt.

This is literally what is going to happen in the next Tahu episode.  I don't get how that isn't the single most obvious thing.  He avoided the initial fight so he could get the mask and be stronger.  In other words, he did the smart thing.

 

I want my Toa to be fighting heroes, not wimps.

 

You keep using that word.  It does not mean what you think it means.

 

 

Except it does. 

 

I want my Toa to be fighting heroes, not wimps. 

I can promise you that you'll get to see that in the future. Character development is a thing, and you yourself said you already saw it in the advertisements. Patience is a virtue.

 

 

I CAN be patient. If they had an actual release schedule for these things. 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I don't look at it as 'Tahu and the Protector of Fire running away from the Skull Spiders.' I see as them 'running towards the object that could help them survive their encounter with the Skull Spiders.' AKA the Tahu's Golden Mask. After all, there were a lot of spiders after them in the video. And Tahu wasn't sure what a hero was suppose to do in a situation like that. So attempting to retrieve the object that could help him and the Protector survive the spider's attack seemed like a good thing to do IMO.

 

EDIT: Re-worded a sentence.

Edited January 14, 2015 by I Am A Walrus

[believe victims]

 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

 

 

In other words, there's no point to engaging in a battle they would surely lose other than to give you a sense of machismo. I see literally no other point to it.

[Pomegranate]

Dang, this argument has been going on for almost two pages.

 At least this one's on-topic   

 

 

 

I want my Toa to be fighting heroes, not wimps. 

I can promise you that you'll get to see that in the future. Character development is a thing, and you yourself said you already saw it in the advertisements. Patience is a virtue.

 

 

I CAN be patient. If they had an actual release schedule for these things. 

Patience doesn't usually come with conditions They're churning them out pretty quickly, it's not that long a wait. 

[Makaru]

I'm actually impressed this Tahu thought farther into appropriate conflict resolution than "punch the wall of death and get angry it did not work".

[dviddy]

I'm actually impressed this Tahu thought farther into appropriate conflict resolution than "punch the wall of death and get angry it did not work".

Or further than "what would Kopaka do- do the opposite to spite him".

[Blueblur21]

 

 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

 

 

In other words, there's no point to engaging in a battle they would surely lose other than to give you a sense of machismo. I see literally no other point to it.

 

There is EVERY POINT! Tahu is supposed to be brave and mighty! Not confused! 

[Makaru]

Your Bionicle sounds boring.

[Blueblur21]

Your Bionicle sounds boring.

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle. I don't know what the heck you're talking about. 

[dotcom]

 

 

 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

 

 

In other words, there's no point to engaging in a battle they would surely lose other than to give you a sense of machismo. I see literally no other point to it.

 

There is EVERY POINT! Tahu is supposed to be brave and mighty! Not confused! 

 

Dude. The initial confusion he has (as a result of barely starting his adventure) that he will grow out of during his quest is exactly what will allow him to be brave and mighty later. Why in the world do you expect him to become a fully realized hero (and kind of a stupid one, at that) in episode 4 of what could be dozens?

Edited January 14, 2015 by farmstink buttlass

[Bfahome]

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

[Makaru]

The way you're writing what you want to see sounds a lot like "good guy wins all the things" It's consequence-free. Your hero has learned nothing and accomplished nothing. Your villains are now bland and forgettable.

 

"You took fun and made it UNfun. How did you even do that?"

~Arin Hanson

Edited January 14, 2015 by Makaru

[Blueblur21]

 

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

 

 

The way you're writing what you want to see sounds a lot like "good guy wins all the things" It's consequence-free. Your hero has learned nothing and accomplished nothing. Your villains are now bland and forgettable.

Like the Skull Spiders? I think you're forgetting that they ARE bland and forgettable.

 

 

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

 

Oh please. Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot wasnot mine.

[Jobber]

My hero have his name carved into mountains and is known throughout the universe.

Just food for thought.

[Pomegranate]

 

 

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

 

Oh please. Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot wasnot mine.

 

Yes, you have; you've been insisting that the characters are being done wrong and that you're ready to be done with it entirely if the next animation isn't to your liking. It sounds like you're complaining that the reboot isn't living up to your expectations and is too different to what you think you know about what it's "supposed to" be. If the 2015 reboot was "your Bionicle", in that it's the one you know and love, you wouldn't be making those kinds of complaints when it's just started.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Pomegranate

[believe victims]

 

 

 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

 

 

In other words, there's no point to engaging in a battle they would surely lose other than to give you a sense of machismo. I see literally no other point to it.

 

There is EVERY POINT! Tahu is supposed to be brave and mighty! Not confused! 

 

 

Okay we have two possible interpretations here

 

1. you wanted Tahu to charge into a battle he would realistically lose and lose: bad storytelling because a protagonist is dead
2. you wanted Tahu to charge into a battle he would realistically lose and win: bad storytelling because now all we have is Slab Bulkhead tearing his way through enemies with no challenge, no suspense, and absolutely no character development

i'm not sure which you think is best for Bionicle but I'll tell you right now neither is.

[Bfahome]

Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot wasnot mine.

Have you not spent this whole argument bemoaning the fact that Tahu did not do what you would have him do?

Edited January 14, 2015 by Bfahome

[dotcom]

 

 

 

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

 

Oh please. Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot wasnot mine.

 

Well, abstract pseudo-ownership of stuff aside, you've been saying you disagree with the path the reboot is taking of making Tahu know his limitations (taking into account his lack of experience, memories, or anything really resembling assurance that he can totally kill a million facehugging monstrosities) and absconding like a champ. That is what the new Bionicle is, whether you like it or not. It's not a Bionicle that will make its heroes boring, reckless, hyper-capable protagonists from the get-go. God knows we have enough of those. So I mean. Is it really your Bionicle? 

[Blueblur21]

 

 

 

 

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

 

Oh please. Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot wasnot mine.

 

Well, abstract pseudo-ownership of stuff aside, you've been saying you disagree with the path the reboot is taking of making Tahu know his limitations (taking into account his lack of experience, memories, or anything really resembling assurance that he can totally kill a million facehugging monstrosities) and absconding like a champ. That is what the new Bionicle is, whether you like it or not. It's not a Bionicle that will make its heroes boring, reckless, hyper-capable protagonists from the get-go. God knows we have enough of those. So I mean. Is it really your Bionicle? 

 

 

This isn't some trillion hour marathon Doctor Who garbage. This is about heroes fighting bad guys and saving innocents. Tahu is the Master of Fire and that's all he should be.  

 

Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot was not mine.

Have you not spent this whole argument bemoaning the fact that Tahu did not do what you would have him do?

 

Yes. What's your problem?

 

 

 

 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

 

 

In other words, there's no point to engaging in a battle they would surely lose other than to give you a sense of machismo. I see literally no other point to it.

 

There is EVERY POINT! Tahu is supposed to be brave and mighty! Not confused! 

 

 

Okay we have two possible interpretations here

 

1. you wanted Tahu to charge into a battle he would realistically lose and lose: bad storytelling because a protagonist is dead
2. you wanted Tahu to charge into a battle he would realistically lose and win: bad storytelling because now all we have is Slab Bulkhead tearing his way through enemies with no challenge, no suspense, and absolutely no character development

i'm not sure which you think is best for Bionicle but I'll tell you right now neither is.

 

I wanted Tahu to fight and win because he COULD. He's lucky, and if he had anything they say he did he would have all of his moves and his abilities.

[dviddy]

I wanted Tahu to fight and win because he COULD. He's lucky, and if he had anything they say he did he would have all of his moves and his abilities.

 

Except that, unlike you, he knows when to cut and run, because he knows when he's up against insurmountable odds with no training, memories, or awareness of his own talents. He also knows that a magical totem is just beyond the arch and if he gets it, maybe he'll be able to change his circumstances. The whole point here is that you want him to fight and win because you think he COULD, but the story is telling us emphatically that he CAN'T (yet).

[Bfahome]

I wanted Tahu to fight and win because he COULD.

You keep acting like Tahu is this grand warrior straight out of the crater.  He isn't.  He has to learn.  And that's why he's a character, because he has a personality and flaws and, yes, weaknesses.  Part of storytelling is having your characters advance and develop.  You start with SUPREME HEROES and you get maybe a paragraph or two of story.  You start with novices, and you have an entire landscape to explore.

 

Tahu is the Master of Fire and that's all he should be.

Mak's right, that's pretty boring.

[believe victims]

 

 

 

 

 

...so no point to the reckless endangerment other than to satisfy your desires for Fridge Largemeat?

What? i think I lost a few brain cells reading this. 

 

 

In other words, there's no point to engaging in a battle they would surely lose other than to give you a sense of machismo. I see literally no other point to it.

 

There is EVERY POINT! Tahu is supposed to be brave and mighty! Not confused! 

 

 

Okay we have two possible interpretations here

 

1. you wanted Tahu to charge into a battle he would realistically lose and lose: bad storytelling because a protagonist is dead
2. you wanted Tahu to charge into a battle he would realistically lose and win: bad storytelling because now all we have is Slab Bulkhead tearing his way through enemies with no challenge, no suspense, and absolutely no character development

i'm not sure which you think is best for Bionicle but I'll tell you right now neither is.

 

I wanted Tahu to fight and win because he COULD. He's lucky, and if he had anything they say he did he would have all of his moves and his abilities.

 

 

Mere luck is not enough to win against a swarm of skull spiders. There is no "picking off one or two" when all you have is melee against a swarm. It was all or nothing. Unless you're seriously arguing he could take on the billions and billions of skull spiders, he would be dead in minutes.

 

Of course he'd be to his full abilities if he had it his way. That's the same with any protagonist. That also makes for a remarkably boring story. I don't want to read a story where a superpowered hero blasts through every challenge in his way because he's just that got dang special; I want a hero who faces adversity and overcomes it, and grows as a person.

[Blueblur21]

 

I wanted Tahu to fight and win because he COULD.

You keep acting like Tahu is this grand warrior straight out of the crater.  He isn't.  He has to learn.  And that's why he's a character, because he has a personality and flaws and, yes, weaknesses.  Part of storytelling is having your characters advance and develop.  You start with SUPREME HEROES and you get maybe a paragraph or two of story.  You start with novices, and you have an entire landscape to explore.

 

Tahu is the Master of Fire and that's all he should be.

Mak's right, that's pretty boring.

 

Spare me that novice garbage. Superman is a hero with supreme powers and they portray him with flaws all the time.

 

And NO, that is not boring. MASTER OF FIRE sound pretty darn cool. 

[believe victims]

Spare me that novice garbage. Superman is a hero with supreme powers and they portray him with flaws all the time.

 

 

being allergic to your home planet is not a realistic flaw sorry

[Makaru]

Remember when the Toa Nuva lost all their powers and were promptly beaten? And they had to run away, formulate an actual strategy for once and face the impossible? Remember that they barely won and only because Tahu practically cheated?

 

I don't think I'm speaking falsely when I say that a lot of people found that very actually interesting. I personally found that to be the last actual interesting thing the G1 Toa ever did.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Makaru

[dotcom]

 

 

 

 

 

This 2015 stuff IS my Bionicle.

You've spent the last couple of pages rather emphatically declaring otherwise.

 

Oh please. Do me a favor and learn to read because never once in any of my posts have I said that this 2015 reboot wasnot mine.

 

Well, abstract pseudo-ownership of stuff aside, you've been saying you disagree with the path the reboot is taking of making Tahu know his limitations (taking into account his lack of experience, memories, or anything really resembling assurance that he can totally kill a million facehugging monstrosities) and absconding like a champ. That is what the new Bionicle is, whether you like it or not. It's not a Bionicle that will make its heroes boring, reckless, hyper-capable protagonists from the get-go. God knows we have enough of those. So I mean. Is it really your Bionicle? 

 

 

This isn't some trillion hour marathon Doctor Who garbage. This is about heroes fighting bad guys and saving innocents. Tahu is the Master of Fire and that's all he should be.  

That first sentence there that you typed presumably on purpose. I don't know if anyone else followed that, but I sure didn't. I'm going to ignore it. Ok. Ignored.

 

This is actually about heroes finding shiny new stuff to apply directly to their fore, uh, faces, which they will then use to presumably fight the bad guys (???) and free an island of innocents, which has up to this point been under pressure by some evil mook spiders. The problem is that more than heroes (and Masters of Whatever), the Toa right now are kind of confused, inexperienced, oversized sky droppings with big fancy shiny weapons that they most likely don't even know how to use. Because they got amnesia, remember? That is a thing. And as it turns out the evil mook spiders are actually kind of a real threat, because I mean otherwise why would the islanders even be afraid, is the point. They're just mooks, but in high enough numbers they're nigh unbeatable. Especially for heroes who barely crash-landed onto their mystical island of choice. They're in no position to be the heroes at the moment. So yeah. Tahu should be the Master of Fire, eevntually. Is that all he should be? Heck if I know. What's a Master of Fire even. But to even become the Master of Fire, he kind of has to become the Master of Not Dying By Spider first. He succeeded at that, because he ran from the ridiculously endless wave of spiders. It was a smart move. In this situation, Tahu was the innocent. He was saving himself by running. From the spiders.

 

I mean, think about it. They're big ol spiders shaped like skulls. Gross.

Edited January 14, 2015 by farmstink buttlass

[Bfahome]

Spare me that novice garbage. Superman is a hero with supreme powers and they portray him with flaws all the time.

I was never really a fan of Superman.  Because he always seemed to be the "punch problems until they go away" superhero.  And his weakness is glowing rocks.

 

 

 

And NO, that is not boring. MASTER OF FIRE sound pretty darn cool. 

"Can control fire" may be an interesting character trait, but on its own does not make an interesting character.

[Blueblur21]

 

Spare me that novice garbage. Superman is a hero with supreme powers and they portray him with flaws all the time.

I was never really a fan of Superman.  Because he always seemed to be the "punch problems until they go away" superhero.  And his weakness is glowing rocks.

 

 

 

And NO, that is not boring. MASTER OF FIRE sound pretty darn cool. 

"Can control fire" may be an interesting character trait, but on its own does not make an interesting character.

 

He isn't. I love Superman because he has all this power so he has to be careful how to use it. He literally has to become a walking cliche lest he rip our planet out from orbit. But he doesn't. Because he's a kindhearted hero who never lets ANY foe no matter HOW BIG push him around. 

[dotcom]

Well, in defense of the Superman argument, there's never been stories about how Superman first started out, learning about his powers, learning to control them, and rising to becoming a hero. Well, other than all those other stories that are exactly about that, but I mean. Whatever. Not applicable here with Bionicle, because....?

[Bfahome]

He isn't. I love Superman because he has all this power so he has to be careful how to use it. He literally has to become a walking cliche lest he rip our planet out from orbit. But he doesn't. Because he's a kindhearted hero who never lets ANY foe no matter HOW BIG push him around. 

That sounds less interesting than a lot of other superheroes.  "I'm just too darn powerful" doesn't strike me as a relatable flaw.

 

I'm more of a fan of the normals, like Batman or Robin or Slade or Cheshire.  They have to use strategy and cunning to win, not just raw strength.  Also the masks, i really like cool masks.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Bfahome

[Blueblur21]

 

He isn't. I love Superman because he has all this power so he has to be careful how to use it. He literally has to become a walking cliche lest he rip our planet out from orbit. But he doesn't. Because he's a kindhearted hero who never lets ANY foe no matter HOW BIG push him around. 

That sounds less interesting than a lot of other superheroes.  "I'm just too darn powerful" doesn't strike me as a relatable flaw.

 

I'm more of a fan of the normals, like Batman or Robin or Slade or Cheshire.  They have to use strategy and cunning to win, not just raw strength.  Also the masks, i really like cool masks.

 

Batman sucks. He's a spoiled rich kid who creates half the villains he fights. Normals are boring. I like the mighty superheroes like Power Girl and Shazam.

[Regitnui]

How about we look at Tahu as not "Gen1 awesome transferred to new setting" but "Gen2 new hero"? This isn't that Tahu that wiped out an entire horde of Rahkshi, but a new Tahu, who upon looking at a swarm of spiders he has no idea how to beat, went and ran for a batter weapon with which to stop them.

 

BlueBlur, say you were in the Amazon and saw a swarm of army ants heading your way. Or in California and saw a warm of killer bees. What would you, personally, do?

[Blueblur21]

How about we look at Tahu as not "Gen1 awesome transferred to new setting" but "Gen2 new hero"? This isn't that Tahu that wiped out an entire horde of Rahkshi, but a new Tahu, who upon looking at a swarm of spiders he has no idea how to beat, went and ran for a batter weapon with which to stop them.

 

BlueBlur, say you were in the Amazon and saw a swarm of army ants heading your way. Or in California and saw a warm of killer bees. What would you, personally, do?

.....I'd probably run....

[dotcom]

In other news either BZP is really glitching out on me or Makaru quoted me twice in posts that do not exist. This argument is so hot it is burning through the site's ability to care enough to hold it together. I don't blame it.

 

Scooting discussion a bit towards a criticism that might be more valid. The decision to make the Toa journey for "weeks" to get their masks strikes me as pretty odd. That's kind of a really long time for them to not meet each other, and more importantly kind of a long time to just skip. Seems to me like those weeks-long journeys would have been a good place to characterize the Protectors and build up relationships between them and the Toa. Perhaps learn a bit more about each village and whatnot? Like I don't want a full debriefing on what gross bugs they ate each day or what the weather was like and how many exciting rocks they upturned and how many weird trees they had to cut down or what ever.  But at least like maybe one episode for each pair of them just talking it out? Maybe. The pacing so far is honestly kinda weird.

 

But it seems like there were a few posts since I started writing this so it's back to that discussion I guess. Whoo.

[Makaru]

No I think we're ready for a new topic now.

[Regitnui]

 

 

How about we look at Tahu as not "Gen1 awesome transferred to new setting" but "Gen2 new hero"? This isn't that Tahu that wiped out an entire horde of Rahkshi, but a new Tahu, who upon looking at a swarm of spiders he has no idea how to beat, went and ran for a batter weapon with which to stop them.

 

BlueBlur, say you were in the Amazon and saw a swarm of army ants heading your way. Or in California and saw a warm of killer bees. What would you, personally, do?

.....I'd probably run....

Now Tahu's doing the same thing you would, and you're calling him a coward. The skull spiders are worse than killer bees. Even if he did have a flamethrower (his powers) on hand, there's no way he could take out all of them before one got him. It's a numbers thing; Tahu could kill thousands upon thousands, but they have more, and only need to hit him once.