OFFICIAL Bionicle 2015 Topic

[Banana Gunz]

 

We don't need more content, we need better content. The animations shouldn't need to be supplemented by comics and games and books; they should be able to tell their own story alone. The issue is they just haven't been given the time to do so.

 

 

Hate to break it to ya, but as much your little siblings may like them, it doesn't mean they are of particular quality. Sure, the animations are animated well, but they give such basic bare bones story so far that it's very demeaning to the theme. It would be fine if there was more of other sources of media, but there is none. Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel. These animations are short and the story they tell is hardly unique or interesting so far.

 

I don't mean to sound like I absolutely can't stand Gen 2 so far because of this, or that it has no redeeming factors, but it is being disappointing and the story is not as great as it could be. I would be fine with only getting animations to show the story, but the animations themselves are not the greatest and the story they tell isn't either. Bionicle being immersive wasn't its flaw, no one complains about how fun and detailed MNOG was, they complain about the story losing control and getting convoluted in later years. An over complicated story is bad, but an over-simplified and thin one is even worse.

[believe victims]

 

We don't need more content, we need better content. The animations shouldn't need to be supplemented by comics and games and books; they should be able to tell their own story alone. The issue is they just haven't been given the time to do so.

 

Hate to break it to ya, but as much your little siblings may like them, it doesn't mean they are of particular quality.

 

I didn't say anything about that meaning they were high-quality. I even said I wished the animations told the story better. What I said was my little siblings, the target audience, enjoys the story and how it's told, and it pushes them to want to purchase the sets. They aren't Oscar material, but they do their job: they're giving kids a story that makes them want to buy toys.

 

Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel.

 

Oh, you mean like exactly how I feel when I look back at the G1 story.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Dina Saruyama

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

We don't need more content, we need better content. The animations shouldn't need to be supplemented by comics and games and books; they should be able to tell their own story alone. The issue is they just haven't been given the time to do so.

 

Hate to break it to ya, but as much your little siblings may like them, it doesn't mean they are of particular quality.

 

I didn't say anything about that meaning they were high-quality. I even said I wished the animations told the story better. What I said was my little siblings, the target audience, enjoys the story and how it's told, and it pushes them to want to purchase the sets. They aren't Oscar material, but they do their job: they're giving kids a story that makes them want to buy toys.

 

The story should make them feel more than just want sets. A good story should inspire and make them really feel for a world and its characters.

 

 

Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel.

 

 

Oh, you mean like exactly how I feel when I look back at the G1 story.

 

 

You talk like Gen 1 and Gen 2 are exactly the same... which is very untrue. Gen 1 (or mostly the beginning of it since Gen 2 hasn't had its full run yet) has been much better than Gen 2 so far in my opinion, and a lot of people look back on it for its wonderful and thoughtful world and characters. I don't see the point you're trying to make here, or if you're even trying to make one at all. Please explain...

[believe victims]

 

Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel.

 

 

Oh, you mean like exactly how I feel when I look back at the G1 story.

 

 

You talk like Gen 1 and Gen 2 are exactly the same... which is very untrue. Gen 1 (or mostly the beginning of it since Gen 2 hasn't had its full run yet) has been much better than Gen 2 so far in my opinion, and a lot of people look back on it for its wonderful and thoughtful world and characters. I don't see the point you're trying to make here, or if you're even trying to make one at all. Please explain...

 

This is all a matter of opinions, so "true" and "untrue" seem like arbitrary distinctions. I look back on Gen 1 and see a story that tried to grow up with its target audience and failed horribly, and which went on too long, choking itself with useless information and one-note characters that barred new fans access to it. It felt incohesive, disjointed, and faux-deep. In my opinion, Bionicle G1 is a story I look back on and wonder how I ever thought it was so great, exactly what you're hypothesizing the current target audience will feel about G2. I'm warning you of the dangers of overinflating the value of Bionicle G1's story; you'll lose sight of its actual worth to many of its original fans.

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel.

 

 

Oh, you mean like exactly how I feel when I look back at the G1 story.

 

 

You talk like Gen 1 and Gen 2 are exactly the same... which is very untrue. Gen 1 (or mostly the beginning of it since Gen 2 hasn't had its full run yet) has been much better than Gen 2 so far in my opinion, and a lot of people look back on it for its wonderful and thoughtful world and characters. I don't see the point you're trying to make here, or if you're even trying to make one at all. Please explain...

 

This is all a matter of opinions, so "true" and "untrue" seem like arbitrary distinctions. I look back on Gen 1 and see a story that tried to grow up with its target audience and failed horribly, and which went on too long, choking itself with useless information and one-note characters that barred new fans access to it. It felt incohesive, disjointed, and faux-deep. In my opinion, Bionicle G1 is a story I look back on and wonder how I ever thought it was so great, exactly what you're hypothesizing the current target audience will feel about G2. I'm warning you of the dangers of overinflating the value of Bionicle G1's story; you'll lose sight of its actual worth to many of its original fans.

 

 

Ah, I see. I'm mostly talking about the beginning of Gen 1, mostly 2001, since Gen 2 has only started. Although, I agree much of later Bionicle doesn't live up, but the beginning at least had an excellently strong charm, complex but not complicated story and interesting characters. Gen 2, at least its beginning so far doesn't have that, isn't very interesting and the theme probably won't hold up if the theme doesn't improve.

 

It seems there was a bit of a misunderstanding in exactly which parts of Bionicle we were referring to.

[believe victims]

 

 

 

Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel.

 

 

Oh, you mean like exactly how I feel when I look back at the G1 story.

 

 

You talk like Gen 1 and Gen 2 are exactly the same... which is very untrue. Gen 1 (or mostly the beginning of it since Gen 2 hasn't had its full run yet) has been much better than Gen 2 so far in my opinion, and a lot of people look back on it for its wonderful and thoughtful world and characters. I don't see the point you're trying to make here, or if you're even trying to make one at all. Please explain...

 

This is all a matter of opinions, so "true" and "untrue" seem like arbitrary distinctions. I look back on Gen 1 and see a story that tried to grow up with its target audience and failed horribly, and which went on too long, choking itself with useless information and one-note characters that barred new fans access to it. It felt incohesive, disjointed, and faux-deep. In my opinion, Bionicle G1 is a story I look back on and wonder how I ever thought it was so great, exactly what you're hypothesizing the current target audience will feel about G2. I'm warning you of the dangers of overinflating the value of Bionicle G1's story; you'll lose sight of its actual worth to many of its original fans.

 

 

Ah, I see. I'm mostly talking about the beginning of Gen 1, mostly 2001, since Gen 2 has only started. Although, I agree much of later Bionicle doesn't live up, but the beginning at least had an excellently strong charm, complex but not complicated story and interesting characters. Gen 2, at least its beginning so far doesn't have that, isn't very interesting and the theme probably won't hold up if the theme doesn't improve.

 

It seems there was a bit of a misunderstanding in exactly which parts of Bionicle we were referring to.

 

 

Honestly, the only thing gen 1 had that gen 2 has yet to approach to me is MNOG, and even then, the animations have some of its charm with their beautiful landscapes and occasional humor. Otherwise, I'm not seeing a complexity disparity between the two besides a dial-down on characters (to keep them from building up quickly) and a simplification of Toa powers (to make it all more intuitive).

 

As far as story materials go, 2001 had comics and an online game that didn't even tell the complete story. The Toa's showdown against Makuta was completely unknown, when that was, in theory, the climax of the year.

 

G2, meanwhile, in its first half, has told a consistently linear story, outlining major events. Its flaw is that it doesn't have the time to linger on things, so the pacing is all over the place.

 

Neither, to me, seems inherently deeper or more worthy than the other. Both are just children's stories about friendship told through mythical robot heroes on an island. They just both have taken different tacks in storytelling, and neither got off on the right foot, honestly.The only thing 2001 had that 2015 doesn't that matters is MNOG, and it honestly does not represent the entire 2001 story; 2001 had its shortcomings as well. It's just easier to ignore in hindsight than in the present.

 

I'm not saying G2 is perfect. I definitely want the animations to be handled better. I just think people are unfairly weighted towards 2001 by virtue of it being what they had as kids.

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

 

 

Sure, kids may eat it up at first, but eventually they will look back on it and instead of feeling like it holds up so many years later, they will feel disappointed seeing how it is not as great as it used to feel.

 

 

Oh, you mean like exactly how I feel when I look back at the G1 story.

 

 

You talk like Gen 1 and Gen 2 are exactly the same... which is very untrue. Gen 1 (or mostly the beginning of it since Gen 2 hasn't had its full run yet) has been much better than Gen 2 so far in my opinion, and a lot of people look back on it for its wonderful and thoughtful world and characters. I don't see the point you're trying to make here, or if you're even trying to make one at all. Please explain...

 

This is all a matter of opinions, so "true" and "untrue" seem like arbitrary distinctions. I look back on Gen 1 and see a story that tried to grow up with its target audience and failed horribly, and which went on too long, choking itself with useless information and one-note characters that barred new fans access to it. It felt incohesive, disjointed, and faux-deep. In my opinion, Bionicle G1 is a story I look back on and wonder how I ever thought it was so great, exactly what you're hypothesizing the current target audience will feel about G2. I'm warning you of the dangers of overinflating the value of Bionicle G1's story; you'll lose sight of its actual worth to many of its original fans.

 

 

Ah, I see. I'm mostly talking about the beginning of Gen 1, mostly 2001, since Gen 2 has only started. Although, I agree much of later Bionicle doesn't live up, but the beginning at least had an excellently strong charm, complex but not complicated story and interesting characters. Gen 2, at least its beginning so far doesn't have that, isn't very interesting and the theme probably won't hold up if the theme doesn't improve.

 

It seems there was a bit of a misunderstanding in exactly which parts of Bionicle we were referring to.

 

 

Honestly, the only thing gen 1 had that gen 2 has yet to approach to me is MNOG, and even then, the animations have some of its charm with their beautiful landscapes and occasional humor. Otherwise, I'm not seeing a complexity disparity between the two besides a dial-down on characters (to keep them from building up quickly) and a simplification of Toa powers (to make it all more intuitive).

 

As far as story materials go, 2001 had comics and an online game that didn't even tell the complete story. The Toa's showdown against Makuta was completely unknown, when that was, in theory, the climax of the year.

 

G2, meanwhile, in its first half, has told a consistently linear story, outlining major events. Its flaw is that it doesn't have the time to linger on things, so the pacing is all over the place.

 

Neither, to me, seems inherently deeper or more worthy than the other. Both are just children's stories about friendship told through mythical robot heroes on an island. They just both have taken different tacks in storytelling, and neither got off on the right foot, honestly.The only thing 2001 had that 2015 doesn't that matters is MNOG, and it honestly does not represent the entire 2001 story; 2001 had its shortcomings as well. It's just easier to ignore in hindsight than in the present.

 

I'm not saying G2 is perfect. I definitely want the animations to be handled better. I just think people are unfairly weighted towards 2001 by virtue of it being what they had as kids.

 

 

I'm personally trying to look at these things without nostalgia getting in the way, but I guess all I can say is agree to disagree. I'm glad to hear you like G2 more than me so far, but I just feel that G2 is lacking more than just something like MNOG. An online game like MNOG isn't the only way to show a great world and its characters and introduce a story, but G2 just doesn't have anything to give what 2001 had in my opinion. I played MNOG and loved it but didn't get into Bionicle til about 2007, so I'm not as nostalgic for 2001 as others are, but I can personally say I do feel 2001 is better so far from my perspective. Pacing is G2's biggest issue so far, but I don't think it's its only one.

[Bfahome]

 

No you can't.  None of us can.  Anyone who followed the 2001 story as it happened was fifteen years younger than they are now, so their experience is going to be vastly different.  Coupled with the fact that we now know all the story that followed it, it is extremely difficult to look at it "objectively".  Like I said above, you bring up the numerous animations and expansive game.  At this stage, they were neither numerous nor expansive.  They're only so substantial in hindsight.

A fair point. However, at this point in 2001 we had promise of much more content, be it Bioniclemusic.com or the ever-growing Mata Nui Online Game, as well as the PC game (that was sadly cancelled). There is no promise of additional content for this year minus "Summer will bring new sets". 

 

Also, yes there was no doubt good would succeed in the end (this is a kids line!), but I think what Toa Chuck wanted to say was that there are no stakes and no real threats to grip the audience at this moment and create a memorable conflict where the Toa actually struggle. That can be attributed to the length of the animations for sure. Hopefully summer's villains will change that. 

 

-NotS

There are animations yet to be released.  There are books that have been announced.  Heck, even just going by the sets, we're getting Ekimu, so there has to be something about that coming up.

 

You bring up the fact that 2001 promised a PC game, but I think that hurts the case more than helps it; promises are meaningless if they aren't carried through.  You can promise a lot, but that only matters if you can deliver.

 

I see the argument that there's no big conflict yet a lot.  But the fact that there's any conflict at all, especially something that's represented in the sets, is more than most of Gen 1 can claim.  This wave's sets at the very least have enemies to fight against, whereas many past years simply would've left it at "good guys now, bad guys next wave".  The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

The conflict in the current story may not seem all that dire, but that's because it is, in essence, a placeholder; in this case, though, it's actually tied into the Toa's overall quest rather than being an arbitrary obstacle.

[toa kopaka4372]

It's interesting how consistently G1 BIONICLE's later years are disparaged around here, when I personally consider them to have some of the theme's best storytelling, period. Hm.

 

My main beef with G2 so far is how non-existent the world feels. Okoto barely qualifies as a setting. Ok, we have the Temple of Time and the Ancient City, and then...what, exactly? There is no feel to the island, no atmosphere. There is not a single named inhabitant of the place, outside of Ekimu and Makuta. None of the villagers have names, and the Protectors who are supposed to apparently play the role of Turaga have no personalities. Nothing. We literally do not have a single character trait for a single one of them. Couple that with the webisodes that almost exclusively focus on Tahu, who has no actual personality there either, and you end up with a story that isn't there.

 

There are promising hints of things to come, such as the constant references to 'Time' and the Ancient City...but the problem is that nothing is being established. The Ancient City is clearly meant to house secrets and revelations...but I feel no real interest in discovering them. G2 is trying to build up a sense of mystery without establishing anything first. Why should I care about the truth behind this world or the adventures to come when I don't feel anything for...well, anything? Why should I care about these Toa? This island? The story team has put no effort into building investment in what we're seeing here.

 

There is simplification...and there is just poor story-telling. And try as some here might make it appear, 2015 is not equal to 2001, in any department (story-wise, of course. The sets rock.)

 

Edit: 

The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

Difference: the Morbuzakh conflict was told over the course of two books and several comics. The books especially used this "placeholder" conflict to establish firmly both the personalities of the Toa as well as the setting, while also including abundant foreshadowing for what would happen down the line. In addition to that, Nidhiki and Krekka featured prominently in the first half of the year, providing a threat to the Toa Metru that directly related to the larger conflict (Makuta's plan). They were mysterious, they were dangerous, and they built up suspense. As a bonus, we had Ahkmou the traitor as well.

 

It's not fair to compare 2015, the first year of G2, to 2004, and just as well, because there is no comparison to be made.

Edited March 9, 2015 by toa kopaka4372

[Toa of Gallifrey]

It's interesting how consistently G1 BIONICLE's later years are disparaged around here, when I personally consider them to have some of the theme's best storytelling, period. Hm.

 

My main beef with G2 so far is how non-existent the world feels. Okoto barely qualifies as a setting. Ok, we have the Temple of Time and the Ancient City, and then...what, exactly? There is no feel to the island, no atmosphere. There is not a single named inhabitant of the place, outside of Ekimu and Makuta. None of the villagers have names, and the Protectors who are supposed to apparently play the role of Turaga have no personalities. Nothing. We literally do not have a single character trait for a single one of them. Couple that with the webisodes that almost exclusively focus on Tahu, who has no actual personality there either, and you end up with a story that isn't there.

 

There are promising hints of things to come, such as the constant references to 'Time' and the Ancient City...but the problem is that nothing is being established. The Ancient City is clearly meant to house secrets and revelations...but I feel no real interest in discovering them. G2 is trying to build up a sense of mystery without establishing anything first. Why should I care about the truth behind this world or the adventures to come when I don't feel anything for...well, anything? Why should I care about these Toa? This island? The story team has put no effort into building investment in what we're seeing here.

 

There is simplification...and there is just poor story-telling. And try as some here might make it appear, 2015 is not equal to 2001, in any department (story-wise, of course. The sets rock.)

 

Edit: 

The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

Difference: the Morbuzakh conflict was told over the course of two books and several comics. The books especially used this "placeholder" conflict to establish firmly both the personalities of the Toa as well as the setting, while also including abundant foreshadowing for what would happen down the line. In addition to that, Nidhiki and Krekka featured prominently in the first half of the year, providing a threat to the Toa Metru that directly related to the larger conflict (Makuta's plan). They were mysterious, they were dangerous, and they built up suspense. As a bonus, we had Ahkmou the traitor as well.

 

It's not fair to compare 2015, the first year of G2, to 2004, and just as well, because there is no comparison to be made.

This is exactly how I feel. I feel like years like 2007 and 2008 were the peak of Bionicle in terms of storytelling. I want G2 to move me as much as Matoro's death moved me, to thrill me as much as the final battle in the Codrex thrilled me and to shock me as much as Teridax taking over the MU shocked me. I doubt any of these will happen because G2 is taking notes primarily from 2001-2003, but I've got hope for something shocking down the line.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Toa of Gallifrey

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

No you can't.  None of us can.  Anyone who followed the 2001 story as it happened was fifteen years younger than they are now, so their experience is going to be vastly different.  Coupled with the fact that we now know all the story that followed it, it is extremely difficult to look at it "objectively".  Like I said above, you bring up the numerous animations and expansive game.  At this stage, they were neither numerous nor expansive.  They're only so substantial in hindsight.

A fair point. However, at this point in 2001 we had promise of much more content, be it Bioniclemusic.com or the ever-growing Mata Nui Online Game, as well as the PC game (that was sadly cancelled). There is no promise of additional content for this year minus "Summer will bring new sets". 

 

Also, yes there was no doubt good would succeed in the end (this is a kids line!), but I think what Toa Chuck wanted to say was that there are no stakes and no real threats to grip the audience at this moment and create a memorable conflict where the Toa actually struggle. That can be attributed to the length of the animations for sure. Hopefully summer's villains will change that. 

 

-NotS

There are animations yet to be released.  There are books that have been announced.  Heck, even just going by the sets, we're getting Ekimu, so there has to be something about that coming up.

 

You bring up the fact that 2001 promised a PC game, but I think that hurts the case more than helps it; promises are meaningless if they aren't carried through.  You can promise a lot, but that only matters if you can deliver.

 

I see the argument that there's no big conflict yet a lot.  But the fact that there's any conflict at all, especially something that's represented in the sets, is more than most of Gen 1 can claim.  This wave's sets at the very least have enemies to fight against, whereas many past years simply would've left it at "good guys now, bad guys next wave".  The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

The conflict in the current story may not seem all that dire, but that's because it is, in essence, a placeholder; in this case, though, it's actually tied into the Toa's overall quest rather than being an arbitrary obstacle.

 

 

I'd like to bring up Makuta from 2001. You didn't even see him for most of the year, yet he was terrifying from how the villagers spoke of him. He was strange and mystical, and his threats were like tentacles spreading out across the island through rahi, and even matoran (Ahkmou). His poweful influence over the island was terrifying and built him up as this crazy and huge villain, and he did all that without even being shown until the end! Though he didn't get a set appearance, his rahi henchmen did, which even better could double as regular rahi so you could choose your play. When he finally is portrayed, it's a simple matoran which is brilliant and simple, and even more terrifying. The toa were fighting and defending the island a lot at the beginning, and though they seem to have to fight less in 2001 than in G2, the rahi they did have to fight were really powerful and difficult, and the conflict was real. In G2, the toa fight a bunch, but the skull spiders are not hard villains unless in swarms.

 

 

It's interesting how consistently G1 BIONICLE's later years are disparaged around here, when I personally consider them to have some of the theme's best storytelling, period. Hm.

 

 

I actually would like to say I loved Bionicle's later years despite all their flaws. There were great moments and elements of the story that stood out, especially Matoro's death. I don't think the later years had the best storytelling over all, but it was epic in multiple parts and were pretty cool and inspired a lot of the time. The later years had something special that took the story in thrilling and interesting directions, and though not every decision was good, there were some really great moments and ideas overall.

 

 

 

My main beef with G2 so far is how non-existent the world feels. Okoto barely qualifies as a setting. Ok, we have the Temple of Time and the Ancient City, and then...what, exactly? There is no feel to the island, no atmosphere. There is not a single named inhabitant of the place, outside of Ekimu and Makuta. None of the villagers have names, and the Protectors who are supposed to apparently play the role of Turaga have no personalities. Nothing. We literally do not have a single character trait for a single one of them. Couple that with the webisodes that almost exclusively focus on Tahu, who has no actual personality there either, and you end up with a story that isn't there.

 

There are promising hints of things to come, such as the constant references to 'Time' and the Ancient City...but the problem is that nothing is being established. The Ancient City is clearly meant to house secrets and revelations...but I feel no real interest in discovering them. G2 is trying to build up a sense of mystery without establishing anything first. Why should I care about the truth behind this world or the adventures to come when I don't feel anything for...well, anything? Why should I care about these Toa? This island? The story team has put no effort into building investment in what we're seeing here.

 

There is simplification...and there is just poor story-telling. And try as some here might make it appear, 2015 is not equal to 2001, in any department (story-wise, of course. The sets rock.)

 

 

Ye, all of dis.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Banana Gunz

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

There are animations yet to be released.  There are books that have been announced.  Heck, even just going by the sets, we're getting Ekimu, so there has to be something about that coming up.

 

You bring up the fact that 2001 promised a PC game, but I think that hurts the case more than helps it; promises are meaningless if they aren't carried through.  You can promise a lot, but that only matters if you can deliver.

 

I see the argument that there's no big conflict yet a lot.  But the fact that there's any conflict at all, especially something that's represented in the sets, is more than most of Gen 1 can claim.  This wave's sets at the very least have enemies to fight against, whereas many past years simply would've left it at "good guys now, bad guys next wave".  The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

The conflict in the current story may not seem all that dire, but that's because it is, in essence, a placeholder; in this case, though, it's actually tied into the Toa's overall quest rather than being an arbitrary obstacle.

 

I can give you the books part - I guess since books have been a staple of Bionicle since 2003 it was only to be expected, so to me it does not fuel any excitement. But yeah, I guess we have that. Some of the excitement for the animations is tainted by the fact that all of them (at least for the first wave) were uploaded already. 

 

Regarding the cancelled PC game - at least they talked about it. The Mask of Creation game came out of nowhere, with no advertising and I still don't even see much promotion for it from LEGO. I think the payoff for that games release would have been better if it had prior advertising. Not keeping promises isn't good either though, I will agree to that. Bionicle Gen I was especially bad in that regard. 

 

Now about conflict - the fact that this line of sets comes packaged with conflict ready to go is what makes its execution so disappointing! In Gen I, to ensure the story didn't crawl to a snails pace, the writers tried to make conflict with what they could. The Morbuzakh is just a small part of winter 2004 - a faceless, non-set enemy designed to be an adversary to the Toa Metru toys - but the real conflict of that portion of the year was the Toa Metru's quest to find the Great Kanoka discs and prove their worth as Toa. The Morbuzakh essentially was a plot device that emphasized the importance of their quest and why the Toa had to team up with the Matoran to defeat it. There was solid storytelling to be found there. 2005 actually was unique in that all the sets were released at once (though, at different times in different parts of the world) so the story ending up being consistent throughout the year without a need to set up a next wave of sets. The "main" story happened in the Summer (more accurately fall) because they had to tie it into a movie franchise. Despite this, the books told a lot more story in those "blank" portions of the year then the movies ever hoped to. 

 

The only year that I felt didn't make successful conflict out of one wave was 2007 with the Barraki, but even then there was some intrigue to what lies beneath the surface and what happened to the Matoran of Voya Nui. In comparison, 2015 has all the set-up for conflict but never utilizes any of it. Various types of Skull Spiders with different powers? Their ability to snare onto the villagers faces and enslave them? That's awesome, so why aren't they putting this to full use? They don't have a backstory and they haven't set it up well enough that I even care about it. We have potential for exciting conflict right off the bat and its not happening. By comparison, the 2001 villains were simple Rahi tainted with evil, but the infected masks were utilized to their full potential. The Rahi's importance and defining characteristics were already stated beforehand.

 

Also, I agree with toa kopaka4372 - Okoto is, well, boring. The island of Mata Nui was treated like a character itself - there was so much emphasis on the landmarks and history which made it feel like an organic, living component of the story. I don't think Bionicle would have been so enticing without the focus on the island itself. That's probably why it remained a defining symbol of the franchise throughout its original run, despite changing locations in further years. I don't feel like the same amount of thought went into creating Okoto. We don't know the culture and society, the inhabitants, we don't know anything about the flora and fauna, and I personally can't really care about their mission to save the island because I don't feel its importance. 

 

-NotS

[fishers64]

Personal Taste Set #1: 

 

1. Bionicle Gen 2's story's purpose is to sell toys. 

 

2. Bionicle Gen1 wasn't that good; Bionicle Gen 2 does a better job selling toys than Gen 1. 

 

3. The sets are most important; the story isn't really important. 

 

Personal Taste Set #2: 

 

1. Bionicle Gen 2's story's purpose is to tell a story. 

 

2. Bionicle Gen 1 told a better story than Bionicle Gen 2 has. 

 

3. The story is important; it needs to be engaging, otherwise the sets won't sell. 

 

All six of the statements above are true. 

 

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

why are there still no Bionicle sales in any stores

There actually already are some sets on sale at Target, such as Gali and Onua.

 

~B~

 

Oh hey, speak of Makuta.

[believe victims]

Personal Taste Set #1: 

 

1. Bionicle Gen 2's story's purpose is to sell toys. 

 

2. Bionicle Gen1 wasn't that good; Bionicle Gen 2 does a better job selling toys than Gen 1. 

 

3. The sets are most important; the story isn't really important. 

 

Personal Taste Set #2: 

 

1. Bionicle Gen 2's story's purpose is to tell a story. 

 

2. Bionicle Gen 1 told a better story than Bionicle Gen 2 has. 

 

3. The story is important; it needs to be engaging, otherwise the sets won't sell. 

 

All six of the statements above are true. 

 

 

Except some of them (such as which one told a better story) are subjective opinions; whether they are true or false is up to the individual.

[fishers64]

Except some of them (such as which one told a better story) are subjective opinions; whether they are true or false is up to the individual.

In which case they are logically true. Preference statements are always logically true. 

 

If you have conflicting preference statements, you have a theoretically endless debate. In the absence of actual sales figures and objective data on Bionicle 2015's success or failure, that's all we have.  

[Jobber]

Personal Taste Set #1: 

 

1. Bionicle Gen 2's story's purpose is to sell toys. 

 

2. Bionicle Gen1 wasn't that good; Bionicle Gen 2 does a better job selling toys than Gen 1. 

 

3. The sets are most important; the story isn't really important. 

 

Personal Taste Set #2: 

 

1. Bionicle Gen 2's story's purpose is to tell a story. 

 

2. Bionicle Gen 1 told a better story than Bionicle Gen 2 has. 

 

3. The story is important; it needs to be engaging, otherwise the sets won't sell. 

 

All six of the statements above are true. 

 

I agree with the first three. The story at this point is just another marketing tactic, so it doesn't have to be 'epic' just good enough to convince people to buy sets (if that wasn't obvious in the first place). Whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion. 

[ToaDraco]

It's interesting how consistently G1 BIONICLE's later years are disparaged around here, when I personally consider them to have some of the theme's best storytelling, period. Hm.

 

My main beef with G2 so far is how non-existent the world feels. Okoto barely qualifies as a setting. Ok, we have the Temple of Time and the Ancient City, and then...what, exactly? There is no feel to the island, no atmosphere. There is not a single named inhabitant of the place, outside of Ekimu and Makuta. None of the villagers have names, and the Protectors who are supposed to apparently play the role of Turaga have no personalities. Nothing. We literally do not have a single character trait for a single one of them. Couple that with the webisodes that almost exclusively focus on Tahu, who has no actual personality there either, and you end up with a story that isn't there.

 

There are promising hints of things to come, such as the constant references to 'Time' and the Ancient City...but the problem is that nothing is being established. The Ancient City is clearly meant to house secrets and revelations...but I feel no real interest in discovering them. G2 is trying to build up a sense of mystery without establishing anything first. Why should I care about the truth behind this world or the adventures to come when I don't feel anything for...well, anything? Why should I care about these Toa? This island? The story team has put no effort into building investment in what we're seeing here.

 

There is simplification...and there is just poor story-telling. And try as some here might make it appear, 2015 is not equal to 2001, in any department (story-wise, of course. The sets rock.)

 

Edit: 

The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

Difference: the Morbuzakh conflict was told over the course of two books and several comics. The books especially used this "placeholder" conflict to establish firmly both the personalities of the Toa as well as the setting, while also including abundant foreshadowing for what would happen down the line. In addition to that, Nidhiki and Krekka featured prominently in the first half of the year, providing a threat to the Toa Metru that directly related to the larger conflict (Makuta's plan). They were mysterious, they were dangerous, and they built up suspense. As a bonus, we had Ahkmou the traitor as well.

 

It's not fair to compare 2015, the first year of G2, to 2004, and just as well, because there is no comparison to be made.

^ this x10

 

 

 

There are animations yet to be released.  There are books that have been announced.  Heck, even just going by the sets, we're getting Ekimu, so there has to be something about that coming up.

 

You bring up the fact that 2001 promised a PC game, but I think that hurts the case more than helps it; promises are meaningless if they aren't carried through.  You can promise a lot, but that only matters if you can deliver.

 

I see the argument that there's no big conflict yet a lot.  But the fact that there's any conflict at all, especially something that's represented in the sets, is more than most of Gen 1 can claim.  This wave's sets at the very least have enemies to fight against, whereas many past years simply would've left it at "good guys now, bad guys next wave".  The Metru Nui years are a good example of this; 2004 started with six Toa and six Matoran, and the premise that the Toa have to fight the Morbuzakh, which had no presence in the sets at all.  Only in the summer did the "real" story of that year happen.  Same in 2005, with the Hordika having to stand on their own until the summer gave them adversaries in the Visorak.

 

The conflict in the current story may not seem all that dire, but that's because it is, in essence, a placeholder; in this case, though, it's actually tied into the Toa's overall quest rather than being an arbitrary obstacle.

 

I can give you the books part - I guess since books have been a staple of Bionicle since 2003 it was only to be expected, so to me it does not fuel any excitement. But yeah, I guess we have that. Some of the excitement for the animations is tainted by the fact that all of them (at least for the first wave) were uploaded already. 

 

Regarding the cancelled PC game - at least they talked about it. The Mask of Creation game came out of nowhere, with no advertising and I still don't even see much promotion for it from LEGO. I think the payoff for that games release would have been better if it had prior advertising. Not keeping promises isn't good either though, I will agree to that. Bionicle Gen I was especially bad in that regard. 

 

Now about conflict - the fact that this line of sets comes packaged with conflict ready to go is what makes its execution so disappointing! In Gen I, to ensure the story didn't crawl to a snails pace, the writers tried to make conflict with what they could. The Morbuzakh is just a small part of winter 2004 - a faceless, non-set enemy designed to be an adversary to the Toa Metru toys - but the real conflict of that portion of the year was the Toa Metru's quest to find the Great Kanoka discs and prove their worth as Toa. The Morbuzakh essentially was a plot device that emphasized the importance of their quest and why the Toa had to team up with the Matoran to defeat it. There was solid storytelling to be found there. 2005 actually was unique in that all the sets were released at once (though, at different times in different parts of the world) so the story ending up being consistent throughout the year without a need to set up a next wave of sets. The "main" story happened in the Summer (more accurately fall) because they had to tie it into a movie franchise. Despite this, the books told a lot more story in those "blank" portions of the year then the movies ever hoped to. 

 

The only year that I felt didn't make successful conflict out of one wave was 2007 with the Barraki, but even then there was some intrigue to what lies beneath the surface and what happened to the Matoran of Voya Nui. In comparison, 2015 has all the set-up for conflict but never utilizes any of it. Various types of Skull Spiders with different powers? Their ability to snare onto the villagers faces and enslave them? That's awesome, so why aren't they putting this to full use? They don't have a backstory and they haven't set it up well enough that I even care about it. We have potential for exciting conflict right off the bat and its not happening. By comparison, the 2001 villains were simple Rahi tainted with evil, but the infected masks were utilized to their full potential. The Rahi's importance and defining characteristics were already stated beforehand.

 

Also, I agree with toa kopaka4372 - Okoto is, well, boring. The island of Mata Nui was treated like a character itself - there was so much emphasis on the landmarks and history which made it feel like an organic, living component of the story. I don't think Bionicle would have been so enticing without the focus on the island itself. That's probably why it remained a defining symbol of the franchise throughout its original run, despite changing locations in further years. I don't feel like the same amount of thought went into creating Okoto. We don't know the culture and society, the inhabitants, we don't know anything about the flora and fauna, and I personally can't really care about their mission to save the island because I don't feel its importance. 

 

-NotS

 

I whole-heartily agree. There is no story, no character and no soul to gen2 so far and I seriously hope this changes soon and hopefully the books help with this. Bionicle's initial creation was about not only selling toys but about doing so in a way that creates a story and a franchise all its own for children to read about, explore, be inspired by, and much more. It seems this time around, LEGO is so scared of adding anything remotely complicated (like names for goodness sake) that they seem to forget why they experimented and took a risk with Bionicle in the first place, the same reasons it lasted a full decade. I fear they're over-caution will be what dooms the reboot and I really hope they prove me wrong by doing some real world-building and character development. After all, they essentially copied the formula used for Bionicle and created Ninjago and that worked beautifully. It would be sad if they shied away from it for the theme that gave them that formula and proved that it can be very successful in the first place. Having more media about the theme is an important part of that. The videos, while a great idea, are not long enough or numerous enough to convey the story. For me, the comics and books were my primary source for the story. Ideally, bringing back comics or making a tv show would be significant enough to really flesh out the story.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Ok, maybe I need to go to my not so local target and see what they have. if nothing else they make good parts packs. Also I could take Onua's mask and have it painted... lol.

[Regitnui]

I'm going to ask a question to the people who believe Bionicle 2 has failed to meet their standards. How much of what you say is missing is non-debatably necessary? Not 'it would be nice to have', or 'these gave gen1 character so gen2 should do it too', but what is strictly necessary to tell the story?

 

---

 

In less controversial news, the latest English animation shows Pohatu gliding along in one of his dust devils while holding his boomerangs in his hands. This leads me to suspect that the boomarangs aren't strictly necessary for whirlwind travel, but instead offer better control or greater speed while worn instead of carried. Imbalso guessing that this applies to most adrenaline mode weapons as well; Gali can swim without her shark-tail, Onua can dig without the shovels, Lewa can jump or swing through the air without relying on his turbines, Tahu can travel across lava (on stepping stones) and Kopaka can hike through blizzards. Their adrenaline mode tools only speed up or offer more options when it comes to travelling.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Regitnui

[dotcom]

I'm going to ask a question to the people who believe Bionicle 2 has failed to meet their standards. How much of what you say is missing is necessary? Not 'it would be nice to have', or 'these gave gen1 character so gen2 should do it too', but what is strictly necessary to tell the story?

More screentime for people who aren't Tahu.

[Regitnui]

 

 

I'm going to ask a question to the people who believe Bionicle 2 has failed to meet their standards. How much of what you say is missing is necessary? Not 'it would be nice to have', or 'these gave gen1 character so gen2 should do it too', but what is strictly necessary to tell the story?

More screentime for people who aren't Tahu.

Not yet necessary. We know the other characters get some screentime when they enter the story, but considering all of the Toa's initial mask-finding experiences are going to be incredibly similar, why not stick with the eventual leader and most vibrant colours?

[Torchbearer]

 

Has anyone here asked someone that wasn't raised with BIONICLE? Great, glad to hear none of you did. Because guess what? I barely knew what BIONICLE was until June last year and even I think the new line is being handled poorly plot-wise. Great concepts, terrible usage.

 

Mask of Creation hasn't got anything on MNOG, and the Bohrok animations were far cooler that the current mini-movies.

 

How old are you? Are you within the target audience? Being new to the theme is only half the battle as far as being able to judge the actual effectiveness of the line; if you're not a kid, chances are you're still viewing it through the lens of an adult who thinks everything they grew up with is the best that could ever have been, and thus will be more critical of new things.

 

Do I wish we had more than 90 second animations that waste valuable time providing a recap almost every episode when they really don't have the time to spare? Of course! But at the same time, I can also recognize that my little siblings are completely in love with them, and are thrilled to be able to be a part of the series their big sister was a fan of.

How old am I? Old enough that I bought a sealed disc copy of Fallout 1 when I was 16 from a local EB games (and believe me, I'm far younger than that makes me sound).

 

But I've got a question for you, my friend. If I am not in the target audience for 2015's line, then therefore I simultaneously am not a part of the target audience for 2001. So, where does you argument stand now?

 

Your argument falls apart because you're stripping it of the word "nostalgia" but applying the same principle. As I said before, I'm completely free of the nostalgia argument simply because I wasn't there at the time. Yes, I'm not the target audience of Gen 2. But simultaneously, I'm not the audience of Gen 1 either and I only first experienced that last year. I have experience (albeit small) with both Gen 1 and Gen 2, and I can look upon it objectively because I "discovered" Gen 1 BIONICLE only because of Gen 2. I can look upon both lines with an adult's eye and feel no remorse or nostalgia in ripping it ball from socket, so to speak.

 

Were the "Golden Years" of BIONICLE perfect? Absolutely not, and I'd go so far as to say that I detest parts of the original marketing (mainly the comics). But nevertheless, BIONICLE Gen 2 has a lot of learning to do from Gen 1's success.

[Regitnui]

But I've got a question for you, my friend. If I am not in the target audience for 2015's line, then therefore I simultaneously am not a part of the target audience for 2001. So, where does you argument stand now?

Wait, what? How does that make logical sense? The target audience for 2001 was the previous generation (mine), not the current generation of children. How on earth can the 20-somethings' childhood, spent in the years before selfies and Myspace, be directly equated to the more digital childhood of this generation? How can my childhood be directly equated to someone who grew up in the 80's?

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

The clear Mask of Fire was produced in intentionally limited numbers to be a very valuable NYCC exclusive. It would kinda ruin the point to suddenly mass-produce it for an activity book.

 

True that there was exclusive packaging that was limited to NYCC but apparently not all clear Tahu Masks have that distinction. If they have an over-abundance of clear Masks, they might just give them away via other methods (like they did with the poisoned Hau Nuva in the Chronicles box set, Gold Vahi and Mask of Time in the 500 pc tub etc.)

 

And welcome back Tahu5181!

 

-NotS

 

When I got it they ran out of Poisoned Haus. Instead, I received Lhiikan's Kanohi Hau..

 

 

 

 

 

HAU DID THAT HAPPEN?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Iaredios

[Torchbearer]

 

But I've got a question for you, my friend. If I am not in the target audience for 2015's line, then therefore I simultaneously am not a part of the target audience for 2001. So, where does you argument stand now?

Wait, what? How does that make logical sense? The target audience for 2001 was the previous generation (mine), not the current generation of children. How on earth can the 20-somethings' childhood, spent in the years before selfies and Myspace, be directly equated to the more digital childhood of this generation? How can my childhood be directly equated to someone who grew up in the 80's?

 

I had a medium size-ish post talking about what you just said, but I accidentally logged out in another tab and didn't save my post before refreshing the page after it wouldn't add my post to the page.

 

So I'll give you a TL;DR version: People aren't the same, I'm a special snowflake.

 

But really though, I had a very... special childhood and I'm a blend of the two generations. We'll just have to wait and see what the new generation thinks of MNOG and the 2015 animations.

[Banana Gunz]

I'm going to ask a question to the people who believe Bionicle 2 has failed to meet their standards. How much of what you say is missing is non-debatably necessary? Not 'it would be nice to have', or 'these gave gen1 character so gen2 should do it too', but what is strictly necessary to tell the story?

 

Yeah, it would be nice to have, because I'd like to actually have a nice Bionicle.

 

We don't have to get a good or quality Bionicle story, would Bionicle be good without one? No.

 

What you're saying makes no sense to me, because when it comes to things and stories like Bionicle, you don't have to have anything. Everything can just be bland, boring and the same, but there's no universal law keeping you from not putting anything interesting in. There's a very good reason why some things are added into stories even though they physically don't have to be- because they make them better, and that's just very plain to see.

 

I'm just saying that there are certain things that would make Gen2 so much better if done, does it have to be? No, you can stick with the plain and flat stuff we've gotten so far and try to convince yourself that it's much greater than it really is. If you want a greater, more immersive story, well that's why you do and add certain things to make it better. One of the key complaints about Gen2 that I and others have made is how bare bones it is, and that is a completely legitimate complaint.

[Regitnui]

Adding animals, longer episodes, locations we're not going to visit and cameos will not make the story better. Bigger, yes, but not necessarily better. Unnecessary bloating, i remind you, was something that killed Gen1. Who's to say streamlining the story isn't a good thing?

 

Also, since maybe ninety percent of you are from the first world and can Netflix all night without your ISP caring much, many places in the world cannot afford to watch a full half-hour episode online. I live in one of these countries, and there are many Lego-buying families worse off than my single bachelor existence. I dare say that perhaps the online content is so sparse so people with expensive or slow internet can still watch them. We'll have the books for a deeper look, much more accessible as they are to those of us in the third-world who still remember what internet cables look like.

[Iblis]

Adding animals, longer episodes, locations we're not going to visit and cameos will not make the story better. Bigger, yes, but not necessarily better. Unnecessary bloating, i remind you, was something that killed Gen1. Who's to say streamlining the story isn't a good thing?

 

I think stream lining the story is a great thing however at the moment the story are entirely bare bones (okay maybe a tiny smidgen of sinew); [unnecessary] bloating is often bad in my strong opinion, but the story needs to be a bit bigger to be able to give it any real 'depth'; if: G2 continues with every sixish months bringing in 20 minutes of combined webisodes & ads + few new sets which include a very short comic, then I simply don't think the story will be able to gain any great depth or be hugely interesting or greatly captivating, however Wave 2 might bring much more than Wave 1, or 2016 bring more than 2015 et cetera, we might even get more story stuff before or in May! (Although I doubt it...)

 

Also, since maybe ninety percent of you are from the first world and can Netflix all night without your ISP caring much, many places in the world cannot afford to watch a full half-hour episode online. I live in one of these countries, and there are many Lego-buying families worse off than my single bachelor existence. I dare say that perhaps the online content is so sparse so people with expensive or slow internet can still watch them. We'll have the books for a deeper look, much more accessible as they are to those of us in the third-world who still remember what internet cables look like.

 

I think this is an important point... & whilst I personally found the comics in G1 to be the most inaccessible non-set content, I maintain that there are other viable ways for the story~world to be built; & I don't think it would be a bad thing if the webisodes told neither more or less than the comics or books etc.

IE I think the story shouldn't be (heavily) split between different formats, but should be replicated across different formats... Although I suspect it would be better if there were things in books/comics/tv/etc that weren't online so as to help promote the books/comics/TVshow

[Torchbearer]

Adding animals, longer episodes, locations we're not going to visit and cameos will not make the story better. Bigger, yes, but not necessarily better. Unnecessary bloating, i remind you, was something that killed Gen1. Who's to say streamlining the story isn't a good thing?

 

Also, since maybe ninety percent of you are from the first world and can Netflix all night without your ISP caring much, many places in the world cannot afford to watch a full half-hour episode online. I live in one of these countries, and there are many Lego-buying families worse off than my single bachelor existence. I dare say that perhaps the online content is so sparse so people with expensive or slow internet can still watch them. We'll have the books for a deeper look, much more accessible as they are to those of us in the third-world who still remember what internet cables look like.

Several years of bloating and ridiculous aesthetic, location and style changes were what killed BIONICLE, not the first three years. There's a difference between bloating and added depth. Things such as Ussal crabs and the assorted flora and fauna of the island of Mata Nui make the story feel rich and alive, but sudden turns like Metru Nui were, arguably, in the long run for the worst. And MNOG came out in a time where dial-up was the norm. Are you really going to play the slow internet card?

 

Names for the Protectors isn't going to kill Gen 2. Personalities for the Protectors isn't going to kill Gen 2. Variation among the villagers so they don't all look like clones isn't going to kill Gen 2. "Inspiration" builds that don't consist solely of Toa with half a Protector sticking out of them won't either. The problem is that the story is so simplistic that it's almost a facade. The only hope at the moment is the upcoming Vahi storyline (and let's not open that can of worms right now) and perhaps the Ancient City. But we know literally nothing of Okoto right now save for some sparse details. We know as much about Okoto as we do Makuhero city.

 

Edit: What Iblis said.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Torchbearer

[Regitnui]

Edit: What Iblis said.

That should have been your entire post, not an addition to it.

 

I'm going to point out, again, that we do have a book coming out in the second half of the year. By not having anything more than 'Toa find masks, go to city' for the first Sox months, perhaps the story team want this to be a opening chapter and therefore 'poor'. The second half of the year, with the book, seems to be the meat of the planned story. We should wait until then to reserve judgement.

 

As for the animals, I dare say only a few of those were planned form the beginning, and the rest just cropped up as things went along.

 

What I don't get is why people want the story to either throw people in on the deep end or put the entire planned world on the website with no regard for later reveals.

[Ford]

A quick question about the book coming later this year: How exactly are they going to market it?

I ask this because the only way that I ever found out about the books in the past was through the comics. The books didn't get commercials on television, nor did they get much recognition from Bionicle's official website (from what I recall, anyway. I didn't get to the website until about 2005). They were very rarely featured in the Lego catalogs, but that's just it.

I think they will put an advertisement in the form of a video with a vague call to action like "The Story Continues" or "Delve Deeper into the World of...". Not to say that those ideas are bad, but just remember that they are targeted towards children.

[believe victims]

In less controversial news, the latest English animation shows Pohatu gliding along in one of his dust devils while holding his boomerangs in his hands. This leads me to suspect that the boomarangs aren't strictly necessary for whirlwind travel, but instead offer better control or greater speed while worn instead of carried. Imbalso guessing that this applies to most adrenaline mode weapons as well; Gali can swim without her shark-tail, Onua can dig without the shovels, Lewa can jump or swing through the air without relying on his turbines, Tahu can travel across lava (on stepping stones) and Kopaka can hike through blizzards. Their adrenaline mode tools only speed up or offer more options when it comes to travelling.

 

To me, it seems to confirm that Pohatu's current Adrenalin Mode was a fairly late change. Most media depicts his boomerangs folded up on his feet (even the comic on the back of the box) which leads me to believe that, originally, they were intended to function as a cleat or something similar to his G1 incarnation's foot things. In that case, in that media it's probably more likely their function is for when he's walking long distances, like why we wear hiking boots.

[Tarvaxx]

Yeah, I never knew about the books during Bionicle's reign. I feel like if you're going to tell a story, you should pick a specific media and make it easily accessible. A lot of people rarely read books now, so that might not be the best way to go if you're trying to make a world that's enticing and immersive for children. They SHOULD have made the animations last longer, with more time spent on details and world building ALONG with the quest of the Toa. Either that or there should have been more than 9.

 

Also, to the people using the "it's targeted towards children" excuse: If children aren't enticed to by a good story (like the past generation could be), then doesn't that mean that human beings are becoming less intelligent? If the answer is yes, then I'm disappointed in how the world has been raising its children. If the answer is no, then whey the heck do industries push the whole "children are too stupid to understand this" ploy on so many marketing decisions? It's extremely discriminatory. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by BlatantlyHeroic

[believe victims]

Also, to the people using the "it's targeted towards children" excuse: If children aren't enticed to by a good story (like the past generation could be), then doesn't that mean that human beings are becoming less intelligent? If the answer is yes, then I'm disappointed in how the world has been raising its children. If the answer is no, then whey the heck do industries push the whole "children are too stupid to understand this" ploy on so many marketing decisions? It's extremely discriminatory. 

 

I'm still not seeing how this story is inherently worse than the previous one. Could it be told better? Of course! But 2001 wasn't told perfectly either; we didn't even get a cohesive plot line for it until 2003! Ignoring how they're being told, the stories, outside of meaningless fluff like a million mask powers and characters, are really on the same level. Sure, Okoto isn't quite as filled out as Mata Nui, but I find that an odd reason to declare this story will forever be inferior to the sluggish behemoth of useless information and tryhard edginess that was Bionicle G1.

 

It's not about kids being stupider today, either. Bionicle G1 confused many kids then, too. That's why they streamlined it.

[Tarvaxx]

 

Also, to the people using the "it's targeted towards children" excuse: If children aren't enticed to by a good story (like the past generation could be), then doesn't that mean that human beings are becoming less intelligent? If the answer is yes, then I'm disappointed in how the world has been raising its children. If the answer is no, then whey the heck do industries push the whole "children are too stupid to understand this" ploy on so many marketing decisions? It's extremely discriminatory. 

 

I'm still not seeing how this story is inherently worse than the previous one. Could it be told better? Of course! But 2001 wasn't told perfectly either; we didn't even get a cohesive plot line for it until 2003! Ignoring how they're being told, the stories, outside of meaningless fluff like a million mask powers and characters, are really on the same level. Sure, Okoto isn't quite as filled out as Mata Nui, but I find that an odd reason to declare this story will forever be inferior to the sluggish behemoth of useless information and tryhard edginess that was Bionicle G1.

 

It's not about kids being stupider today, either. Bionicle G1 confused many kids then, too. That's why they streamlined it.

 

It has more to do with the story not being consistent and going to weird places than it does with being "convoluted". Many people have already explained how world building can only help a line, and that just because you don't "need something" to sell a toy line, doesn't mean you shouldn't have it. Ever since i was young I was taught to put my all into a job, quality over quantity. We're not getting quantity, and that's fine, but we're not getting a quality story to compensate for it either. Due to this fact, it seems like everything this year is just half-arsed. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by BlatantlyHeroic

[Ford]

 

Also, to the people using the "it's targeted towards children" excuse: If children aren't enticed to by a good story (like the past generation could be), then doesn't that mean that human beings are becoming less intelligent? If the answer is yes, then I'm disappointed in how the world has been raising its children. If the answer is no, then whey the heck do industries push the whole "children are too stupid to understand this" ploy on so many marketing decisions? It's extremely discriminatory. 

 

I'm still not seeing how this story is inherently worse than the previous one. Could it be told better? Of course! But 2001 wasn't told perfectly either; we didn't even get a cohesive plot line for it until 2003! Ignoring how they're being told, the stories, outside of meaningless fluff like a million mask powers and characters, are really on the same level. Sure, Okoto isn't quite as filled out as Mata Nui, but I find that an odd reason to declare this story will forever be inferior to the sluggish behemoth of useless information and tryhard edginess that was Bionicle G1.

People seem to be forgetting that one of the reasons that Okoto may not be fully fleshed out yet is possibly due to the fact that the story may need to stay centered on that island. Perhaps there are hidden structures on the island that could lead to future story points? Has anyone else thought of this?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Fordianl

[Jobber]

It has nothing to do with intelligence. It's kids' attention-spans. I'm pretty sure a 7 year-old doesn't want to sit on the computer all day, watching animations to 'build up the world'.

[Quisoves Potoo]

Comparing 2015 to 2001 is rather disingenuous, in my opinion. Remember that BIONICLE was initially going to last but a single year. So it was in LEGO's best interests to promote the theme as much as possible. 2002 maintained the hype, but it settled down considerably thereafter. On the other hand, LEGO has stated that it plans for Gen2 to run at least three years (and it is well aware of its potential to last much longer.) Billund may be playing its cards closer to its chest, this time round.

Also-
2001's primary means of story-telling were MNOG (which is a rare gem that was never intended to be of much consequence) and the comics (which LEGO has ceased making.) Later, the books came along (something we will be getting in the Fall,) though in my experience, only the diehard fans bought them or really knew of their existence. Also, should LEGO make a television-series for BIONICLE, only for it to panned, it would, at this stage, leave a bad taste in folks' mouths (ala Legends of Chima, or so I am given to understand.) I'm not surprised that LEGO is being cautious with the story.

 

For my part, I'd much rather we had these genuinely likeable animations (though I do wish they'd gotten an English narrator as strong as the Italian fellow,) however few there are, than a cringe-worthy TV series in the vein of those of Ninjago and Chima. Though I suspect I am in the minority, at least in regards to the former.

[Aanchir]

We're not getting quantity, and that's fine, but we're not getting a quality story to compensate for it either.

This is, of course, a matter of opinion. I've been pretty pleased with the quality of the story so far. There are, of course a few things I wish we had that we don't have currently, like separate bios for the Protectors (though the lack of individual names for them has had no negative impact really, and probably never will). I'd also love to see more of Okoto culture in the future, though we have gotten a good look at some aspects like how the title of Protector (and with it, the Prophecy of Heroes) is handed down from generation to generation. But "room for improvement" does not a bad story make.

 

The character we've seen the most of, Tahu, feels quite relatable, and his believable level of confusion in light of his amnesia and newfound responsibility serves as a great introduction to this world for new fans. What we've seen of the Protector of Fire so far is much like what we knew of Vakama in 2001 — a brave and wise leader (though I'd say the Protector of Fire, who is actually willing to accompany his Toa into danger, has already made more of an impression than Vakama had by this point in the story).

 

The Skull Spiders have been established as a formidable threat, in spite of many of their special powers remaining unused in the animations. The Toa, judging from their bios, have diverse personalities with clear strengths and weaknesses. The backstory has been well established, while still leaving plenty of mysteries to be investigated in the future (like the history of the ancient city, or what became of the three legendary masks). The story has had a good balance of seriousness and humor. And of course, plenty of room has been left for imagination.

 

Overall, we haven't gotten a lot, but I think what we've gotten has been pretty impressive and has me looking forward to what's still to come.