Matoran Spheres: How?

[T.B.O.C]

So, it's common knowlegde that the Matoran of Metru-Nui lost their memories and became smaller in stature because of prolonged time inside the matoran spheres. My question is: why?I feel that in the back of my mind, I know this, but prolonged time away from BIONICLE made me frget (bad pun, huh?)Was that an effect the matoran spheres were supposed to have for Teridax's plan? I remember that they were to have forgotten some things, so they would believe Teridax to be their saviour, but was the physical effect a by-product or was it intentional?

[Mask Maker Takuna]

Well, his broad scheme was to cast Mata Nui to sleep, only to take over his body when he woke up. So, for that, the Matoran Pods were necessary to remove the Matoran from working in Metru Nui, Mata Nui's brain, with no actual need for them to lose their memories.However, I do seem to recall some lines from Legends of Metru Nui about Makuta planning to use their memory loss to establish himself as their hero, but I can't recall the exact words used. However, since he was establishing himself as the ruler of the entire Matoran Universe, it would definitely serve him in that respect. After all, when you establish your tyrannical hold over a universe, you don't want your people remembering the idyllic near-utopia that you just supplanted.

[Erebus]

The Matoran spheres were probably supposed to weaken the Matoran in case they learned the truth and try to rebel against Makuta Teridax. It's never really been talked about, so it's a good question.

[The Great Spirit DM]

Well, his broad scheme was to cast Mata Nui to sleep, only to take over his body when he woke up. So, for that, the Matoran Pods were necessary to remove the Matoran from working in Metru Nui, Mata Nui's brain, with no actual need for them to lose their memories.However, I do seem to recall some lines from Legends of Metru Nui about Makuta planning to use their memory loss to establish himself as their hero, but I can't recall the exact words used. However, since he was establishing himself as the ruler of the entire Matoran Universe, it would definitely serve him in that respect. After all, when you establish your tyrannical hold over a universe, you don't want your people remembering the idyllic near-utopia that you just supplanted.

I'll remember that the next time I supplant a near-utopia.:PAnyway, I think that Teridax may not have actually expected that to happen. If he did, I think he intended to use it to his advantage. This is Teridax, after all. Who knows, he might have learned of the GB in the MU and that might have influenced the Plan.

[Taipu1]

I'm sure it was all an intended effect. What I want to know is, how did Teridax make all those spheres? BS01 just said he made them. Did he make them out of EP? Did he use Rahkshi labour? These are all questions I want to know the answer to.

[Mask Maker Takuna]

I'm sure it was all an intended effect. What I want to know is, how did Teridax make all those spheres? BS01 just said he made them. Did he make them out of EP? Did he use Rahkshi labour? These are all questions I want to know the answer to.

I'd hazard a guess that he probably didn't make them all on his own, (although that would explain the drawn-out nature of the Plan; he needed a lot of free time to make all those pods), but that instead, he turned to some of the manufacturers in the Matoran Universe that already worked for the Brotherhood, like the Nynrah Ghosts or the Vortixx.

[The 1st Shadow]

Since the Ghosts were already against the Brotherhood for making them create the Fohrok, I'd say he enlisted the help of the Vortixx, or maybe another Makuta with that kind of skills and time.

[a goose]

I'm sure it was all an intended effect. What I want to know is, how did Teridax make all those spheres? BS01 just said he made them. Did he make them out of EP? Did he use Rahkshi labour? These are all questions I want to know the answer to.

I'd hazard a guess that he probably didn't make them all on his own, (although that would explain the drawn-out nature of the Plan; he needed a lot of free time to make all those pods), but that instead, he turned to some of the manufacturers in the Matoran Universe that already worked for the Brotherhood, like the Nynrah Ghosts or the Vortixx.

I don't think Terry made them himself, either. I honestly thought they had already been made. The only thing I honestly credit him with is chocolate oranges. ( )I think it wasn't an intended effect, but he found out about it, and decided to use it to his advantage. The spheres' only intended effects were weakening the Matoran and keeping them out of the way, IMO.

[T.B.O.C]

I'm sure it was all an intended effect. What I want to know is, how did Teridax make all those spheres? BS01 just said he made them. Did he make them out of EP? Did he use Rahkshi labour? These are all questions I want to know the answer to.

Well, with Makuta, I'm not too surprised he made them. If I remember correctly, in Legends of Metru-Nui, they were trying to enforce the concept of Teridax imprisoning them, (in process making them forget Metru-Nui and anything else, to become brainwashed) and then reawakening them, to be their leader. I guess I never really implemented the whole taking over the MU plot into it (which is kind of weird, considering that's what he's been doing the entire time)I guess what boils down to now is, was the physical effect intentional or non-intentional? I know Erebus was talking about them being weaker so they couldn't overthrow or rebel against him (which, in all aspects is a very logical idea) but again, I don't think we know for sure. I'd PM Greg about this, but he has a lot of other things to tend to at the moment, as we all know.Wow, this is the best BIONICLE conversation I've had in a while... we should do this more often.

[bonesiii]

I think that question can be boiled down to one more basic question -- was this the first time that power was ever used, that Teridax could know the results of? If it was, then the physical results very well might have been unexpected (but welcome to him). If he or someone else had tested them prior, though (which to me seems more likely -- he is a planner, not a make-it-up-as-he-goes type), then he would know it, and incorporate it into his plan. Unless of course he didn't have access to the results, or if it hadn't been tested for that amount of time. So yeah, unsure. :PAs for who made them, I tend to doubt he did it himself. It's possible he had Matoran make them while he was Dume. They wouldn't have known why they were making them. (Unless they also had access to knowledge about past uses of them, but if they did then why would they get in willingly?) Either that or Vahki seem most likely to me -- easiest way to get them to the island is to make them there. But Vahki aren't builders as far as I know.

[dotcom]

I don't know about how he built them, but in Makuta's Guide to the Universe he states in his diary that he was perfectly aware of the effects the spheres would have, and counted on these happening to further his plans.

[Dralcax]

Memory loss makes them obedient, physical reduction in stature makes it difficult for them to effectively revolt. If you were a king, would you want all your subjects smart, strong, and armed enough to give them the ability to revolt and overthrow you? Terry could have taken on even the most powerful beings, but 1000 matoran might be too many targets to hit. On the other hand, he could magnetize them in a katamari-style attack. And on the other hand, even reduced in stature, they still might be able to do it by using trickery. Wait, that makes 3 hands.

[a goose]

Memory loss makes them obedient, physical reduction in stature makes it difficult for them to effectively revolt. If you were a king, would you want all your subjects smart, strong, and armed enough to give them the ability to revolt and overthrow you? Terry could have taken on even the most powerful beings, but 1000 matoran might be too many targets to hit. On the other hand, he could magnetize them in a katamari-style attack. And on the other hand, even reduced in stature, they still might be able to do it by using trickery. Wait, that makes 3 hands.

Yeah, but Makuta're shapeshifters. They can have three hands if they want. ()

[Guest]

It was definitely intentional, Teridax's original plan was based on it. Mutran had told him how Metru Nui was vital to Mata Nui's wellbeing, so he intended to wipe their minds and teach them he was their hero. That would've left him with complete control over Metru Nui which meant he could hold Mata Nui hostage and rule the universe.That all changed during the Great Cataclysm, which was considered a failure by the Brotherhood. The Matoran were taken away by the Toa Metru and told another fake story which made Teridax the enemy. So, he switched to his plan B, which he eventually put to completion.The Brotherhood had skilled engineers such as the Nynrah Ghosts that created many types of machinery for the Makuta, so it would make sense to me that they had them make the spheres as well.

[T.B.O.C]

Well yeah, I know it was intentional. I guess I relly should have phrased it like this: Was the physical stature intended or not (cause I know memory loss was) and how did the spheres have that effect on the matoran.

[Toa of Nerds]

Well, his broad scheme was to cast Mata Nui to sleep, only to take over his body when he woke up. So, for that, the Matoran Pods were necessary to remove the Matoran from working in Metru Nui, Mata Nui's brain, with no actual need for them to lose their memories.However, I do seem to recall some lines from Legends of Metru Nui about Makuta planning to use their memory loss to establish himself as their hero, but I can't recall the exact words used. However, since he was establishing himself as the ruler of the entire Matoran Universe, it would definitely serve him in that respect. After all, when you establish your tyrannical hold over a universe, you don't want your people remembering the idyllic near-utopia that you just supplanted.

I don't think Teridax planned on taking over Mata-Nui at that time. Right then, he just wanted the matoran to follow him because he was jealous of their loyalty to Mata-Nui. However, that plan was foiled by the Toa Metru, and he had to rethink.

I'm sure it was all an intended effect. What I want to know is, how did Teridax make all those spheres? BS01 just said he made them. Did he make them out of EP? Did he use Rahkshi labour? These are all questions I want to know the answer to.

I'd hazard a guess that he probably didn't make them all on his own, (although that would explain the drawn-out nature of the Plan; he needed a lot of free time to make all those pods), but that instead, he turned to some of the manufacturers in the Matoran Universe that already worked for the Brotherhood, like the Nynrah Ghosts or the Vortixx.

I'll bet he enlisted some Matoran/Vahki labor for his devices. Keep in mind that he was regarded as the turaga, so the matoran would do anything he asked them to do, even if the didn't understand. Somewhat of a weakness in the matoran governmental system, no?

[H]ow did the spheres have that effect on the matoran.

Question: if you were curled up in a ball for several years with no source of nutrition, would you come out just as strong as you were before?-don't touch my pocket protector

[Dorek]

It's basically because Teridax's original plan was to control the MU via a complete stranglehold on Metru Nui, its most important location. If the Matoran had no memories, they would essentially worship him once he re-introduced himself as their savior, and he would establish the society however he pleased. Only after failing in Metru Nui did he think to take over the entire universe itself.How exactly the sphere works is something that hasn't really been explained, nor do I think it's terribly relevant. It was supposed to make them forget, but I recall something about the shrinking side-effect being unforseen, but I can't find a specific source for that.

[BZCoolness]

His original plan was to take over Metru Nui at the very least and be hailed as the Great Spirit. To do this, he needed to erase the memory of Mata Nui, so he could actually come forward and claim to be their ruler and savior. Because they didn't remember, he assumed they'd just follow him blindly, seeing as he was the only one awake while they were sleeping as far as they knew.In terms of the pods: like Dorek said above, it hasn't been explained how the sphere works, so we can't really know for sure until the information is released (which I doubt it will be anytime soon). I'd always heard the shrinking was just a side-effect of being comatose in a sphere for that long a time, but maybe Teridax intended to shrink them so they wouldn't be that much of a threat? I mean, not that they would be anyway, but if they were smaller and weaker, they couldn't fight back as much. It's also possible that he designed the smallness so they'd believe even more so (think about it. Weaker stuff tends to revere the stronger stuff more, or at least fear them more).

[fishers64]

I think the purpose of this topic is to ask where Makuta got that memory erasure power so he could incorporate it into the spheres. The only other instances of that happening(that I can think of) is the Toa canisters of the Mata malfunctioning and causing memory loss and the time slip and Mata Nui losing his memory.Mata Nui had the power to erase memory, but how did Makuta get it to place it into the Spheres? Does placing a MU inhabitant asleep in a confined space for a long time erase memory? It would seem so. GB design flaw? If their memory were merely mechanical I could imagine it would be like erasing a hard drive. Maybe it is both mechanical and organic, and that is why it takes time to erase - it gets erased on the mechanical side, and there is still information in the organic side that cycles into the mechanical side and gets removed...And now I'm speculating.

[Baron Von Nebula]

I'd assume the memory loss was intentional so he could make himself appear as a hero, especially since he did that with Ahkmou. I would also think that he reasoned weakening the Matoran (especially those of Metru Nui) would weaken Mata Nui, allowing him to access even greater control. Teridax has better minions than the Matoran could be anyways; he wouldn't mind them being weaker as long as it didn't destroy the MU.

[ZTG]

My theory.Makuta said in the 2nd movie he wanted to erase their memories to place him as their "Great Spirit". He placed them in the spherus, and I guess they shrunk in order to fit, and also, I think he wanted them NOT to rebel, take a look at what the Matoran Resistance and the Ta-koro Guards can do! If anything we have learned about matoran, they always surprise us! Makuta however forgot there were more than the metru nui matoran. But I guess he knew, and he just needed to fool the Metu Nui matoran so he take ove rthe robot with ease, since the Metru Nui island was at the head, so he only needed to create spheres to shrink the matoran and erase their memories to prevent them from rebeling or stopping him.

[Taipu1]

My theory.Makuta said in the 2nd movie he wanted to erase their memories to place him as their "Great Spirit". He placed them in the spherus, and I guess they shrunk in order to fit, and also, I think he wanted them NOT to rebel, take a look at what the Matoran Resistance and the Ta-koro Guards can do! If anything we have learned about matoran, they always surprise us! Makuta however forgot there were more than the metru nui matoran. But I guess he knew, and he just needed to fool the Metu Nui matoran so he take ove rthe robot with ease, since the Metru Nui island was at the head, so he only needed to create spheres to shrink the matoran and erase their memories to prevent them from rebeling or stopping him.

I believe Makuta only concocted his Grand 'Take over the robot' scheme during the thousand years after he put the matoran in the spheres.

[T.B.O.C]

My theory.Makuta said in the 2nd movie he wanted to erase their memories to place him as their "Great Spirit". He placed them in the spherus, and I guess they shrunk in order to fit, and also, I think he wanted them NOT to rebel, take a look at what the Matoran Resistance and the Ta-koro Guards can do! If anything we have learned about matoran, they always surprise us! Makuta however forgot there were more than the metru nui matoran. But I guess he knew, and he just needed to fool the Metu Nui matoran so he take ove rthe robot with ease, since the Metru Nui island was at the head, so he only needed to create spheres to shrink the matoran and erase their memories to prevent them from rebeling or stopping him.

I believe Makuta only concocted his Grand 'Take over the robot' scheme during the thousand years after he put the matoran in the spheres.

I believe he actually formulated "the plan" after disbanding the League of Six Kingdoms. In City of the Lost I beileve it was said from Teridax's perspective that the Barraki tried the impossible... for them, going on to say that it wasn't impossible for him.

[Taipu1]

My theory.Makuta said in the 2nd movie he wanted to erase their memories to place him as their "Great Spirit". He placed them in the spherus, and I guess they shrunk in order to fit, and also, I think he wanted them NOT to rebel, take a look at what the Matoran Resistance and the Ta-koro Guards can do! If anything we have learned about matoran, they always surprise us! Makuta however forgot there were more than the metru nui matoran. But I guess he knew, and he just needed to fool the Metu Nui matoran so he take ove rthe robot with ease, since the Metru Nui island was at the head, so he only needed to create spheres to shrink the matoran and erase their memories to prevent them from rebeling or stopping him.

I believe Makuta only concocted his Grand 'Take over the robot' scheme during the thousand years after he put the matoran in the spheres.

I believe he actually formulated "the plan" after disbanding the League of Six Kingdoms. In City of the Lost I beileve it was said from Teridax's perspective that the Barraki tried the impossible... for them, going on to say that it wasn't impossible for him.

But the Barraki plan was to take over the MU by force, and that was what Teridax meant as well. He planned to take over the MU, starting with Metru Nui. In the thousand years later, he planned to simply take it all over by inhabiting the robot, rather than conquering with an army.

[T.B.O.C]

My theory.Makuta said in the 2nd movie he wanted to erase their memories to place him as their "Great Spirit". He placed them in the spherus, and I guess they shrunk in order to fit, and also, I think he wanted them NOT to rebel, take a look at what the Matoran Resistance and the Ta-koro Guards can do! If anything we have learned about matoran, they always surprise us! Makuta however forgot there were more than the metru nui matoran. But I guess he knew, and he just needed to fool the Metu Nui matoran so he take ove rthe robot with ease, since the Metru Nui island was at the head, so he only needed to create spheres to shrink the matoran and erase their memories to prevent them from rebeling or stopping him.

I believe Makuta only concocted his Grand 'Take over the robot' scheme during the thousand years after he put the matoran in the spheres.

I believe he actually formulated "the plan" after disbanding the League of Six Kingdoms. In City of the Lost I beileve it was said from Teridax's perspective that the Barraki tried the impossible... for them, going on to say that it wasn't impossible for him.

But the Barraki plan was to take over the MU by force, and that was what Teridax meant as well. He planned to take over the MU, starting with Metru Nui. In the thousand years later, he planned to simply take it all over by inhabiting the robot, rather than conquering with an army.

We also have to look at this from a stand-point. They couldn't have revealed the whole Great Spirit Robot thing during the 2004 saga. Also, he didn't know how he would be to accomplish that (and I'm not very sure, but I don't think he exactly knew Mata Nui was a robot at that point either) He didn't expect to be defeated at Metru-Nui, but remember, he had many back-up plans (he was said to even have a back-up plan for breakfast) and that's why he kind of won against the Toa (until he met Bota Magna.. tee hee)

[Taipu1]

We also have to look at this from a stand-point. They couldn't have revealed the whole Great Spirit Robot thing during the 2004 saga. Also, he didn't know how he would be to accomplish that (and I'm not very sure, but I don't think he exactly knew Mata Nui was a robot at that point either) He didn't expect to be defeated at Metru-Nui, but remember, he had many back-up plans (he was said to even have a back-up plan for breakfast) and that's why he kind of won against the Toa (until he met Bota Magna.. tee hee)

I don't believe he did know about the Giant robot at the time, but on the other hand, how exactly do you find out that your entire universe is a giant robot?Also, it was actually a small chunk of Aqua Magna that was his downfall.

[T.B.O.C]

We also have to look at this from a stand-point. They couldn't have revealed the whole Great Spirit Robot thing during the 2004 saga. Also, he didn't know how he would be to accomplish that (and I'm not very sure, but I don't think he exactly knew Mata Nui was a robot at that point either) He didn't expect to be defeated at Metru-Nui, but remember, he had many back-up plans (he was said to even have a back-up plan for breakfast) and that's why he kind of won against the Toa (until he met Bota Magna.. tee hee)

I don't believe he did know about the Giant robot at the time, but on the other hand, how exactly do you find out that your entire universe is a giant robot?Also, it was actually a small chunk of Aqua Magna that was his downfall.

That is a good question... though I think it was explained somewhere in the story. Oh and yes, it was Aqua Magna. I was reading Yesterday Quest while typing, so Bota Magna came out.

[ALVIS]

We also have to look at this from a stand-point. They couldn't have revealed the whole Great Spirit Robot thing during the 2004 saga. Also, he didn't know how he would be to accomplish that (and I'm not very sure, but I don't think he exactly knew Mata Nui was a robot at that point either) He didn't expect to be defeated at Metru-Nui, but remember, he had many back-up plans (he was said to even have a back-up plan for breakfast) and that's why he kind of won against the Toa (until he met Bota Magna.. tee hee)

I don't believe he did know about the Giant robot at the time, but on the other hand, how exactly do you find out that your entire universe is a giant robot?Also, it was actually a small chunk of Aqua Magna that was his downfall.

That is a good question... though I think it was explained somewhere in the story. Oh and yes, it was Aqua Magna. I was reading Yesterday Quest while typing, so Bota Magna came out.

Mutran. As Madame de Pompadour says in Doctor Who: The Girl in the Fireplace, "A door, once opened, may be passed through in either direction," referring to the Doctor telepathically scanning her mind. The same thing happened between Mutran and Tren Krom. Mutran learned from Tren Krom the true nature of Mata Nui, and then relayed that information to the Makuta.

[Guest]

Question: if you were curled up in a ball for several years with no source of nutrition, would you come out just as strong as you were before?

Answer: you wouldn't come out at all. But you have a point there, nutrition could have something to do with it, although Matoran don't seem to react to nutrition the same way we do. They don't seem to grow when they eat a lot and we've never heard of a fat Matoran before. Besides, if lack of nutrition and confinement does that to a Matoran, why didn't they regrow in the thousand years afterwards when they did have nutrition and weren't confined at all?

I think the purpose of this topic is to ask where Makuta got that memory erasure power so he could incorporate it into the spheres.

Yeah I thought that too, but it seems to be about the shrinking effect. Rereading the first post I realize it does actually mention that.

Mutran. As Madame de Pompadour says in Doctor Who: The Girl in the Fireplace, "A door, once opened, may be passed through in either direction," referring to the Doctor telepathically scanning her mind. The same thing happened between Mutran and Tren Krom. Mutran learned from Tren Krom the true nature of Mata Nui, and then relayed that information to the Makuta.

No, Greg confirmed that that wasn't what Mutran learned from Tren Krom. He learned Metru Nui was essential to the Great Spirit's wellbeing, that he could usurp him in the Core Processor and that Karda Nui provided the MU with power. The Makuta just found out he had the MU for a body when he was actually finished.

[Taipu1]

Question: if you were curled up in a ball for several years with no source of nutrition, would you come out just as strong as you were before?

Answer: you wouldn't come out at all. But you have a point there, nutrition could have something to do with it, although Matoran don't seem to react to nutrition the same way we do. They don't seem to grow when they eat a lot and we've never heard of a fat Matoran before. Besides, if lack of nutrition and confinement does that to a Matoran, why didn't they regrow in the thousand years afterwards when they did have nutrition and weren't confined at all?

They did get rebuilt, and It's possible it could happen again. Presumably the part affected by nutrition is the 15% organic bit of them, and that's all internal, so you wouldn't see any change there.Its the whole biomechanical thing that doesn't make sense to me with this. If they were entirely organic, or even mostly organic then I could see that they might change by spending a long time in a sphere. But they're mostly mechanical, so there must be some intentional mechanism in the spheres that deals with the 85% machine.

No, Greg confirmed that that wasn't what Mutran learned from Tren Krom. He learned Metru Nui was essential to the Great Spirit's wellbeing, that he could usurp him in the Core Processor and that Karda Nui provided the MU with power. The Makuta just found out he had the MU for a body when he was actually finished.

He must have known about the robot before hand, Teridax is intelligent, he wouldn't blindly manifest himself into a device without knowing that it was the control to a giant robot universe. I mean what if it hadn't been? What if it was a device that vapourised antidermis? Bit farfetched, I know, but my point is that he must have known exactly what he was doing, or it would just have been a stupid risk, that would have a 50/50 chance of doing anything, and just as likely backfire in his face.