Toa Mata Weaknesses?

[Fry]

So, in 2001, one of the things mentioned in the official Toa Mata-Mini Disc was that the Toa could not be exposed to their opposite element for too long, or else they would slow down and weaken. For instance, Tahu could not be exposed to cold for long, and vice versa with Kopaka. Is this still a thing in G1?

[Toa Kayn]

I think that their weaknesses were made up for by being together

[-Windrider-]

Moving to Storyline and Theories.

[RahiSpeak]

If it is still a thing, it's not mentioned on BS01 and as far as I know has never affected the plot (which may be why it's not on BS01).

Edited December 26, 2015 by RahiSpeak

[CaT in Rogue]

It did get brought up once or twice in the story, but the Toa were rarely in situations like that for too long. The only real example outside of 2001 I can think of would be Jaller in the Pit, but he was mutated by the Mask of Life to be a water creature, so it probably wouldn't affect him anyway.

 

Actually, come to think of it, how would that work, anyways? If a Toa of Water stood on a rock for too long, would that happen? Would Toa of Air be weakened by walking? Would Toa of Earth be weakened by breathing? And what about all the side elements without any clear opposites? Do they just not have that weakness?

 

Okay, come to think of it, I doubt this actually is canon, considering that it would make for some really stupid weaknesses.

[Fry]

It did get brought up once or twice in the story, but the Toa were rarely in situations like that for too long. The only real example outside of 2001 I can think of would be Jaller in the Pit, but he was mutated by the Mask of Life to be a water creature, so it probably wouldn't affect him anyway.

 

Actually, come to think of it, how would that work, anyways? If a Toa of Water stood on a rock for too long, would that happen? Would Toa of Air be weakened by walking? Would Toa of Earth be weakened by breathing? And what about all the side elements without any clear opposites? Do they just not have that weakness?

 

Okay, come to think of it, I doubt this actually is canon, considering that it would make for some really stupid weaknesses.

Gali is the Toa of Water; areas such as deserts weaken her

Tahu is the Toa of Fire; water weakens him

Kopaka is the Toa of Ice; fire weakens him

Onua has very sensitive vision; bright light can damage his eyes

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

[CaT in Rogue]

 

It did get brought up once or twice in the story, but the Toa were rarely in situations like that for too long. The only real example outside of 2001 I can think of would be Jaller in the Pit, but he was mutated by the Mask of Life to be a water creature, so it probably wouldn't affect him anyway.

 

Actually, come to think of it, how would that work, anyways? If a Toa of Water stood on a rock for too long, would that happen? Would Toa of Air be weakened by walking? Would Toa of Earth be weakened by breathing? And what about all the side elements without any clear opposites? Do they just not have that weakness?

 

Okay, come to think of it, I doubt this actually is canon, considering that it would make for some really stupid weaknesses.

Gali is the Toa of Water; areas such as deserts weaken her

Tahu is the Toa of Fire; water weakens him

Kopaka is the Toa of Ice; fire weakens him

Onua has very sensitive vision; bright light can damage his eyes

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

 

Oh. The way you worded it made it sound like being exposed to their literal opposite elements would weaken them all equally. As far as stuff like this goes, it does get brought up occasionally, but it never really impacts the plot very much,

[TheSkeletonMan939]

So, in 2001, one of the things mentioned in the official Toa Mata-Mini Disc was that the Toa could not be exposed to their opposite element for too long, or else they would slow down and weaken. For instance, Tahu could not be exposed to cold for long, and vice versa with Kopaka. Is this still a thing in G1?

 

That makes sense. I don't think they meant that Toa are literally weakened by the mere presence of the opposite element (like Superman and kryptonite), but that they were less resistant to it. I can imagine Kopaka getting much more tired out in Ta-Koro much more quickly than, say, Onua.

[Dibble Flubwibbler of DOOM]

yeah, i always wondered if something like this was a factor in the story.it always seemed to me that there wasnt much attention brought to the physcal state of the toa once they left their 'area'.always seemed like it should affect them and deserve more than a passing note.

 

however, this could bring up the answer to why there is a separate ice and water element,as jaller proved that fire is still effective in water, and kopaka was always portrayed as tahu's antithesis.of course, that could be a retroactively added coincidental bonus to the underwater plotline.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

Gali is the Toa of Water; areas such as deserts weaken her

 

 

Tahu is the Toa of Fire; water weakens him

Kopaka is the Toa of Ice; fire weakens him

Onua has very sensitive vision; bright light can damage his eyes

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

 

 

I haven't read the disc, but keep in mind that the elements early on were also associated with regions. Earth and Air are most likely opposites. Le-Matoran are described as energetic and constantly moving in the trees. Imagine how claustrophobic it would be in Onu-Koro.

 

Stone would be weak to water. The phrase "sink like a rock" comes to mind.

 

 

Of course, I should specify that I doubt that G1 uses pokemon or video game logic when it comes to this. I see the Toa's powers being less efficient in an opposite area, not -10 to Kopaka every turn.

[Regitnui]

I seem to recall the turaga putting their spare Kanohi in inconvenient places precisely to help the Toa adapt; Gali had to climb trees and Lewa dive into an underwater cave, for example. Not opposite environments, but unfamiliar ones. This would certainly have had a hand in making sure that their discomfort was minimized below story level.

[emily]

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

Pohatu's weakness was "can't swim" and Lewa's 'weakness' was "too many jokes", so they weren't all strictly tied to elements (see Onua and vision)

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

Pohatu's weakness was "can't swim" and Lewa's 'weakness' was "too many jokes", so they weren't all strictly tied to elements (see Onua and vision)

 

 

"can't swim" feels like an obviously elemental weakness to me, given Hewkii suffered from it too, and it's failry tied, at least symbolically, to "sinking like a stone" o:

[Naota Takizawa]

 

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

 

Pohatu's weakness was "can't swim" and Lewa's 'weakness' was "too many jokes", so they weren't all strictly tied to elements (see Onua and vision)

Lewa never had a weakness, it was just bad luck that got him possessed by Makuta, Krana or Trem Krom.

[Regitnui]

 

 

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

 

Pohatu's weakness was "can't swim" and Lewa's 'weakness' was "too many jokes", so they weren't all strictly tied to elements (see Onua and vision)

Lewa never had a weakness, it was just bad luck that got him possessed by Makuta, Krana or Trem Krom.

Poor charisma/force of personality. He got possessed/mentally dominated easily.

[abstractAgamid]

Lewa is less agile at ground-level, and I think Pohatu can't swim.

[Ta-metru_defender]

While on the topic of weaknesses; plastic melts at around 170ºC, so I think that's a given for all of 'em.

[Petewa]

Gali is the Toa of Water; areas such as deserts weaken her

Tahu is the Toa of Fire; water weakens him

Kopaka is the Toa of Ice; fire weakens him

Onua has very sensitive vision; bright light can damage his eyes

The disc doesn't specify anything about Lewa or Pohatu

All Po-Matoran have a fear of water, and Lewa simply gets the short end of life.

[fishers64]

Poor charisma/force of personality. He got possessed/mentally dominated easily.

More like he was too carefree and reckless, which got him into more mental domination situations. If Tahu ended up with a Krana or Infected mask, he'd be just as bad - remember the Rahkshi poison in MoL?

[Alyska]

What if it's not so much exposure to the opposite, but being away from their own element that causes them grief? I also think that there's a psychological factor in play here, as well as what the Toa is used to and experienced with.

 

It's established that Lewa dislikes being underground. There's no space to fly, probably not as much fresh air to breathe, he has to walk or crawl everywhere and he might be mildly claustrophobic. He also hates being in water, which is also related to a lack of air.

 

Gali dislikes the desert because of the lack of moisture- she's okay in a hot, humid jungle, but the dry heat would be hard on her.

 

Onua probably had some trouble in Karda Nui due to being away from solid ground, and the lack of shade definitely affected his vision. He was more at home down in the swamp, though.

 

Tahu would dislike being away from a heat source- he could certainly keep himself warm in Ko-Koro, but at the cost of some of his own energy. Water doesn't physically weaken Toa of Fire as far as I can tell, but it would just be harder for them to use their power while submerged (see the Jaller example- Jaller wasn't physically suffering in Mahri Nui, and having his power dampened was just an annoyance for him). Fire guys don't seem to complain about water nearly as much as Air and Stone types.

 

Kopaka does seem to have a physical weakness to heat- he actually faints from it in one of the Hapka books, but it's possible that resistance could be built up with repeated exposure.

 

Pohatu and other Stone types have heavy bodies not built for swimming. It's not impossible for them to learn, though, and the psychological aspect of being away from solid rock/ground might be just as much a factor in their water weakness as the physical limitations. 

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

Here's how I would see it: they're not actually physically weakened or hurt by other Elements, they just make them uncomfortable and it becomes harder to use their powers.

 

If Tahu were underwater, his fire would probably not be as powerful as it is in a dry environment.

 

If it's hot, Kopaka might have trouble keeping his ice from melting (this actually occurred in the first BIONICLE Chronicles book, he made a canoe out of ice to fetch a mask in the middle of a lava lake, and had to use the Kakama to row really, really fast).

 

If it's dry, Gali would have no problem creating water, but if she would have little success manipulating already existing moisture (she did do this once in Karzahni, however).

 

And Pohatu can't swim. The thing about Onua having sensitive eyes, however, is true to some extent, I believe.

 

If you ask me, their biggest weakness was lack of unity. There wasn't a comic titled "Divided We Fall" for nothing.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[Naota Takizawa]

If it's hot, Kopaka might have trouble keeping his ice from melting (this actually occurred in the first BIONICLE Chronicles book, he made a canoe out of ice to fetch a mask in the middle of a lava lake, and had to use the Kakama to row really, really fast).

Kopaka used a Pakari to increase his own strength so he could quickly row out of the lava, not a Kakama.

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

 

The thing about Onua having sensitive eyes, however, is true to some extent, I believe.

Its very true, the human eyesight adapts to pitch black darkness when going to sleep. Then morning comes around and depending on how dark your room is compared how bright it is outside, but after 8 hours of sleep your eyes still only remember the darkness and sudden shift in muscle memory will feel like a slight pinch after hours of sleeping.

 

Now for underground dwellers who dwell in dark places, like deep in the onu-metru archives or onu koro's village cavern and vast tunnels where most rely on candles, and or lightstones to guide them around. These inhbitants never come outside for days or weeks and it will feel painful to adapt to the adaption your vision to sunlight which is a lot stronger than the lights sources you're used to underground.

Edited January 17, 2016 by necross hordika

[MrSciFiGuy]

I remember that, but it was rarely used. I think it as a common sense type of thing, but was dropped from story purposes as the years went on.

[Aanchir]

What frustrated me about a lot of these weaknesses is how rarely they came up as an issue for the Toa. Now, obviously, Lewa ended up going underground a lot of times (because all the Toa did; all their biggest battles in the first three years took place underground), but it didn't seem to affect him much more negatively than most of the others. Pohatu feared water and couldn't swim, but I don't remember him ever actually needing to go in the water. Gali was supposedly weaker in deserts, but that didn't stop her from creating a flood in the Tiro Canyon to take out a bunch of Tahnok in one of the comics.

 

Kopaka did have to hunt for a mask near a lava lagoon at one point in the first Bionicle Chronicles book, and Lewa had to fetch a mask from underwater in the second comic. But I imagine those particular quests would have been a hindrance to anybody who didn't have a fire Toa's natural heat resistance or a water Toa's natural swimming ability. In fact, Kopaka's ability to cool his surroundings, while weakened in that sweltering environment, probably made that particular quest EASIER than it would have been for a Toa like Pohatu or Onua who lacked that ability.

 

I don't want to get too off topic or make this a "G1 vs. G2" debate, but I'm happy with how the G2 Toa's weaknesses are more "human". For instance, Pohatu is afraid of the dark rather than afraid of water. These weaknesses haven't all come up in the story, but it seems like it's a lot easier for the writers to really utilize them since they're not so situational — weaknesses like forgetfulness, a poor sense of direction, clumsiness, or exhaustion can be a hindrance anywhere, not just in specific settings.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

 

If it's hot, Kopaka might have trouble keeping his ice from melting (this actually occurred in the first BIONICLE Chronicles book, he made a canoe out of ice to fetch a mask in the middle of a lava lake, and had to use the Kakama to row really, really fast).

Kopaka used a Pakari to increase his own strength so he could quickly row out of the lava, not a Kakama.

 

 

My mistake. It would have made more sense to use the Kakama, but if he didn't, it's probably because he didn't have one yet.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese