RPG Forum Contest 23 Reviews

[Evex_Wolfwing]

Two more questions for Lloyd. First, in the rules you say that the Shadow Element is banned, but nothing about Light. Are we allowed to use Light, or was that just forgotten.Second, does this take place before or after the Great Cataclysm?

[Lara White]

You may use light, and this happens just prior to what would have been the Destiny War, so yes, post-Great Cataclysm.

[Parazan]

(What is a Skhalag? What do they look like?)

A mix between Mertu-Nui Matoran,Toa Nuva,and Skakdi.

(So... traditional and clichéd fire area. Remove hyphens between quick, to and anger. Wait, there are dragons?)

Of course there are Dragons,but Shama-Nui is the last place in the Matoran Universe where Dragons still exist.

(-30 Celsius? Add degrees. Makes better sense. Okay, ice dragons are calm and shy. Does not understand)

They are calm,they never get angry. Oh,they're shy because they don't like Matoran that much.

(So stone dragons are sports fans?)

No,but Earth Dragons(particularly Males) like to fight.

(And it seems as if all Earth Dragons are old. Even when they are born.)

Because all Earth Dragons go into a deep hibernation of 1,000 years after they are born.

(So what if there is a not so skilled water dragon?)

It'll drown,LOL.

(So ... how do the Makuta factor in? And what is a Poth?)

The Makuta factor in because simply of Xergan,who has a major role in the story,but other Makuta have a role in the story. Also,a Poth is like a Three-toed Sloth,except that Poths are 15 feet tall.

(Wouldn't dragons be Rahi? And dang, that means I can't bring back Zaphos for this one. )

Actually,Dragons have existed long before Rahi,and plus,Dragons know how to speak.

Which ones exactly do you consider 'super powerful'? Other than the Legendary Masks. The Olmak? The Komau?

Alright,I can see that the Olmak is a powerful mask,but the Komau would still be allowed as it wasn't too much of powerful.

(Good ruler? Has the respect of the Matoran? Then why exactly has she done nothing while the Skhalag invade her island?)

Because she believes that if she attacks the Skhalag,it will put the Matoran in danger,plus,no open war has been started yet.

sapient Rahi?

Of course,as long as it is intelligent and knows how to speak.-CDP Edited March 11, 2012 by cooldynamyteproductions

[Lara White]

Tip: If someone has that many questions, you'll likely need to edit your RPG to answer them.

[Kal the Guardian]

Ok, so while I normally would start doing full reviews by now, it appears actually running an RPG still continues to take up more time than I thought. But I do have one question for Lloyd:

[Lara White]

if you are referring to the Onu-Metru Archives, they have been overrun as well.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Here is my second-page review post!

My Review for Day RunIt's going to win anyways, and I've read it too many times to do it again. :|

My Review of Realm of DarknessI've read this RPG before. It was a long time ago though. And I don't know if I reviewed it or not. Probably not. But what does it matter. All the yellow is blinding me. And now it's blinding you. So hah.

My Review of Shama-Nui: The Fight for FreedomOkay, first off - if you want to link a URL to a word, highlight it, press the button that says 'Link' (it's a chain with a green dot that has a + on it). Then put the URL there. Because this -BIGGER PICTURELooks better than this -Bigger picture: http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostreamDragons? I shall blast them with the voice.I added Dragons to one of my RPGs a few years back. It lost. I blame the Dragons. But it probably wasn't the Dragons. It really only mentioned them a few times. Or not at all. I don't know. Really, nobody likes reading my RPGs. They're always too repetitive. They're always really long. And repetitive.(Yes that was a joke.)Skhalag? What's that? A bollywog?What are you doing! You don't tell us the end of the RPG in the opening post!Why are you allowing Makuta as a species to play?Stabbed in 5th vertebrate? It's a giant gas cloud in a suit of armor. Makuta don't have vertebrate!Oh, joy. Leveling up and XP. That's not even detailed, to boot.A few other issues I'm too lazy to type. It needs fixing.But talk to Lloyd and TPTI. They're the smart ones.

My Review of City of the DeadOkay, a few typos. Well, more than a few. But I leave those to the others, I'm just reviewing the RPG.Wow wow wow - the Visorak horde disbanded. All but maybe a few stragglers and possibly a couple hundred base guarding members of the horde reached Metru-Nui during the 2005 story, and Vakama disbanded that group. And without the Heart of the Visorak, it's impossible to gather the horde together.What managed to kill four of the Turaga? Bad defenses apparently.The Vortixx wouldn't have a reason to flee Xia. They were weapon suppliers for the Brotherhood and Dark Hunters. Not to mention that they would be working for whoever could pay them more - and that would most certainly be the Brotherhood.Break in canon that Stelt wasn't conquered, but I'm starting to figure that this isn't running on canon - there's too many conflicts for it to be. And wise ruling of the Steltian king? These are people like Sidorak. They're the manipulative leaders of a criminal society.Exile is a better replacement for the death penalty? No, not really.Why are Zyglak with the Brotherhood? They hate everyone!No mental blocks allowed? But you didn't ban psionics - which grants a powerful mental block. Meh. Whatever you say. And how did you miss the Mask of Light and the Mask of Shadow, but not the Mask of Light and Shadow?'No more powerful than an NPC'. I think I'm the only one who goes by the 'Normal NPC < PC < Leader NPC' rule.Anyways, some problems, but a good enough RPG.

Now I've only got pinks and purples and invisible colors left...

My Review of TransformationAs I stated the first time this went up in the review topic, one of the ideas I tossed around was an all out Skakdi civil war and a battle against Spiriah, complete with prophecies foretelling it and stuff. But I disposed of the idea, and instead pursued others. This RPG is actually pretty close, but it's better because I did no work. So yeah, right off the bat, I think it's pretty cool.Nice intro, if a bit flavorless. Could use some better writing but that's about it.Keep a lid on things? How could you possibly think you could delay it?Nice maps and stuff.I don't have much time, so I'll cut off there and finish this later if I feel like it.

-Toa Levacius Zehvor Edited March 13, 2012 by Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Parugi]

Here is my second-page review post!

My Review for Day RunIt's going to win anyways, and I've read it too many times to do it again. :|

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

Wasn't last contest enough to prove otherwise? It was at its peak and it lost... X3Well, regardless, I'm thankful for your confidence in me.

[Kal the Guardian]

if you are referring to the Onu-Metru Archives, they have been overrun as well.

Yes, but with everything that was down there to begin with, I think there's a fighting chance to live there. At least in hiding. Even if your monsters invaded every place down there, there are still a few places left over to hide in. After all, you can level everything except the Bastion so no one can hide, but you can't destroy below without having it cave in on your head.But if the monstrousities really have killed everything in the Archives, then why haven't they just used the tunnels under the Bastion to flood it from underneath. Even if there aren't tunnels, they can make them. Or is there something stopping this? Forgive me if there is already a stated reason, I just read through the RPG once, very quickly.

[Padishah Mehmet II]

My Review of City of the DeadOkay, a few typos. Well, more than a few. But I leave those to the others, I'm just reviewing the RPG.Wow wow wow - the Visorak horde disbanded. All but maybe a few stragglers and possibly a couple hundred base guarding members of the horde reached Metru-Nui during the 2005 story, and Vakama disbanded that group. And without the Heart of the Visorak, it's impossible to gather the horde together.What managed to kill four of the Turaga? Bad defenses apparently.The Vortixx wouldn't have a reason to flee Xia. They were weapon suppliers for the Brotherhood and Dark Hunters. Not to mention that they would be working for whoever could pay them more - and that would most certainly be the Brotherhood.Break in canon that Stelt wasn't conquered, but I'm starting to figure that this isn't running on canon - there's too many conflicts for it to be. And wise ruling of the Steltian king? These are people like Sidorak. They're the manipulative leaders of a criminal society.Exile is a better replacement for the death penalty? No, not really.Why are Zyglak with the Brotherhood? They hate everyone!No mental blocks allowed? But you didn't ban psionics - which grants a powerful mental block. Meh. Whatever you say. And how did you miss the Mask of Light and the Mask of Shadow, but not the Mask of Light and Shadow?'No more powerful than an NPC'. I think I'm the only one who goes by the 'Normal NPC < PC < Leader NPC' rule.Anyways, some problems, but a good enough RPG.

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

Lev, some essential things I need to make clear as is my duty as the co-GM before Zar gets here.a ) the Xian reason for fleeing was explained. The Vortixx on Metru Nui are the losing side of a Xian civil war.b ) "These are people like Sidorak"? Are you serious? Your argument basically amounts to "because Hitler was a murdering madman, all Germans are evil."otherwise, thanks for the review.-Dovydas Edited March 13, 2012 by Dovydas of Gulet

[Toa Kovolta]

Review of "The Horde out of Limbo" by LloydFirst off, love the banner, even if it is just two images off of Google. It fits very well with the theme of the rpg, as does the quote underneath.The description is very well written and really hooks the reader in. Metru Nui is in quite the predicament. Though I do have one question, is it not possible to just sneak around in the shadows of the city or are there just too many of the monsters?Other than that, there's not much else to say that hasn't already been said. I do, however, agree with ToD about putting Ravel's Profile in the NPC section. Having it where is can lead to confusion as to whether it actually is a character that will appear in the rp or whether it's just something you whipped to as an example.All in all, I like it, even if the theme might not be my favourite. It's a story that really has a lot of places it can go, and that's a good thing for an rp to have.Good luck in the contest!Oh and I also noticed you still haven't corrected that shelding error.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

@ Dovya )The only mention of a civil war in the RPG proper, or any reason whatsoever why the Vortixx would flee, is mentioned in part of a sentence -

and Xia, recovering from a civil war, declared strict neutrality.

That is until it goes further down, and read the History section of the NPCs (which I only found by sticking 'Vortixx' in Ctrl+F). Which why on earth would you put something like that in the History for the NPCs? You don't make a profile that big and expect it to be read by everyone.Not that it's a problem for you, since you're credited for helping design the ruling class of New Xia. :PBut yeah, you should have mentioned that somewhere else.b )

b ) "These are people like Sidorak"? Are you serious? Your argument basically amounts to "because Hitler was a murdering madman, all Germans are evil."

Considering this is what is said of Stelt and its species -

Stelt was created by the Great Beings during the construction of the Matoran Universe. It has since become a major port and gained a reputation as a hot spot of criminal activity and depravity.The entire island is constantly on the edge of anarchy and total collapse due to the constant infighting of Sidorak's species. Voporak used to be a clan leader here, until Sidorak betrayed him to the Brotherhood of Makuta.

"There are some cultures that thrive on war. One such was the island home of Sidorak and Krekka, a place where battle was a constant fact of life."

The island is a desolate place, mostly due to the ruling species envy; whenever one of them manages to build any kind of structure, his neighbors grow jealous and unite to tear it down. The only stable structures are coliseums which the inhabitants use for entertainment fights, and relatively unimportant dwellings, such as a trader's house or an inn.

Not to mention a comment in first paragraph of Sidoraks page.But yes, I believe my Steltian problems are well placed. And yes, there may be 'good' Steltians, but I'd reckon anyone not willing to bribe, blackmail, or openly threaten someone will have difficulty holding any kind of power amongst that lot. And those that are 'good' would be better off not mingling with their species, or at least trying to stick together.EDIT: http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png is my least favorite emoticon. For obvious reasons.-Toa Levacius Zehvor Edited March 13, 2012 by Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Lara White]

if you are referring to the Onu-Metru Archives, they have been overrun as well.

Yes, but with everything that was down there to begin with, I think there's a fighting chance to live there. At least in hiding. Even if your monsters invaded every place down there, there are still a few places left over to hide in. After all, you can level everything except the Bastion so no one can hide, but you can't destroy below without having it cave in on your head.But if the monstrousities really have killed everything in the Archives, then why haven't they just used the tunnels under the Bastion to flood it from underneath. Even if there aren't tunnels, they can make them. Or is there something stopping this? Forgive me if there is already a stated reason, I just read through the RPG once, very quickly.

Well, about flooding, water has their peculiar tendency to seek the lowest point in any given area, which isn't very good for driving the Matoran out of the Bastion, which is the tallest structure on Metru Nui. Besides, I'm sure that the Earth Toa and Stone Toa and Metal Toa sealed off those tunnels to ensure nothing got in.As for hiding in the archives, I'm not quite sure you understand the sheer quantity of hideous creatures that have swarmed Metru Nui. Pretty much all the Metrus are occupied day and night. Since the Archives is Onu-Metru...

Review of "The Horde out of Limbo" by LloydFirst off, love the banner, even if it is just two images off of Google. It fits very well with the theme of the rpg, as does the quote underneath.The description is very well written and really hooks the reader in. Metru Nui is in quite the predicament. Though I do have one question, is it not possible to just sneak around in the shadows of the city or are there just too many of the monsters?

See my comments above--there are just faaaaar too many of them to hide from. It'd be like trying to hide from the Hordes of Ghenghis Khan. Theoretically possible but in practice? Not so much.

Other than that, there's not much else to say that hasn't already been said. I do, however, agree with ToD about putting Ravel's Profile in the NPC section. Having it where is can lead to confusion as to whether it actually is a character that will appear in the rp or whether it's just something you whipped to as an example.

My general rule of thumb which I haven't had problems with before is to put plot-important NPCs in that section, and put my own personal character (who is not plot-important, typically) in the profiles section as an example of what a profile should look like. If said Toa was not going to appear, I would just have one standard example I used in all my RPGs.

All in all, I like it, even if the theme might not be my favourite. It's a story that really has a lot of places it can go, and that's a good thing for an rp to have.Good luck in the contest!Oh and I also noticed you still haven't corrected that shelding error.

What? I was sure I fixed that.

[Padishah Mehmet II]

@ Dovya )The only mention of a civil war in the RPG proper, or any reason whatsoever why the Vortixx would flee, is mentioned in part of a sentence -

and Xia, recovering from a civil war, declared strict neutrality.

That is until it goes further down, and read the History section of the NPCs (which I only found by sticking 'Vortixx' in Ctrl+F). Which why on earth would you put something like that in the History for the NPCs? You don't make a profile that big and expect it to be read by everyone.Not that it's a problem for you, since you're credited for helping design the ruling class of New Xia. :PBut yeah, you should have mentioned that somewhere else.b )

b ) "These are people like Sidorak"? Are you serious? Your argument basically amounts to "because Hitler was a murdering madman, all Germans are evil."

Considering this is what is said of Stelt and its species -

Stelt was created by the Great Beings during the construction of the Matoran Universe. It has since become a major port and gained a reputation as a hot spot of criminal activity and depravity.The entire island is constantly on the edge of anarchy and total collapse due to the constant infighting of Sidorak's species. Voporak used to be a clan leader here, until Sidorak betrayed him to the Brotherhood of Makuta.

"There are some cultures that thrive on war. One such was the island home of Sidorak and Krekka, a place where battle was a constant fact of life."

The island is a desolate place, mostly due to the ruling species envy; whenever one of them manages to build any kind of structure, his neighbors grow jealous and unite to tear it down. The only stable structures are coliseums which the inhabitants use for entertainment fights, and relatively unimportant dwellings, such as a trader's house or an inn.

Not to mention a comment in first paragraph of Sidoraks page.But yes, I believe my Steltian problems are well placed. And yes, there may be 'good' Steltians, but I'd reckon anyone not willing to bribe, blackmail, or openly threaten someone will have difficulty holding any kind of power amongst that lot. And those that are 'good' would be better off not mingling with their species, or at least trying to stick together.EDIT: http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png is my least favorite emoticon. For obvious reasons.-Toa Levacius Zehvor

a ) Zar's the one making the post. Initially, he had mentioned that only three guilds were deported from Xia: I'm not sure where that sentence went.b ) ... and how is war, a caste system, and desolation incompatible with a generous and kind king to those who serve him? I dunno about you, but if the canon says a whole species can be generalized, then we say, "Screw the canon. It's a bad one." Again, there are no things good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Shakespeare.-Dovydas Edited March 13, 2012 by Dovydas of Gulet

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

@ Dovya )The only mention of a civil war in the RPG proper, or any reason whatsoever why the Vortixx would flee, is mentioned in part of a sentence -

and Xia, recovering from a civil war, declared strict neutrality.

That is until it goes further down, and read the History section of the NPCs (which I only found by sticking 'Vortixx' in Ctrl+F). Which why on earth would you put something like that in the History for the NPCs? You don't make a profile that big and expect it to be read by everyone.Not that it's a problem for you, since you're credited for helping design the ruling class of New Xia. :PBut yeah, you should have mentioned that somewhere else.b )

b ) "These are people like Sidorak"? Are you serious? Your argument basically amounts to "because Hitler was a murdering madman, all Germans are evil."

Considering this is what is said of Stelt and its species -

Stelt was created by the Great Beings during the construction of the Matoran Universe. It has since become a major port and gained a reputation as a hot spot of criminal activity and depravity.The entire island is constantly on the edge of anarchy and total collapse due to the constant infighting of Sidorak's species. Voporak used to be a clan leader here, until Sidorak betrayed him to the Brotherhood of Makuta.

"There are some cultures that thrive on war. One such was the island home of Sidorak and Krekka, a place where battle was a constant fact of life."

The island is a desolate place, mostly due to the ruling species envy; whenever one of them manages to build any kind of structure, his neighbors grow jealous and unite to tear it down. The only stable structures are coliseums which the inhabitants use for entertainment fights, and relatively unimportant dwellings, such as a trader's house or an inn.

Not to mention a comment in first paragraph of Sidoraks page.But yes, I believe my Steltian problems are well placed. And yes, there may be 'good' Steltians, but I'd reckon anyone not willing to bribe, blackmail, or openly threaten someone will have difficulty holding any kind of power amongst that lot. And those that are 'good' would be better off not mingling with their species, or at least trying to stick together.EDIT: http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png is my least favorite emoticon. For obvious reasons.-Toa Levacius Zehvor

a ) Zar's the one making the post. Initially, he had mentioned that only three guilds were deported from Xia: I'm not sure where that sentence went.b ) ... and how is war, a caste system, and desolation incompatible with a generous and kind king to those who serve him? I dunno about you, but if the canon says a whole species can be generalized, then we say, "Screw the canon. It's a bad one."-Dovydas

a ) Well it's not there now.b ) Because it doesn't have a king. It's a number of petty lords squabbling with each other over a few inches of useless ground. Why would they swear fealty to a single king? And even if they did, why would it be 'generous and kind' one? Ideally, you have a just ruler, but with an island populated by criminal entities, that's not how it works. Besides, everyone knows that politicians and rulers are evil.And frankly, I can see how it happened. If there were good Steltians at some point, they're gone now. They were either driven away from their home or killed by the majority - the bad ones. Since Bionicle characters don't reproduce like humans, it's just the same beings (with possibly a few additions, if Mata-Nui creates them) that have always been there. The same corrupt individuals. And they're not exactly numerous.-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Padishah Mehmet II]

a ) Obviously. Are we going to keep on making redundant Point A messages?b ) Because now they don't have enough land to squabble over? Let's imagine the Steltian system of squabbling petty lords remains in their refuge on Metru Nui. Yes. They'd squabble over about... 20 huts and a watchtower.Also, aren't you listening to what I'm saying at all? How do you know they're bad? Maybe it's you who's bad, and they're just pragmatic? Nobody considers himself bad. "Bad" is a term wholly applied by other people. Now no doubt, a culture of war may appear to the outside eye to be bad. Thing is, I'm seeing no reason to believe the outside eye is more true than biased against them. Maybe they're right, you're wrong, and I personally consider you wrong just for trying to split up a whole race into good people and bad people. The universe does not work that way. Everyone has good and bad traits. What you're doing is ignoring that the color gray exists, and calling it black.-Dovydas

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dovydas of Gulet

[Relapse]

Alright, alright, here we go, Levs. I've got a few blows to swing back.

b ) Because it doesn't have a king. It's a number of petty lords squabbling with each other over a few inches of useless ground. Why would they swear fealty to a single king? And even if they did, why would it be 'generous and kind' one? Ideally, you have a just ruler, but with an island populated by criminal entities, that's not how it works. Besides, everyone knows that politicians and rulers are evil.

Well, actually they do. Your point about not reading profiles has turned out to be remarkably true as you haven't even read that of the king. I would hardly call the lords petty (I have the power to do that) because they each control considerable military forces and have fortified villages of their own. Yes, in fact, they would stay loyal to their king as long as it is beneficial to them. However, it is getting edgy, and they're on the brink of civil war. Oh look! An even better reason to actually read the entire thing. And Levacious, as far as all politicians and rulers being evil: no, not everyone thinks so. Most of the time, that mindset is given to people called "conspiracy theorists". There have been great rulers. George Washington. King David. Abraham Lincoln. Quit generalizing.

And frankly, I can see how it happened. If there were good Steltians at some point, they're gone now. They were either driven away from their home or killed by the majority - the bad ones. Since Bionicle characters don't reproduce like humans, it's just the same beings (with possibly a few additions, if Mata-Nui creates them) that have always been there. The same corrupt individuals. And they're not exactly numerous.

Why? Why do you assume they've all been whiped out? It's rather naive to think every last good person is dead. It's even more naive to think that all that's left are ruthless evildoers who want to slaughter everyone else. And why do you assume that the ones Mata-Nui made are automatically evil? Last time I checked, Mata-Nui was good, or at least balanced. I think personally that while Stelt is a place with good people, it's more of a grey area than anything. Edited March 13, 2012 by Shadow Guardian

[Kal the Guardian]

Well, about flooding, water has their peculiar tendency to seek the lowest point in any given area, which isn't very good for driving the Matoran out of the Bastion, which is the tallest structure on Metru Nui. Besides, I'm sure that the Earth Toa and Stone Toa and Metal Toa sealed off those tunnels to ensure nothing got in.As for hiding in the archives, I'm not quite sure you understand the sheer quantity of hideous creatures that have swarmed Metru Nui. Pretty much all the Metrus are occupied day and night. Since the Archives is Onu-Metru...

When I said flooding, I meant the sheer numbers of monsters pushing themselves up out of the ground to make it seem as if it were a flood. I didn't mean water. If there are as many as you say there are, then the ground of the bastion needs to probably have more thickness or a greater density than the walls in order to keep out tunnelers.Because while you can shoot the creatures assaulting the walls and kill/force them back and take the allotted time to repair the wall if damage was done, the same can't be said for attacks from below. If they tunnel up, you can only drive them back and seal up the tunnel, there is no way to attack them as they are tunneling. Well, I guess in this universe there is, considering elemental powers. But with the sure size of their numbers, all pushing up from below, I don't see how the Bastion has stood for long as it has.What has happened to the dangerous beasts in the Archives? Were they all killed? Surely a few have unique enough features to allow them to survive and perchance fight back. (This is me (right here) trying to figure out any potential weaknesses)

[Grantaire]

Wow wow wow - the Visorak horde disbanded. All but maybe a few stragglers and possibly a couple hundred base guarding members of the horde reached Metru-Nui during the 2005 story, and Vakama disbanded that group. And without the Heart of the Visorak, it's impossible to gather the horde together.

This is how I worked it out:1) Visorak are rational creatures, and therefore have both free will and intellect. With this, and their centuries of serving the brotherhood, would come a healthy fear of said brotherhood, and therefore they could be reformed manually, without the aid of the Heart.2) Of course, there would not be the massive horde hence 'a small horde of visorak'.

What managed to kill four of the Turaga? Bad defenses apparently.

Simple, visorak and brotherhood forces. Remember, they crashed straight in, with enough power to capture central Ga Metru in the space of a day or two. Four turaga die in the turmoil.

The Vortixx wouldn't have a reason to flee Xia. They were weapon suppliers for the Brotherhood and Dark Hunters. Not to mention that they would be working for whoever could pay them more - and that would most certainly be the Brotherhood.

Three guilds did, read Dov's profiles.

Break in canon that Stelt wasn't conquered, but I'm starting to figure that this isn't running on canon - there's too many conflicts for it to be. And wise ruling of the Steltian king? These are people like Sidorak. They're the manipulative leaders of a criminal society.

This whole thing is a break in the canon.Um, all steltian are rational beings with will and intellect, therefore all Steltians have the potency to become evil or good. Eyorak was a bit of an oddball, a just warlord. He controlled a fair amount of territory, and managed to win enough warlords to his side to become king.

Exile is a better replacement for the death penalty? No, not really.

It is the death penalty. You die very quickly out there.

Why are Zyglak with the Brotherhood? They hate everyone!

Zyglak are rational beings with will and intellect, therefore a few could work for the brotherhood.

No mental blocks allowed? But you didn't ban psionics - which grants a powerful mental block. Meh. Whatever you say. And how did you miss the Mask of Light and the Mask of Shadow, but not the Mask of Light and Shadow?

That comes with the element, and is therefore quite permissible. Aside from that, as a separate thing, not only do I have philosophical qualms about it, but I deem it as a bit too much .masks of shadow and light will be allowed. Stupid of me. Forgot to mention that some kanohi, those, are allowed with limited of their original power. Think them being as powerful as the mask of gravity, and no more.

'No more powerful than an NPC'. I think I'm the only one who goes by the 'Normal NPC < PC < Leader NPC' rule.

A PC is an NPC controlled by a player, nothing else.

That is until it goes further down, and read the History section of the NPCs (which I only found by sticking 'Vortixx' in Ctrl+F). Which why on earth would you put something like that in the History for the NPCs? You don't make a profile that big and expect it to be read by everyone.Not that it's a problem for you, since you're credited for helping design the ruling class of New Xia. But yeah, you should have mentioned that somewhere else.

It was a minor plot point, and I gave it as much time as I did Stelt.

b ) Because it doesn't have a king. It's a number of petty lords squabbling with each other over a few inches of useless ground. Why would they swear fealty to a single king? And even if they did, why would it be 'generous and kind' one? Ideally, you have a just ruler, but with an island populated by criminal entities, that's not how it works. Besides, everyone knows that politicians and rulers are evil.

Simple, when they settled down on Metru Nui, their entire lifestyle was out of sync, and Eyorak and others got enough support among the warlords to have them settle for a monarchy, as long as the warlords would have a nice amount of power.

That is until it goes further down, and read the History section of the NPCs (which I only found by sticking 'Vortixx' in Ctrl+F). Which why on earth would you put something like that in the History for the NPCs? You don't make a profile that big and expect it to be read by everyone.

That big?? Those profiles are actually much shorter than a standard profile. Edited March 13, 2012 by Zarayna: The Quiet Light

[Lara White]

Well, about flooding, water has their peculiar tendency to seek the lowest point in any given area, which isn't very good for driving the Matoran out of the Bastion, which is the tallest structure on Metru Nui. Besides, I'm sure that the Earth Toa and Stone Toa and Metal Toa sealed off those tunnels to ensure nothing got in.As for hiding in the archives, I'm not quite sure you understand the sheer quantity of hideous creatures that have swarmed Metru Nui. Pretty much all the Metrus are occupied day and night. Since the Archives is Onu-Metru...

When I said flooding, I meant the sheer numbers of monsters pushing themselves up out of the ground to make it seem as if it were a flood. I didn't mean water. If there are as many as you say there are, then the ground of the bastion needs to probably have more thickness or a greater density than the walls in order to keep out tunnelers.

That's something they've probably accounted for.

Because while you can shoot the creatures assaulting the walls and kill/force them back and take the allotted time to repair the wall if damage was done, the same can't be said for attacks from below. If they tunnel up, you can only drive them back and seal up the tunnel, there is no way to attack them as they are tunneling. Well, I guess in this universe there is, considering elemental powers.

And the argument undermines itself, pun only partially intended.

But with the sure size of their numbers, all pushing up from below, I don't see how the Bastion has stood for long as it has.

A lot of dead bodies in the way.

What has happened to the dangerous beasts in the Archives? Were they all killed? Surely a few have unique enough features to allow them to survive and perchance fight back. (This is me (right here) trying to figure out any potential weaknesses)

They're all dead. You'd be hard-pressed to find a group of Outer Hordelings who are all alike, and even Krahka isn't undefeatable, especially when just looking at your enemy is dangerous.I understand your attempt to find weaknesses, that's what I do myself, both to my stuff and other people's games.

[Kal the Guardian]

Welp, in that case, I must say that I find this RPG of yours extremely compelling to play. It is a work of art. And keep in mind that this is coming from a person who, for the most part, didn't really have any interest in your other RPGs.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Having multiple people saying the same thing doesn't make your opinion any more right.No quotes, just responses.@ Dovya ) Yesb ) I'm stating Word of Greg, and whether or not you choose to go with it is your own choice. And as per your statement, I would go so far as to say that there are probably more neutral, or 'grey', inhabitants on Stelt then evil ones. What I'm stating is that to assume that a species where 'good' is the minority would have a 'good' leader is ridiculous.@ Shadow Guardianb1 ) Ever heard of a joke? I make lawyer and politician ones all of the time.And the thing you're not understanding is that the king would hold no power. A king only holds power because they have beings willing to follow them. Going off of what is written in the canon, it's a race of beings who all want power of their own. In a species whose neighbors only help each other in destroying the new Porsche (that is to say, stone brick) of their neighbor, the only reason anyone would swear fealty to a king is if it benefited them. Which means either the king has a stronger combined army than his vassals (who wouldn't turn on him, because of [X]), vast amounts of wealth, or a MacGuffin.When it comes right down to it, all I want is for one of you to say that Eyorak has an ace up his sleeve. A tangible one.b2 ) It's populated by warmonger savages whose favored sport is tossing slaves in the arena and letting them butcher each other. I personally have a low view of anyone who forces other beings to fight against their will. As per the good thing, not all would be dead. However, there would be many exploited ones, and most would try to leave the island if given the chance, or at least form up and defend their own.You say you view them as good people in a grey moral area, butMata-Nui is fallible. He created the prime species, and appointed the Barraki to head them. See how that worked out? The Makuta were his greatest creation. Even their 'good' leader, Miserix, was Lawful Neutral at best, Lawful Evil at worst. So that's hardly an argument saying that Mata-Nui wouldn't make evil beings.@ ZaranyaI did make one error - the Heart summons them, it doesn't control them. So I concede Tridax could have gathered the force with minimal difficulty.As I said, bad defenses. They could have done better in preparing for a siege.Plot related information doesn't go in profiles. That's why you have other sections.All RPGs are, but it could have better stated outright that there were changes.Death penalty is cleaner and results in fewer enemies.A rational species, yes. But what would there be to gain going with the Brotherhood? They don't have the needs of other species. They have no reason to fear the Brotherhood.What qualms, pray tell? Constant training can tone the human body to resist pain (see - monks sitting on needles). With tens of thousands of years and constant mental training, perhaps with the aid of a psionics user, I see no reason why a mental block couldn't be done.Will be allowed? They're unique masks. Typo? And a mask is only as powerful as its player makes it. The Kakama can be made mask of auto-dodging easily; the Sanok of auto-hitting. The Hau, the archetypical mask, can become extremely powerful. When it comes right down to it, that is, once more, a terrible explanation.I disagree, but I won't press it further.Apparently not as minor as you thought.Finally, about profile size -

Name: Gender: Species: Faction:Kanohi: Element: Appearance: Powers:Abilities:Weapons:Other Equipment:Personality:History:(Optional) Notes:

Username:Name:Gender:Species:Affiliation:Powers:Equipment:Appearance:Personality: [Optional]Biography:

That's 14 to 10. I haven't seen Username used for a long time, so I'd probably cut it out in my next RPG. Gender and species can also be combined. Thus, a 'standard' profile, compressed down, is only 8 sections.Anywas, that's it for now.-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Lara White]

Kirse: City of the Great Beings by ZomaYour first sentence is what I have wanted to see in an RPG for a very, very, very long time. Already you have me liking it. I'm not going to go in-depth because I like pretty much everything about your RPG, but I have one complaint: there are too many factions. i generally find that three is a good number to give players variety, two if you want to keep the story streamlined. You went a bit overboard.Other than that, you've just earned my third preferred spot. Congrats.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Lloyd: the White Wolf

[Relapse]

Having multiple people saying the same thing doesn't make your opinion any more right.

Neither does saying it over again because you can't think of a better argument.

b1 ) Ever heard of a joke? I make lawyer and politician ones all of the time.And the thing you're not understanding is that the king would hold no power. A king only holds power because they have beings willing to follow them. Going off of what is written in the canon, it's a race of beings who all want power of their own. In a species whose neighbors only help each other in destroying the new Porsche (that is to say, stone brick) of their neighbor, the only reason anyone would swear fealty to a king is if it benefited them. Which means either the king has a stronger combined army than his vassals (who wouldn't turn on him, because of [X]), vast amounts of wealth, or a MacGuffin.When it comes right down to it, all I want is for one of you to say that Eyorak has an ace up his sleeve. A tangible one.

This is a review topic. Not a Levacious-attempts-to-be-funny topic. Please remember that.He conquered everyone else. Is that not tangible enough for you? He did it once, and they know he can do it again. There you go.

b2 ) It's populated by warmonger savages whose favored sport is tossing slaves in the arena and letting them butcher each other. I personally have a low view of anyone who forces other beings to fight against their will. As per the good thing, not all would be dead. However, there would be many exploited ones, and most would try to leave the island if given the chance, or at least form up and defend their own.You say you view them as good people in a grey moral area, butMata-Nui is fallible. He created the prime species, and appointed the Barraki to head them. See how that worked out? The Makuta were his greatest creation. Even their 'good' leader, Miserix, was Lawful Neutral at best, Lawful Evil at worst. So that's hardly an argument saying that Mata-Nui wouldn't make evil beings.

What I think you're missing here is that we aren't going by canon. We aren't sticking straight to what Greg wrote. We're branching out. Our Steltians aren't savages. This is an entirely different story. Additionally, I said that he wouldn't create only evil beings. Like you said, he created both.

[Lara White]

It's perfectly acceptable to make jokes. if this was totally-serious-now topic reviews could get pretty tedious, both to write and to read.

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

Hordes out of LimboQuick question, but if the Elder Leviathans are so big an unstoppable and there are already two in Metru Nui why hasn't the Horde won? You make it sound like they could easily crush even an army of Colossi, so whats stopping them just toppling the Bastion by merely walking/scuttling/slithering into it? They're big enough to just barge through anything in their path, will probably drive any would-be defenders insane if they so much as get close, and have already done much the same to the rest of the MU so why show restraint in this one case?And if there is something stopping the Elder Leviathans what's stopping the Adb Al-Azrad? Whatever holds backs the ELs doesn't work on them, why don't they just possess everyone in the Bastion? After conquering the rest of the universe there's bound to be enough of them and few enough of the survivors, surely?Is it possible to venture Outside for reconnaissance ? Or do we just get insta-stomped by the GM if we try? What if we have a Volitak or Huna? Or hey, a Kadin, assuming that, like in the books, the ones that can fly aren't very good at it?Hmm, the mechanic about Abd Al-Azrad is a little unclear to me. If I understand it right, we nominate one of our characters to be possessed, you create a shortlist from those nominations then pick a chosen few to be actually possessed...umm, why can't we just decide to have a player with the hordes? If we want to play with that faction why stop us? Or have I misunderstood and we nominate someone else's character that we want to possess?This RPG just seems a bit bland really. Alright, I've never seen a siege RPG use Elder Things and Deep Ones before, but you don't really do anything with this. They're just zombies with a different skin (a very tentacley skin). You could swap the Leviathans out for Resident Evil-style mutant undead and there'd be no difference. I can see how you've tried to make the players feel small and insignificant in Lovecraftian style, but you nullify this by giving them an enormous fortress and massive mecha that keep the monsters at bay. It makes the players feel like grim survivors rather than specks of dust and reduces the monsters to cannon fodder. And cannon fodder just isn't very scary

Edited March 13, 2012 by The Dreadful Flying Glove

[The Dark Chronicler]

Kirse: City of the Great Beings by ZomaYour first sentence is what I have wanted to see in an RPG for a very, very, very long time. Already you have me liking it. I'm not going to go in-depth because I like pretty much everything about your RPG, but I have one complaint: there are too many factions. i generally find that three is a good number to give players variety, two if you want to keep the story streamlined. You went a bit overboard.Other than that, you've just earned my third preferred spot. Congrats.

Puzzles were the main reason I wanted to make this RPG, to challenge the mind with more than just battle. I had noticed that there was a rather large lack of puzzle based RPG out here, which made me wonder how well one would do, or if people enjoyed the violence more than puzzles...So I thought giving a mind challenging RPG a try might be worth it just to see the reactions it gets and see if there are people out there who would like to play them. Glad to see that you like having something to challenge players without violence.Ah yes, the six factions are there for a reason. The reason is that they aren't all going to last for very long. And the leaders of each faction, at first under staff control, are not invincible. I wanted to start with diversity in choice for how to start... but by the end of the first month (Should the game be chosen), I expect at least one, if not more of the factions will have fallen. Most games have factions that are going to last the whole game, which is why I went with more for mine. By the time the game ends, there may only be one group left standing, I wanted to let the choices of the players have a major part in shaping the city's survival or destruction, and I hoped having factions not concrete could help do that.Thank you, I hope other people find it enjoyable too.

[Relapse]

But he was trying to use the joke as if it were part of his argument. It's nearly impossible to distinguish sarcasm on the internet.

[Lara White]

Hordes out of LimboQuick question, but if the Elder Leviathans are so big an unstoppable and there are already two in Metru Nui why hasn't the Horde won? You make it sound like they could easily crush even an army of Colossi, so whats stopping them just toppling the Bastion by merely walking/scuttling/slithering into it? They're big enough to just barge through anything in their path, will probably drive any would-be defenders insane if they so much as get close, and have already done much the same to the rest of the MU so why show restraint in this one case?

Why do the job themselves when it's only a matter of time before their little cousins do it? They're lazy bums who sleep a lot.

And if there is something stopping the Elder Leviathans what's stopping the Adb Al-Azrad? Whatever holds backs the ELs doesn't work on them, why don't they just possess everyone in the Bastion? After conquering the rest of the universe there's bound to be enough of them and few enough of the survivors, surely?

Not really, they're rather rare. I'd guesstimate maybe less than one per island.

Is it possible to venture Outside for reconnaissance ? Or do we just get insta-stomped by the GM if we try? What if we have a Volitak or Huna? Or hey, a Kadin, assuming that, like in the books, the ones that can fly aren't very good at it?

Theoretically you could. However, being the only living thing outside the walls that isn't in the Outer Horde could make you a target. Maybe. Possibly.

Hmm, the mechanic about Abd Al-Azrad is a little unclear to me. If I understand it right, we nominate one of our characters to be possessed, you create a shortlist from those nominations then pick a chosen few to be actually possessed...umm, why can't we just decide to have a player with the hordes? If we want to play with that faction why stop us? Or have I misunderstood and we nominate someone else's character that we want to possess?

Because the spy-hunting mechanic wouldn't work as well if the players knew who they had to hunt. This way, it maintains privacy of the players who want to try that, and the reason for the shortlist is so that I have a reserve in case all of them die. I need to keep a maximum ratio of spies-to-defenders or else you'll have ten spies to every five defenders, and that wouldn't be any fun.

This RPG just seems a bit bland really. Alright, I've never seen a siege RPG use Elder Things and Deep Ones before, but you don't really do anything with this. They're just zombies with a different skin (a very tentacley skin). You could swap the Leviathans out for Resident Evil-style mutant undead and there'd be no difference. I can see how you've tried to make the players feel small and insignificant in Lovecraftian style, but you nullify this by giving them an enormous fortress and massive mecha that keep the monsters at bay. It makes the players feel like grim survivors rather than specks of dust and reduces the monsters to cannon fodder. And cannon fodder just isn't very scary

Well, you clearly haven't paid much attention--zombies don't drive you mad when you fight them. Lovecraftian beasties do. I let the players fight back because it gives them an element of hope, and because if it was just a rofl-curbstomp then it wouldn't be any fun for them. The RPG is quite clear that the default ending to this is "you lose" and the challenge to the players is "can you win against nigh-impossible odds?" That's something I've never seen done before. The way I benefit from this is seeing how players respond to the sacro-sanctity of their PCs' lives being violated. This game is in now way shape or form bland. Please don't think I'm angry at you for this review, I'm merely refuting your points one by one and I might get a tad annoyed when I'm accused of untrue things.I'm beginning to think, between your response to this, and your response to Dulce, that you just don't like experiments.

Kirse: City of the Great Beings by ZomaYour first sentence is what I have wanted to see in an RPG for a very, very, very long time. Already you have me liking it. I'm not going to go in-depth because I like pretty much everything about your RPG, but I have one complaint: there are too many factions. i generally find that three is a good number to give players variety, two if you want to keep the story streamlined. You went a bit overboard.Other than that, you've just earned my third preferred spot. Congrats.

Puzzles were the main reason I wanted to make this RPG, to challenge the mind with more than just battle. I had noticed that there was a rather large lack of puzzle based RPG out here, which made me wonder how well one would do, or if people enjoyed the violence more than puzzles...So I thought giving a mind challenging RPG a try might be worth it just to see the reactions it gets and see if there are people out there who would like to play them. Glad to see that you like having something to challenge players without violence.Ah yes, the six factions are there for a reason. The reason is that they aren't all going to last for very long. And the leaders of each faction, at first under staff control, are not invincible. I wanted to start with diversity in choice for how to start... but by the end of the first month (Should the game be chosen), I expect at least one, if not more of the factions will have fallen. Most games have factions that are going to last the whole game, which is why I went with more for mine. By the time the game ends, there may only be one group left standing, I wanted to let the choices of the players have a major part in shaping the city's survival or destruction, and I hoped having factions not concrete could help do that.Thank you, I hope other people find it enjoyable too.

Ah, that makes sense, then. Thanks for clarifying.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Neither does saying it over again because you can't think of a better argument.

A valid argument doesn't need modification.

This is a review topic. Not a Levacious-attempts-to-be-funny topic. Please remember that.

Everything is the Levacius-attempts-to-be-funny topic.

He conquered everyone else. Is that not tangible enough for you? He did it once, and they know he can do it again. There you go.

How? How did one individual, out of masses of them, managed to gather up enough wealth and power through supposedly valid means and conquer the entire island?

What I think you're missing here is that we aren't going by canon. We aren't sticking straight to what Greg wrote. We're branching out. Our Steltians aren't savages. This is an entirely different story. Additionally, I said that he wouldn't create only evil beings. Like you said, he created both.

Then state that clearly.

But he was trying to use the joke as if it were part of his argument. It's nearly impossible to distinguish sarcasm on the internet.

I stated it after I made my point, and even I'm not ignorant enough to say that all who hold political power are evil. Now lawyers, however...If you didn't consider that a joke, I cry a little inside.-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

Because the spy-hunting mechanic wouldn't work as well if the players knew who they had to hunt. This way, it maintains privacy of the players who want to try that

Surely if a character is going after someone they know as a player is a spy, a quick word in their ear about meta-gaming should suffice

Well, you clearly haven't paid much attention--zombies don't drive you mad when you fight them. Lovecraftian beasties do.

Well for a start you do say that most of the Horde don't cause insanity, just nausea. It appear to just be the Leviathans that properly drive you mad. And secondly, I can't see it ever being acted on. Players are going to ignore it most of the time, and when you do insist that a marbles-losingly unpleasant monster turns up its going to be an instant win akin to Rocks Fall Everyone Dies, therefore eliminating any possible gameplay/fun. If you really wanted to experiment I would suggest trying to implement some sort of "Insanity Factor". Otherwise the effect is either going to be ignored, or you telling everyone they just lost

I let the players fight back because it gives them an element of hope, and because if it was just a rofl-curbstomp then it wouldn't be any fun for them

This sort of undermines the standard Lovecraftian viewpoint, that we are rather puny and can't possibly hope to win, which is another reason why I felt the eldritch abominations could be replaced by zombies with no practical difference. You've just taken the appearance of Lovecraft beasties, not the theme

The RPG is quite clear that the default ending to this is "you lose" and the challenge to the players is "can you win against nigh-impossible odds?"

Well if the default is "You lose" clearly no, they can't

This game is in now way shape or form bland

Why not? What makes it new, original, inspirational? Give me time and I can link you to half a dozen RPGs that have used the same "You're trapped in a fortress surrounded by enemies" theme. I think most of them promised high probability of death outside those safe walls too, especially the ones by CJ. As I said before the only standout thing in Hordes is the presence of Lovecraftian monsters, and thats only aesthetic since the themes of Lovecraft aren't really carried across

I'm beginning to think, between your response to this, and your response to Dulce, that you just don't like experiments.

How very egotistical of you. It can't be that your ideas are flawed (even when people point out clearly how they are), it must just be that the people criticising them are wrong. A disappointing attitude Lloyd Edited March 14, 2012 by The Dreadful Flying Glove

[Relapse]

A valid argument doesn't need modification.

I totally agree. Try making one.

How? How did one individual, out of masses of them, managed to gather up enough wealth and power through supposedly valid means and conquer the entire island?

Well, considering he was more powerful than the rest at the beginning, it would've been relatively simple (not easy, but simple) to knock out the big tiers with a few thousand years under his belt. The rest he negotiated with to create peace. In fact, I personally control a portion of Stelt, one of the barons who wasn't destroyed. They aren't Skakdi. They don't thrive on war.

Then state that clearly.

I repeat:"Last time I checked, Mata-Nui was good, or at least balanced."

I stated it after I made my point, and even I'm not ignorant enough to say that all who hold political power are evil. Now lawyers, however...If you didn't consider that a joke, I cry a little inside.-Toa Levacius Zehvor

...I've Kahi's comics. We both know laywers are sent from the devil.That was sarcasm, if you couldn't tell. Edited March 14, 2012 by Shadow Guardian

[Lara White]

Because the spy-hunting mechanic wouldn't work as well if the players knew who they had to hunt. This way, it maintains privacy of the players who want to try that

Surely if a character is going after someone they know as a player is a spy, a quick word in their ear about meta-gaming should suffice

And surely if someone is flaming about religion, a quick word in the ear should suffice.

Well, you clearly haven't paid much attention--zombies don't drive you mad when you fight them. Lovecraftian beasties do.

Well for a start you do say that most of the Horde don't cause insanity, just nausea. It appear to just be the Leviathans that properly drive you mad. And secondly, I can't see it ever being acted on. Players are going to ignore it most of the time, and when you do insist that a marbles-losingly unpleasant monster turns up its going to be an instant win akin to Rocks Fall Everyone Dies, therefore eliminating any possible gameplay/fun. If you really wanted to experiment I would suggest trying to implement some sort of "Insanity Factor". Otherwise the effect is either going to be ignored, or you telling everyone they just lost

I do think that the RPers are quite capable of simulating that on their own, and while I'd like to implement an Insanity System (good idea, btw), that's a numbers system, which can take some time to develop and balance...oh, and you don't like those anyway, so yeah.

I let the players fight back because it gives them an element of hope, and because if it was just a rofl-curbstomp then it wouldn't be any fun for them

This sort of undermines the standard Lovecraftian viewpoint, that we are rather puny and can't possibly hope to win, which is another reason why I felt the eldritch abominations could be replaced by zombies with no practical difference. You've just taken the appearance of Lovecraft beasties, not the theme

Perhaps you don't quite understand the purpose of that hope. Do you know what a "Hope Spot" is?

The RPG is quite clear that the default ending to this is "you lose" and the challenge to the players is "can you win against nigh-impossible odds?"

Well if the default is "You lose" clearly no, they can't

That's a sad attitude to have. In Darkspace the players went against horrifying zombie mutants and a 1984-esque state to try and change the ending. Granted, they failed, but that's just another thing non-standard about this RPG. I'm perfectly willing to let the players get a bad ending. Heck, with something inspired by Lovecraft, I expect that to be the...wait a second.

This sort of undermines the standard Lovecraftian viewpoint, that we are rather puny and can't possibly hope to win, ...You've just taken the appearance of Lovecraft beasties, not the theme

And now you're complaining that you have no chance of winning (they do have a chance of winning, like the yacht that injured Cthulhu on Call of Cthulhu, but it's very slim)? Make up your mind!

This game is in now way shape or form bland

Why not? What makes it new, original, inspirational? Give me time and I can link you to half a dozen RPGs that have used the same "You're trapped in a fortress surrounded by enemies" theme. I think most of them promised high probability of death outside those safe walls too, especially the ones by CJ. As I said before the only standout thing in Hordes is the presence of Lovecraftian monsters, and thats only aesthetic since the themes of Lovecraft aren't really carried across

Here's some off the top of my head.

• [*]Willingness to let the players lose, instead of shoehorning in a happy ending.[*]Fighting things that hurt you (drive you insane) just by being there, making it a very difficult fight compared to normal mooks.[*]The Mafia-inspired Abd Al-Azred mechanic.

Tell me which one of those ideas is done to death?

I'm beginning to think, between your response to this, and your response to Dulce, that you just don't like experiments.

How very egotistical of you. It can't be that your ideas are flawed (even when people point out clearly how they are), it must just be that the people criticising them are wrong. A disappointing attitude Lloyd

Only disappointing when it's wrong. I do accept criticism that has a point to it, but I can't see any to yours. Edited March 14, 2012 by Lloyd: the White Wolf

[Grantaire]

Everything is the Levacius-attempts-to-be-funny topic.

As the opposite of what you say is true, your statement must be erroneous.

How? How did one individual, out of masses of them, managed to gather up enough wealth and power through supposedly valid means and conquer the entire island?

Read Stelt's faction description (updated it!). Eyorak was a senior warlord. When the Steltians landed in Le Metru, he garnished enough support to form a monarchial system and become the first king. It would have been impossible for Eyorak on his own to become king, If you notice, Stelt is formed of warlords who govern the rest of the people. Get enough warlords on yours side, and the rest will have two choices: a suicidal war, or joining you.

Then state that clearly.

It's rather self obvious that 99% of RPGs diverge from the canon.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

I totally agree. Try making one.

Harder than you think when Chuck Norris is beating up Chuck Norris.Though I do believe all of mine have been, unless you can somehow show me otherwise.

Well, considering he was more powerful than the rest at the beginning, it would've been relatively simple (not easy, but simple) to knock out the big tiers with a few thousand years under his belt. The rest he negotiated with to create peace. In fact, I personally control a portion of Stelt, one of the barons who wasn't destroyed. They aren't Skakdi. They don't thrive on war.

Its not so simple to take power; anyways, you're saying something different than the head-GM, so I have a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night you're just trying to explain something with a broken foundation.

I repeat:"Last time I checked, Mata-Nui was good, or at least balanced."

I was referring to the portion about 'our Steltians aren't savages'.Now, to the boss-man.

As the opposite of what you say is true, your statement must be erroneous.

I always lie. Have a paradox.

Read Stelt's faction description (updated it!). Eyorak was a senior warlord. When the Steltians landed in Le Metru, he garnished enough support to form a monarchial system and become the first king. It would have been impossible for Eyorak on his own to become king, If you notice, Stelt is formed of warlords who govern the rest of the people. Get enough warlords on yours side, and the rest will have two choices: a suicidal war, or joining you.

Here's a better description - which deviates a bit from the other one. And how did he get them to sign with him? Why him? Why not themselves? It's made clear enough that the groups are willing to join together to keep someone else from gaining power - once he had a couple dozen warlords, the others would have crashed down like a hurricane. Sure, more like a couple small tornadoes, but look what one tornado can do...What made those initial groups go with him? He'd be too weak risking all out war against one group to try it again. Is it that hard to give him the MacGuffin, or at least say - "This is our RPG. In our RPG, Stelt was always a monarchy, and its people were X, not Y".

It's rather self obvious that 99% of RPGs diverge from the canon.

Again - I was referring to the 'our Steltians aren't savages' part.Portal 2 time...-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

And surely if someone is flaming about religion, a quick word in the ear should suffice.

Experience from other religious flames on BZP tells me it would not

The nausea is the first step on the road to madness, just a little hint of how it goes down. Your idea of "going insane" seems to be all-or-none, since you mention that either they'll ignore it or they'll just go utterly gibbering bonkers the first time a Leviathan shows up. Not so, my good lad, not so. It's a slow, gradual process, and from my experience as a GM, players are quite capable of playing something like that.

Which means that its the isolation, the solitude, the constant pressure thats causing it, not the appearance of the monsters. Which means their appearance is inconsequential, they're just ugly. Like a rotting corpse would be. Why hello there zombies

That's a sad attitude to have.

Its the attitude you're "enforcing". You've made it clear that the Bastion cannot win. Can't defeat the monsters, can't strike any meaningful blow against them, the idea is just to fight until you die. And you've just said that the fortress itself is just a ruse against the players to make them think they've won before destroying them (since, after all, the heroes lose at the end of a Hope Spot).

And now you're complaining that you have no chance of winning (they do have a chance of winning, like the yacht that injured Cthulhu on Call of Cthulhu, but it's very slim)? Make up your mind!

No, I'm pointing out the contradictions in your themes. One moment you say you don't want to have everyone die because it wouldn't be fun, next you're saying everyone will die because the foe is too great. You can't have this be an optimistic story of how life will always cling on and a pessimistic story about how everyone will either go mad or die. Make up your mind

Willingness to let the players lose, instead of shoehorning in a happy ending.

Off the top of my head people who went up against Zyrul regularly lost in the Academy and the various Midnight Verbed RPGs by Koname had bittersweet endings if players had done certain thingsI'm having a hard time thinking of any that shoehorned a happy ending in though so few RPGs in this forum actually have proper endings

Fighting things that hurt you (drive you insane) just by being there, making it a very difficult fight compared to normal mooks.

Genrally all enemies hurt you by being around. By attacking you. And I've already commented on how the insanity effects of the creatures will have no actual effect, so thats moot

The Mafia-inspired Abd Al-Azred mechanic.

I'll be generous and say the Mafia games themselves don't count as they're not in this forum , but what you're telling me here is that having two factions in your RPG somehow makes you unique. I'm afraid it doesn't. All you're doing is limiting how many people are in this second factor

Only disappointing when it's wrong. I do accept criticism that has a point to it, but I can't see any to yours.

You seem to have missed it then, so I will refer you to my original statement, that the RPG has nothing special to it, that its rather bland, that it is, when you get down to it, just a fighting RPG with very little story (I'm sure you said you weren't a fan of those somewhere). I even offered a little advice on potential improvements but you seem to have skimmed over that.I also feel I should point out that you did rather miss what me and Spink were telling you in the COT topic, and if you're still bearing a grudge over that you're being more than a bit childish. Since you brought it up and all

[Relapse]

Its not so simple to take power; anyways, you're saying something different than the head-GM, so I have a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night you're just trying to explain something with a broken foundation.

I was explaining that there was a valid way to do it (as you questioned how he would go about doing it) but not necessarily the exact way. Besides, my explanation only slightly deviates from his in saying that he took out some opposition. That lapse in understanding was due to the fact that no one can truly understand a story that hasn't happened yet as well as the author himself.I see no broken foundation.

I was referring to the portion about 'our Steltians aren't savages'.

In that case, here are statements that could've lead you to my desired understanding:"I think personally that while Stelt is a place with good people, it's more of a grey area than anything.""Um, all steltian are rational beings with will and intellect, therefore all Steltians have the potency to become evil or good."Between those I believe you could've deduced the correct mindset.

[Grantaire]

I always lie. Have a paradox.

If you always lied, then your statement that you always lie is wrong. therefore, you only lie sometimes, like now.

Here's a better description - which deviates a bit from the other one. And how did he get them to sign with him? Why him? Why not themselves? It's made clear enough that the groups are willing to join together to keep someone else from gaining power - once he had a couple dozen warlords, the others would have crashed down like a hurricane. Sure, more like a couple small tornadoes, but look what one tornado can do...What made those initial groups go with him? He'd be too weak risking all out war against one group to try it again. Is it that hard to give him the MacGuffin, or at least say - "This is our RPG. In our RPG, Stelt was always a monarchy, and its people were X, not Y".

Okay, so they've just arrived on Metru Nui after months aboard ships, trying to survive. Next, they have next to no resources, and the land doesn't offer much. A senior warlord, a quite powerful, with support from several other warlords proposes a plan of government that will allow them to survive. He gains massive support from the half starved Steltians, and they make him king. Remember, if you're on the verge of starvation, with sickness, fighting, etc. breaking out, the future looks like non existent. If a powerful person, well respected (It is my opinion that the other Steltians, being a race of warriors, would bear him a form of grudging respect), comes along, and proposes a plan that will save your skin, has several other warlords supporting him, and starts enacting it, other warlords would join up, and as fewer were left out, those few would join as well.

[Lara White]

And surely if someone is flaming about religion, a quick word in the ear should suffice.

Experience from other religious flames on BZP tells me it would not

Aaaand you see where I'm going with this?

The nausea is the first step on the road to madness, just a little hint of how it goes down. Your idea of "going insane" seems to be all-or-none, since you mention that either they'll ignore it or they'll just go utterly gibbering bonkers the first time a Leviathan shows up. Not so, my good lad, not so. It's a slow, gradual process, and from my experience as a GM, players are quite capable of playing something like that.

Which means that its the isolation, the solitude, the constant pressure thats causing it, not the appearance of the monsters. Which means their appearance is inconsequential, they're just ugly. Like a rotting corpse would be. Why hello there zombies

...What isolation? They're in a large fortress full of the last of their kind. Sure there's pressure, but that is not the primary factor in their insanity--take these same Toa and pitch them against a zombie horde of equal size to the Outer Hordes, with only the Bastion and Colossi at their disposal and the odds are good they'd win. The simple fact, that you keep ignoring, is that the primary motivation in the insanity is the sheer alien-ness of the Horde. You seem, from where I'm sitting, to be grasping at anything you can attribute the madness to aside from the obvious. You know, the thing that I have said, by GM-fiat, is the cause.

That's a sad attitude to have.

Its the attitude you're "enforcing". You've made it clear that the Bastion cannot win. Can't defeat the monsters, can't strike any meaningful blow against them, the idea is just to fight until you die. And you've just said that the fortress itself is just a ruse against the players to make them think they've won before destroying them (since, after all, the heroes lose at the end of a Hope Spot).

And now you're complaining that you have no chance of winning (they do have a chance of winning, like the yacht that injured Cthulhu on Call of Cthulhu, but it's very slim)? Make up your mind!

No, I'm pointing out the contradictions in your themes. One moment you say you don't want to have everyone die because it wouldn't be fun, next you're saying everyone will die because the foe is too great. You can't have this be an optimistic story of how life will always cling on and a pessimistic story about how everyone will either go mad or die. Make up your mind

I'll address these two jointly. I'm not contradicting myself. it's perfectly possible to offer the players hope, by which they can play for three months or so against all odds, and maybe, maybe win. Even Lovecraft didn't have all of his stories end badly. However, since most of his stories did end badly, the players are going to have to work very, very hard to get that good ending. So it's not that the Bastion "cannot' win, it's that it's unlikely in the extreme.The players can strike meaningful blows, it's just that the need a lot of strategically-placed very good ones. The idea of fighting until the PC dies is central to this game, as it's one of the main things that I want to observe--how the players react to having their PCs killed. You, I can tell, seem to be reacting badly. Notice, I didn't put a limit on making PCs after previous ones have died. The Bastion isn't a ruse--it's the base of operations, to let players take a breather between missions and carry on spy-hunting. I, unlike certain people I could name, will never, ever punish players for good behavior. I am perfectly willing to let a character die because of a stupid idea. I am perfectly willing to let a character die because the player didn't do well enough to overcome their obstacle. But if the players win a battle, I will never, ever roflstomp them afterward with no way for them to save themselves, and I take offense to the implication that I would.You also don't seem to understand the difference between the main body of gameplay and the ending. I'll compare it to Mass Effect 2: the squad can fight perfectly well for the majority of the game, but if you didn't do sufficiently well during the main body of the game, the ending will be bad. I just happen to put the bar higher than Mass Effect does because that's what is expected in a Lovecraft-inspired game.

Willingness to let the players lose, instead of shoehorning in a happy ending.

Off the top of my head people who went up against Zyrul regularly lost in the Academy and the various Midnight Verbed RPGs by Koname had bittersweet endings if players had done certain thingsI'm having a hard time thinking of any that shoehorned a happy ending in though so few RPGs in this forum actually have proper endings

I recall watching RPGs that had to be terminated earlier than expected hurry along battles-in-progress and finish off the Big Bad in one post to give the PCs a happy ending. I couldn't point you to the specific game but I do recall it was one set in BZPower.

Fighting things that hurt you (drive you insane) just by being there, making it a very difficult fight compared to normal mooks.

Genrally all enemies hurt you by being around. By attacking you. And I've already commented on how the insanity effects of the creatures will have no actual effect, so thats moot

You mis-represent what i'm saying here. I'm not saying that they hurt you by attacking you, I'm saying that simply looking at them leaves long, lasting damage. Tell me what zombie can injure you just by being looked at?

The Mafia-inspired Abd Al-Azred mechanic.

I'll be generous and say the Mafia games themselves don't count as they're not in this forum , but what you're telling me here is that having two factions in your RPG somehow makes you unique. I'm afraid it doesn't. All you're doing is limiting how many people are in this second factor

I've wanted to include a Mafia mechanic in an RPG for a while, since I've never seen it done before. But I'm calling shenanigans on your interpretation that I meant "two factions." No one is silly enough to think that is what I meant. I'm using the idea of Mafia (informed minority trying to defeat an uninformed majority, who are hunting them) and applying it to an RPG. That is quite clear. When you think Mafia, the first thing that jumps into your head--the thing that makes you play it--is most certainly not "oh, it's got two factions." Anyone who's played a Mafia game hosted by me knows that's silly. It's the idea of an informed minority vs an uninformed majority, to put it in the technical terms.

Only disappointing when it's wrong. I do accept criticism that has a point to it, but I can't see any to yours.

You seem to have missed it then, so I will refer you to my original statement, that the RPG has nothing special to it, that its rather bland, that it is, when you get down to it, just a fighting RPG with very little story (I'm sure you said you weren't a fan of those somewhere). I even offered a little advice on potential improvements but you seem to have skimmed over that.I also feel I should point out that you did rather miss what me and Spink were telling you in the COT topic, and if you're still bearing a grudge over that you're being more than a bit childish. Since you brought it up and all

I did see that you said that there's nothing special about this RPG. I think that's patently ridiculous. It's like saying that there was nothing unique about Night of Infinity because it just used the backdrop of a science fiction world to let people fight each other, and wasn't original because Cap'n had used the idea of rank systems first. I didn't see you suggest very many improvements (though I did say that I liked the idea of a Sanity Meter but you wouldn't, because that's a number system). I do like having story over just fighting, but I like letting the player dictate the course of the story even more.All I gathered from you and Spink was that "it'll never catch on" because apparently numbers systems are too restrictive, which is absurd because I have participated in and currently am playing numbers-based games which leave far more up to chance and out of control of the players than Dulce did, and everyone enjoys it. Yes, I'm displeased that you turned it down because it didn't fit your apparently quite narrow conception of what an RPG should be.I also feel that the likelihood of you being mistaken about the blandness of my RPG is much higher than the odds of my having criticism-blinders on, mostly because all of the other people who've reviewed my RPG like it and do not feel that it's bland.

[Shyyrn]

If Lloyd wants his game's antagonists to be gelatinous monsters, let them be gelatinous monsters.If Zarayna wants a Steltian monarchy, let him have a Steltian monarchy.The GMs should have creative control of their games, and should be allowed to establish the factions, characters, and settings as they see fit.If somebody does perceive a possible hole in a part of the background--as Levacius does when he insists that a Steltian monarchy would be inherently unstable--I feel the onus should be on that person to exploit that hole within the game. If you feel that the other Steltian warlords can be turned against the monarch, then convince them to do so within the game.If you can do so legitimately and without godmodding, then it is within your right to do so. But trying to strike down the GM's idea before it even gets out of the gate limits that GM's creative control.My two widgets,ShyyrnP.S.: This is not, by the way, a different way of saying 'No one should be allowed to criticize GMs.' Of course you should... if you feel the idea would potenitally limit the gameplay experience or chances of winning the contest, not because you have a personal quarrel with the storyline, which is what Levacius seems to have with 'City of the Dead.'

Edited March 14, 2012 by Shyyrn