Concerning Av-Matoran Becoming Toa.

[DeLaSouth]

If a regular Av-Matoran (like the ones from Karda Nui) were to become a Toa for some reason, would they possess the same amount of power as Takanuva? Or was Takua's transformation due to different circumstances.Because.. Takanuva is pretty powerful. And a Toa team made up of Av-Matoran-turned-Toa could potentially be.. unstoppable.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

I don't see why Takanuva wouldn't be a typical Toa of Light in terms of power. He also doesn't seem to be too powerful relative to other strong Toa, such as the Nuva, so being unstoppable seems a bit of an exaggeration.~B~

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ballom

[bonesiii]

What do you mean in saying he was pretty powerful? All Toa are powerful. His light-based abilities are more, though, simply because his mask has the elemental power of light too. But overall all non-Nuva Toa have the same amount of power. Experience can help, though, so a new one will be less effective than Takanuva in story-present.

[Infrared]

They would be more powerful than the average Toa in the sense that they are the element opposite to Shadow, which many villains (like Makuta) have. Besides that, Takanuva's above-average power is just due to his Avohkii, as bonesiii said. Now, on the other hand, a Toa of Gravity wearing a Garai would be a force to be reckoned with.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Those Kanohi don't increase the power of their respective elements, they just compliment the Toa's powers with extra abilities.

[The Iron Toa]

I thought a Toa wearing a mask that has the same elemental powers that the Toa already has was uselessly redundant, unless the mask had unique powers as the Mask of Light does. But anyway, as it was said above, Takanuva himself is no more powerful than any other Toa, it's just that his element is especially dangerous to Makuta, Rahkshi, and other beings of Shadow.

Edited April 17, 2012 by The Iron Toa

[bonesiii]

I thought a Toa wearing a mask that has the same elemental powers that the Toa already has was uselessly redundant, unless the mask had unique powers as the Mask of Light does.

Not entirely useless, as it does increase the total light power they have, but yeah, a different power would be better generally. Even with the extra powers of the MOL, you could argue that any other Toa of Light would be more adaptable than Takanuva, in fact.

[toatitan]

I thought the mask of light was more like a vesssel to bring out the power in a toa of light, and there was only destined to be one Av-toa. I dont think it really gave Takanuva enhanced powers.(although I wonder if the Avohkii would provide full power over light if Takanuva lost his elemental power like the toa Nuva did when facing the bohrok-kal.)

[fishers64]

I thought the mask of light was more like a vesssel to bring out the power in a toa of light, and there was only destined to be one Av-toa. I dont think it really gave Takanuva enhanced powers.(although I wonder if the Avohkii would provide full power over light if Takanuva lost his elemental power like the toa Nuva did when facing the bohrok-kal.)

I would say yes, although the power would require a bit more concentration to use, and be less intense (more user effort to achieve same effect).Takanuva doesn't have a Nuva symbol, right? He isn't technically a Nuva in terms of power, correct - the "nuva" on the end of his name is just simantics? I mean, it's not like he can share the powers of the Mask of Light with someone else?

[bonesiii]

I thought the mask of light was more like a vesssel to bring out the power in a toa of light, and there was only destined to be one Av-toa. I dont think it really gave Takanuva enhanced powers.(although I wonder if the Avohkii would provide full power over light if Takanuva lost his elemental power like the toa Nuva did when facing the bohrok-kal.)

He's not the only one destined, he's just the only one who ever found himself in contact with the equivalent of a Toa Stone, which the Avhokii stood in for. It was actually stated that Av-Matoran are more commonly destined to become Toa.And the Mask of Light is the elemental mask of light, just as the name implies. The fact that it was apparently charged with Toa energy too does not by any means make that its only function. Plus it has some light-inspired side powers (which I forget off the top of my head lol).What isn't clear is if the Avhokii's elemental power is equivalent to a Toa's -- does it double Takanuva's power, or just give a bonus amount of power beyond normal? I tend to think it's the latter, at least in this case, since some of its power is devoted to the side powers. I also have no idea who charged it with Toa energy, heh.

I thought the mask of light was more like a vesssel to bring out the power in a toa of light, and there was only destined to be one Av-toa. I dont think it really gave Takanuva enhanced powers.(although I wonder if the Avohkii would provide full power over light if Takanuva lost his elemental power like the toa Nuva did when facing the bohrok-kal.)

I would say yes, although the power would require a bit more concentration to use, and be less intense (more user effort to achieve same effect).Takanuva doesn't have a Nuva symbol, right? He isn't technically a Nuva in terms of power, correct - the "nuva" on the end of his name is just simantics? I mean, it's not like he can share the powers of the Mask of Light with someone else?

No, he's not a Toa Nuva. Common misconception we've had to answer over and over in S&T, heh. "Nuva" is the Matoran word for new, and taka is apparently a modified form of Takua, so it means New Takua, or Takua in his New Form. And he looks like a Nuva only because of the "mental image of Toa" system; he had apparently already gotten used to the Nuva appearance of Tahu and company, seeing that as Toa instead of their Mata forms..

[fishers64]

Thanks for the clarification. As for the rest of quandries:

Great: The Great Kanohi Avohkii allows its user to have Toa-level range and strength of Elemental Light powers. In addition, it can spread understanding to others, generating peace and trust. It can also sense moral light in other beings. While it is one of the few Kanohi to have Elemental Powers, it will not boost any pre-existing Elemental Light powers the user wields.

That might shed some light on the matter. *is arrested by the bad pun police*

[Axilus Prime]

Light simply has more applications. I'm sure Fishers64 is right, I was thinking the same thing while reading this topic, and then I saw his post. I mean, holograms, lasers, simple blasts of hot blazing light, and much more. How many other elements are that versatile? There's more to light than letting people see indoors at night.

[Makuta Matata]

If they were in Karda Nui, they would be larger than other Toa, but I don't see how they would be any less powerful than Takanuva besides the fact that he wears a Mask of Light.

[Dwanny]

I always thought it would be impossible for any other toa of light to come into being, since there is only one Avohkii.According to the encyclopedia, the toa power was somehow stored in the mask, so i doubt it would work without it.(I wonder what turaga Takanuva would look like...)

[Elrond of Rivendell]

I always thought it would be impossible for any other toa of light to come into being, since there is only one Avohkii.According to the encyclopedia, the toa power was somehow stored in the mask, so i doubt it would work without it.(I wonder what turaga Takanuva would look like...)

I think everyone's forgetting something. In another alternate dimension, Takanuva was a turaga, and Tanma had become a toa, although he was destroyed by a fragmentation blast from Makuta.Also, I think that somewhere, it said that the Avokhii could be used for lightspeed. Does anyone else remember that?-Bane

[Toa Zaz]

In one of the comics, wasn't one of the Makuta saying something about Av-Matoran being more likely to become Toa than other Matoran? And if that's the case, then why is there only one Toa of Light?

[bonesiii]

Thanks for the clarification.As for the rest of quandries:

Great: The Great Kanohi Avohkii allows its user to have Toa-level range and strength of Elemental Light powers. In addition, it can spread understanding to others, generating peace and trust. It can also sense moral light in other beings. While it is one of the few Kanohi to have Elemental Powers, it will not boost any pre-existing Elemental Light powers the user wields.

That might shed some light on the matter. *is arrested by the bad pun police*

So it would seem a Toa can only use one elemental power at a time, and having a mask of their same element counts as a second instance of their element. If he wore a Mask of Fire, he would only be able to use light or fire, but not both at the same time, apparently. So it doubles the amount of light he can control if he runs out of elemental energy, maybe, but not how much he can use at once?I wonder though if we know how elemental masks handle elemental energy. Do they run out and automatically recharge the way Toa themselves do? (A question I don't remember being asked on the old forums. )

I always thought it would be impossible for any other toa of light to come into being, since there is only one Avohkii.According to the encyclopedia, the toa power was somehow stored in the mask, so i doubt it would work without it.(I wonder what turaga Takanuva would look like...)

Where did you get the idea that only masks can be used to make Toa? In 2004 we saw the normal method -- Toa Stones. It should also be possible for a Toa to impart Toa energy directly to a destined Matoran. This would work the same way for any destined Av-Matoran as the Avhokii did -- just consider the Avhokii to be a Toa Stone, since it was treated as one. It really had nothing to do with the Mask of Light itself, except symbolically.In your second sentence, do you meant Toa-izing? That's correct; the Toa energy that was in the Avhokii is spent now, so it's just a normal elemental mask now.

I always thought it would be impossible for any other toa of light to come into being, since there is only one Avohkii.According to the encyclopedia, the toa power was somehow stored in the mask, so i doubt it would work without it.(I wonder what turaga Takanuva would look like...)

I think everyone's forgetting something. In another alternate dimension, Takanuva was a turaga, and Tanma had become a toa, although he was destroyed by a fragmentation blast from Makuta.Also, I think that somewhere, it said that the Avokhii could be used for lightspeed. Does anyone else remember that?-Bane

I thought that was specifically denied by Greg. That one guardian to the Mask of Life could do it, but I think he was the exception. Toa can't turn into their element, and elemental masks seem to work identically to Toa power, other than the Avhokii and Kraakhan's emotional powers.

In one of the comics, wasn't one of the Makuta saying something about Av-Matoran being more likely to become Toa than other Matoran? And if that's the case, then why is there only one Toa of Light?

Did you read my posts above? I commented on that. To add: There were no Toa in Karda Nui, where the vast majority of Av-Matoran lived, other than the Toa Mata, who spent most of their time in canisters and hadn't fulfilled their destiny, so they couldn't afford to spend their Toa Energy and become Turaga. And apparently no other Toa ever sent Toa Stones there, so none of the destined Matoran could become Toa at that time.Further, the few Av-Matoran like Takua that were hidden throughout the MU also didn't happen to come into contact with Toa Stones. As a type they are more likely, but if you only consider the hidden ones they were a lot less numerous than other types, so those ones were less likely simply due to being rarer.Now that everybody has come together on Spherus Magna it's a lot more likely that destined Matoran will get Toa Energy. :)In other words there are two different kinds of statistics about becoming Toa -- the "more likely" refers to "more likely to be destined to be Toa", but they were far, far less likely to actually be Toa-ized at the time. Destiny is just a potential, that could happen at any time, or never happen at all if they die first by accident or the like (apparently possible in this case anyways). Edited April 17, 2012 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

Light simply has more applications. I'm sure Fishers64 is right, I was thinking the same thing while reading this topic, and then I saw his post. I mean, holograms, lasers, simple blasts of hot blazing light, and much more. How many other elements are that versatile? There's more to light than letting people see indoors at night.

Are you thinking of my response tothis topic? @bones: I don't really know, but the best guess I can say is no, because Masks like the Pakari and whatnot don't run out of energy, and a mask is a mask is a mask. 

[BenLuke]

In one of the comics, wasn't one of the Makuta saying something about Av-Matoran being more likely to become Toa than other Matoran? And if that's the case, then why is there only one Toa of Light?

Not sure if that was ever stated in the comics, although I believe I have head that before, possible from some question Greg was asked? Still, it's a bit silly, as we only know of one Av-Matoran that has become a Toa,

[bonesiii]

Still, it's a bit silly, as we only know of one Av-Matoran that has become a Toa,

Don't confuse "destined to become Toa" with "have become Toa already." There's a huge difference.And again, it has major importance for the future of Spherus Magna; it means it's very likely there could be a lot of new Toa of Light there. Edited April 17, 2012 by bonesiii

[TLhikan]

There's at good chance that there will be more Toa of Light; it happened in the Kingdom.

thought that was specifically denied by Greg. That one guardian to the Mask of Life could do it, but I think he was the exception. Toa can't turn into their element, and elemental masks seem to work identically to Toa power, other than the Avhokii and Kraakhan's emotional powers.

Really? I thought I read that Takanuva was experimenting with it (but it may be that he was doomed to fail). Edited April 17, 2012 by TLhikan

[The Iron Toa]

I think it was said that a Toa of Light could theoretically learn that ability, because Photok could while he was linked with a Toa, which means it is a light elemental technique. I don't think the Mask of Light would grant that ability though, and I remember it was said that Takanuva would need lots of practice to use that and the other Av-Matoran abilities.

[bonesiii]

It's more than just a sub-power of light, though, because you have to control the matter your body is made out of to turn it into light. The same would go for any other element. So it is a power that combines an element with the power of self-transmutation, which is not an elemental power. So Toa shouldn't be able to do it logically.(Toa Ignika is a different matter since he's made of his element, though, so he could probably teleport himself just as he could teleport others, but anyways I'm getting very tangential now. )

[fishers64]

I think it was said that a Toa of Light could theoretically learn that ability, because Photok could while he was linked with a Toa, which means it is a light elemental technique. I don't think the Mask of Light would grant that ability though, and I remember it was said that Takanuva would need lots of practice to use that and the other Av-Matoran abilities.

Wasn't that Photok merely activating Pohatu's mask via mindlink?

[The Iron Toa]

Could be, but according to BS01 it's one of the latent Av-Matoran powers. And I agree that it doesn't make sense, I'm just pretty sure I read a quote from Greg or something a long time ago saying it would be possible.

[Axilus Prime]

Thanks for the clarification.As for the rest of quandries:

Great: The Great Kanohi Avohkii allows its user to have Toa-level range and strength of Elemental Light powers. In addition, it can spread understanding to others, generating peace and trust. It can also sense moral light in other beings. While it is one of the few Kanohi to have Elemental Powers, it will not boost any pre-existing Elemental Light powers the user wields.

That might shed some light on the matter. *is arrested by the bad pun police*

This is the one I'm referring to.

[Dwanny]

Where did you get the idea that only masks can be used to make Toa? In 2004 we saw the normal method -- Toa Stones. It should also be possible for a Toa to impart Toa energy directly to a destined Matoran. This would work the same way for any destined Av-Matoran as the Avhokii did -- just consider the Avhokii to be a Toa Stone, since it was treated as one. It really had nothing to do with the Mask of Light itself, except symbolically.

I know that. I was just thinking that the avohlii was the only way for a toa of LIGHT to come to being.So, if there had been a different destined Av-Matoran, it would have worked, but then the toa power in the mask would be no more, thus resulting in no more toa of light....I think.

[fishers64]

Where did you get the idea that only masks can be used to make Toa? In 2004 we saw the normal method -- Toa Stones. It should also be possible for a Toa to impart Toa energy directly to a destined Matoran. This would work the same way for any destined Av-Matoran as the Avhokii did -- just consider the Avhokii to be a Toa Stone, since it was treated as one. It really had nothing to do with the Mask of Light itself, except symbolically.

I know that. I was just thinking that the avohlii was the only way for a toa of LIGHT to come to being.So, if there had been a different destined Av-Matoran, it would have worked, but then the toa power in the mask would be no more, thus resulting in no more toa of light....I think.

But that isn't true. Matoran of Light can become Toa of Light by Toa Stone just like any other Matoran.

[bonesiii]

Yeah, Toa Energy is Toa Energy. The elemental energy is already in them, including Takua, so it happening to be a mask of light had no physics relevance.

[Zestanor]

Now I'm not quite up to speed on a lot of this mythology, but from what you guys are saying, any Matoran destined to be a Toa (such as Jaller) could have put on the Mask of Light, and they would have become a Toa? I mean if the Mask was essentially a Toa Stone...

[fishers64]

Now I'm not quite up to speed on a lot of this mythology, but from what you guys are saying, any Matoran destined to be a Toa (such as Jaller) could have put on the Mask of Light, and they would have become a Toa? I mean if the Mask was essentially a Toa Stone...

Yes, but that person would not have become a Toa of Light...unless the mask was specifically designed to detect the type of Matoran that was wearing the mask, and I doubt it.

[Goldenguy]

As far as I know, Takanuva has the power of a regular toa, and regarding the mask, I think Arthaka created it as a detector of light matora, as they were hidden, so that they could become toa in natural ways, and apparently it could also release toa energy, probably to prove that Toa of Light were possible, but only once, as in the Dark Mirror alternate Takua didn't transformed when he wore the mask.

[fishers64]

As far as I know, Takanuva has the power of a regular toa, and regarding the mask, I think Arthaka created it as a detector of light matora, as they were hidden, so that they could become toa in natural ways, and apparently it could also release toa energy, probably to prove that Toa of Light were possible, but only once, as in the Dark Mirror alternate Takua didn't transformed when he wore the mask.

Why would the Mask of Light detect the presance of Light Matoran? Do we have any evidence for that?

[Katuko]

When Takua tocuhed it, the mask shone. When Jaller or anyone else did, it did not. Seems evident to me that it detected either his Light element or his destiny to become a Toa; most likely both at once given who created it. Jaller later became a Toa himself (by a non-standard method, but still) so I'd say the mask did indeed have the capability to recognize only destined Av-Matoran.

[fishers64]

When Takua tocuhed it, the mask shone. When Jaller or anyone else did, it did not. Seems evident to me that it detected either his Light element or his destiny to become a Toa; most likely both at once given who created it. Jaller later became a Toa himself (by a non-standard method, but still) so I'd say the mask did indeed have the capability to recognize only destined Av-Matoran.

Point conceded; fair enough. *facepalm* Recogize,yes, but would it recognize it enough that if Jaller put the Mask on his face before Taka did, he wouldn't become a Toa?

[Goldenguy]

When Takua tocuhed it, the mask shone. When Jaller or anyone else did, it did not. Seems evident to me that it detected either his Light element or his destiny to become a Toa; most likely both at once given who created it. Jaller later became a Toa himself (by a non-standard method, but still) so I'd say the mask did indeed have the capability to recognize only destined Av-Matoran.

Point conceded; fair enough. *facepalm*Recogize,yes, but would it recognize it enough that if Jaller put the Mask on his face before Taka did, he wouldn't become a Toa?

The mask only workswith Av-matora, Jaller was a ta-matoran, so no, the mask wouldn't have transformed him into a Toa...

[bonesiii]

Put it this way -- if for example Takua was killed, and a new Toa was needed, destiny might very well make the Avhokii Toa-ize Jaller as an emergency solution.Since there was no emergency at the time, destiny had every reason to stick to the plan and only let the Avhokii Toa-ize Takua, and the story play out as it did.

[Master Inika]

I think elemental masks like the Avohkii allow said Toa to use their power without worrying about it running out.Takanuva only seemed particularly powerful because, in his first appearance, he fought a Rahkshi and Makuta, both of which are more vulnerable to light than other elements. Against, say, Dark Hunters, Takanuva wouldn't be any more valuable than any other random Toa.

[PDPsi HAN]

Another question would be if Takanuva is more powerful than a Toa Nuva.

[Sumiki]

Another question would be if Takanuva is more powerful than a Toa Nuva.

It's been confirmed from the canon sources before - Takanuva is no more powerful that the Nuva, though his armor and name confused the heck out of pretty much everybody.