Major Confusions On Elements?

[Anti Nui]

I really think a Toa of Psionics should be able to fly, since using Telekinesis to fly/hover is a common thing in fiction, and I don't see why they couldn't do it if Toa of Gravity and Magnetism can do so with their respective elements. Couldn't they use telekinesis to "push" the ground beneath them, allowing them to lift up in the air?

[bonesiii]

No, Toa of Psionics can't. The reasoning as I think of it is basically that Psionics is like a third arm that reaches from the self to something else, and it's more difficult the larger the object. Pushing against the ground (or an object that in turn pushes off the ground etc.) is like trying to telekinetically move the planet (or giant robot) away from you, which is just too much. So it has to be your feet on the ground, lifting something else via your magic extra arm. (Or your feet on anything else, held up by some other means perhaps.)As for others, I know a definitive list was given recently, but I forget where (maybe earlier in this topic?). I know Air is out, although as I have pointed out if they had sufficient glider wings attached they could. And I know Gravity and Magnetics are in. I forget about Iron.

[Podu]

Completely unrelated, but can Toa of Psionics create a barrier like a hau does?

They can telekinetically make objects not get close to them, with more difficulty with the larger ones, and presumably would not be able to if they didn't see it coming. So in a sense, yes. I doubt it would be an energy shield like Tahu's, but it's possible.

What does the elemental Shadow does? So far it seems to be similar to Elemental light in some aspects, like creating solid light/shadow objects, or using them as a beam to burn something. And how does it work exactly?

I think instead of burning it could indirectly freeze things perhaps, but there's never been confirmation of that as far as I know. It can also physically move things as with the Shadow Hands. It works by draining light that is present.

I am pretty sure Makuta used a Shadow blast to burn Keetongu's chestplate in Time Trap.

[DarkLordBane154]

After looking through the topic I still didn't find a definitive answer about Iron flying, several people said yes, others said no, no general consensus was given.

[Anti Nui]

No, Toa of Psionics can't. The reasoning as I think of it is basically that Psionics is like a third arm that reaches from the self to something else, and it's more difficult the larger the object. Pushing against the ground (or an object that in turn pushes off the ground etc.) is like trying to telekinetically move the planet (or giant robot) away from you, which is just too much. So it has to be your feet on the ground, lifting something else via your magic extra arm. (Or your feet on anything else, held up by some other means perhaps.)

This is kind of a confusing thing to debate about since telekinesis doesn't exist in real life and we have no idea how it works. :PBut that's exactly what I mean. A Psionics Toa can't push a planet, so instead wouldn't he/she just get pushed back into the air? The ground doesn't necessarily have to be "large" either (I know how literally incorrect that sounds), the Toa could just be focusing on a small spot on the ground. Not the ground as a whole.Since we're comparing Telekinesis to an arm, let me put it this way - say Telekinesis is like an invisible arm.Suppose only Jebraz's arm is invisible, and the rest of his body was still normal. He does a one-handed handstand on his invisible arm and pushes against the ground, lifting the rest of his body upwards, thus giving him the appearance that he's floating in the air. I know Telekinesis is not the same thing as literally having an invisible arm, but why couldn't it work in a similar way?I guess what it comes down to is whether or not telekinesis can be used to push yourself away from an object. For example, if a Toa of Psionics were standing on a near-frictionless surface (such as a frozen lake) and tried to use telekinesis to push a nearby flagpole (or any other kind of immovable object), would the Toa start sliding away from it in the opposite direction? Or would nothing happen?Did Greg ever say anything about whether or not Psionics Toa could fly or levitate?

[High Voltage]

After looking through the topic I still didn't find a definitive answer about Iron flying, several people said yes, others said no, no general consensus was given.

Greg did say it. You're going to have to take my word on it though, as I am not digging around the old forums for a quote.

Since we're comparing Telekinesis to an arm, let me put it this way - say Telekinesis is like an invisible arm.Suppose only Jebraz's arm is invisible, and the rest of his body was still normal. He does a one-handed handstand on his invisible arm and pushes against the ground, lifting the rest of his body upwards, thus giving him the appearance that he's floating in the air. I know Telekinesis is not the same thing as literally having an invisible arm, but why couldn't it work in a similar way?

Yes but one-handed handstands are really hard. Seriously though, if we're going with the arm thing, I'd say trying to lift yourself with psionics would be be more akin to trying to lift yourself with your own arm. It's just not possible. Edited September 3, 2012 by High Voltage

[bonesiii]

But that's exactly what I mean. A Psionics Toa can't push a planet, so instead wouldn't he/she just get pushed back into the air?

What I'm saying is basically that the invisible arm would fail to form. If you tried to start it, it would fall apart before doing anything. As I think of it anyways.Put it this way. The arm is like a flashlight beam, spreading out across an entire object's molecules. Only so much mental energy can be channeled into it to make so much telekinetic energy, even for a Toa of Psionics. If you lift a small rock, there's enough to cover it and have a strong effect. If the object is the giant robot's interior ground, the energy spreads out over a vast distance and there's no enough per cubic inch to do anything.You may ask why wouldn't they be able to focus the beam on just a patch of the ground, and I'd say no absolute reason they couldn't, if we were the GBs programming this element, but objectively there could be many reasons, such as to ensure Toa of Psionics are not overpowered, considering they can already do many other things.

Since we're comparing Telekinesis to an arm, let me put it this way - say Telekinesis is like an invisible arm.Suppose only Jebraz's arm is invisible, and the rest of his body was still normal.

Analogy doesn't fit; not that kind of arm.

I guess what it comes down to is whether or not telekinesis can be used to push yourself away from an object. For example, if a Toa of Psionics were standing on a near-frictionless surface (such as a frozen lake) and tried to use telekinesis to push a nearby flagpole (or any other kind of immovable object), would the Toa start sliding away from it in the opposite direction? Or would nothing happen?

It doesn't come down to that, IMO, because as I said, the arm would fail to form or have significant effect for a large object, as I see it. But I see the flagpole example as another fail to form thing; that they cannot choose to just focus on part of the ground. The flagpole counts as part of the ground so IMO the beam would spread out just like with the ground itself. So nothing should happen.But I would lean towards the idea that it doesn't push them back too. The power may very well need to follow down their feet and whatever is holding up their feet to form the base of the arm -- that would help explain why levitation wouldn't work, as they'd be pushing off from the ground to lift the ground. Not sure though. It may also be that this entire analogy of mine does fail, but that a simple forbidding rule in the power's code prevents self-telekinesis purely to avoid being overpowered. But I doubt that because we do know that the larger the object the harder it would be.

Did Greg ever say anything about whether or not Psionics Toa could fly or levitate?

What I said earlier was meant to convey that he said they couldn't. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. It's Iron Toa I can't recall either way. I'm sure someone found a conclusive quote and posted it in some topic recently. Maybe another OGD search would be best. Edited September 3, 2012 by bonesiii

[Anti Nui]

Yes but one-handed handstands are really hard. Seriously though, if we're going with the arm thing, I'd say trying to lift yourself with psionics would be be more akin to trying to lift yourself with your own arm. It's just not possible.

"Really hard" doesn't necessarily mean "just not possible." With enough training, or perhaps with enough experience and potency in using Psionics in the same way that Helryx does with Water, who knows?With all due respect, I don't understand how you guys can come to the conclusion of whether or not a fictional ability is possible in a certain way when, again, we don't have any idea how this would work in real life. The arm thing was just a metaphorical example, and it wasn't supposed to mean that using telekinesis to lift yourself in the air is the same as (or even as difficult as) lifting yourself off the ground with one arm.Like I said, this really all depends on whether or not telekinesis works in the way that I described it with the frozen lake example. And I don't think this is something that we can really figure out on our own using logic, and we'd only get a definitive answer if we were able to ask Greg about it.Edit: Just now saw Bonesiii's post. Did not know Greg said they couldn't. I guess that pretty much settles this debate. Edited September 3, 2012 by Anti Nui

[bonesiii]

Yes, the only reason I came up with the arm analogy in the first place was to try to explain the canon fact of it. Not the other way around. :PI had just edited this into the previous post but now that I'm posting again, might as well move it here:It appears I was mistaken about someone quoting Greg about it; rather they cited him by paraphrasing. Just searching this S&T, someone said Greg confirmed Gravity, Magnetism, and Iron can fly. I added that Air can if they have significant glider wings, and Fire if they have a jetpack-shaped Tool to channel the fire downward as with Vakama. The same is probably true of Plasma.

[Podu]

How does Iron fly again?And also no one answered my question of how can Shadow blasts hurt other people? Light blasts I understand as they give off heat, but Shadow blasts?

[bonesiii]

Well, Toa can control their elements. Iron Toa can move the iron in their own armor. Obviously the same flashlight-beam-arm example I gave for telekinesis must not apply to this one. (Remember Telekinesis is a sub-power, not the element itself.)Well, someone said that Shadow was used to "burn" Keetongu. I don't recall this scene, but I would presume it actually was more like freezer burn than heat burning. Suddenly and violently freezing a part of someone but not freezing the entire being (as with Kopaka's common stun option) could hurt a lot, and even be fatal if you did it to the right part.

Edited September 3, 2012 by bonesiii

[Click]

Well, Toa can control their elements. Iron Toa can move the iron in their own armor. Obviously the same flashlight-beam-arm example I gave for telekinesis must not apply to this one. (Remember Telekinesis is a sub-power, not the element itself.)Well, someone said that Shadow was used to "burn" Keetongu. I don't recall this scene, but I would presume it actually was more like freezer burn than heat burning. Suddenly and violently freezing a part of someone but not freezing the entire being (as with Kopaka's common stun option) could hurt a lot, and even be fatal if you did it to the right part.

Actually, here's the direct quote:

Before Keetongu could react, Makuta struck again. Heat vision shot from his eyes and struck Keetongu's armored chest, welding shut the compartment that hid his Rhotuka launcher.

So, the "burning" and "welding" was done by heat vision, unless this isn't the instance you mean. I'll look through the book a little more.

[fishers64]

Erm, Shadow could possibly remove all light from the being involved, and since it is commonly associated with evil, I imagine that it would cause intense pain on the target involved.Every good quality you ever had, draining away. All hope, gone. Nothing left but sadness and malicious laughter. In addition to the obvious qualities of turning everything pitch-black and the shadow-hand thing.

[Podu]

Well, Toa can control their elements. Iron Toa can move the iron in their own armor. Obviously the same flashlight-beam-arm example I gave for telekinesis must not apply to this one. (Remember Telekinesis is a sub-power, not the element itself.)Well, someone said that Shadow was used to "burn" Keetongu. I don't recall this scene, but I would presume it actually was more like freezer burn than heat burning. Suddenly and violently freezing a part of someone but not freezing the entire being (as with Kopaka's common stun option) could hurt a lot, and even be fatal if you did it to the right part.

Actually, here's the direct quote:

Before Keetongu could react, Makuta struck again. Heat vision shot from his eyes and struck Keetongu's armored chest, welding shut the compartment that hid his Rhotuka launcher.

So, the "burning" and "welding" was done by heat vision, unless this isn't the instance you mean. I'll look through the book a little more.

If it isn't that book it must be somewhere in the online serials or later during one of the Toa Nuva/Makuta fight.

[High Voltage]

Yes but one-handed handstands are really hard. Seriously though, if we're going with the arm thing, I'd say trying to lift yourself with psionics would be be more akin to trying to lift yourself with your own arm. It's just not possible.

"Really hard" doesn't necessarily mean "just not possible." With enough training, or perhaps with enough experience and potency in using Psionics in the same way that Helryx does with Water, who knows?With all due respect, I don't understand how you guys can come to the conclusion of whether or not a fictional ability is possible in a certain way when, again, we don't have any idea how this would work in real life. The arm thing was just a metaphorical example, and it wasn't supposed to mean that using telekinesis to lift yourself in the air is the same as (or even as difficult as) lifting yourself off the ground with one arm.Like I said, this really all depends on whether or not telekinesis works in the way that I described it with the frozen lake example. And I don't think this is something that we can really figure out on our own using logic, and we'd only get a definitive answer if we were able to ask Greg about it.Edit: Just now saw Bonesiii's post. Did not know Greg said they couldn't. I guess that pretty much settles this debate.

Just so you know, I know that but I just said what I said as a joke. Should have put a smiley next to it.Anyway, despite what I said, I did sort of look for a quote, and I am still looking, but on the old official elements topic it listed acid as a non-toa element, like shadow, as the bohrok used them and there was an elemental being made out of it in a vision. Is this still considered true?

Non-Toa ElementsAcid* -- Acid is a low-level element found in Lehvak and an Elemental Being in a vision. This led to the confirmation of its elemental status. This element is strictly non-Toa due to the immoral nature of the element. Other users are thus far non-elemental users.

[bonesiii]

Is this still considered true?

I'm not totally sure, but I think so. It's got a special status, just not sure if that's the label for it.

[DarkLordBane154]

When did Kopaka stun people by painfully freezing them? Was it in a book or something?

[bonesiii]

When did Kopaka stun people by painfully freezing them? Was it in a book or something?

That's not what I said. I was contrasting the alleged painful Shadow Attack with the (presumably not painful) total freezing Kopaka can do. He did that once in MOL (to Tahu who had gone crazy due to Rahkshi poison), and I think at other times. Of course, should a limb snap while frozen, that -would- be painful once they thawed, heh.

[The Iron Toa]

I'm sure it would hurt to be frozen by Kopaka, but no more than it has to. Also, it seems to not be as damaging as in real life, probably because they're biomechanical.

[Podu]

Erm, Shadow could possibly remove all light from the being involved, and since it is commonly associated with evil, I imagine that it would cause intense pain on the target involved.Every good quality you ever had, draining away. All hope, gone. Nothing left but sadness and malicious laughter. In addition to the obvious qualities of turning everything pitch-black and the shadow-hand thing.

Well it doesn't cause just pain.

The now mask-less Toa staggered forward, firing shadow energy from his hands at random. One blast caught Teridax in the shoulder, badly damaging his armor.

This is taken from the Reign of Shadows. Apparently the Shadow blasts can deal physical damage...

[Weba Blamba]

About Psionics being able to achieve flight... Why can't they, instead of pushing themselves off the planet or whatever, why can't they lift themselves up? I mean, like, pick their own body up off the ground with their mind.

[bonesiii]

Erm, Shadow could possibly remove all light from the being involved, and since it is commonly associated with evil, I imagine that it would cause intense pain on the target involved.Every good quality you ever had, draining away. All hope, gone. Nothing left but sadness and malicious laughter. :PIn addition to the obvious qualities of turning everything pitch-black and the shadow-hand thing.

Well it doesn't cause just pain.

The now mask-less Toa staggered forward, firing shadow energy from his hands at random. One blast caught Teridax in the shoulder, badly damaging his armor.

This is taken from the Reign of Shadows. Apparently the Shadow blasts can deal physical damage...

Well, it's already been established that Shadow can move objects, quite violently with the Shadow Hand, so that makes sense. Or it could be the localized freeze damage thing. Or both.

About Psionics being able to achieve flight... Why can't they, instead of pushing themselves off the planet or whatever, why can't they lift themselves up? I mean, like, pick their own body up off the ground with their mind.

That's easy -- this was the original point of my arm analogy. Without pushing off the ground, try to lift yourself by lifting yourself up with your arm. Doesn't work, does it? Because both the base of the arm and the hand are on you. In order for that to work the base of the arm would have to be on the ground or something on it, so it would be pushing off the ground, just with a backwards arm.Since we've already established that the power is programmed so that it couldn't connect with the ground or something connected to it, neither option works. Also, the reason why they can't comes down to the GBs' not wanting them to. If they had wanted them to, they would have enabled pushing off of the ground, or elemental telekinesis without an arm base (like Iron). Why didn't they? Probably to avoid them being overpowered; they can already do several things that risk being so as it is, so yeah.

[The Iron Toa]

Can Matoran turn themselves into Matoran of Shadow by expelling their inner light as the Makuta did? Or if they can't become Shadow Matoran in that sense that way, could an evil Matoran tap into his inner shadow like Roodaka did?

[bonesiii]

I'm not aware that it has been denied. But not sure if it's been directly confirmed either. BS01 says this on the Light page:

Ways have been discovered to completely purge Light from a being, leaving only Shadow to fill the void. The Makuta have done this through deliberate training and meditation. It is possible to do the same with Light, but Light's emotions are much harder to follow than Shadow's, so it has never been done in the Matoran Universe.

This seems to imply that both options are possible for all MU beings.Even if the meditation route isn't possible, they could still willingly ask the Makuta to do it to them, by these methods:

a Shadow Leech, a Kanohi Avsa, or Gorast's stinger.

So indirectly, yes they can. Finding a Makuta to do that might prove extremely difficult, though. It's unlikely anyone would do that.As for Roodaka-style tapping-in, I doubt we can know for sure. There's this line on her page though that seems to connect what she did to what the Makuta did:

Roodaka can tap into her dark side, something she learned through extensive training

Both options seem to involve meditation, whether trained or not, as I interpret this. I think this applies to any MU being, but not really sure.

[The Iron Toa]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't ruled out, but I wanted to make sure. I wonder if Roodaka seems to have more powerful shadow blasts than a Kra-Matoran because she had training/practice or just because she's bigger and has more life force or whatever.

Edited September 10, 2012 by The Iron Toa

[Roki]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't ruled out, but I wanted to make sure. I wonder if Roodaka seems to have more powerful shadow blasts than a Kra-Matoran because she had training/practice or just because she's bigger and has more life force or whatever.

My guess would be a combination of both.Due to shadow matoran being matoran I'd say thier access to their element is inherently limited in comparison to Shadow Toa, and other beings with no such imposed limitations.Especially those trained in shadow manipulation.-Roki

[fishers64]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't ruled out, but I wanted to make sure. I wonder if Roodaka seems to have more powerful shadow blasts than a Kra-Matoran because she had training/practice or just because she's bigger and has more life force or whatever.

My guess would be a combination of both.Due to shadow matoran being matoran I'd say thier access to their element is inherently limited in comparison to Shadow Toa, and other beings with no such imposed limitations.Especially those trained in shadow manipulation.-Roki

Shadow Matoran, however, were controlled by the Makuta as pawns, which make them look minuscule. The storyline interpretation glossed over their powers - they were just shadows compared to the Makuta. Roodaka had her own will, own mind to use, a villain in her own right. So she looks stronger with the shadow even though she may not be. Edited September 13, 2012 by fishers64

[Baron Von Nebula]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't ruled out, but I wanted to make sure. I wonder if Roodaka seems to have more powerful shadow blasts than a Kra-Matoran because she had training/practice or just because she's bigger and has more life force or whatever.

My guess would be a combination of both.Due to shadow matoran being matoran I'd say thier access to their element is inherently limited in comparison to Shadow Toa, and other beings with no such imposed limitations.Especially those trained in shadow manipulation.-Roki

Shadow Matoran, however, were controlled by the Makuta as pawns, which make them look minuscule. The storyline interpretation glossed over their powers - they were just shadows compared to the Roodaka had her own will, own mind to use, a villain in her own right. So she looks stronger with the shadow even though she may not be.

I think, in WoS, Roodaka blasted Keetongu off the side of the Coliseum, something I think a Shadow Matoran would not be able to do so easily.

[Constructelf]

hey, who created the psionics element? I heard that it was fanon turned canon

[Meta-Mind]

It seems to make sense that an already more powerful being who purged herself of Light of her own free will (such as Roodaka) would have more power and skill with her Shadow powers than a forcibly converted Matoran. On the other hand, it could be argued that a forcible drain is somehow more "complete" than a voluntary sacrifice, due to the lack of caution and concern that Shadow Leeches seem to have for their victims.Oh, and while on the topic of Shadow: if a Matoran's inner Light is partially drained, will they be affected like a Toa (meaning they wield both elemental "bonuses," although both are weakened), or will they gain no abilities whatsoever?In a similar vein, do non-formerly-Av-Matoran who are converted into Kra-Matoran gain Shadow powers, or keep their native elemental "bonus?" Considering Kra-Matoran to be a seperate race or subspecies would suggest the former, but Vultraz and Vican (for example) never showed signs of any Shadow powers like the former Av-Matoran.

[bonesiii]

hey, who created the psionics element? I heard that it was fanon turned canon

Erebus. (According to a google search.) But it wasn't fanon. Edited September 13, 2012 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't ruled out, but I wanted to make sure. I wonder if Roodaka seems to have more powerful shadow blasts than a Kra-Matoran because she had training/practice or just because she's bigger and has more life force or whatever.

My guess would be a combination of both.Due to shadow matoran being matoran I'd say thier access to their element is inherently limited in comparison to Shadow Toa, and other beings with no such imposed limitations.Especially those trained in shadow manipulation.-Roki

Shadow Matoran, however, were controlled by the Makuta as pawns, which make them look minuscule. The storyline interpretation glossed over their powers - they were just shadows compared to the Roodaka had her own will, own mind to use, a villain in her own right. So she looks stronger with the shadow even though she may not be.

I think, in WoS, Roodaka blasted Keetongu off the side of the Coliseum, something I think a Shadow Matoran would not be able to do so easily.

Perhaps. But is possible that the force there had little to do with Roodaka's control over shadow as much as that the blast was hurled down a considerable distance on a large building by an irate Vortixx. Vortixx are unquestionably stronger (physically) than Matoran. Also, do Shadow matoran control elemental shadow? As opposed to the non-elemental Roodaka shadow? I imagine elemental shadow to be more potent, so I was wondering...

[Meta-Mind]

Perhaps. But is possible that the force there had little to do with Roodaka's control over shadow as much as that the blast was hurled down a considerable distance on a large building by an irate Vortixx. Vortixx are unquestionably stronger (physically) than Matoran.

I'm not sure if physical strength had much to do with it. Remember that energy bolts can't really be "hurled" in the traditional sense, as they aren't physical objects.

Also, do Shadow matoran control elemental shadow? As opposed to the non-elemental Roodaka shadow? I imagine elemental shadow to be more potent, so I was wondering...

I'm fairly certain that Roodaka's Shadow is elemental, in much the same way as Alternate Teridax's Light is elemental. It has to do with the "balance of Light," I believe. Additionally, Roodaka's Shadow powers are listed as an example of elemental Shadow on BS01 wiki's Shadow page:

Virtually any being of any species can become drained of a portion of their light. Doing so will give the being limited shadow powers.

So I'm fairly sure that Roodaka's Shadow powers are actually elemental, just limited.

[fishers64]

Perhaps. But is possible that the force there had little to do with Roodaka's control over shadow as much as that the blast was hurled down a considerable distance on a large building by an irate Vortixx. Vortixx are unquestionably stronger (physically) than Matoran.

I'm not sure if physical strength had much to do with it. Remember that energy bolts can't really be "hurled" in the traditional sense, as they aren't physical objects.

Also, do Shadow matoran control elemental shadow? As opposed to the non-elemental Roodaka shadow? I imagine elemental shadow to be more potent, so I was wondering...

I'm fairly certain that Roodaka's Shadow is elemental, in much the same way as Alternate Teridax's Light is elemental. It has to do with the "balance of Light," I believe. Additionally, Roodaka's Shadow powers are listed as an example of elemental Shadow on BS01 wiki's Shadow page:

Virtually any being of any species can become drained of a portion of their light. Doing so will give the being limited shadow powers.

So I'm fairly sure that Roodaka's Shadow powers are actually elemental, just limited.

Roodaka can tap into her dark side, something she learned through extensive training, and use it to wield non-elemental Shadow energy from her hands.

Emphasis mine. If there's a conflict within BS01, I'm pretty sure Greg said it as well, but too tired to look it up right now. As for the energy blast hurling thing, I stand corrected.

[onionfarb]

Are there any elements besides fire and stone that is represented by the colors red or yellow?

[fishers64]

Are there any elements besides fire and stone that is represented by the colors red or yellow?

No. There are some that use gold, like light and Psionics, but alas, no yellow or red. Source.

[onionfarb]

Are there any elements besides fire and stone that is represented by the colors red or yellow?

No. There are some that use gold, like light and Psionics, but alas, no yellow or red. Source.

NOOH

[Illuminatus]

So this thought just popped into my head while I was messing with my Takanuva set. When did the prefix "Av" for Light become official? And did anyone in particular suggest it or did Greg just establish it on his own?I'm asking this because... Well, wouldn't "Avo" have been a much better choice? It sounds so much more melodic and eloquent than the stiff "Av", especially when you have to pronounce it in conjunction with another word. Think about it, there's a reason no other prefix ends with a consonant. Can you imagine if "Onu" was named "On" instead?Or perhaps Lightning can be "Avo"?

[bonesiii]

Why would lightning be Avo?Avohkii was the name for the mask of life in 2003. I don't recall how soon after that Av-Matoran was established, but it was established by the start of 2008 at the latest. Probably much earlier.I don't see how Av-Matoran doesn't flow well. I like it.It's a soft consonant; how is that stiff? Maybe that's just me, but IMO it's a rule that all prefixes are two letters unless the two letters alone would sound silly in English. If this wasn't fiction, there would be no real reason that On-Matoran wouldn't work, in fact. (Unless we theorize that "On" means something else in Matoran.) Since Av doesn't have that problem, why complicate it?

[Meta-Mind]

Why would lightning be Avo?

I believe that he was referring to the Avokah, sentient lightning beings. I personally think that their name referenced the element of Light, though.As for Av-, it came from the Avokhii, for the same reason it's commonly believed that Kra is the prefix for Shadow (since Kraata, the Krakhaan, and a few other Shadow-associated entities begin with Kra). Edited October 3, 2012 by Meta-Mind