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Maybe Leave The Serials To Some One Else?


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As confusing as the serials are, I sort of want them to end, and end with a good story.I know that Greg is busy (I don't know the details though) but maybe he could hand them over to some very good fan writers? or something.Obviously there are copyright issues, but it's not like Lego plans on bringing this back.

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The thing is, even if Lego isn't planning to bring the brand back anytime soon (and let's be realistic here: they're not), they'll want to maintain control over as much of the IP as possible. In the past fan works were "canonized", but I don't believe those were ever officially placed on any Lego-owned site, and they were overseen by Greg.If Lego really wanted to continue the serials without Greg's involvement, they would have to find someone within the company or a professional freelance writer to do so. If they really wanted to have fans write it, they would have to write up contracts for fans to sign over the rights to those works to Lego. None of these options is worth the time or money to the company.

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The only way that the serials are going to realistically continue would be if Greg returned. As has been mentioned, it's not exactly on the top of his priority list as 1) it's not his offspring and 2) he's not making money off of it. It's realism, but there you go. That's life.I don't foresee them handing off the half-baked serials to some other person for completion, even if it's another writer that they've hired. Again, there's no money that they're making off of the serials, so it's basically what gets updated in Greg's free time, and Greg hasn't had any free time.

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As much as you say they have no free time, they do. They simply don't care. (Sad truth, right?) They don't care anymore. They spend their free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars. The rest is spent planning other lines and depending on their company position, either oversleeping or undersleeping.

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The only way that the serials are going to realistically continue would be if Greg returned. As has been mentioned, it's not exactly on the top of his priority list as 1) it's not his offspring and 2) he's not making money off of it. It's realism, but there you go. That's life.I don't foresee them handing off the half-baked serials to some other person for completion, even if it's another writer that they've hired. Again, there's no money that they're making off of the serials, so it's basically what gets updated in Greg's free time, and Greg hasn't had any free time.

Sadly, it's like Sumiki said. You know, money talks.
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I don't reckon we can expect anything anymore. It's a shame Greg chose to start those serials, but they're not going to be finished. Best thing to do, if you're not prepared to abandon BIONICLE as a theme, is to just stick to fan BIONICLE works, if possible, away from any of the ending unfinished storyline. So I would recommend the Expanded Multiverse. :)

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In addition to the points others have made, I think handing the serials off to someone else would be a bad idea. Say what you want about them (I don't even read them myself), but Greg likely has a vision of where they're going and how he wants them to end. To convey all that to a new writer and hope they do right by it would be almost as much work for Greg as writing them himself, in addition to being riskier. Whether or not Greg ever finishes the serials, he's not going to want to forfeit creative control of what is essentially his own story.And in all honesty, if a fanwriter wants to pick up where the serials left off, there's no one stopping them. They don't need the force of canon behind them, and if their continuation is good enough the fans will accept it as the closest we have to closure.

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Maybe a different professional writer, but definitely not one of us. Otherwise, we'll get another Bionicle Next Generation or Rebirth Chronicles scenario.

Thank you, BZPower staff. In the past, I wish I showed more appreciation for all that you do. From one Bionicle fan to another, thank you.

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Let's get Cathy Hapka back. ;D We've missed her so.

Please, please tell me that was sarcasm. Cathy Hapka totally botched the Mask of Light adaptation novel, and if it weren't for Greg's writing I never would have kept reading after that.

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Let's get Cathy Hapka back. ;D We've missed her so.

Please, please tell me that was sarcasm. Cathy Hapka totally botched the Mask of Light adaptation novel, and if it weren't for Greg's writing I never would have kept reading after that.
That's not sarcasm on my part anyway. Seriously, I loved Hapka's writing. There was a lot more emotion passing through the characters and though the writing was simple, I still very much enjoyed the new concepts (Shadow Toa battle? Tahu getting attacked by a swarm of scorpions that sting into his body? KOPAKA, TAHU AND GALI LOVE TRIANGLE?! My word those days were good. XP). Though, I don't think Hapka would be up for taking on such a twisted story. So much happened with Bionicle; it's got more twists and turns than a Professor Layton block puzzle (and not the fewest possible turns either). Honestly, I'm pretty much over the canon story. I have been since around '07 when the story just stopped being as interesting. Greg has had some impressive writing, though I can't say I'm a fan of all of his work in Bionicle (not that I'm trying to be snobby or anything. You know what, saying that lines always makes you look like a total snob. So yes, I am being a total snob. I say, these hors d'oeuvres are simply awful. Who ever heard of caviar with something so pedestrian as Tabasco sauce (The italics mean disdain, for the record). I say it's almost as horrible as taking away Kongu's toa tool. How neanderthal!).Anyway, the point is I just didn't find the serials interesting past a certain point, so I'm fine with them slowly and painfully drifting off into the abyss where they shall fade from all memory and consciousness never to be brought into the canon ever again. Because that's where fanfiction comes in, baby, and boy is it awesome! Seriously, I may not constantly read Bionicle fics, but I love how people are still coming up with stuff. The ones I've read aren't half bad, too. Aside from the ones that center around Kopaka that is. Besides, the Mahri are drone zombie servants to some freaky lizard thingy, Ms. Shocky sparks and the fabulous male toa who isn't female are fighting off some strange alien tribal hunter things and meanwhile some old coot painted himself as a robot dude and is all "EVIL PLOT! EVIL PLOT!" not to mention a lot of the cool characters are dead like squid-thing and the tyrant who's all "My rocks turn you to stone, LOL" and not to mention there's a freaking shadow dragon in the story that HAS YET TO DO ANYTHING OF IMPORTANCE.Not for nothing guys, but I honestly think the story just ending and leaving the rest to fan fiction would be a good thing. Heck, I've been a fan since the beginning and I still can't keep up with a fraction of what happened in the story.

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Let's get Cathy Hapka back. ;D We've missed her so.

Please, please tell me that was sarcasm. Cathy Hapka totally botched the Mask of Light adaptation novel, and if it weren't for Greg's writing I never would have kept reading after that.
That's not sarcasm on my part anyway. Seriously, I loved Hapka's writing. There was a lot more emotion passing through the characters and though the writing was simple, I still very much enjoyed the new concepts (Shadow Toa battle? Tahu getting attacked by a swarm of scorpions that sting into his body? KOPAKA, TAHU AND GALI LOVE TRIANGLE?! My word those days were good. XP).
Actually, the Shadow To a battle was Greg's idea. And the way the Toa Mata were SUPPOSED to beat them was to absorb the Shadow Toa into their essence. But Cathy decided to rely on one of the oldest cliches - attack the one that isn't you.

 

 

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Actually, the Shadow To a battle was Greg's idea. And the way the Toa Mata were SUPPOSED to beat them was to absorb the Shadow Toa into their essence. But Cathy decided to rely on one of the oldest cliches - attack the one that isn't you.

I'd like an official record for that before I take your word for it. And even then I still like the battle the way it is. Is it cliche? Maybe. However we're talking about a children's story here. It's not good if it gets too complex. If I read a story where they absorbed the shadow toa, I would be majorly confused. "What happened to the shadow toa? Are they still alive? Does this mean the toa are now part Makuta? Can Makuta now control them? Can they shoot shadow? What about Tahu because he's the fire dude and fire gives off light?" ...etc. Cathy had the right idea as an author to keep things relatively simple. It's good to know your audience, and the target audience of Bionicle were typically kids. Adding on a pile of dramatic webs spiraling out of control is why the series ended in the first place.

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Actually, the Shadow To a battle was Greg's idea. And the way the Toa Mata were SUPPOSED to beat them was to absorb the Shadow Toa into their essence. But Cathy decided to rely on one of the oldest cliches - attack the one that isn't you.

I'd like an official record for that before I take your word for it. And even then I still like the battle the way it is. Is it cliche? Maybe. However we're talking about a children's story here. It's not good if it gets too complex. If I read a story where they absorbed the shadow toa, I would be majorly confused. "What happened to the shadow toa? Are they still alive? Does this mean the toa are now part Makuta? Can Makuta now control them? Can they shoot shadow? What about Tahu because he's the fire dude and fire gives off light?" ...etc. Cathy had the right idea as an author to keep things relatively simple. It's good to know your audience, and the target audience of Bionicle were typically kids. Adding on a pile of dramatic webs spiraling out of control is why the series ended in the first place.
Thought it ended due to revenue loss...?Anyway, I think either interpretation has its pros and cons; Farshtey's version has a darker touch to it in that the Toa were forced to accept that even they themselves had a dark side, plus it ties in well to the later story because of the whole "inner light and shadow" concept, while Hapka's version promotes unity which is more in-line with Bionicle's message, and it IS simpler (although I don't find the absrption scenario to be all that confusing; Makuta can manipulate darkness, Makuta manifests the darkness inside the Toa, Toa realize that it is simply a part of them and are enlightened (lolpun)).Frankly, I prefer Farshtey's, but that's because I'm a fan of darker concepts. Edited by XyzTheDay!
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Adding on a pile of dramatic webs spiraling out of control is why the series ended in the first place.

Thought it ended due to revenue loss...?

Both are correct. It's generally agreed (based on various information) that Bionicle's profits ceased to grow from around 2005 onwards, whilst the storyline had expanded to the point where very few Lego employees could fully understand and work with it.

Actually, the Shadow Toa battle was Greg's idea.

I'd like an official record for that before I take your word for it.

If memory serves, the Shadow Toa were originally intended to be the climactic opponents in the long-lost PC game, The Legend of Mata Nui. The final confrontation with Makuta was featured over in the MNOLG. How the Shadow Toa were originally meant to be defeated wasn't, isn't and never will be known, due to the PC game's cancellation.A year or so later, Hapka included them as the final challenge in her first book (in the same way as the PC game would've), with their defeat resulting from the Toa each facing the Shadow Toa most vulnerable to their element. At some point, Farshtey came up with a differing version in which the Toa absorbed their darker imitations into themselves.Ultimately, it's unclear and probably impossible to say which (if either) solution was the original, or if there was ever an original at all. It simply comes down to individual preference.Personally I think Hapka's version is somehow a little more in the practical spirit of 2001. Also, as has been pointed out, it's simple and self-explanatory, whereas Farshtey's raises a lot of questions for which the story wouldn't have time or opportunity to answer. Edited by Sir Kohran
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Thanks for your input, Sir Kohran. ^^ Checking with BS01 those explanations appear to be accurate. And where I was coming from with the confusion wasn't with my current self, but my nine year old self who would be reading the book for the first time. After all, that version of me would be the target audience at the time and knowing me, I'd be speculating the absorption version into oblivion. XD But then again, that's just me. XP

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As much as you say they have no free time, they do. They simply don't care. (Sad truth, right?) They don't care anymore. They spend their free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars. The rest is spent planning other lines and depending on their company position, either oversleeping or undersleeping.

I hope you don't mean Greg, because he has a very young infant to deal with. Try doing that while having to hear about hordes of people complain about the fact you aren't continuing a story that you aren't getting paid for, and you're only doing because you love the story. Even if he told us that he really doesn't have time because he needs to care for his kid, someone here will complain he's just being lazy and that he has time for that. No, if he had the time, he would write, but he has something much more important then the story to deal with. He's not just "spending his free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars"That's not even bringing up that fact he has his job with Lego, which doesn't involve BIONICLE, writing for Ninjago.If you mean Lego, they don't have to care. They don't make BIONICLE sets anymore, so they don't exactly care what happens. Individual members within the company might, but in all aspects, why care for a toyline that's been dead for two years?(sorry if that sounds bitter or mean, I'm not trying to make it that way)

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As much as you say they have no free time, they do. They simply don't care. (Sad truth, right?) They don't care anymore. They spend their free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars. The rest is spent planning other lines and depending on their company position, either oversleeping or undersleeping.

I hope you don't mean Greg, because he has a very young infant to deal with. Try doing that while having to hear about hordes of people complain about the fact you aren't continuing a story that you aren't getting paid for, and you're only doing because you love the story. Even if he told us that he really doesn't have time because he needs to care for his kid, someone here will complain he's just being lazy and that he has time for that. No, if he had the time, he would write, but he has something much more important then the story to deal with. He's not just "spending his free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars"That's not even bringing up that fact he has his job with Lego, which doesn't involve BIONICLE, writing for Ninjago.If you mean Lego, they don't have to care. They don't make BIONICLE sets anymore, so they don't exactly care what happens. Individual members within the company might, but in all aspects, why care for a toyline that's been dead for two years?(sorry if that sounds bitter or mean, I'm not trying to make it that way)
I mean Lego. And I know, mine also sounded bitter and mean. I am no pessimist, but...it does annoy me to no end. The company exists to make money, not happy fans.

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I am no pessimist, but...it does annoy me to no end. The company exists to make money, not happy fans.

Can I qualify that and say "happy Bionicle fans"? Because usually, in the entertainment industry happy fans is a strong contributor to those fans spending money, and you making more of it, no?
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I am no pessimist, but...it does annoy me to no end. The company exists to make money, not happy fans.

Can I qualify that and say "happy Bionicle fans"? Because usually, in the entertainment industry happy fans is a strong contributor to those fans spending money, and you making more of it, no?
Well, if they make money and the fans aren't happy, but they still get money...But yeah. You're still right.

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I am no pessimist, but...it does annoy me to no end. The company exists to make money, not happy fans.

Can I qualify that and say "happy Bionicle fans"? Because usually, in the entertainment industry happy fans is a strong contributor to those fans spending money, and you making more of it, no?
Well, if they make money and the fans aren't happy, but they still get money...But yeah. You're still right.
If there was a way to get money independent of fans, it would be in a different industry, like cow herding or something. :)Now Lego has a method of making money independent of Bionicle fans, and it is called Hero Factory fans and Ninjago fans...thus, no money to Bionicle serials. :( Grim economics. Edited by fishers64
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Adding on a pile of dramatic webs spiraling out of control is why the series ended in the first place.

Thought it ended due to revenue loss...?

Both are correct. It's generally agreed (based on various information) that Bionicle's profits ceased to grow from around 2005 onwards, whilst the storyline had expanded to the point where very few Lego employees could fully understand and work with it.
The issue was never about LEGO employees not understanding it. The issue was that potential buyers didn't understand it, which in turn was one contributor to the profit losses.

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As much as you say they have no free time, they do. They simply don't care. (Sad truth, right?) They don't care anymore. They spend their free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars. The rest is spent planning other lines and depending on their company position, either oversleeping or undersleeping.

I hope you don't mean Greg, because he has a very young infant to deal with. Try doing that while having to hear about hordes of people complain about the fact you aren't continuing a story that you aren't getting paid for, and you're only doing because you love the story. Even if he told us that he really doesn't have time because he needs to care for his kid, someone here will complain he's just being lazy and that he has time for that. No, if he had the time, he would write, but he has something much more important then the story to deal with. He's not just "spending his free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars"That's not even bringing up that fact he has his job with Lego, which doesn't involve BIONICLE, writing for Ninjago.If you mean Lego, they don't have to care. They don't make BIONICLE sets anymore, so they don't exactly care what happens. Individual members within the company might, but in all aspects, why care for a toyline that's been dead for two years?(sorry if that sounds bitter or mean, I'm not trying to make it that way)
You know, you guys say that he has to take care of his kid and all that, but I've seen lots of much busier parents raise kids well and continue with their lives. More likely, Greg and Lego decided there's no way they can profit from all this, so they gave it the axe.

Thank you, BZPower staff. In the past, I wish I showed more appreciation for all that you do. From one Bionicle fan to another, thank you.

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As much as you say they have no free time, they do. They simply don't care. (Sad truth, right?) They don't care anymore. They spend their free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars. The rest is spent planning other lines and depending on their company position, either oversleeping or undersleeping.

I hope you don't mean Greg, because he has a very young infant to deal with. Try doing that while having to hear about hordes of people complain about the fact you aren't continuing a story that you aren't getting paid for, and you're only doing because you love the story. Even if he told us that he really doesn't have time because he needs to care for his kid, someone here will complain he's just being lazy and that he has time for that. No, if he had the time, he would write, but he has something much more important then the story to deal with. He's not just "spending his free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars"That's not even bringing up that fact he has his job with Lego, which doesn't involve BIONICLE, writing for Ninjago.If you mean Lego, they don't have to care. They don't make BIONICLE sets anymore, so they don't exactly care what happens. Individual members within the company might, but in all aspects, why care for a toyline that's been dead for two years?(sorry if that sounds bitter or mean, I'm not trying to make it that way)
You know, you guys say that he has to take care of his kid and all that, but I've seen lots of much busier parents raise kids well and continue with their lives. More likely, Greg and Lego decided there's no way they can profit from all this, so they gave it the axe.
It's a combination of the two, most likely. Greg still works for LEGO on actual, profitable lines, so he does have a lack of free time. And he's going to want to spend as much of that as possible on family. Greg had already known when he took this on that this would be a side project that wouldn't end in him being paid. Did he make a promise he couldn't keep? Maybe. But I can't fault him for that, since I know plenty of people have enough stress in their actual jobs and families without having to deal with an unpaid side job appeasing a rabid, often-seemingly-unpleasable fandom.I just wish he hadn't cut off most ties with the LEGO fan community. Early on in Ninjago's run there were reports that the website would feature a new Ask Greg. That never turned up, so I guess he didn't want to deal with the pressure of fan interaction anymore.

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As much as you say they have no free time, they do. They simply don't care. (Sad truth, right?) They don't care anymore. They spend their free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars. The rest is spent planning other lines and depending on their company position, either oversleeping or undersleeping.

I hope you don't mean Greg, because he has a very young infant to deal with. Try doing that while having to hear about hordes of people complain about the fact you aren't continuing a story that you aren't getting paid for, and you're only doing because you love the story. Even if he told us that he really doesn't have time because he needs to care for his kid, someone here will complain he's just being lazy and that he has time for that. No, if he had the time, he would write, but he has something much more important then the story to deal with. He's not just "spending his free time eating donuts and possibly going to bars"That's not even bringing up that fact he has his job with Lego, which doesn't involve BIONICLE, writing for Ninjago.If you mean Lego, they don't have to care. They don't make BIONICLE sets anymore, so they don't exactly care what happens. Individual members within the company might, but in all aspects, why care for a toyline that's been dead for two years?(sorry if that sounds bitter or mean, I'm not trying to make it that way)
You know, you guys say that he has to take care of his kid and all that, but I've seen lots of much busier parents raise kids well and continue with their lives. More likely, Greg and Lego decided there's no way they can profit from all this, so they gave it the axe.
It's a combination of the two, most likely. Greg still works for LEGO on actual, profitable lines, so he does have a lack of free time. And he's going to want to spend as much of that as possible on family. Greg had already known when he took this on that this would be a side project that wouldn't end in him being paid. Did he make a promise he couldn't keep? Maybe. But I can't fault him for that, since I know plenty of people have enough stress in their actual jobs and families without having to deal with an unpaid side job appeasing a rabid, often-seemingly-unpleasable fandom.I just wish he hadn't cut off most ties with the LEGO fan community. Early on in Ninjago's run there were reports that the website would feature a new Ask Greg. That never turned up, so I guess he didn't want to deal with the pressure of fan interaction anymore.
That was COPPA. That was completely out of his control.

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I once entertained the thought of Greg bringing coming on and giving it to a team of people, likely on BZP, whom he thought would provide the best ending, After that, Greg could just come on, look at the story, and give it his seal of approval (if he felt it was deserving of it) and then it solves some problems. It saves Greg time (in theory), closes loose plot ends, and ends the story.However I am sure there is something too it that is not practical or some formality (the thing about "Greg's Approval was my idea to bypass the whole lego license thing.

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I'll be honest, I'm bored of the seriels too, they aren't moving. I don't blame Greg for the stuff in his life.Right now, since no more cannon story for the near future, I think the works WE should do is stil writel fanfics of our self mocs or do stories in the future of the lore. I sti think there is a slight chance there is an update but we all know no one works on a dead thin without gettin paid, that's the real world today.

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For me I feel as though Greg should have just said "I can't make them anymore" instead of not saying anything at all and letting it die slowly. I've been a fan of the series ever since it's beginning and I just can't help but feel sad that the last parts of the universe can't be resolved. I'm also disappointed that money is such a demanding and unforgivable force in the world.

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The company exists to make money, not happy fans.
I just want to say that it's up to you to choose happiness or not. No matter how much of anything you get in life, you can always choose whether to be satisfied with what you have or always demand more more more, making yourself miserable.I'm sure LEGO wants everybody to be happy, but sometimes people choose to be unhappy no matter what you do. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done a better job with the ending or what came after; my point is, if anyone reading this really does think your happiness is dependent on what others do, maybe you should seriously rethink that. :)And really, I think LEGO does indeed exist to make happy kids. But there comes a time when certain individuals confuse themselves, especially when they're no longer kids, with "fans" or "target audience" etc. and think that to please them, LEGO must ignore the new generations of kids and personally please them from cradle to grave. But sorry, it's a toy company, it's for kids. LEGO can't age with us, whether the goal is money or making happy fans, because that would mean less happy fans overall. :)Yes, they could have done a little bit more, but let's face it, they did ten years of BIonicle and if anybody isn't satisfied with that, there's probably no satisfying those people.As for this topic question, unfortunately I don't see how it's possible, since Greg can't read fanfics. He would have no way to know who is a good writer or not. Fans can make our own continuations if you like, though, and if enough readers like a particular person's attempt at it they very well might headcanon it. Myself, I prefer to focus on the ten-year plot for fanfics or other possibilities such as the Expanded Multiverse rather than try to guestimate how Greg would have ended a story. After all, despite all the dire predictions posted and reposted over and over here, you never really know that Greg won't someday come back and finish them.I, for one, put no deadline on him. At no point will I say "why are you continuing now after this long delay?" I myself tend to delay projects I do for this long and much longer; time has limits, I get it. And I'm eager for more, if it's possible, however long it takes. ^_^ Edited by bonesiii

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If he already knew he wouldn't be able to end the series, why even bother putting time into it in the first place?
Personally I think he did it to say thanks for being there during those ten years or maybe give fans an ended they may have wanted. He could have also maybe wanted to tie up some loose ends that were causing the story problems. That is a good question though.On topic I don't think anyone other than Greg should write the serials. While I have said he was a sub par writer he does the Bionicle universe better than most and I do believe he has a plan in mind for the direction the serials will go. I will admit the delay is a bit frustrating but we need to be patient with Greg.

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Personally, I like things being kind of "official". Like I don't like reading fan fiction that directly connects to the BIONICLE story because 1) it could conflict with the original BIONICLE story or other fan fiction and 2) Its just not, well, official. I like the officialness of it. Personally, if someone wrote a good piece of fan fiction continuing on the BIONICLe story and it was greatly excepted by the BIONICLE community as something "official" I'd be happy. LEGO doesn't have to officially accept it into the official(how many times have i used that word?) storyline, it could just be thought of by fans as the normal BIONICLE story. I hope that makes sense. And thank you for making this topic, it's really bugged me that the story hasn't continued. I'm very interested in the gold-skinned being and would love to know more about it. Also apparently(correct me if i'm wrong) according to the Faber Files the BIONICLE story was supposed to take place in 2011 on the jungle planet (can't remember it's name)I just looked on the Faber Files though and I couldn't find the post I got this information from O.o)

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Well you aren't wrong vamprah, it was intended to last longer, or at least greg wanted it to or something. Lego however, said no, and said that it needed to finish in 2010 because they wanted to bring in new ideas. If I'm wrong on some things of what I said, oh well. Point is, Greg still writes the story, however he is a dad, he works, and he has to take care of his kid. This isnt a paying job to write the serials, it's kinda like a thank you to us and a way to tie it up. We could potentially see another update, maybe in late 2012 or later, however we as fans must wait, don't bug him, and keep moving an doing our fanstuff, be it fanfics or fan art, we as fans must wait and appreciate that Greg is doing the serials. We have no clue when the update is, but we have to wait.Meanwhile, I'm working on BIONICLE: Rebellion, which takes place in the future. Aside from that, we have guys like Tohkann making BIONICLE: Rebirth Chronicles, and BZPower to chat and show our fandom. We have Ninjago and even Hero Factory to keep us busy as we wait. And also, Greg is writing Ninjago, so there is another reason why he has not made an update. We just gotta keep on Holding On, and Ride forever.

"Literature adds to reality, it does not simply describe it. It enriches the necessary competencies that daily life requires and provides; and in this respect, it irrigates the deserts that our lives have already become,"-C.S. Lewis


 


 


 

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