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Okay, I can't stay away for long. Curse me and my...me-ness.Anyway, can't we just say the Makuta is Makuta? The Diabolical Chessmaster? The David Xanatos? The one who always knows more than everyone? He has a plan. In some sort or another. Analyzing him is like looking into the face of Super Death.

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I'm still getting flipfloping and mixed messages here.Tanuka's been studying these for years and doing nothing else. From my perspective it rings true. i don't see anyone else translating dead languages.Does this line ring a bell to anyone?In the time before time, the Great Spirit descended from the heavens, carrying we, the ones called Matoran, to this island paradise. We were separate and without purpose, so the Great Spirit blessed us with three virtues: unity, duty, and destiny. We embraced these gifts and, in gratitude, we named our island home Mata-Nui, after the Great Spirit himself.But our happiness was not to last. Mata-Nui's brother, Makuta, was jealous of these honors and betrayed him. Makuta cast a spell over Mata-Nui, who fell into a deep slumber. Makuta's power dominated the land, as fields withered away, sunlight grew cold, and ancient values were forgotten.The Makuta as we know him from 2001 was jealous of Mata-Nui and the honors give to him. This implies he wanted those honors and worship for himself. Until he got them, he was going to make the Matoran's lives as miserable as possible and needed Mata-Nui out of the way so Mata-Nui would not interfere.

The BZPRPG's Makuta is not Makuta as we know him, though; really, even Mata Nui isn't the Mata Nui with which most of us fans are familiar. If we free ourselves from those restrictions, we can open a new can of worms list of interpretations for those two paragraphs.Option One: Makuta was jealous of Mata Nui and wanted Mata Nui's honor for himself. This occured in canon.Option Two: Mata Nui was flawed, and so Makuta took him down and attempted to replace him himself. This didn't work because Makuta too was flawed, and so the island of Mata Nui fell into corruption.Option Three (A.K.A. That Option That Legolover Finds Very Logical): Mata Nui gave the Matoran peace and happiness. However, Makuta foretold a dark future, perhaps some enemy the Matoran of Mata Nui would have to face; knowing Mata Nui would not listen, Makuta cast Mata Nui into slumber and took over, leaving the island of Mata Nui under chaos so its citizens would become used to a violent atmosphere and thus be prepared when the dark menace Makuta foretold would finally come.The above three options are just the proverbial tip of the iceberg. I'm not here to guess the ending prematurely; I'm here to anticipate it, adapt my characters accordingly, and hope I've prepared them enough to survive this RPG's ending.
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I heard that in John Cleese's voice, Hubert.But I agree with you, LL. Not only must we be open to all the possibilities and the possibility that our ideas are wrong, but also cannot have preconceived notions about the Makuta. And your point on RPing at the end strikes home, too.In other news, my plot is almost ready to be unveiled. Bwahaha. :)

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Last I checked nobody knew Makuta's plan until he had succeeded in it, least of all the Matoran and Turaga. That is, take over an entire universe by literally shoving the universe's God into a mask and launching it into space and replacing him.To say we can only be totally non-canon or only be "everything is too far-fetched" is like saying there should be only one genre of movies or only one food group. You need diversity. Just play. :P-Snipe

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My lord, that was a lot of reading to do. I love to see this kind of discussion, even though I have undebatable answers to the questions y'all are asking.Okay, Kalama, you're repeating yourself even as others answer your points. You've certainly made a lot of arguments - more than I can address in one post, and again, if you want individual questions answered, I will gladly provide my rationales for the "inconsistencies" you find if you'll point them out to me - but the main problem you seem to have with the story and world of the game is this:

You are still sending me mixed messages.I'm getting a "You can't do that because it's too far fetched and doesn't fit the BIONICLE story."I'm also getting a "This isn't canon so we can do what we want."

Somebody else already said this, but since you didn't regard their words as definitive, I will say them myself. This isn't the BIONICLE story of 2001, nor is it the real world. The setting and conditions of the BZPRPG world are something of their own; while being similar in many ways to Mata Nui as we knew it in 2001, our island is NOT Mata Nui in 2001. But not being the canon Mata Nui does not automatically make this an infinitely flexible world without any limits or parallels to it. The BZPRPG is somewhere in the middle between these extremes you seem to find incompatible, and where in the middle it lies is determined by staff decision.About Makuta and his motives, EW has it spot-on; he's a barely-defined and omnipresent darkness, and because so little about him is known, his motives are similarly murky. Makuta is neither reasonable nor comprehensible at this point (if he even is, at all); appearances of insanity or stupidity on his part, if you think of him that way, are more complex than they appear. He isn't the Makuta of 2001; there isn't any way for you to know what he wants, because his desires may very well differ drastically from those of the canon Makuta.You brought up the point about the populations of the Koros again to defend your arguments. I told you already the absolute answer to that question; you can perform as many calculations as you want, but that won't do anything to change the population of the island. Again, our Mata Nui lines up with neither the canon Mata Nui nor the real world in this instance. There aren't as many matoran on the island as existed in the 2001 storyline, nor are there as many as your military logic dictates should be; there are between 1,500 and 2,000 matoran on the island, NPC or not, and that's simply a staff-determined fact that you must accept. You earlier made a list of "facts" and reasons and the like. I will dissect these now to clear the air and explain why these points you've made are or are not correct.FIRST LIST

Plothole: Makuta has not subjugated the island and called it a day.Nuju's answer: You don't know if that's what his ultimate goal is. I've already explained why this is.Problem: Makuta has proven he is capable of subjugating the island on a whim. Why hasn't he?Nuju's answer: We know that the matoran amuse him to a degree; among his more mysterious reasons, I'd imagine that this god-complex and his arrogance that he can destroy the island whenever he wants are contributing factors to the lack of urgency in his actions.Fact: Makuta wants the Matoran alive to worship him.Nuju's answer: How would you know that he wants that?Fact: Matoran will defend themselves if attacked.Nuju's answer: Absolutely.Fact: Rahkshi are numerous and can kill Toa.Nuju's answer: Yes. We don't know how many Rahkshi Makuta has made at this point, but we can safely assume he has ple-enty.Fact: Rahkshi are loose on the island.Nuju's answer: Not really true. We haven't seen them en masse, nor have we seen many (if any) individuals of late.Fact: If the Matoran resist, they will be killed.Nuju's answer: Quite - that's warfare.Reason: If there are too many Matoran killed, Makuta will fail in his goal of subjugating them. Dead slaves are no good to anyone.Nuju's answer: Who says he wants slaves? You're building your argument on the fallacy that you understand Makuta and what he wants.Reason: If there are too few Matoran, the Rahkshi can easily sweep aside the guard and subjugate the village.Nuju's answer: Yes, you're right. The Rahkshi could subjugate the matoran of the Koros easily if they were given the order, I'd imagine.Reason: If the population was big enough, they can resist the Rahkshi despite taking losses. Makuta would order them to stand down to avoid killing too many Matoran.Nuju's answer: The matoran couldn't resist the Rahkshi because they are too few and too weak. The Rahkshi haven't been ordered to stand down, per se, but instead seem to be waiting in reserve.Pre-solution reasoning: The population must be big enough to support a large enough force that would make the Makuta balk.Nuju's answer: Makuta doesn't balk at the matoran population. If anything is seen as a threat by him, it's the beings of power and skill on the island, such as Toa and Skakdi, and even those don't scare him, so arrogant is he.Solution: Makuta is working toward a bloodless victory to avoid massive bloodshed and losing too many future worshipers. in the meantime he pressures the villages with Rahi and Rahkshi to keep the fear in everyone while working in the dark to seize his total and bloodless victory.Nuju's final refution: Makuta doesn't seek victory of that kind. If he wanted total dominance of the sort you describe, he would have it already.

SECOND LIST

Fact: Advanced forging technquies are available thanks to Ta-Koro.Nuju's answer: "Advanced" is a little far to say. They can make blades and probably simple machine parts, but nothing fancy.Fact: Weaving techiques and advanced shipbuilding techiques are praticed in Ga-Koro.Nuju's answer: Yes, this is true.Fact: Metals such as iron and bronze are likely mined from Onu-Koro since the village is in essance, one giant mining operation.Nuju's answer: Untrue. Onu-Koro, like all other villages on the island, is primarily a place of residence for matoran. Mining is a profession many do, but they do it on a small scale, as metals aren't much required by the other Koros in large quantities.Fact: Advanced carving techques are avalible in Po-Koro.Nuju's answer: In the way of stone, this is true. It's more a decorative art than anything, though.Fact: Most weapons and armor are of the forged variety.Nuju's answer: Armor comes on the beings of the BIONICLE world automatically, as it's part of their anatomy, and weapons are generally either premade artifacts or simply put together bamboo spears and the like.Fact: Projectile weapons are slowly coming into use thanks to the Vortixx.Nuju's answer: By foreigners, yes, this is true, but none of them have ways to replicate their technology, because that's against the rules.Tech level assessment: High Iron Age with the beginnings of the Italian Renaissance.Nuju's assessment: Mata Nui tech level is Mata Nui tech level - can't be defined in historic examples. This is one way we do adhere to the 2001-2003 island - if you can't picture it having existed easily in MNOLG or an animation from that time, it doesn't belong.

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Just for information, I'm reactivating a couple of chars who have fallen into inactivity. They have just posted a sign in Le-koro.

Matan & Natan - Engineers

Tinkers, crafters and weaponsmiths.

For all types of machines, hand crafted weapons and armour restoration.

Wood and metal objects a speciality.

Enquire inside.

I've noticed a lot of characters have been getting a bit worse for wear lately - crushed armour, dented weapons etc. If you need repairs or a custom built request, these two are your beings.

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I heard that in John Cleese's voice, Hubert.But I agree with you, LL. Not only must we be open to all the possibilities and the possibility that our ideas are wrong, but also cannot have preconceived notions about the Makuta. And your point on RPing at the end strikes home, too.In other news, my plot is almost ready to be unveiled. Bwahaha. :)

I am honoured that you have decided to read my writing using the great John Cleese's voice.Anyway, so your plot is about to be unveiled? Where is it going to be taking place?
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On an unrelated note, how many people would be interested in being a part of a group of highly skilled comic relief villains. Because if there are enough people who want to I might start one.

I'd be interested in that. I was just thinking of making someone like that the other day, in fact.:t::b::3:

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Ah, good job, nuju!Hopefully kalama will listen to what he didn't listen to before becausde this time it's a staff member.and also, in kalama's second list, your answer doesn't state if there is any iron, bronze, etc. as kalama thinks there is and would be mined. are there such metals in the bzprpg? this hasn't been cleared up before.

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*Suddenly. Facepalms. THOUSANDS OF THEM.*Okay so you're still confusing me Nuju.Are we or are we not still using real world comparisons to fill in the gaps such as the comparisons between human and Matoran anatomy? You've already made that declaration to treat them similar meaning that while their skin can be a natural armor, it can be cut and Matoran can bleed. Many characters are already wearing some kind of armor over that natural armor that can't be cut as easily and protect the more 'softer' armor that is the 'skin' is it not?I don't see why we can't apply that thinking to other aspects as well such as population to land mass considerations, Matoran Social Life, and tech level.If this isn't related to any part of the BIONICLE story then where are we drawing comparisons from? By all rights this game shouldn't even be here and probably belongs in the Completely Off Topic section if we're going to utilize that thinking. Does or does not the backstory confirm that the entire Quest for the Masks canon 2001 storyline play out the same way it did in canon up until the final battle with the Makuta AND THEN the timeline splits off before moving on to the 2002 Borhok Swarms while we play in the split off time stream?I'm pretty sure that means we're dealing with 2001 Great Spirit Makuta here so I have no clue what you guys are going on about.It's been a hundred years since the Battle of the Kini-Nui and subsequently, the release of the Rahkshi. I think there have been plenty enough Rahkshi attacks in that time to confirm the existence of each breed of Rahkshi at least once. After all, NPCs are only supposed to appear when it's convenient right?I'm glad you see the problem in if Makuta could go for an easy victory by sweeping aside such a small force and would have done so. That's the point I was trying to make. We have already established that because of the game backstory, we are dealing with 2001 Makuta.Or at least, I am.

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What you are dealing with is irrelevant. The staff decides what we are dealing with. Like I said above, this story has elements of both canon and non-canon. In some places, the two are identical. In others, like the matter of Makuta, they are completely different. This story diverges from the canon in places, sometimes dramatically. The rahkshi on this island are not the six rahkshi released by Makuta to stop the Toa Nuva. Rather, they are more like the rahkshi seen in the The Darkness Below, a known species though uncommon. There were not Skakdi or Vortixx on Mata-Nui. There were only six Toa, instead of the dozens we have here. There were only six Turaga. Here, the Toa Mata were defeated. In canon, they won their confrontation. Again, only the staff knows to what degree this story is canon, and what it is not. Everyone else operates within the given parameters. If they say this is not the 2001 Makuta, it's not. If they say there are only x amount of Matoran on the island, that is how many there are.

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On this eve, the thirtieth anniversary of that first colony, many are left to wonder; is the world fast approaching a breaking point?

 

 

  Breaking Point: An OTC Mecha RPG

 

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I don't really understand why anyone cares about these little bits of trivia. Our characters wouldn't know EXACTLY how many Matoran there are, and they wouldn't know much about the Rahkshi, and if WE knew what the Makuta was up to the whole game would be ruined. I think I'm missing something, or I just don't really care.That is all.

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Are we or are we not still using real world comparisons to fill in the gaps such as the comparisons between human and Matoran anatomy? You've already made that declaration to treat them similar meaning that while their skin can be a natural armor, it can be cut and Matoran can bleed. Many characters are already wearing some kind of armor over that natural armor that can't be cut as easily and protect the more 'softer' armor that is the 'skin' is it not?

I tell people to deal with their characters' biomechanical anatomies as if they were humans because that's a factual baseline that we all know. It is next to impossible to fully realize a body any different than our own for our characters without the risk of people playing at different levels of weakness.Yes, matoran can be cut and can bleed, but that doesn't mean that their skin is soft. It's just that, in this universe, where everybody is superpowered and super-strong, metal "skin" isn't as good a defense in combat. If you want to wear extra and external armor, be my guest.

I don't see why we can't apply that thinking to other aspects as well such as population to land mass considerations, Matoran Social Life, and tech level.

Because I and the other staff say so. We don't have to fully adhere to either reality or the BIONICLE canon. The end.

If this isn't related to any part of the BIONICLE story then where are we drawing comparisons from? By all rights this game shouldn't even be here and probably belongs in the Completely Off Topic section if we're going to utilize that thinking. Does or does not the backstory confirm that the entire Quest for the Masks canon 2001 storyline play out the same way it did in canon up until the final battle with the Makuta AND THEN the timeline splits off before moving on to the 2002 Borhok Swarms while we play in the split off time stream?

That's an untrue conclusion. We do draw immensely from the BIONICLE story: same species, same island, same bad guys (more or less), same powers. If this game belongs in COT for not adhering to the BIONICLE story enough for your tastes, then every RPG in this forum belongs there, too, because I guarantee that many of them diverge from the canon more sharply in places than we do.Yes, the 2001 story with a defeat at Kini-Nui is our backstory - almost everything about the 2001 story holds true here.

I'm pretty sure that means we're dealing with 2001 Great Spirit Makuta here so I have no clue what you guys are going on about.

...Except for this.

It's been a hundred years since the Battle of the Kini-Nui and subsequently, the release of the Rahkshi. I think there have been plenty enough Rahkshi attacks in that time to confirm the existence of each breed of Rahkshi at least once. After all, NPCs are only supposed to appear when it's convenient right?

The Rahkshi were released briefly during the pre-game story - they're referenced in the BZPRPG backstory, but have not been seen since. Makuta has drawn them back to himself for the time being. It'd be impossible to confirm all the types of Rahkshi he has because he doesn't just have six.

I'm glad you see the problem in if Makuta could go for an easy victory by sweeping aside such a small force and would have done so. That's the point I was trying to make. We have already established that because of the game backstory, we are dealing with 2001 Makuta.Or at least, I am.

Actually, I don't see any problem in that "inconsistency" you keep referencing; what I see is Makuta having motives you don't understand, and thus acting in ways that don't make sense to you. We aren't dealing with the 2001 Makuta. That's another fact, I've already said so. No matter how much you point to your theories, it will never be true. Our Makuta is not the Makuta you know from 2001.If you're dealing with the 2001 Makuta, you are in denial. Edited by Nuju Metru

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YOUR characters won't because it's irreverent to them.MINE however DO know this information because we're the ones it affects. We are Marines and it's our job to be aware of these threats because we protect Ga-Koro from these threats.We know what Makuta wants. It's the methods he goes about to achieve this goal that are the unknowns we need to thwart. I don't know what information the company knows that's causing them to be silenced but I know their history and that along with the information extracted from one of the killers in interrogation is enough to make me concerned that what they do know could be important enough to warrant further investigation.It could be the key to ending the Makuta's threat.Kalama would defiantly kill to make sure that kind of information survives long enough to be put to use and Makuta would defiantly not want that information to get out. Surprisingly, even Makuta doesn't seem to know what this information actually is. Perhaps we're both causing bloodshed over something like the locations of Copper Masks of Victory. Wars have been fought over far more mundane things.That and someone just tried to kill Macku. Marines have a tendency to take things like that personally since it's their job to keep things like that from happening.*drums fingers on table*So if this ISN'T the "Invulnerable Dark Spirit" from 2001 does that mean it's nothing more than a pretender using smoke and mirrors along with rather... cosmic luck combined with ignorance of those he's trying to oppress?...LAME.I'll stick to punching out Dark Gods of the Apocalypse. The possibility of seeing the look on Makuta's face when he realizes he can bleed is FAR too tempting then your explanation. This conflict is going to reach critical mass sooner or later and Makuta is going to have to face someone in combat.Even if it isn't me I intend to watch.

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well you will have to wait until tuck gets back to fight makutaI don't see whats wrong with you, nuju metru has answered your questions, and you refuse to listen.whenever you get your questions answered, you just ask more questions, and barely do you explain why you think our answers are wrong.

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You can seek "information" as much as you want, connect as many unrelated dots as you choose, but it won't mean anything. You're forgetting a critical point about this investigation of yours; staff holds all the real answers, and you will only ever know as much as we let you. I don't care how inquisitive your character is; he isn't going to find out anything of value. That isn't a challenge, just a statement of how things are. This isn't a pretender Makuta. He is the real Makuta. And you will never understand him, especially if you keep trying to reconcile the canon character with the reality in the RPG, because they aren't the same.

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Sorry Nuju but the way you worded that, that is a challenge.CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.Your turn by the way in Ta-Wahi.

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You must have some kind of death wish kalama.so EW, does you new big plot tie into stannis group when they arrive at onu-koro?

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Tuck has already made the public death threats and I'm already up in my neck with the plot before you threw that challenge out there Nuju. I have resigned myself to the possibility of death.That and I've already met the Reaper in real life and yet I'm not afraid of water despite nearly drowning twice.What makes you think you have any chance of scaring me?

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I am honoured that you have decided to read my writing using the great John Cleese's voice.Anyway, so your plot is about to be unveiled? Where is it going to be taking place?

From the north, the south, the east and west, the plague shall infect and overcome all that stands in its way, ascending upwards to the sky to challenge the stars themselves. All encompassing, all engrossing and all impacting, it shall be everywhere, but in one. Mata Nui shall tremble before it.

so EW, does you new big plot tie into stannis group when they arrive at onu-koro?

Not at all. This is a separate plot of my engineering while Stannis is part of the staff-run plot. Will they intersect? Undoubtedly, but that will be on coincidence and not purpose.

Tuck has already made the public death threats and I'm already up in my neck with the plot before you threw that challenge out there Nuju. I have resigned myself to the possibility of death.That and I've already met the Reaper in real life and yet I'm not afraid of water despite nearly drowning twice.What makes you think you have any chance of scaring me?

He doesn't have to scare you. If you honestly think anyone is trying to actually scare you, or if you think any real life experiences prepare you for this, let me remind you that this is a literary community game on a website for a kid's fantasy themed toy line. If that's serious enough to you for using real life death scenarios and feeling like people are scaring you with a game, you should get your head checked, cuz that's just wrong.
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Tuck has already made the public death threats and I'm already up in my neck with the plot before you threw that challenge out there Nuju. I have resigned myself to the possibility of death.That and I've already met the Reaper in real life and yet I'm not afraid of water despite nearly drowning twice.What makes you think you have any chance of scaring me?

I've got to agree with EW on this. :annoyed:

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Tuck has already made the public death threats and I'm already up in my neck with the plot before you threw that challenge out there Nuju. I have resigned myself to the possibility of death.That and I've already met the Reaper in real life and yet I'm not afraid of water despite nearly drowning twice.What makes you think you have any chance of scaring me?

I've got to agree with EW on this. :annoyed:
Thirded

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On this eve, the thirtieth anniversary of that first colony, many are left to wonder; is the world fast approaching a breaking point?

 

 

  Breaking Point: An OTC Mecha RPG

 

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From the north, the south, the east and west, the plague shall infect and overcome all that stands in its way, ascending upwards to the sky to challenge the stars themselves. All encompassing, all engrossing and all impacting, it shall be everywhere, but in one. Mata Nui shall tremble before it.

A plague? Sounds suspiciously like Kughii's 'infection' or whatever he'll be rolling out in March...You should see his blog-there's an entry talking about it.

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We know what Makuta wants.

NO WE DON'T. Get that through your head.And actually listen to what people are saying - they counter all of your points, and you ignore them and repeat yourself over and over.By the way, contrary to popular belief, being involved in the staff-run plot does not make you better than everyone else, nor does it give you inside information about the game. Just sayin', 'cause it sounds like you think it does.Man, I told myself I'd stay out of this whole thing...:t::b::3:

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I have had my head looked at.Nothing wrong.Sorry, officially declared sane despite how much I wear self proclaimed insanity like a badge of honor.Besides, it's that kind of crazy that leads people to volunteer for a job such as a soldier were death is a certainty voluntarily.Nobody forced me to sign up. Nether did anyone force any of the Marines into that job. That's what it means to serve in an all volunteer force. The profession isn't for everybody as you guys are demonstrating. I enjoyed it, I enjoy writing about it, I enjoy writing what it really looks like from a soldier's perspective. We face that kind of threat every day and we laugh at it while everyone else runs and hides. Law enforcement, Emergency Responce Teams, Firefighters, even Superheroes.Lego needed to tone down the violence because they didn't want to scare the kids. Last time I checked a good chunk of us who are discussing this and are writing about things like romance, suicide, evil plots, war, courage, fear, and all those things who had fun with BIONICLE during it's run are no longer kids.So is this LEGO's BIONICLE BZPRPG with little to no violence? Or is this OUR BZPRPG which by the looks of things is far darker, gritter, bloodier, and realistic?I'm already in the latter's camp since I can't take back what I've already posted.

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Things I've written: Interview with Nidhiki And other Interviews, TARGETED

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US Army Vet: HOORAH! BZPRPG Prof: Kalama

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Groan, headache... To everyone, :headbonk: .Ah I feel better now.Anyway, as much as I love building an intricate lore and universe, this has gotten out of hand. There really isn't much more we can do. Atleast not until Tuck comes back, until then all we can do, when it comes to lore, is continue on the quest for the clues and whatever staff plots are being made. Once Tuck comes back, he will confirm in game, exactly what Makuta wants, until then all we can do is wait.

It also sounds a bit like what's going on in Po-Koro as well.

What's going on in Po-Koro?
Basically the Comet plague all over again, except this time it's originating from drinking sources, all though nobody, in game, knows this. Edited by Toa Onarax

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A plague? Sounds suspiciously like Kughii's 'infection' or whatever he'll be rolling out in March...You should see his blog-there's an entry talking about it.

Agreed. EW's copying Kughii! :P It also sounds a bit like what's going on in Po-Koro as well.
Nothing like it. This plague can be allegorical, you know. You might want to keep that in mind in the next few months, too, hint hint wink wink. :)
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