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And deny the rest of the community a chance to chip in their two cents like they've been doing for the past 2 pages?Pass. :)If we don't give them a chance to get involved then that's our fault Nuju. Not theirs.Oh I don't know. He seems like a reasonable enough chap to give Vakama a year free from terror on Mata-Nui and was even nice enough to personally come to Takua and offer him a deal to surrender the Avokhii or face his doom. Doesn't seem very detrimental to the health...Since Makuta DOES talk to people, he can too make sense. Communication is what allows others to make sense. Sure he's shifty to me since I'm opposing him but that doesn't mean I can't figure out what he's up to and try to stop him.Vice Versa by the way. I'm unknowable to him since he hasn't talked to me and has no idea on how Kalama thinks. To Makuta I'm this weird little blip that doesn't exist randomly wandering around without any true purpose. Do you ever think he might be curious about that as much as I'm curious about why his actions don't add up?If the story doesn't make sense. It crashes. It's not hard to figure out what a God wants. They're usually very clear on what they want because if they're too subtle, they won't get it.

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Don't you get it? No giant robot means no Metru Nui, means no Vaka Metru, means Teridax did not make a one-year deal with him. Plus, this Makuta isn't Teridax, it's just The Makuta. No, it's not just to keep mystique for no reason, it's also to prove that preconceived notions are out the window. This is Mata Nui, but not quite as we remembered it.The Makuta's goal are unknown because the means he's accomplishing his goals seem erratic and trivial. You can try to figure out what he's up to, but no matter what you come up with, you'd be wrong. He's that good. You don't matter, you're just a blip, as you said. You're the last of his worries. And he seems more powerful and hellbent than Teridax was, anyway: the Toa are dead, or worse, and he has agents kidnapping matoran who know too much (Chronicler's Company). This isn't the typical Bionicle adversary we're facing here, this is the BZPRPG enemy and we don't know anything about him. At. All.God and Makuta are different things. Plus, what God (whichever one) wants is written in manuscripts for us to know, Makuta's wishes are not, though. This is something totally different. So cast aside the ideas you had before, disregard your preconceived notions, and accept things for what they are: oblique, unknown and sinister. It's what all good BZPRPG players do and should do.

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Ah, clever like THE JOKER!Masquerading his evil genius underneath the guise of babbling insanity. Swaying ever unpredictably.But you can fight them. They can be understood. How else has Batman survived all these years?Substitute the names Joker with Makuta and Batman with Matoran.Eventually even if Makuta is still playing games he's going to get tired and try to wipe the board clean only to find that perhaps... he's not quite the dark god we thought him to be. After all the dark only has a hold on you as long as you fear it. If you don't have a reason to fear it because it's been too lax in giving you reasons to fear it, it suddenly loses all it's power yes? Understanding is the key.Kalama has no reason to fear Makuta. Nether am I because there's still holes in the story. We're in the curious stage of overcoming fear. We will discover the truth despite your cries of dark mystery because that's what we do.I don't like mysteries remaining mysteries. I enjoy tearing them apart and finding solutions. I THOUGHT I could find a decent challenge here in regards to solving what the Makuta is up to but it's turning out to be too easy since no one is measuring up and are just trying to cover up missing details with empty darkness.Closure is important. There's an end coming eventually and I'd like to close the cover feeling satisfied. It that important or not for the rest of you?

Edited by Kalama and Ta Rahkshi

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So I'm creating two more characters, A Toa of Crystal Warlord to be feared and respected, and his second-hand man, a Vortixx deadlier with his hands, arms, knees and legs than most are with their powers and blades combined.Who's interested in interacting when they're up?

Edited by Lord Darkon

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I said disregard preconceived notions, Kalama, but your entire argument is based on those very same notions, your comparison with Batman as an example. This is something totally different with no equivalent we can compare to, so real-world comparisons and allegories are worthless. The Makuta is a unique threat.And the real reason why people are "trying to cover up missing details with empty darkness" is because The Makuta is, so far, an incomplete puzzle. It would be foolish to try and solve it to begin with! Pieces are missing, and that's because the grand master of the plan, Tuck, is not here. Emzee and Nuju are not privy of all the details, and so it stagnates a little. But my main point is that it is worthless to try and solve a puzzle that isn't even entirely there.And finally, the end is a long ways away. Typically, the RPG resets location and theme every new year, but we didn't this time. Why? There's a lot to do, and a lot to happen, along with other 4th wall reasons. The "end" is at least a year away. There is no reason to fuss over having a pretty ending when the game still so young. Quit your crying about it, please.

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There's a reason they're cliche EW.THEY WORK.Are we, or are we not using RL comparisons to fill in the blanks where explanations suddenly drop off such as comparing Matoran and Human physiology? Why do you think aliens of early sci-fi flicks were humanoid and most aliens of modern sci-fi retain this humanoid concept? Where do you think a lot of the mythology of the early story came from? My finger is pointing toward influences of Greece Mythology though others more familiar with other mythology might draw their comparisons from there. Mata-Nui(Zeus) verse Makuta(Hadies). This is done to give you a better understanding of the story. As the story progresses we understand more.True Tuck isn't here to drive the staff plot so the game is slowly falling apart. While waiting for his return I'm currently going through the story as it stands now to get a better understand of my surroundings. There's a lot of gaping holes (which you have acknowledged as existing) that could stand to be filled in while we're standing around waiting.What is keeping Makuta from currently just subjugating the Matoran and calling it a day? What is the reason that forces him to layer plots upon plots in the dark working toward a bloodless victory when he could just knock aside the small guard and take the easy road? With all the killing taking place, why aren't the Matoran extinct because of their small numbers? Where are these magical NPC coming from? What are their stories?Just saying Makuta is unknowable and a wizard did it is illogical and unrealistic. The Matoran are going to ask "Why?" because reason is a gift that separates the sentient from the non-sentient. Why is Makuta doing all this? They will want to know and even if they don't like the answer they'll get one. Getting an answer they don't like will cause them to dig deeper and question further.Much like I'm doing right now.The pieces you're giving me don't add up so I'm forced to use my head and reason my way through the problems and come up with a solution. While the solution works I'm being told it's not the right one.Plothole: Makuta has not subjugated the island and called it a day.Problem: Makuta has proven he is capable of subjugating the island on a whim. Why hasn't he?Fact: Makuta wants the Matoran alive to worship him.Fact: Matoran will defend themselves if attacked.Fact: Rahkshi are numerous and can kill ToaFact: Rahkshi are loose on the island.Fact: If the Matoran resist, they will be killed.Reason: If there are too many Matoran killed, Makuta will fail in his goal of subjugating them. Dead slaves are no good to anyone.Reason: If there are too few Matoran, the Rahkshi can easily sweep aside the guard and subjugate the village.Reason: If the population was big enough, they can resist the Rahkshi despite taking losses. Makuta would order them to stand down to avoid killing too many Matoran.Pre-solution reasoning: The population must be big enough to support a large enough force that would make the Makuta balk.Solution: Makuta is working toward a bloodless victory to avoid massive bloodshed and losing too many future worshipers. in the meantime he pressures the villages with Rahi and Rahkshi to keep the fear in everyone while working in the dark to seize his total and bloodless victory.Look at that. I just solved the unsolvable. The only problem is the outcry that a large population is "unreasonable". But there it is clear as day. With the answer of "Large population" I just answered 4 of the 5 questions asked earlier. The 5 one I'd have to ask each of those people. I smell a quest!Time to do some math. That's right, I'm afraid I have to use... MATH! Let's see exactly how big in human terms Mata-Nui actually is.Sources list Mata-Nui as 357 Kios long by 178 Kio wide. A kio measures 1000 bios. So it's 357,000 bios by 175,000 bios. Sources say 1 bio is 4.5 feet or 1.37 meters. To equate, we mulitply. So it's 1,606,500 feet or 513,750 Meters long by 787,500 feet or 239,750 meters wide.Mmm... that's big but lets see how big it really is in terms of bigger measurements such as miles or kilometers. We divide now. There are 5280 feet in a mile and 1000 meters in a kilometer. This's puts Mata-Nui at roughly 304.26 miles or 513.75 kilometers long by 149.15 miles or 239.75 meters wide.That's just a little bit smaller than the Bahamas which at last US Census had 354,563 people living on it.Even if we decide to chop that down we're still looking at a rather sizable number the island CAN support.Now I'm going to address another issue. The inhabiants may be tribal but that's a SOCIAL thing. One can still have a tribal culture but have a modern technology level.Fact: Advanced forging technquies are avalible thanks to Ta-Koro.Fact: Weaving techiques and advanced shipbuilding techiques are praticed in Ga-Koro.Fact: Metals such as iron and bronze are likely mined from Onu-Koro since the village is in essance, one giant mining operation.Fact: Advanced carving techques are avalible in Po-Koro.Fact: Most weapons and armor are of the forged varatiy.Fact: Projectile weapons are slowly coming into use thanks to the Vortixx.Tech level assessment: High Iron Age with the beginnings of the Italian Renaissance.By using RL comparisons I have already solved quite a few issues."But Kalama we're not using RL comparisons!"Did we or did we not just agree that we were to fill in the blanks? You're flipfloping and sending me mixed messages.Is this story sticking to canon where LEGO required a little to no violence policy or are we creating our own world based off the story that's darker, grittier, and apparently far bloodier considering the rate of killing that's going around?CHOOSE.

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This discussion is the most fun I've had in a long time. I prefer to submerge myself completely in the details and get lost in a world full of mystery to be solved.Telling me to just sit on my hands and be stymied isn't fun at all. <_<

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TL;DR.Anyway, Greek Mythology wasn't Zeus versus Hades (Verse is not a verb, and you spelt Hades incorrectly.). It was basically Zeus and his fellow Olympians going: 'Hey, let's go be obnoxious and morally ambiguous and marry our siblings', while Hades was like: 'Why is it that everybody keeps on escaping from the underworld? Death is supposed to be permanent!'Hades was the nicest of all the gods.But back on topic, sure it may be fun to have a deep and entrenching storyline, but unless it's really significant to their actions, people would ignore it so they can go interact with others and make their characters commit suicide. Not many really care about the statistics and everything.Besides, it's much easier to just say: A Wizard Did It, and call it a day.And Kalama, like the two above you, you seem to be taking this really seriously.

Edited by Hubert: Crimson Lord
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" If you wonder how he eats and breathes, and other science facts. Your should tell yourself " It's just a show, and I should really just relax."Basically, what everyone else said.

Anyway, Greek Mythology wasn't Zeus versus Hades (Verse is not a verb, and you spelt Hades incorrectly.). It was basically Zeus and his fellow Olympians going: 'Hey, let's go be obnoxious and morally ambiguous and marry our siblings', while Hades was like: 'Why is it that everybody keeps on escaping from the underworld? Death is supposed to be permanent!'

This make made me laugh. Edited by BenLuke-116
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And with that I come to wonder...How in tarnation did I get nominated for "Most Enjoyable to Read About?"The only answer I can give you is that I take those details seriously to write realistically.Apparently someone(s) enjoyed it enough to put my name down. I didn't nominate myself. The fact my name was even put down is proof enough for me that attention to details like that is what makes me "Enjoyable to Read About."

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You're over thinking it Kalama.It's like you're trying to complete a 1000 piece puzzle with only half the pieces. You can't put a puzzle together until you have all the pieces, and we don't. We don't know why Makuta doesn't just crush take the entire island for himself right now, this very instant, killing those who resist.You don't get to understand it or get to make it make sense yet cause you aren't staff.Can you imagine if the viewers of LOST wanted to know everything that very minute at the start as opposed to waiting 6 seasons to find out? They didn't get to decide why the smoke monster existed, and why there were polar bears on a tropical island because they weren't the writers.The writer decides, and in this case, you aren't the person playing Makuta, so forget about it and maybe you'll understand everything Makuta did/didn't do eventually.-Snipe

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And with that I come to wonder...How in tarnation did I get nominated for "Most Enjoyable to Read About?"The only answer I can give you is that I take those details seriously to write realistically.Apparently someone(s) enjoyed it enough to put my name down. I didn't nominate myself. The fact my name was even put down is proof enough for me that attention to details like that is what makes me "Enjoyable to Read About."

I'd like to helpfully point out that nominations could be: 1. Made by one personor2. Shortlisted by Ghosthands.No offense to you, Kalama, and I really don't want to get embroiled in this. But I don't see how that reasoning fits given the circumstances. Nominations are chill 'n' all, but one person saying 'Enjoyable To Read' doesn't sound much like proof that your posts are to me when that is judged on mass appeal. Edited by Pein

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Don't you get it? No giant robot means no Metru Nui, means no Vaka Metru, means Teridax did not make a one-year deal with him. Plus, this Makuta isn't Teridax, it's just The Makuta. No, it's not just to keep mystique for no reason, it's also to prove that preconceived notions are out the window. This is Mata Nui, but not quite as we remembered it.The Makuta's goal are unknown because the means he's accomplishing his goals seem erratic and trivial. You can try to figure out what he's up to, but no matter what you come up with, you'd be wrong. He's that good. You don't matter, you're just a blip, as you said. You're the last of his worries. And he seems more powerful and Karzhahnibent than Teridax was, anyway: the Toa are dead, or worse, and he has agents kidnapping matoran who know too much (Chronicler's Company). This isn't the typical Bionicle adversary we're facing here, this is the BZPRPG enemy and we don't know anything about him. At. All.God and Makuta are different things. Plus, what God (whichever one) wants is written in manuscripts for us to know, Makuta's wishes are not, though. This is something totally different. So cast aside the ideas you had before, disregard your preconceived notions, and accept things for what they are: oblique, unknown and sinister. It's what all good BZPRPG players do and should do.

^corrected@ kalama:I have some problems with "fact" numbers 1, 3, 4, and five.

"Fact" #1: Makuta wants the Matoran alive to worship him."Fact" #3: Rahkshi are numerous and can kill Toa"Fact" #4: Rahkshi are loose on the island."Fact" #5: If the Matoran resist, they will be killed.

1: We do not know that! This isn't the canon teridax, this is a completly different evil overlord, okay? He may not want the matoran alive. He may want them alive to be slaves, not worshippers. Maybe he likes to watch them suffer? Maybe he wants matoran to come to his disco party? We have no idea what makuta really wants, we only have assumptions.3: We have no idea how many Rahkshi there are. If there is a large population of rahkshi somewhere in the MU, then it does not concern us. As far as we are concerned, everybody who comes from foriegn lands bumped their head on a rock, and doesn't know anything about their previous homes. Rahkshi Can kill toa in canon, but There has been no occurance of a toa being killed by a rahkshi as of yet.4: As far as I know, no Rahkshi have been seen on Mata nui. If I'm mistaken, correct me.5: How do you know that matoran will be killed if there is resistance? By the way you are talking about it, you mean if there is some giant rahi or rahkshi major assault, that the matoran will be decimated, right? As said in my answer to #1, We have no idea what makuta wants to do with the matoran! And if he does to a major attack, who's to say he wont have nui rama (or some other rahi) swoop down and take all of them as prisoners?Is that all? Edited by Bulik

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Welcome to the Internet. It's serious :censored: business. No exceptions.I still consider it proof I'm apparently doing something right since I've got at least one fan. That's reason enough for me to keep going.Look a lot of those facts are based off of common knowledge. My characters are well aware of the Legend of BIONCLE as passed down by the Turaga. Karz Tanuka specializes in history and legends as a scholar. She's the second most knowledgeable being about those topics after the Turaga themselves! The legend as told by the characters practically tells you everything you need to know about Makuta's goals. As the threats evolve such as the appearance of the Rahkshi, the Matoran are going to ask the Turaga about them to try and learn how to combat them and defend themselves. Details such as how many breeds their are are important. If the Turaga left out details such as how to defeat infected Rahi, do you really think the Toa would have been so successful?There are no secrets about what Makuta wants. The Turaga know and regularly remind their people. The Matoran know because they ask why. I know because I went through it repeatedly looking for holes.

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There is a difference between -wanting- you characters to be better than others, and them -actually- being better. Tanuka? Who says others aren't just as smart? This is not the Makuta the Turaga in the story talked about. You claim to have searched for holes and such, but do you realize this isn't Teridax? That Rahkshi don't exist as we know? Successful? The Toa? They just died in a hole for all we know.The Rahkshi appear when the Nuva do. The Mata are now supposedly dead. Where do you find the Rahkshi in there? This is before their time.

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Welcome to the Internet. It's serious :censored: business. No exceptions.I still consider it proof I'm apparently doing something right since I've got at least one fan. That's reason enough for me to keep going.Look a lot of those facts are based off of common knowledge. My characters are well aware of the Legend of BIONCLE as passed down by the Turaga. Karz Tanuka specializes in history and legends as a scholar. She's the second most knowledgeable being about those topics after the Turaga themselves! The legend as told by the characters practically tells you everything you need to know about Makuta's goals. As the threats evolve such as the appearance of the Rahkshi, the Matoran are going to ask the Turaga about them to try and learn how to combat them and defend themselves. Details such as how many breeds their are are important. If the Turaga left out details such as how to defeat infected Rahi, do you really think the Toa would have been so successful?There are no secrets about what Makuta wants. The Turaga know and regularly remind their people. The Matoran know because they ask why. I know because I went through it repeatedly looking for holes.

well thanks for not responding to my questions and answers to your previous post <_<I dont think it right for you to assume that all of the canon bionicle history is the same as the bzprpg's history. remember, this is not teridax, this is... the makuta. he may not be the makuta species we know of in canon. because we do know that he is not the canon teridax, that means that we have no idea what happened before. the staff, as far as i know, have not said that the turaga revealed the past to the matoran. how did the turaga know all of makuta's goals, and suddenly pass that on to one of you "amazing" characters? they dont. they would have told the exact same thing everyone knows.

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Someone else already commented on the erroneous understanding of Greek myth so I can leave that alone :P

I don't like mysteries remaining mysteries. I enjoy tearing them apart and finding solutions. I THOUGHT I could find a decent challenge here in regards to solving what the Makuta is up to but it's turning out to be too easy since no one is measuring up and are just trying to cover up missing details with empty darkness.

Except what you are doing isn't 'solving'. It can't be, because there is no solution. No until Tuck returns and starts giving out some corners and edges in this jigsaw. What you are doing is forcing your interpretation onto the puzzle. Rather than coming up with theories that fit the evidence you're warping and twisting the evidence so it suits your theories. Bad detective work that.Take this for example

My characters are well aware of the Legend of BIONCLE as passed down by the Turaga.

How do you know its still the same Legend? With all the alterations that have been made to the plot, the Legend of the Bionicle could be, and quite probably is, entirely different

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I've been sitting idly on the sidelines, observing all this :censored: and all I can say is wow. I'm not trying to pick any sides or be biased but man, Kalama, tone it down a notch. Like everyone said, this is a completely different storyline, world, etc. With next to no information on Makuta but assumptions and with Tuck missing, my advice would be to just let the matter go and wait for the right time to solve this puzzle. Not to mention I'm tired of reading over a bunch of flipping comments just to see if there's something besides talk of this...

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I'm still getting flipfloping and mixed messages here.Tanuka's been studying these for years and doing nothing else. From my perspective it rings true. i don't see anyone else translating dead languages.Does this line ring a bell to anyone?In the time before time, the Great Spirit descended from the heavens, carrying we, the ones called Matoran, to this island paradise. We were separate and without purpose, so the Great Spirit blessed us with three virtues: unity, duty, and destiny. We embraced these gifts and, in gratitude, we named our island home Mata-Nui, after the Great Spirit himself.But our happiness was not to last. Mata-Nui's brother, Makuta, was jealous of these honors and betrayed him. Makuta cast a spell over Mata-Nui, who fell into a deep slumber. Makuta's power dominated the land, as fields withered away, sunlight grew cold, and ancient values were forgotten.The Makuta as we know him from 2001 was jealous of Mata-Nui and the honors give to him. This implies he wanted those honors and worship for himself. Until he got them, he was going to make the Matoran's lives as miserable as possible and needed Mata-Nui out of the way so Mata-Nui would not interfere.I'm not someone who found BIONICLE in the later years. I was there when they ran the promo ad on the back of Lego Magazine for Tahu and Vakama BEFORE the story even started. I've been following the entire decade of BIONICLE. I know the story backwards and forwards and still remember my thoughts which each new unveiling chapter.Why are you assuming I'm always implying Teridax when I talk about Makuta? I'm aware of what Makuta was during 2001 and have never made any reference to an individual Makuta Teridax.Ever.Even Tanuka has never heard of Teridax. Ask her and she ask you who you're referring to.I know the limits. I've played through them. I've lived them.

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I'm still getting flipfloping and mixed messages here.Tanuka's been studying these for years and doing nothing else. From my perspective it rings true. i don't see anyone else translating dead languages.Does this line ring a bell to anyone?In the time before time, the Great Spirit descended from the heavens, carrying we, the ones called Matoran, to this island paradise. We were separate and without purpose, so the Great Spirit blessed us with three virtues: unity, duty, and destiny. We embraced these gifts and, in gratitude, we named our island home Mata-Nui, after the Great Spirit himself.But our happiness was not to last. Mata-Nui's brother, Makuta, was jealous of these honors and betrayed him. Makuta cast a spell over Mata-Nui, who fell into a deep slumber. Makuta's power dominated the land, as fields withered away, sunlight grew cold, and ancient values were forgotten.The Makuta as we know him from 2001 was jealous of Mata-Nui and the honors give to him. This implies he wanted those honors and worship for himself. Until he got them, he was going to make the Matoran's lives as miserable as possible and needed Mata-Nui out of the way so Mata-Nui would not interfere.I'm not someone who found BIONICLE in the later years. I was there when they ran the promo ad on the back of Lego Magazine for Tahu and Vakama BEFORE the story even started. I've been following the entire decade of BIONICLE. I know the story backwards and forwards and still remember my thoughts which each new unveiling chapter.Why are you assuming I'm always implying Teridax when I talk about Makuta? I'm aware of what Makuta was during 2001 and have never made any reference to an individual Makuta Teridax.Ever.Even Tanuka has never heard of Teridax. Ask her and she ask you who you're referring to.I know the limits. I've played through them. I've lived them.

okay, seriously?you dont need to be aware of "who makuta was in 2001" this isnt the same makuta. I think that you mean teridax because you seem to forget that as far as we know, nothing happened before mata nui island. as far as we know, there is no MU.and I find it hard to believe a "scholar" studied for years on two paragraphs. lolI agree with everything the dreadful flying glove just said*waits for staff*

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You are still sending me mixed messages.I'm getting a "You can't do that because it's too far fetched and doesn't fit the BIONICLE story."I'm also getting a "This isn't canon so we can do what we want."Can we pick one and stick with it please?I copied it from there.

Edited by Kalama and Ta Rahkshi

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Welcome to the Internet. It's serious :censored: business. No exceptions.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! That's at good one! That really made my day. :superfunny:Anyway, you can take this serious as you want, me on the other hand, don't like it when things get to complicated, or MATH, I hate math, like a lot, it makes me cry a little when I see it. Really, I think I'm scared for life because of Trigonometry, that stuff just goes over my head. As fun as it is reading your paragraph long posts, I prefer to just see where Tuck takes this, when he gets back, and he will when he can. The way I see it, the only reason Makuta hasn't made much of a move yet is cause the Toa Mata did SOMETHING down there, we just don't know what, and I'd rather wait till we get all the clues and more info before I make any conclusions. Edited by Snelly

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And a lot of those rules require following the canon requirements instead of allowing the natural expansion that comes from sandbox gameplay.You're very much welcome Snelly. I thought it was pretty good myself. ^_^

Edited by Kalama and Ta Rahkshi

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You are still sending me mixed messages.I'm getting a "You can't do that because it's too far fetched and doesn't fit the BIONICLE story."I'm also getting a "This isn't canon so we can do what we want."Can we pick one and stick with it please?I copied it from there.

It's not one or the other, because the game has elements of both. There are elements of canon in this game, like the Turaga, Chroniclers Company etc., but it is also not canon. We have Skakdi on Mata Nui. Last I checked, that didn't happen. The truth lies somewhere in the middle and only the staff knows exactly where. Everybody else just has to operate within the parameters given.

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