Powerless Matoran Kanohi - "humble Masks"?

[Ghosthands]

Masks worn by Toa are called Great Kanohi. Less powerful ones, worn by Turaga, are called Noble Kanohi. All well and good. So why is there no name like this for the powerless Kanohi worn by Matoran? Some call them Powerless Kanohi, others call them Matoran Kanohi. But I suggest a new name: Humble Kanohi. Because they don't have any powers, they could be considered more humble than the other types, right? But note that when a Matoran becomes a Toa, their mask becomes more powerful. Where does that power come from? I think it's unlikely that all of it comes from the transformation energy, so perhaps the mask has some dormant energy, just like Matoran. So calling them "powerless" wouldn't strictly be true. And it has a ring to it. Any thoughts?

[BULiK]

ahhh.... that does sound good.but "humble" makes me think of slaves or servants sometimes. I've always wondered what to call these masks.

[Boidoh]

I agree, but since um those Copper Kanohi of Victory are "powerless" would they also be considered your "Humble Kanohi" idea? Off Topic: Would wearing a copper kanohi would give the matoran same effect? like not going into coma after 3 days??

[55555]

The name sounds good, but is only fitting if they indeed have dormant power. Considering they are made out of lower power Kanoka, that doesn't seem that likely, more likely they are energized by Toa stones, or somesuch. - 55555

[Eskeleto532]

I like it and I will start to use that expresion when refering to them.It actually makes more sense then calling them powerless, because they actually have a function to the Matoran, if they don't have the mask they cannot function properly so they depend on them to live normaly and do their work, but the power of the mask isn't as Great as the Kanohi worn by Toa or as Noble as Kanohi worn by Turaga (who both give them powers on different levels), therefor is an Humble power, just to let the Matoran live and function properly.

[Ids5621]

I actually don't like the name, but that may just be me :/

[Taipu1]

I always thought the names 'Great' and 'Noble' refered to the shapes of the mask rather than the being who wore them. It's definitely not completely judged by Toa/Turaga/Matoran, as there are plenty of beings who aren't any of those who wear Kanohil: Brutaka, all the Makuta, Trinuma and many others. Also, if the Toa/Turaga/Matoran rule were true, then what's the mask when it's not being worn?

[Power of Fire]

Hmm... I like it, it makes a lot of sense. Why don't you pass on to the BSS?

Edited October 26, 2011 by Power of Fire

[Toanoopie]

Sounds good. BTW, they can't even be powerless, as the mask power is already in there in way. If a matoran is wearing a humble Kaukau, for example, even if it was shaped like another mask, it would always become a Great Kaukau upon transformation. So there must be some sort of power, even if unusable.

[a goose]

That actually fits quite well. 'Great', 'Noble', and 'Humble'. Yeah, that works well. I like it. I'm gonna use that. =)

[Visaru]

How you thought up of such a great sounding name I will never know. But it does make matoran sound inferior, which they are, but they are also, by far, the most common beings in the universe. They are average, so I don't think it fits. Maybe some sort of way of saying normal kanohi. Still, it's a great name.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

Off Topic: Would wearing a copper kanohi would give the matoran same effect? like not going into coma after 3 days??

No. They weren't made to be wearable. They're just trophies.

[Ghosthands]

I agree, but since um those Copper Kanohi of Victory are "powerless" would they also be considered your "Humble Kanohi" idea? Off Topic: Would wearing a copper kanohi would give the matoran same effect? like not going into coma after 3 days??

No, because Copper Masks are truly powerless. They are made from ordinary metal, as I understand it, rather than Kanoka, and thus have no power.

I always thought the names 'Great' and 'Noble' refered to the shapes of the mask rather than the being who wore them. It's definitely not completely judged by Toa/Turaga/Matoran, as there are plenty of beings who aren't any of those who wear Kanohil: Brutaka, all the Makuta, Trinuma and many others. Also, if the Toa/Turaga/Matoran rule were true, then what's the mask when it's not being worn?

It doesn't refer to the being wearing it; it refers to the least powerful being in the Matoran life cycle that is able to use it. A Noble Kanohi has a different shape to (and is generally smaller than) its Great form, but the "Humble" version can have the shape of either. And besides, it's been revealed that the shape of a Kanohi does not necessarily require that it has the power normally associated with that shape, or vice versa.

Hmm... I like it, it makes a lot of sense. Why don't you pass on to the BSS?

I will

Sounds good. BTW, they can't even be powerless, as the mask power is already in there in way. If a matoran is wearing a humble Kaukau, for example, even if it was shaped like another mask, it would always become a Great Kaukau upon transformation. So there must be some sort of power, even if unusable.

^^THIS PERSON KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT^^

How you thought up of such a great sounding name I will never know. But it does make matoran sound inferior, which they are, but they are also, by far, the most common beings in the universe. They are average, so I don't think it fits. Maybe some sort of way of saying normal kanohi. Still, it's a great name.

Humility is considered a virtue by many - to be humble does not make you inferior. And thanks to everyone who likes my idea

[Makuta Matata]

That could work, but humble makes them seem weaker than they actually are....

[BioGio]

Sounds good. BTW, they can't even be powerless, as the mask power is already in there in way. If a matoran is wearing a humble Kaukau, for example, even if it was shaped like another mask, it would always become a Great Kaukau upon transformation. So there must be some sort of power, even if unusable.

^^THIS PERSON KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT^^

That only raises the question of why the Matoran forged Kanohi with the Kanoka that would give it the identity to become, say, a Kaukau--rather than doing what is clearly cheaper and just using one form of Kanoka. (If that's actually what you mean they did, of course.) What I'm saying is, merging Regeneration+Shrink+Removes Poison Kanoka doesn't make sense when you can just make a mask out of a Shrink Kanoka. ~ BioGio EDIT: Just adding a bit more. Edited October 27, 2011 by BioGio

[Erebus]

Okay, I got the PM from Ghosthands. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can do anything besides discuss it. We would like GregF to get back on track first.

[Touko Fukawa]

I like this! One thinks one may act-ualy call them that now! Hum-ble is very fitting, and seems to keep with the theme of Great and Noble per-fectly.

[Triggons]

I don't particularly like it, to be honest. It does have a sort of ring to it, but I don't think it would fit in canon that well.

[ALVIS]

That's a very nice term and I think I'll adopt it. Not sure where it would come up, but still.

[ZTG]

Hmmmm...interesting.... However, even though they are humble, I highly doubt the masks would be called Humble Kanohi, I still consider the name of Matoran kanohi Noble Kanohi. Still curious why the GBs would make matoran without the power to make their masks work...huh...anywho good name though.

[Artezza Magnus]

"Humble Kanohi"...rolls off the tongue quite nicely. I like it Can never have too much jargon.

[Ghosthands]

Hmmmm...interesting.... However, even though they are humble, I highly doubt the masks would be called Humble Kanohi, I still consider the name of Matoran kanohi Noble Kanohi. Still curious why the GBs would make matoran without the power to make their masks work...huh...anywho good name though.

Noble Kanohi are the masks whose powers Turaga are able to use, but are weaker than Great ones. If a Turaga wore a 'Humble Mask', it would not give them any powers.

"Humble Kanohi"...rolls off the tongue quite nicely. I like it Can never have too much jargon.

My thoughts exactly

[Harvali]

I have to agree with the masses here, I also like the concept. Powerless Kanohi have long lacked a name, and this one fits. It might be because humble sounds superficially similar to noble, but it just works. And the only mask I recall that didn't match it's shape was Norik's Mask of Shrinking, but that one was carved purposely to resemble a great hero, so it has no effect on the idea that humble masks have dormant mask powers. I hope the motion carries.

[Kopekemaster]

I think that would be a good name for them. Legendary...Great....Noble...Humble.... Sounds fitting.

[BioGio]

I'll agree that the name fits, but I still haven't seen my main question answered. Why would Matoran use multiple Kanoka to create Kanohi that lack any sort of power but would have the latent identity of a Great or Noble Kanohi? After all, next to no Matoran become Toa, so giving out Kanohi that could later have a specific power just doesn't make sense to me.~ BioGio

[Harvali]

I'll agree that the name fits, but I still haven't seen my main question answered. Why would Matoran use multiple Kanoka to create Kanohi that lack any sort of power but would have the latent identity of a Great or Noble Kanohi? After all, next to no Matoran become Toa, so giving out Kanohi that could later have a specific power just doesn't make sense to me.~ BioGio

At one point there were three thousand allied Toa, if memory serves at least. Three thousand is quite a large population, and those are just the ones under Lihkan, there could be traitors and noncombatants as well. The reason there are so few now is because the Makuta issued a great purge on all Toa, not because Toa are rare. So in truth there is plenty of reason to give them dormant powers, the potential for Toa to appear is large, it just is whether or not they survive or become Turaga.

[BioGio]

BS01 gives that number as 300, a meager third of the total approximate population of Metru Nui and approximately equivalent to 3 times the total population of Artakha. Additionally, these Toa were from all over the Matoran Universe, implying that the were likely few and far between. Further, this is certainly not a regular event; I can't find any other point in the history of the Matoran Universe where this sort of thing occured.As BS01 says, "a few [Matoran] are predestined to become Toa"--in other words, a couple may, but most won't. (Out of the residents of Metru Nui around the time of Teridax's reign, only about 1.5% have become Toa.) But why would a mask maker use three Kanoka to allow those few Matoran to have a Kanohi with laten powers (on that off chance that the Matoran becomes a Toa) when they could just use one and re-shape it to just look like a powered Kanohi-- only without its attributes?~ BioGio

[Ghosthands]

BS01 gives that number as 300, a meager third of the total approximate population of Metru Nui and approximately equivalent to 3 times the total population of Artakha. Additionally, these Toa were from all over the Matoran Universe, implying that the were likely few and far between. Further, this is certainly not a regular event; I can't find any other point in the history of the Matoran Universe where this sort of thing occured.As BS01 says, "a few [Matoran] are predestined to become Toa"--in other words, a couple may, but most won't. (Out of the residents of Metru Nui around the time of Teridax's reign, only about 1.5% have become Toa.) But why would a mask maker use three Kanoka to allow those few Matoran to have a Kanohi with laten powers (on that off chance that the Matoran becomes a Toa) when they could just use one and re-shape it to just look like a powered Kanohi-- only without its attributes?~ BioGio

Well, we've not yet been told exactly how Kanoka are made. Perhaps the process yields disks' powers at random?EDIT: Sorry, we have.And anyway, perhaps certain Kanohi have greater perceived worth by Matoran? Like, you can have a watch made from brass or a watch made from gold. They may look exactly the same, but a gold watch is worth much more than a brass one. Edited November 2, 2011 by Ghosthands

[CroMagnonMan]

That only raises the question of why the Matoran forged Kanohi with the Kanoka that would give it the identity to become, say, a Kaukau--rather than doing what is clearly cheaper and just using one form of Kanoka. (If that's actually what you mean they did, of course.) What I'm saying is, merging Regeneration+Shrink+Removes Poison Kanoka doesn't make sense when you can just make a mask out of a Shrink Kanoka.

Since certain Matoran, in Metru Nui at least, were designated mask makers, making the same mask over and over would get tedious after a few thousand years. Making different kinds of masks would be a good way to keep one's skills honed. Plus I imagine that they would be somewhat artistic types, since they apparently took pride in their skill at mask-making. They might want to make a certain kind of mask just because they felt like it, or for the challenge, or because they felt that the people they were making the masks for deserved a bit of a personal touch.In terms of resources, I'm pretty sure Metru Nui had a lot of materials available for disc- and mask-making, what with all it went through to obtain, purify, use and recycle Protodermis. (That's practically all it did, actually.) It was a booming metropolis, so waste probably wasn't much of a concern. Also, maybe the number of discs required is balanced out by the difficulty entailed to make a certain powered mask? Like, certain powers could be harder to manifest, even dormantly, because it's a "pure" power and requires more finesse, while composite powers would have more room for flexibility?~QMarkEdit: Oh, almost forgot what the topic was about, haha. I like the term "Humble Mask" as well, wouldn't mind spreading that terminology at all. Nice thinking, Ghosthands. Edited November 3, 2011 by QuestionMark

[Lara White]

I like the term "Humble Mask," and support the push to try and get it made canon.

[Tiakor]

Well...it doess have a better ring to it than powerless.