MSPaint

[tent163phantoka]

Why is there so much hatred of MSPaint on BZP? Is it because of the Big-shots using GIMP and Photoshop? is it because it's cartoony? Is it too goofy-looking? is it really that bad?

[Calvirick]

It might SOUND like hatred, but in reality it could be the artists raving over the fact that MSPainters are getting more attention than the hand-drawn artists. I think for some, they think that pixel-artists shouldn't be considered artists at all. I like drawing more than pixel art, because you have to have more experience. And not just with graphite or inking, but with photoshop too. Pixel art is a matter of dragging and dropping. Someone used a great word for it, building. They build their work rather than draw it. I don't hate it, but I think we've killed it by this point.

[Than the Moa]

It has more to do with the fact that Paint is just a low quality art program useful for primarily pixel art only. There are other free software, such as Gimp or Paint.NET that are far more capable than Paint. I don't think there is a instinctive hatred of everything made in Paint so much as it just isn't all that useful of a tool and generally the quality of things produced in it is lower than other programs.

It might SOUND like hatred, but in reality it could be the artists raving over the fact that MSPainters are getting more attention than the hand-drawn artists. I think for some, they think that pixel-artists shouldn't be considered artists at all.I like drawing more than pixel art, because you have to have more experience. And not just with graphite or inking, but with photoshop too. Pixel art is a matter of dragging and dropping. Someone used a great word for it, building. They build their work rather than draw it.I don't hate it, but I think we've killed it by this point.

Pixel art, which is different than copying and pasting pieces from a kit which is what I think you're confusing for pixel art, is actually a very interesting form of art. It's the idea of emulating the style and feel of the 8 bit and 16 bit era of video games. It is something that takes a lot of skill to pull off and is admirable. Edited July 12, 2012 by Than the Moa

[fishers64]

It has more to do with the fact that Paint is just a low quality art program useful for primarily pixel art only. There are other free software, such as Gimp or Paint.NET that are far more capable than Paint. I don't think there is a instinctive hatred of everything made in Paint so much as it just isn't all that useful of a tool and generally the quality of things produced in it is lower than other programs.

I agree with this, mostly. MSPaint is generally on every Microsoft computer, easy to find, and easy to crank out low quality artwork on. Those who want to crank out the effort to do higher quality work generally also put in the effort to find a drawing program with more capability. It's a misconception that MSPaint artwork=bad automatically, but it does have a bit of basis in fact.

[Soran]

It might SOUND like hatred, but in reality it could be the artists raving over the fact that MSPainters are getting more attention than the hand-drawn artists. I think for some, they think that pixel-artists shouldn't be considered artists at all.I like drawing more than pixel art, because you have to have more experience. And not just with graphite or inking, but with photoshop too. Pixel art is a matter of dragging and dropping. Someone used a great word for it, building. They build their work rather than draw it.I don't hate it, but I think we've killed it by this point.

If you're talking about comics, theres barely anyone who actually uses MSPaint. Most use Gimp (GNU Image Manipulation Program) which is similar to Photoshop except free. Comic makers use sprites which are normally made in mspaint or other simple paint programs mainly because some of the comic makers don't have the artistic talent to actually draw things, but still want a way to express their stories through means of artistic measures. Some develope their own sprites however. In my opinion, spriting or creating pixel art and have it actually look good is far more harder then drawing and making it look good. An example, would be a person drawing toa tahu from sight and someone spriting it. Spriting has limitations, normally dealing with size, although drawing also has limitations, I feel that spriting is far harder if you actually want it to look good. You appear to be mistaking pixel art with sprite comics.Anyway, I don't really think there is actual hatred for it. Its just that people prefer other programs because of things like antialiasing, photo manipulation tools, and different effects. Also paint is a very straight forward program with very little guides as opposed to photoshop or gimp which has many guides and tons of different effects possible.~Soran

[Axilus Prime]

It might SOUND like hatred, but in reality it could be the artists raving over the fact that MSPainters are getting more attention than the hand-drawn artists. I think for some, they think that pixel-artists shouldn't be considered artists at all.I like drawing more than pixel art, because you have to have more experience. And not just with graphite or inking, but with photoshop too. Pixel art is a matter of dragging and dropping. Someone used a great word for it, building. They build their work rather than draw it.I don't hate it, but I think we've killed it by this point.

If you're talking about comics, theres barely anyone who actually uses MSPaint. Most use Gimp (GNU Image Manipulation Program) which is similar to Photoshop except free. Comic makers use sprites which are normally made in mspaint or other simple paint programs mainly because some of the comic makers don't have the artistic talent to actually draw things, but still want a way to express their stories through means of artistic measures. Some develope their own sprites however. In my opinion, spriting or creating pixel art and have it actually look good is far more harder then drawing and making it look good. An example, would be a person drawing toa tahu from sight and someone spriting it. Spriting has limitations, normally dealing with size, although drawing also has limitations, I feel that spriting is far harder if you actually want it to look good. You appear to be mistaking pixel art with sprite comics.Anyway, I don't really think there is actual hatred for it. Its just that people prefer other programs because of things like antialiasing, photo manipulation tools, and different effects. Also paint is a very straight forward program with very little guides as opposed to photoshop or gimp which has many guides and tons of different effects possible.~Soran

Lots of people use Paint, that's inaccurate. However, Paint just doesn't have all the tools. It's for simple art, works for most comics, but no special effects.

[Makaru]

Paint for Window's 7 is ridiculously awesome and fun.

[Taka Nuvia]

I've never really been fond of MS Paint. Okay, I'm not really up-to-date with the latest versions, but those for Windows 2000 and XP were always very... confusing, to say the least. And kinda limited, IMO.HOWEVER, I've seen people do amazing stuff with Paint only, so... I wouldn't say that I hate it, it's just no the right programme for me. ^^'

If you're talking about comics, theres barely anyone who actually uses MSPaint. Most use Gimp (GNU Image Manipulation Program) which is similar to Photoshop except free. Comic makers use sprites which are normally made in mspaint or other simple paint programs mainly because some of the comic makers don't have the artistic talent to actually draw things, but still want a way to express their stories through means of artistic measures. Some develope their own sprites however. In my opinion, spriting or creating pixel art and have it actually look good is far more harder then drawing and making it look good. An example, would be a person drawing toa tahu from sight and someone spriting it. Spriting has limitations, normally dealing with size, although drawing also has limitations, I feel that spriting is far harder if you actually want it to look good. You appear to be mistaking pixel art with sprite comics.Anyway, I don't really think there is actual hatred for it. Its just that people prefer other programs because of things like antialiasing, photo manipulation tools, and different effects. Also paint is a very straight forward program with very little guides as opposed to photoshop or gimp which has many guides and tons of different effects possible.~Soran

About that statement: I kinda disagree. Having tried out both, I wouldn't say that spriting is that much harder than drawing. Okay, both require a different approach. But it's like saying "Making something look good in watercolour is much harder than making something look good in charcoal". No. They're just very different media, and which ever you decide to use has its own capabilities and difficulties to master, but what it breaks down to is this:What it really requires to make something look good, regardless of media used, is skill. Practice. A general understanding of things like form, shading/light, perspective, proportion. Seems familiar?_{That's just my view on things though, and if we're talking about making kits, then I should probably take back what I just said because that's something I never really tried out. ^^'}

[Blessed Blade]

I think it's also because of lack of things that should be basic by now; like in-program transparency(Making things opaque so they fit doesn't count, I mean literal transparency, without having to open The GIMP as well), or layers for animation.... I might be biased, simply because The GIMP won't save my PNG files. >_>;

[Dralcax]

Paint is easier to draw on than GIMP, but GIMP is far superior in modifying existing images (Sprites from a kit, comic panels, scanned artwork to be colored, etc). GIMP can also animate and use transparency.And did I mention that Paint can only rotate in increments of 90 degrees? That would be Paint's biggest fail.Comparison:GIMPPaintIt's comparable to Internet Explorer and Google Chrome. IE is basic and not much control over personal preferences, but it's simple. But Google Chrome, while with lots of extensions and themes, and convenient apps, is better for someone who uses the internet regularly and uses lots of social networking and has Gmail and stuff than someone who just needs to google something every once in a while.

[Lime Paradox]

Paint can be great for pixel art, and I've seen some pretty nice-looking sprite comics made entirely in Paint as wellHowever, it's also a very limited program that's easy to misuse, so when a lot of people think "made in Paint" they imagine something like thisWhat really bothers me, though, is ArtIII's habit of telling new comic makers to use GIMP or Photoshop when their comics look like the example aboveIt's incredibly unhelpful advice, and almost always just results in monstrosities like thisIt's like telling someone who can only draw crude stick-figures that they should get a tablet. If you have no idea what looks good and how to make things look good, using a more advanced program will not help at all

[Akuna Toa of Sonics]

I use GIMP exclusively for creating effects, backgrounds, and glowing/outlined text in comics. I prefer to manually hand-pixel most of the comic because it's easy and I've gotten so used to using MS Paint.

[Blessed Blade]

Paint is easier to draw on than GIMP, but GIMP is far superior in modifying existing images (Sprites from a kit, comic panels, scanned artwork to be colored, etc). GIMP can also animate and use transparency.And did I mention that Paint can only rotate in increments of 90 degrees? That would be Paint's biggest fail.

GIMP would, in that case, only be truly good for assembling sprites into a comic image, though, if we're going off the comic examples. Recolouring goes to Paint, unless you can do selective erasing(And to a certain colour) in GIMP yet, though with Right Click bringing up the context menu...Basically; each has their own strengths and benefits, and this is coming from someone who formerly hated Paint. Paint(Prior to Windows 7, I don't know what they did, but the pencil tool in that is broken to me. 0_o) is best for drawing new pixel art; or recolouring. GIMP is best for assembling the sprites you drew, recoloured, or built from kits, and then adding effects and the like. And animations. And transparency.(Why Paint doesn't even support those two things, I'll never know. Even transparency of all things!)

[ActivePalpitation]

Paint is easier to draw on than GIMP, but GIMP is far superior in modifying existing images (Sprites from a kit, comic panels, scanned artwork to be colored, etc). GIMP can also animate and use transparency.And did I mention that Paint can only rotate in increments of 90 degrees? That would be Paint's biggest fail.Comparison:GIMPPaintIt's comparable to Internet Explorer and Google Chrome. IE is basic and not much control over personal preferences, but it's simple. But Google Chrome, while with lots of extensions and themes, and convenient apps, is better for someone who uses the internet regularly and uses lots of social networking and has Gmail and stuff than someone who just needs to google something every once in a while.

I agree the 90 degree thing is the biggest downfall

[Axilus Prime]

Paint before 7 has transparent select. PLUS the fact that you can change what color turns transparent. 7's only works on Bitmaps.GIMP's transparency is actually a bit more difficult to work with.

[Blessed Blade]

Is it just me, or did 7 downgrade Paint even further than was once thought possible? 0_oTo add to 7 flaws...When zoomed in, the 'hitbox' of sorts for the pixel doesn't change: It won't colour the pixel, unless you hit a very specific spot, and trying to find that with the huge pencil tool they give you is nearly impossible, without hitting the other spaces too.There's a reason I'm relying on my laptop(Which has a sketchy hard drive) to do my spriting. xD

[Lime Paradox]

Yeah Windows 7 Paint is kind of terrible, especially for working with spritesIt's actually one of the many reasons I don't make sprite comics anymore

[iPenguin]

Because paint sucks.

GIMPPaint

The paint one actually looked better. Edited July 18, 2012 by Summer Don't Know

[Dralcax]

Because paint sucks.

GIMPPaint

The paint one actually looked better.

That's because, since a virus wiped my Pictures folder clean, the best GIMP thing I had left was an old avatar from my old comics. But the one in Paint was pretty recent.

[Watashi Wa]

Moving to COT, since this has nothing to do with BZPower itself...

[Cambion]

Is it just me, or did 7 downgrade Paint even further than was once thought possible? 0_o

Yes, definitely. There are a significant number of features that are missing from Paint 2010 that were in previous versions. I would know--I use Paint over Gimp for most small-scale editing, because it's much faster and easier when you just want to reduce an image's size or some such thing (although I do know my way around Gimp). Thankfully my main computer uses XP.

[Darcsyde]

It's like a box of colored pencils versus a full-blown art studio. Some people can do really awesome things with it (Lavaside Rahi), but for the most part it isn't looked on as being very professional.

[Blessed Blade]

Is it just me, or did 7 downgrade Paint even further than was once thought possible? 0_o

Yes, definitely. There are a significant number of features that are missing from Paint 2010 that were in previous versions. I would know--I use Paint over Gimp for most small-scale editing, because it's much faster and easier when you just want to reduce an image's size or some such thing (although I do know my way around Gimp). Thankfully my main computer uses XP.

That's what I thought. Well, I'm thankful now that my laptop can only run XP; it has my gratitude, otherwise my very short attempt at spriting stuff again would already be over. =P

[~kh]

Pixel art is a matter of dragging and dropping. Someone used a great word for it, building. They build their work rather than draw it.

I think you're confusing pixel art with general sprite comic making here, but yeah.I'm assuming that you (tent163phantoka) are referring to making comics with MSPaint, so I'll work off there.You can definitely use MSPaint for comics, but there's several things about it that just make it less than optimal, at least for my style of work. The greatest drawback for me is the fact that (at least, up to the version that I used to use) you cannot edit text after you have typed it. While it doesn't take too long to remedy, it can get very tiring after a while.It really depends on what you want to do with your series, but you're welcome to try whatever tool you think is necessary. The only thing I will advise against, however, is trying to make a photorealistic series with MSPaint. There is just too many things that you need to do to pull that off that would just take hours to begin to replicate in Paint.Like Philbert said, there's also a lot of connotation with MSPaint with its history of easy access and poorly made comics. Many comic makers will refer to "comics made with MSPaint" as not a direct insult or insinuation that the program can't be used to make anything good, but mainly referring to a point in time when most comics were made with Paint and were, shall we say, less than acceptable quality.Programs don't automatically make you a better artist, and it's easy enough to make terrible comics in GIMP/Photoshop/Paint.Net/any other program and possible to make great comics with all of them. So really, as long as you focus your talent and keep improving your work, it doesn't matter what program you use.

[Makuta Luroka]

@kahinuva: your point is perfectly valid in that the ability to make bad comics does not vary, however, like others have said before me, various other freeware programs, such as GIMP and PDN, exist that are far more versatile. one could theoretically produce the same end result with either one (although you'll need GIMP for any .gif animations), but with MSPaint, the task would demand an elephantine amount of time and effort.