Shelek's use

[Zidonaro]

Aside from being associated with Makuta, what's so wrong about a Toa using the mask to his advantage against an enemy ? It's not like he will hurt or kill his enemy.

 

EDIT: I don't see a problem with the Kanohi Crast also. It's basically a powered-up version of the Hau.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Zidonaro

[Irrie]

You have a very good point, as it is probably one of the less dangerous of the Makuta Masks. I think that it is considered immoral because of how it was associated with The Brotherhood, not because of its actual power. 

[The Skakdi Chronicler]

Yeah, according to BS01 it's because of its association with the brotherhood

[Zidonaro]

Well, Toa are losing the chance to use pretty good masks.

 

Kopaka using the Shelek to shut up Lewa's mouth.

 

Yeah, according to BS01 it's because of its association with the brotherhood

 

I don't understand why they wouldn't use just because Makuta uses it. It's not like they're going to use them for the same purpose as the Makuta. Why the mask should have a bad reputation just because a bad being is using it ? A mask is just a tool.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Zidonaro

[Regitnui]

So is a gas chamber as a method of execution, but nobody uses them either, because of their association with bad people.

[bonesiii]

You're assuming that Toa are perfectly logical beings. But even humans usually aren't.

[fishers64]

Things become associated with evil over time because of how they are used. For example:

 

 

That's just my name, in red on black. Upon seeing it, your mind most likely conjured the word "evil."

 

However, there is nothing inherently wrong with the color red, there is nothing wrong with the color black, and there is nothing wrong with mixing them together.  Now imagine some friendly aliens showing up in a red and black spaceship with "MUHAHAAHAA" printed on the side of it and all of us on the ground meeting them nervously with canons and machine guns. 

 

Exactly. 

[Archius]

 

 

• Toa would not normally wear this mask, due to its association with Makuta.

 

"Normally"

 

I can totally see a more edgy Toa using these Makuta masks. It should be rare, but still.

[Doctor Makuta]

The Swastika is a symbol that many cultures have used or had a form of. However as the Nazis used it people tend to associate it with them. Even though for example in Hinduism it represents God in his universal manifestation, and energy, as well as other things.

[The Meta Knight]

Have any of you stopped to consider the actual appearance of a Great Shelek?

 

 

It looks like a vampire's face. I wouldn't want to use that if I were a Toa. (a non-traditionally crafted version aside, but just the regular version of the mask itself was probably super rare, so I doubt there were many of those around)

[Irrie]

Have any of you stopped to consider the actual appearance of a Great Shelek?

 It looks like a vampire's face. I wouldn't want to use that if I were a Toa. (a non-traditionally crafted version aside, but just the regular version of the mask itself was probably super rare, so I doubt there were many of those around)

In fairness, this looks like an alien.

Plus, the Shelek that Chirox used was mutated to match his bat-like appearance. 

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

Have any of you stopped to consider the actual appearance of a Great Shelek?

It looks like a vampire's face. I wouldn't want to use that if I were a Toa. (a non-traditionally crafted version aside, but just the regular version of the mask itself was probably super rare, so I doubt there were many of those around)

In fairness, this looks like an alien.

Plus, the Shelek that Chirox used was mutated to match his bat-like appearance.

Mutated? Makuta can shapeshift, remember? Also, if you remove the ridge-littered exterior and the fangs of that Shelek, you get the standard form of said Kanohi.

[The Meta Knight]

 

Have any of you stopped to consider the actual appearance of a Great Shelek?

 It looks like a vampire's face. I wouldn't want to use that if I were a Toa. (a non-traditionally crafted version aside, but just the regular version of the mask itself was probably super rare, so I doubt there were many of those around)

In fairness, this looks like an alien.

Plus, the Shelek that Chirox used was mutated to match his bat-like appearance. 

 

 

'Twas more of a joke, although my mind did kinda skip over the mutated part....

[TERIDAX941]

 

 

Have any of you stopped to consider the actual appearance of a Great Shelek?

 It looks like a vampire's face. I wouldn't want to use that if I were a Toa. (a non-traditionally crafted version aside, but just the regular version of the mask itself was probably super rare, so I doubt there were many of those around)

In fairness, this looks like an alien.

Plus, the Shelek that Chirox used was mutated to match his bat-like appearance. 

 

 

'Twas more of a joke, although my mind did kinda skip over the mutated part....

 

 

 

It was confirmed that all the Makuta masks had been shapeshifted (or mutated if you're talking about the Mistika) to be given their current form. Antroz's in particular gave his own mask poisoned fangs that he used in battle (creepy I know)

[Takhamavahu]

They wanted all the Makutas' masks to be "immoral" but for some of them, there's nothing wrong with them, so they went with "because a Makuta has it". Also that Crast "repels nature itself" is flowery nonsense trying to make a cool and very useful mask sound bad.

Jutlin and Avsa are pretty terrible and destructive and Felnas is pretty harsh.

Mohtrek you shouldn't use because it's a terrible idea, not because there's anything evil about it.

Tryna and the Mask of Scavenging might make you uncomfortable, but in an emergency, you might not have a choice.

There is nothing wrong at all with Shelek or especially Crast.

Regardless, they are all called immoral because the Makuta wear them (except Tryna because it's yucky)

 

Yet, the mask of Mutation, which forcibly changes a person's biology against their will, is okay because Miserix, who is and always has been a colossal dumpsack didn't technically rebel against Mata Nui.

 

And technically righteous is the best kind of righteous.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Yeah, I guess it is because of the Brotherhood association and that's it really. Takhamavahu makes a good point about the Mask of Mutation... I guess whatever organization deems masks as immoral are a little prejudiced

 

-NotS

[TERIDAX941]

Yeah, I guess it is because of the Brotherhood association and that's it really. Takhamavahu makes a good point about the Mask of Mutation... I guess whatever organization deems masks as immoral are a little prejudiced

 

-NotS

I'd blame the Order for dubbing such masks immoral, and then "hinting" to the Matoran and Toa that they were. If anyone is prejudice against the Brotherhood it'd be them hahaha

[Iblis]

I'd blame the Order for dubbing such masks immoral, and then "hinting" to the Matoran and Toa that they were. If anyone is prejudice against the Brotherhood it'd be them hahaha

 

IDK, they seem a bit more pragmatic than that, but them using those masks doesn't prevent them from trying to get others to think they're bad... so probably xD

[DatNerdyKid]

From memory (not sure if this has already been stated) the Toa did not in fact view the Shelek as an immoral mask-they wouldn't wear it often due to it's association with the BoM, but didn't consider it's power immoral. Though with the Crast it was deemed immoral because it could 'repel nature' (I don't get it either)

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

I'd use the Shelek if I had one.

 

I guess if Toa thought it evil because of its association, that gave the Makuta an advantage though.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Pohatu: Master of Stone

[The Meta Knight]

It doesn't sound immoral to me, and I'm pretty well learned regarding the concept of morality. I suppose (like any Great Mask) it all depends on how you use it and to what ends. The likely reason it's considered immoral to Toa is it has more bad uses than good, and therefore shouldn't be used in place of a potentially more useful masks. Think about it. A Great Garai could be used to prevent a falling pillar from crushing a group of Matoran, and a Great Akaku could be used to find a Matoran who got himself lost in the drifts, but a Great Shelek couldn't really do a whole lot in similar situations. It might be used to deafen an angry Muaka while a Matoran escapes the beast unnoticed, but that's about it. 

 

Also take the Code of Chivalry into account. Let's say a Toa got into a duel with a Makuta. The only things they are aloud to utilize in said duel (hypothetically) are their elemental powers, weapons, and Masks. The Makuta uses his Great Shelek to deafen his opponent while he sneaks up behind him. Not only would a sneak attack be bad in said situation, but the use of his Shelek to null one of his opponents chief senses would be considerably amoral. In that regard, even the Crast could be considered immoral, whereas a more generic Kanohi such as a Garai could be used to lift stones and fling them at the Toa's opponent, which would probably be OK.

 

Also in that regard, the Toa could use his Garai to simply lift the Makuta and throw him into the distance, which could be considered immoral in that regard as well, again supporting my original statement that it's all about how a Great Mask is used, not what the Mask is.

[UnderscoreChronix]

I actually never noticed how cool the Crast is. It's a shame we never got the un-mutated version from TLG.