The Official RPG Planning Topic

[JiMing]

 

 

The Enforcer can negate the innate resistances to the elements with their Power Canceller ability, to even the playing field.

After all, if you're fighting against another toa of fire, then you're going to basically be in a game of 'who can play hot potato the longest without trying to stab the other guy', which isn't quite fun.

 

 

If Ta-Toa lose their heat resistance, than do Po-Toa lose their endurance or Ba-Toa their resistance to pressure? Part of playing a Toa is their elemental affinity, even if it is not used as often as the other pieces.

 

If two fire Toa start fighting each other they simply need to think outside of "Shoot fireball, hope it hits." They should be doing that anyway. Explosions that use the impact rather than the heat to kill, drawing all the heat from an area to freeze something, even just going ahead and stabbing the other guy with your nice sharp sword.

 

Fight smarter, not with debuffs.

How about Fire Toa would have their fire resistance made less effective, but still there? As in, they don't go in to No Sell mode from heat but the damage taken would be not very effective.

 

Trying to come up with a good compromise and that was my first thought.

[Silvan Haven]

A Ta-Toa's elemental resistance does have limits, but unless they happen to be swimming in lava, ambient heat is not going to bother them.

[Chro]

At this point it looks like we may ditch the Toa-only rule. It was put in place initially to prevent physical size disparity from having too large of an effect (pardon the pun) on combat. However, I've realized that if a fighter enters the battle as a Matoran, size disadvantage is their own fault... and the staff can simply deny any requests for characters of unfair size (eg. Botaresque).

With this system in place, innate Toa abilities such as heat resistance and strength would count as powers.

I've proposed it to Blade, and I still have to talk to Tex about this before we implement it, but that's my own personal idea for what we should do.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Chro

[Blessed Blade]

Actually; that's one big thing I never took into consideration here; were you thinking that the elemental resistance would eliminate the damage entirely; or would it simply reduce its effectiveness? Or were you meaning the heat damagefrom the Great Furnace? Because I know that in Ultimate there were power-ups that basically allowed the negation of that, so that could be one thing.

 

Admittedly, I totally forgot the Great Furnace damage was a thing, but it also is based on the HP system, which is very likely on its way out, so it'll need to be overhauled.

[Arzaki]

Maybe if your character is resistant to heat, he or she would take 1 damage every 2 or 3 rounds instead of every round?

[Silvan Haven]

I was talking about The Great Furnace, yes. It was why I said I was relieved I could stop having to be confused about it.

 

 

With this system in place, innate Toa abilities such as heat resistance and strength would count as powers.

 

I take it that all Toa are going to be Martial Artists or something along those lines?

 

Maybe if your character is resistant to heat, he or she would take 1 damage every 2 or 3 rounds instead of every round?

 

Its a TBRPG, there are no rounds.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Silvan Haven

[Unit#phntk#1]

Maybe if your character is resistant to heat, he or she would take 1 damage every 2 or 3 rounds instead of every round?

If the HP system is going out, it'd probably be better to have non-resistant players be slightly weakened/drained from the temperature. Or else have random blasts of fire from the furnace.

 

 

~Unit#phntk#1

[Voltex]

I have several ideas for how to rework things in addition to what others have said.

 

Silvan, as to your apology: totally fine. I was expecting (and hoping) for some tough love, because I want the RPG to be as good as possible. Thank you for being honest, and I apologize of I too seem cranky at all

 

Anyway i'll be back on within the hour to finish revisions and such.

[JiMing]

I was talking about The Great Furnace, yes. It was why I said I was relieved I could stop having to be confused about it.

 

 

With this system in place, innate Toa abilities such as heat resistance and strength would count as powers.

 

I take it that all Toa are going to be Martial Artists or something along those lines?

 

Fighting style should be mostly separate from powers. I don't think Voltex, Blade, and Chro are THAT cruel.

 

Maybe if your character is resistant to heat, he or she would take 1 damage every 2 or 3 rounds instead of every round?

 

Its a TBRPG, there are no rounds.

 

If by no rounds, you mean the battle just goes on until it ends with no interruptions, then yeah, there are no rounds. If you're subtly saying that the whole battle cycle system should be abandoned, just say that outright. =P

Bolded parts are my responses.

[Blessed Blade]

I was talking about The Great Furnace, yes. It was why I said I was relieved I could stop having to be confused about it.

Ohhhhh, I see; I must've misread that part. >>''

 

 

Maybe if your character is resistant to heat, he or she would take 1 damage every 2 or 3 rounds instead of every round?

 

Its a TBRPG, there are no rounds.

 

I think Arzaki meant days in this case. xP

 

... In fact, I nearly typed rounds instead of days there. >>'''

 

/EDIT: Silvan meant that there are no interruptions; Silvan thought that Arzaki was trying to say there were turns in the game, when Arzaki meant to say days, which is how the environmental damage worked before.

Edited January 16, 2015 by An/A Blade

[Chro]

Actually; that's one big thing I never took into consideration here; were you thinking that the elemental resistance would eliminate the damage entirely; or would it simply reduce its effectiveness? Or were you meaning the heat damagefrom the Great Furnace? Because I know that in Ultimate there were power-ups that basically allowed the negation of that, so that could be one thing.

 

Admittedly, I totally forgot the Great Furnace damage was a thing, but it also is based on the HP system, which is very likely on its way out, so it'll need to be overhauled.

Those were Firebombs, which could be used on the ice map to negate chill damage. They actually did extra damage in the Furnace.

[Silvan Haven]

 

Fighting style should be mostly separate from powers. I don't think Voltex, Blade, and Chro are THAT cruel.

 

What I meant is that Toa normally have three things used in combat. Elemental powers, mask, and some sort of Toa Tool. If passive powers that every single Toa has is included in the list of stuff that takes a slot something important needs to be dropped.

 

Its like telling a person that they are going to have to fight blind because they have better eyesight than others. Not quite as extreme but similar enough to use as an example..

[Blessed Blade]

 

Actually; that's one big thing I never took into consideration here; were you thinking that the elemental resistance would eliminate the damage entirely; or would it simply reduce its effectiveness? Or were you meaning the heat damagefrom the Great Furnace? Because I know that in Ultimate there were power-ups that basically allowed the negation of that, so that could be one thing.

 

Admittedly, I totally forgot the Great Furnace damage was a thing, but it also is based on the HP system, which is very likely on its way out, so it'll need to be overhauled.

Those were Firebombs, which could be used on the ice map to negate chill damage. They actually did extra damage in the Furnace.

 

 

Hm, true, I thought there was one to negate heat damage. xD

 

 

Fighting style should be mostly separate from powers. I don't think Voltex, Blade, and Chro are THAT cruel.

 

What I meant is that Toa normally have three things used in combat. Elemental powers, mask, and some sort of Toa Tool. If passive powers that every single Toa has is included in the list of stuff that takes a slot something important needs to be dropped.

 

Its like telling a person that they are going to have to fight blind because they have better eyesight than others. Not quite as extreme but similar enough to use as an example..

 

Well, then, since the earlier misunderstanding was about the passive heat damage; in your opinion, would, in your opinion, Toa of Fire take even just lower damage from fire-based attacks? Because I don't totally see a problem in just reduced damage, really.

[Nato G]

I agree with Silvan. I've always seen a Toa's passive abilities as being part of their biology rather than an actual power. If you wanted to get rid of that sort of thing I'd almost suggest using a race like Glatorian or something, that doesn't have any sort of passive abilities to begin with. 

[JiMing]

I agree with Silvan. I've always seen a Toa's passive abilities as being part of their biology rather than an actual power. If you wanted to get rid of that sort of thing I'd almost suggest using a race like Glatorian or something, that doesn't have any sort of passive abilities to begin with. 

 

 

 

Actually; that's one big thing I never took into consideration here; were you thinking that the elemental resistance would eliminate the damage entirely; or would it simply reduce its effectiveness? Or were you meaning the heat damagefrom the Great Furnace? Because I know that in Ultimate there were power-ups that basically allowed the negation of that, so that could be one thing.

 

Admittedly, I totally forgot the Great Furnace damage was a thing, but it also is based on the HP system, which is very likely on its way out, so it'll need to be overhauled.

Those were Firebombs, which could be used on the ice map to negate chill damage. They actually did extra damage in the Furnace.

 

Hm, true, I thought there was one to negate heat damage. xD

 

 

Fighting style should be mostly separate from powers. I don't think Voltex, Blade, and Chro are THAT cruel.

 

What I meant is that Toa normally have three things used in combat. Elemental powers, mask, and some sort of Toa Tool. If passive powers that every single Toa has is included in the list of stuff that takes a slot something important needs to be dropped.

 

Its like telling a person that they are going to have to fight blind because they have better eyesight than others. Not quite as extreme but similar enough to use as an example..

 

Well, then, since the earlier misunderstanding was about the passive heat damage; in your opinion, would, in your opinion, Toa of Fire take even just lower damage from fire-based attacks? Because I don't totally see a problem in just reduced damage, really.

I think you kiiinda got ninja'd there a bit.

 

Our bad.

[Chro]

Our bad.

We're not officially affiliated with this cool dude

 

(Your help is greatly appreciated Ji, but we've got this covered for now )

[Silvan Haven]

If somebody was just blowing flames at one its probably just going to wash over the Ta-Toa. If somebody tried a grenade or an exploding fireball it would certainly hurt them, most of that is concussive energy. Tossing one into a vat of molten metal would also work.

 

So, something more like low tier fire attacks go to non-effective, medium tier go to low tier, and high tier attacks would be like medium tier. That would be if you wanted to turn everything into a game mechanic.

[JiMing]

 

Our bad.

We're not officially affiliated with this cool dude

 

(Your help is greatly appreciated Ji, but we've got this covered for now )

 

what do you mean im the most important guy here i mean duuuuh isnt it obvious

 

(You took ten minutes to reply, but I understand. As a player of three previous Bionifight games I just feel like I should answer the questions I can, to help out anyways.)

[Blessed Blade]

Well, it doesn't even need to be a game mechanic, just common sense; it's just understanding whether it should be thought that they should just absorb it or not that was the question. xP

 

That all makes sense, though. /nods.

[Silvan Haven]

A Ta-Toa would need to focus on the heat in order to absorb it and breaking that concentration would make him stop.

 

A good player could use that to up the amount of heat their character could take. However, its hardly a combat move and they can only hold so much energy.

[Voltex]

A Ta-Toa would need to focus on the heat in order to absorb it and breaking that concentration would make him stop.

 

A good player could use that to up the amount of heat their character could take. However, its hardly a combat move and they can only hold so much energy.

 

In the old Bionifight games, the standard resistances never really applied - however, while not outright stated, I felt like it made sense in an RPG to keep the resistance thing normal. If I had intended for a Toa of Fire's resistances to count as powers, I definitely would have specified that both in the game post and with Blade+Chro (who would have subsequently - hopefully - slapped me)

[Chro]

Sorry about that. I was thinking of it separately due to the fact that in both incarnations of Ultimate, different characters with the same power were by no means immune to said power (I think I killed Ric's Ta-Toa with a fireball once). In fact, some people had issues involving hurting themselves with their own power, Blade being one of the most notable examples (electricity and Mahri Nui don't mix). However, with the adaption to a TBRPG format it does make sense that an elementally-affiliated resistance would go along with control of that element.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Chro

[Snelly]

Here's a question about Bionifight. How would you deal with like, characters becoming knocked out, fatigued, or otherwise unable to fight? I mean they might not necessary get 'killed' in the arena if they're left incapacitated or unconscious. Are they still in the fight or do they get booted out? Cause I could see a Toa of Air suffocating someone to knock them unconscious or a Toa of ice leaving someone frozen in place, unable to free themselves.

 

Just curious how situations like that would work. 

Edited January 16, 2015 by Skitty

[shadow pridak money gang]

Wasn't that one of Tyler's suggestions over on Skype? You just changed Matoran and Panzer around. 

 

uhhh...no

 

-Tyler

[Chro]

Here's a question about Bionifight. How would you deal with like, characters becoming knocked out, fatigued, or otherwise unable to fight? I mean they might not necessary get 'killed' in the arena if they're left incapacitated or unconscious. Are they still in the fight or do they get booted out? Cause I could see a Toa of Air suffocating someone to knock them unconscious or a Toa of ice leaving someone frozen in place, unable to free themselves.

 

Just curious how situations like that would work. 

Once a player has been KO'd they'll be removed from the arena, physically restored, and returned to the locker rooms.

[JiMing]

Would the Enforcer cut off overpowered techniques as they are happening and penalize the initiator of the attack? I mean, if Bionifight is a tournament, then it's entertainment for an audience to watch.... And I don't think the audience likes techniques that cut a match short.

[Nato G]

 

Wasn't that one of Tyler's suggestions over on Skype? You just changed Matoran and Panzer around. 

 

uhhh...no

 

-Tyler

 

 

Wait, it was Krayz. My bad. 

[Silvan Haven]

 

Here's a question about Bionifight. How would you deal with like, characters becoming knocked out, fatigued, or otherwise unable to fight? I mean they might not necessary get 'killed' in the arena if they're left incapacitated or unconscious. Are they still in the fight or do they get booted out? Cause I could see a Toa of Air suffocating someone to knock them unconscious or a Toa of ice leaving someone frozen in place, unable to free themselves.

 

Just curious how situations like that would work. 

Once a player has been KO'd they'll be removed from the arena, physically restored, and returned to the locker rooms.

 

 

If its a technique that mean that the person is using skill, not power. If you can't win the tournament through skill than its kind of broken.

[Nato G]

Would the Enforcer cut off overpowered techniques as they are happening and penalize the initiator of the attack? I mean, if Bionifight is a tournament, then it's entertainment for an audience to watch.... And I don't think the audience likes techniques that cut a match short.

 

Well, that's unfair on the people who've put the time and effort into coming up with effective techniques, isn't it? The idea of a fight is to defeat your opponent through whatever means are necessary. Who cares if it's entertaining to watch or not? 

 

Besides, I don't think there's been any mention of an audience aside from the organisers themselves. 

Edited January 16, 2015 by Roman Torchwick

[Voltex]

 

Would the Enforcer cut off overpowered techniques as they are happening and penalize the initiator of the attack? I mean, if Bionifight is a tournament, then it's entertainment for an audience to watch.... And I don't think the audience likes techniques that cut a match short.

 

Well, that's unfair on the people who've put the time and effort into coming up with effective techniques, isn't it? The idea of a fight is to defeat your opponent through whatever means are necessary. Who cares if it's entertaining to watch or not? 

 

Besides, I don't think there's been any mention of an audience aside from the organisers themselves. 

 

 

Apparently in my absence an audience might have been added, but we're going through and seeing if that would actually benefit the RPG in any way.

[JiMing]

True, it's not the fact that techniques exist that I'm worried about. If a character is skilled enough to pull them off, then sure.

 

The problem is, that there's no limit to how skilled you can set your character as. And there are those techniques like removing all airs from the lungs and flash freezing someone that are a, unable to be guarded against, and b, guarantee a quick and easy victory with little effort.

 

See, this is where I think fun vs. realism comes in..... While it would be more realistic to have your Le-Toa to immediately suffocate everyone in sight, that is both a mindlessly easy way to win and frustrating for the other players who wanted a good fight. And I fall under those kind of players. 

 

And if it's not for an audience's amusement, then it's for the Queen and Host's amusement. And tell me, just how fun is it to hype up for an awesome battle that'll be filled with high stakes action and flashy moves, only for one fighter to flick their wrist and cause everyone to drop dead?

[Chro]

The concept of spectators has come up, but I don't recall having said anything about that in this topic.

[Nato G]

True, it's not the fact that techniques exist that I'm worried about. If a character is skilled enough to pull them off, then sure.

 

The problem is, that there's no limit to how skilled you can set your character as. And there are those techniques like removing all airs from the lungs and flash freezing someone that are a, unable to be guarded against, and b, guarantee a quick and easy victory with little effort.

 

 

Here in the RPG forum that sort of thing - striking an opponent without the player's consent - is called autohitting, and is agaisnt the rules of every game I've ever seen here. I was assuming the same logic would apply to Bionifight. Unless it doesn't?

[Blessed Blade]

It does apply to Bionifight, people who go against that would be having a very nice chat with The Enforcer.

[Silvan Haven]

There is also the fact that those moves take time to pull off and require a certain level of concentration. Just have your guy break that concentration and all the wonderful air comes back.

 

Its also something that could be solved with a simple request to players. "Please don't use insta-kill moves. Nobody likes losing without the chance to fight back and it breaks the game."

Edited January 16, 2015 by Silvan Haven

[Chro]

Its also something that could be solved with a simple request to players. "Please don't use insta-kill moves. Nobody likes losing without the chance to fight back and it breaks the game."

It's assumed that no player would intentionally do that, but to be sure we'll likely include something along those lines.

[JiMing]

 

True, it's not the fact that techniques exist that I'm worried about. If a character is skilled enough to pull them off, then sure.

 

The problem is, that there's no limit to how skilled you can set your character as. And there are those techniques like removing all airs from the lungs and flash freezing someone that are a, unable to be guarded against, and b, guarantee a quick and easy victory with little effort.

 

 

Here in the RPG forum that sort of thing - striking an opponent without the player's consent - is called autohitting, and is agaisnt the rules of every game I've ever seen here. I was assuming the same logic would apply to Bionifight. Unless it doesn't?

 

There is also the fact that those moves take time to pull off and require a certain level of concentration. Just have your guy break that concentration and all the wonderful air comes back.

 

Its also something that could be solved with a simple request to players. "Please don't use insta-kill moves. Nobody likes losing without the chance to fight back and it breaks the game."

That was actually my whole train of thought here. Lesser techniques that are powerful but not game breaking I do not oppose, and the techniques that ARE game breakers I'm glad there will likely be a rule against that (and an in-story punishment to boot).

 

So I'm glad to see it looks like we all agree.

[Arzaki]

I think that if you do a really powerful attack, you have like a 75% chance to hit the target, and if you miss, you get screwed over and it completely backfires. It would be a risk-reward system, and would likely decrease the amount of OP abilities used.

[Voltex]

I believe that the revised version is almost ready to be posted; when it is, please point out anything that hasn't changed if we said that we would change it, as it is entirely possible that we forgot something.

[Nato G]

I think that if you do a really powerful attack, you have like a 75% chance to hit the target, and if you miss, you get screwed over and it completely backfires. It would be a risk-reward system, and would likely decrease the amount of OP abilities used.

 

I think that would be ridiculously hard to regulate. Just play it the way everything else in this forum is played: fairly. If someone throws a powerful attack your way and there's no way you can block it or dodge it, just take it like a man. Don't overcomplicate things.