Patient Counseling - OOC Topic

[shadow pridak money gang]

 

 

 

Really.

 

Most of it isn't about you, but you happen to also be taking the hits when they throw them at me, making it seem as though they're naturally opposed to you for no reason. And these people have respected the authority of RPG owners from every other RPG except ours, meaning it's based around personal bias from the playerbase.

 

I've told them before, if they don't like the game, Leave. They apparently do, because they're trying to run things their way, by their thought processes, which won't work, because half of them don't know how to run one of these, much less a horror strategy game where all Karz goes loose.

 

 

Well, that's just offensive to all the seasoned RPers who decided to give this game a shot. Congrats, Ghidora. Ben's the reasonable one again.

 

-Tyler

[IcarusBen]

Oh, Karz. Tyler's calling me the "reasonable one" again. It's gonna snow in Egypt now, isn't it?

 

Edited May 21, 2015 by IcarusBen

[shadow pridak money gang]

I don't dislike you as much as you think.

 

Mainly because I don't think you're dog stupid enough to ridicule and minimize every one of your players as stupid goons who have no idea how to run an RPG. Especially if they think they have the experience to run a "horror strategy" game with only a handful of God awful comedies that made the critic who was assigned to review them want to try and immolate himself.

 

Ben, I'm going to echo Tiragath and say that you just need more experience and time to get to know the RPing community, see what the pulse is on what they like and dislike. Ghidora, sell your keyboard to a Best Buy somewhere. Let someone who knows how to run it put it to good use.

 

-Tyler

[Nato G]

Two; Ghidora has given me permission to leak a private message to you guys.

 

Um.... you do understand what the word leak means, right? If he gave you permission, it aint a leak. 

 

 

While it may make sense to you, asking for permission before killing someone is NOT a rule, nor is it common sense. It has never been in any RPG and never will be. It's more along the lines of Players wanting to do whatever they want because 1) they don't see the main GM characters as authoritative figures and 2) they have little respect for me or my thoughts.

 

 

Jeez.... I wonder why? It might have something to do with your constant abuse of your GM powers, and the way you treat all of your PCs - even your freaking NPCs - like Mary Sues. 

 

 

And these people have respected the authority of RPG owners from every other RPG except ours, meaning it's based around personal bias from the playerbase.

 

 

No, it's not personal bias at all. The owners of all those other RPGs are able to run their games in ways that don't annoy or alienate their players. The fact that you guys are continually trying to blame us players for your own failings makes it pretty clear to me that you guys just aren't ready for GMing. It's been said before; I'll say it as well: you guys need more experience. 

 

 

They apparently do, because they're trying to run things their way, by their thought processes, which won't work, because half of them don't know how to run one of these, much less a horror strategy game where all Karz goes loose.

 

 

Strategy? There was no strategy to this game, ever. Both of you have admitted that you're making up the plot as you go along, and that you've both failed to communicate effectively with each other. 

 

The whole point of a text-based RPG is that players are meant to build their own stories.

 

We weren't trying to run the game, we were only trying to play it. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Locus

[IcarusBen]

I don't dislike you as much as you think.

Wow. Tyler, that's actually the nicest thing you've said to me. I was worried I had someone earned your ire.

 

Clearly, Ghidora has more to worry about that I do.

 

@Locus; I probably should've said "disclose," eh? "Leak" just sounded better.

[The UltimoScorp]

I think we've all said our piece here. Unless someone else has anything more to add, I think it's best we wait for GSR to get back to us.

[IcarusBen]

Well, I think it's time to give an unsuccessful RP a fitting  sendoff.
 
GM IC Great Sprit Robot:
 
Rocks fall. Everybody dies.
 

 
Speaking of the ending, I want to know; what did work in this RP? What did you like? Edited May 21, 2015 by IcarusBen

[Kovika: Visorak Lord]

Well, the aspect of surviving in an asylum seemed interesting. Needs more crazies though.

Oh, and something you might consider adding if you try your hand at survival horror again: Make it even scarier than before. Remember A Skakdi Horror Story ? Might use that to help.

[Krayzikk]

EDIT: Whoops. I see that the conversation ended while I was typing this. Sorry.

 

 

 

Good Lord. After opening the floor to commentary, there'd be a lot more willingness to examine, and try to correct, the problems the players see. Because every player that has chimed in since then has been unanimous in believing those problems to exist, and in many cases, have agreed on exactly what those problems were. 

 

I have worked very, very hard to stay out of this completely, because I was of the opinion that the players had it handled. They should have had it handled just fine, but clearly, neither you nor Ghidora is listening. To that end I am chiming in once, just once, as both an RPG Judge and while I am loathe to apply the title to myself, veteran GM. I have a series of points to hit, and then I'm done.

 

Firstly, GM communication. You never fight in public. If you ever want to see what happens to a game when you do, and it's eerily similar to what's going down here, go look at the X-Men Darkest Days Discussion topic in OTC. That end was messy, and by the end of it, some very rude things were said on all sides. That is the road you start down when you fight with your Co-GM in public, and start failing to listen to a discontented playerbase. Asylum had the fortune of not having nearly enough energy to reach that critical mass, but it's a short slide. You need to listen to your players, and your Co-GM, and it's very clear looking at this topic over the past few weeks that neither of these things is occurring here. If your players felt they were being listened to, then you wouldn't have this massive outpouring of complaints. 

 

Secondly.... When you sign up to be a GM of a game, you're signing up to be responsible. Playing not only by your own rules, but to the highest standard the game has. If you are regularly defying the rules you outlined for players then there is a serious problem. Godmodding, autohitting, retconning, all of these are powers a GM has; they're also powers to be used with great irregularity. and never without proper consideration. If you have placed a staff character in a situation, or had them placed in one by reasonable actions, wherein they are in danger, you need to be able to deal with that. Be it by rationally talking to the player to sort it out, or by accepting that the character is done for, and talking it over with your Co-GM to figure out how to work around it.

That is not what has been seen here.

 

 

Two things, one; Locus, we haven't been trying to treat the GM characters as heroes. Well, maybe Nyhe as an anti-hero who sorta snapped, but definitely not Halmos.

 

I think the best way to describe it is if you're playing Morrowind, and are off to go and stop Dagoth Ur, only to discover that another adventurer was busy killing him already and you've arrived too late.

 

Actually, that's a really, really horrid way of putting it. It's really hard to describe.

 

Two; Ghidora has given me permission to leak a private message to you guys.

 

 

Okay, issue here.

 

While it may make sense to you, asking for permission before killing someone is NOT a rule, nor is it common sense. It has never been in any RPG and never will be. It's more along the lines of Players wanting to do whatever they want because 1) they don't see the main GM characters as authoritative figures and 2) they have little respect for me or my thoughts.

 

Really.

 

Most of it isn't about you, but you happen to also be taking the hits when they throw them at me, making it seem as though they're naturally opposed to you for no reason. And these people have respected the authority of RPG owners from every other RPG except ours, meaning it's based around personal bias from the playerbase.

 

I've told them before, if they don't like the game, Leave. They apparently do, because they're trying to run things their way, by their thought processes, which won't work, because half of them don't know how to run one of these, much less a horror strategy game where all Karz goes loose.

 

To sum it up, asking for permission for death is illogical because then barely anyone would die and there would be no challenge. And the only sensible people playing this game are the ones who will answer logically and reasonably in the OOC Topic from GSR's "question".

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything he says (though he does bring up some good points) but I wanted you guys to see his point of view.

 

And this.

 

...

I do not even know where to begin with this. The fact that that PM does not send you running for the hills, Icarus, does not speak well. Treating every GM except you two with respect? Respect, for one thing, is earned, and for another, you will find that every player base challenges every GM  when a problem is observed. The difference does not lie with that challenge, but with how GMs respond to it. You have responded, time and again, with justifications and heavy-handed actions. Rather than working with your playerbase, your Head GM literally has the opinion that it's your way or the high way. That isn't be putting words in his mouth, that's me paraphrasing the part where he says (directly quoting here) "if they don't like the game, leave".

 

Which, ironically, is exactly what has happened. 

 

Beyond that, the ludicrous jamming in of headcanons, godmodding, and that PM... That PM embodies everything anyone here has said about how not to run a game. Maybe Ghidora was in a bad mood when he wrote it, but that's the last thing you use to support a stance.

 

 

 

 

 

The bottom line, however, is that my advice is this; Let Asylum die with some dignity. Then, after that, go play more of the games here. Get to know the community, and build a rapport with your potential playerbase. After you've done that, and taken a break for a bit, start thinking about trying again. This one didn't work out, but there's no reason the next one won't. You have the capability to run a successful game, but you're coming at it from a direction where you don't actually know how to run one in this community yet.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Riku Tryon

[Timageness]

While not a rule per se, it should be pointed out that it is common courtesy to ask players if you can kill off their characters. The exception to this is that players must react to attacks made on their characters if said character is unconcious, or otherwise in a position where the attack would kill them, permission or not.

That being said, if I had to pick something that I personally liked, it would have to be the game's atmosphere towards the beginning. Maybe if it started a little earlier when the staff wasn't aware of the monster's capabilities or if it even existed in the first place, the game could've been prolonged a little bit more while keeping some of the tension. I'm actually kicking myself right now because I'm about to make a reference that I don't wholeheartedly agree with since I like the later entries in the series better, but from where it stands now, The Asylum appears to be suffering a bit from Resident Evil Syndrome; it was kind of creepy at first, but then it quickly became more action-oriented and lost sight of its original goal. I actually can't recall if there were any OOC issues that took place before everyone got their powers back, to be honest, which is yet another reason (at least to me, anyway) that I think that the actual story would've been better off if there was more time to explore that specific section of the game.

The monster was another cool concept at the beginning, but it might have been executed better if it started off as a more psychological threat and eventually built its way up towards making itself known near the end. For a being with access to every power that the patients had, I think it could've gotten away with a lot more if it had a more subtle approach at trying to kill people, such as mentally manipulating its victims into killing themselves and even each other or arranging a few "accidents" here and there. Of course, it would also need to be reasonably nerfed in some fashion for those actions to make more sense from a gameplay perspective, but sometimes that's just the price you have to pay to make something more interesting.

The idea for the RPG itself was interesting, it's just that the majority of the problems occured during the execution. Given some proper time for some additional development and some actual GM coordination, I don't see why the concept couldn't reappear somewhere down the line if you were dead-set on properly reviving it.

[Not Quite Dead]

Spooky stuff is great and I support any game with spook. But the spook here was quickly killed, as Tim up there said, it went from early Resident Evil to cheesy and narmy late Resident Evil waaaay fast.

 

Nothing to say regarding that PM that Tyler didn't already.

[IcarusBen]

@Riku; I kinda feel obiligated to stick around, even if Ghidora may be (and I feel completely justified in saying this) a bad GM. I'm not much better, mind you, but Ghidora has been a bit of a... Uh...

 

The point is that I didn't run to the hills a). because this PM was from yesterday and I didn't really have time and b). because I'd feel wrong if I just crucified him. Mind you, that PM apparently did that for me, but still...

 

As to everyone else... Yeah, swapping from Silent Hill SpOoKiNeSs to RE5 narmcharm was a bad, bad idea. I'll remember that next time. The Asylum, like a phoenix from the ashes, will return one day, having learning not to fly too close to the sun after slaying the vile Medusa.

 

I think I accidentally combined too many Greek myths.

 

Point being; next time, better GM communication, better rules established from the beginning, and keeping the spooky atmosphere longer.

 

Well... that's it. If anyone else has anything to share, feel free. Otherwise, this is IcarusBen, wishing you good luck and good night.

[Timageness]

Hmmm...

Now what to do with Sal in the meantime...?

Edited May 22, 2015 by Timageness

[Kovika: Visorak Lord]

How about a spar?

[GSR]

Well.  It seems like a conclusion has been reached here; unless there's a sudden surge of support and reasoning to keep it open, it looks like Asylum will be staying closed.

 

That said: I'd hoped it was implied in my post last night, but this was supposed to stay civil.  It's one thing to criticize a GM's abilities; it's another to start flat-out insulting him, even if you're frustrated.  Those of you who kept a clear head, thank you; those of you who didn't, I recommend leaving this topic until you can remember how to critique without name-calling. 

 

I'll be leaving this topic open a while longer, in the hopes that the discussion can still bring up some valid points of what did and didn't work for folks to learn from. 

[IcarusBen]

Thanks, GSR. You are truly, truly, truly outrageous.

 

Actually... That doesn't sound like a compliment. Sorry.

[25K Now!]

Thanks, GSR. You are truly, truly, truly outrageous.

 

Actually... That doesn't sound like a compliment. Sorry.

Jem and the Holograms was great.

 

He'll understand.

[Dane-gerous]

Just saying Ben, but the only that remotely creeped me out is Iyanu, and he was not even controlled by you.

[IcarusBen]

 

Thanks, GSR. You are truly, truly, truly outrageous.

Actually... That doesn't sound like a compliment. Sorry.

 

Jem and the Holograms was great.

 

He'll understand.

Ah, it's a Jem reference...

 

WAIT WHAT?! That makes it even worse!

[Voltex]

RIP Asylum

 

RIP Eman, you glorious Toa, you. o7

Edited May 23, 2015 by Lucina

[Kovika: Visorak Lord]

R.I.P. Kovika. Speaking in third person has never been weirder.

[IcarusBen]

R.I.P. Jorik. I hope I get to use you again someday.

 

R.I.P. Nyhe. You had some weird-###### character development, I'll tell you.

 

R.I.P. Monster. You [ERROR: EULOGY CORRUPT. INSERT BACKUP EULOGY.]

[The UltimoScorp]

speaking of which

 

 

 

What was the monster, anyway?

[Voltex]

One of the nightmares of Eman brought for into the real world, no doubt

 

Or maybe cthulu

[Kovika: Visorak Lord]

Perhaps it was a manifestation of the worst nightmares of Ben and Ghidora. Maybe it was a horror from the depths of Karzahni..

 

Or maybe it was just Chumpu.

[Space Urchin]

Well I don't have much to say at this point. Good run, until things turned sour. I still have yet to be in an RP that actually ended the way it was supposed to, ahaha... or one that I didn't have to drop out of. Oh well, that's my problem. My point is... it was kind of fun, things went wrong, and we didn't fix them right. See you guys around BZP. Maybe.

[IcarusBen]

speaking of which

 

 

 

What was the monster, anyway?

According to the original story, it was a by-product of improper use of the Siphon.

 

According to Ghidora's second version of the story, it was a Dark Hunter named Shadow Stealer.

 

In my second version of the story, it was a GB experiment gone horribly wrong and as such, it was sealed away underneath the island that now housed the Asylum. It found a way to harvest energy from the siphon and... yeah.

[Timageness]

Well that certainly explains the conflicting powers it possessed...

And of course now that the game has ended, I've come up with a design for Sal's mohawk, using a modified Krahka combiner head as a base. Unfortunately, as I still lack the parts to properly build it, it probably won't be seeing the light of day anytime soon.

R.I.P. Sal. Your general abrasiveness, temper, and unimplemented pyromania shall be missed.

[Ghidora131]

That depends. Do you have the instructions?

[Timageness]

For...?

[Tea-rex]

Am I the only one who would like to see what the original plans for the story were? (Before the week of non-posting).

Would we also be able to see the new plans for the story after the week of non-posting as well?

[IcarusBen]

The original plans (from what I remember) were basically a few more monster attacks, with Halmos being killed by/taken by the monster/then going into the (now ruined) Siphon on last time, only to find out that it was built atop a GB lab. The party would enter the lab, be chased by Bohrok down into a large central chamber, where they would find Halmos fused with the monster, big epic boss battle, GB lab is destroyed, Asylum is destroyed, everyone leaves.

 

Nyhe was a big part in that last half, with both of them needing to be alive during the first half.

 

After the week, though... IDK. It was a turbulent time and we didn't really have a plan.

[Timageness]

Ah... So Halmos needed to stay alive so we could kill him at the end of the game...

Interesting, though why did the kidnap attempt take place on Day Three IC? Considering that the event in question would've kicked off the tail end of the story, if everything worked out as planned, wouldn't the game have ended somewhere around Day 4/5? That seems kind of short for an RPG...

[Perp]

The original plans (from what I remember) were basically a few more monster attacks, with Halmos being killed by/taken by the monster/then going into the (now ruined) Siphon on last time, only to find out that it was built atop a GB lab. The party would enter the lab, be chased by Bohrok down into a large central chamber, where they would find Halmos fused with the monster, big epic boss battle, GB lab is destroyed, Asylum is destroyed, everyone leaves.

 

Nyhe was a big part in that last half, with both of them needing to be alive during the first half.

 

After the week, though... IDK. It was a turbulent time and we didn't really have a plan.

 

Well I guess it was mostly a success then, because you accomplished most of those goals, more or less.

 

• Halmos fused with the monster - egotistically, yes. Check that one off.

   

• Big epic boss battle - yeah, you got something like that with everyone attacking the monster. Check.

   

• You didn't list the monster being killed, even after the boss battle. That's pretty accurate. Check.

   

• Asylum is destroyed, everyone leaves. Dude, you accomplished the  outta this. If this was your plan for the end-game, I might have to say that the Asylum really was a success. Congratulations.

[IcarusBen]

Ah... So Halmos needed to stay alive so we could kill him at the end of the game...

Interesting, though why did the kidnap attempt take place on Day Three IC? Considering that the event in question would've kicked off the tail end of the story, if everything worked out as planned, wouldn't the game have ended somewhere around Day 4/5? That seems kind of short for an RPG...

I don't know... Ghidora did that without my permission...

 

 

The original plans (from what I remember) were basically a few more monster attacks, with Halmos being killed by/taken by the monster/then going into the (now ruined) Siphon on last time, only to find out that it was built atop a GB lab. The party would enter the lab, be chased by Bohrok down into a large central chamber, where they would find Halmos fused with the monster, big epic boss battle, GB lab is destroyed, Asylum is destroyed, everyone leaves.

 

Nyhe was a big part in that last half, with both of them needing to be alive during the first half.

 

After the week, though... IDK. It was a turbulent time and we didn't really have a plan.

Well I guess it was mostly a success then, because you accomplished most of those goals, more or less.

 

• Halmos fused with the monster - egotistically, yes. Check that one off.

   

• Big epic boss battle - yeah, you got something like that with everyone attacking the monster. Check.

   

• You didn't list the monster being killed, even after the boss battle. That's pretty accurate. Check.

   

• Asylum is destroyed, everyone leaves. Dude, you accomplished the ###### outta this. If this was your plan for the end-game, I might have to say that the Asylum really was a success. Congratulations.

 

See? I'm the GREATEST GM EVAR.

[Ghidora131]

AND that description was Ben's take on how things should have ended. In the original plan, it went like this:

 

 

Monster creates supposed chaos and destruction(illusion, we got a sample with Solitary) ending up dragging Halmos through a hole in the ground to an unknown location. Now Nyhe becomes the main hero of the game.

 

Hole leads into underground catacomb where lost GB work area is found, also overgrown crystals everywhere. HINT HINT: Halmos = Toa of Crystal, so suspicions arise.

 

Jorik's sketch becomes apparent here, as it is an accurate drawing of Shadow Stealer, who fools around with a failure GB project, plugging it into nearly limitless power supply below in hopes that Metru Nui will discover the energy and use it to power the city.

 

Guess who built a whole asylum over it.

 

 

Using the new species that the miniature monster is from, it rose into the siphon, using one of those as a cocoon, until it literally grew out of its intestines. Ew. Also, monster is soon found dead later with stringy yellow goop surrounding it, holding it to the wall.

 

A little ways more, Abbenidium is found. A whispering voice can be heard ordering it to attack. Surprise, its new ability lets it become intangible and act like a fluid, so good luck stopping it. MASSIVE CHASE SCENE where Abbenidium drives itself into the siphon by accident. Now siphons siphon things, and this one is designed to siphon powers. So when monster slams into it it literally sucks the life out of it. Oh yeah, system overload and blah blah blah BOOM.

 

Then guess who shows up: Shadow Stealer himself, who rains down Karz and kills wholesale more than the monster ever could at the asylum. |Causing so much chaos that the Makuta decide to get off their butts and do something about it. Eventually many Makuta arrive and destroy him, while the few that survive get the chance to achieve awards suddenly.

 

Asylum gets wiped clean by Makuta powers till it's just a big slab of concrete. Halmos pulls himself out of the hole in the ground after they all leave, except Nyhe, who is overjoyed to see his existence, even though his eyes got bleached, half of his muscle sapped away and his colors turned blue and black.

 

 

So no, I wasn't just "making it up as I go along", just trimming and twisting the original version.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ghidora131

[IcarusBen]

AND that description was Ben's take on how things should have ended. In the original plan, it went like this:

 

 

Monster creates supposed chaos and destruction(illusion, we got a sample with Solitary) ending up dragging Halmos through a hole in the ground to an unknown location. Now Nyhe becomes the main hero of the game.

 

Hole leads into underground catacomb where lost GB work area is found, also overgrown crystals everywhere. HINT HINT: Halmos = Toa of Crystal, so suspicions arise.

 

Jorik's sketch becomes apparent here, as it is an accurate drawing of Shadow Stealer, who fools around with a failure GB project, plugging it into nearly limitless power supply below in hopes that Metru Nui will discover the energy and use it to power the city.

 

Guess who built a whole asylum over it.

 

 

Using the new species that the miniature monster is from, it rose into the siphon, using one of those as a cocoon, until it literally grew out of its intestines. Ew. Also, monster is soon found dead later with stringy yellow goop surrounding it, holding it to the wall.

 

A little ways more, Abbenidium is found. A whispering voice can be heard ordering it to attack. Surprise, its new ability lets it become intangible and act like a fluid, so good luck stopping it. MASSIVE CHASE SCENE where Abbenidium drives itself into the siphon by accident. Now siphons siphon things, and this one is designed to siphon powers. So when monster slams into it it literally sucks the life out of it. Oh yeah, system overload and blah blah blah BOOM.

 

Then guess who shows up: Shadow Stealer himself, who rains down Karz and kills wholesale more than the monster ever could at the asylum. |Causing so much chaos that the Makuta decide to get off their butts and do something about it. Eventually many Makuta arrive and destroy him, while the few that survive get the chance to achieve awards suddenly.

 

Asylum gets wiped clean by Makuta powers till it's just a big slab of concrete. Halmos pulls himself out of the hole in the ground after they all leave, except Nyhe, who is overjoyed to see his existence, even though his eyes got bleached, half of his muscle sapped away and his colors turned blue and black.

 

 

So no, I wasn't just "making it up as I go along", just trimming and twisting the original version.

Nah, that was all added later. Mine is definitely closer to the original. Most of those details (Nyhe being the hero? Really?) were never even mentioned to me.

[Nato G]

So let me get this straight.... the two most detestable characters in the game were supposed to be the heroes? 

 

I think if you'd gone with that idea the game would've died far sooner....

[In Between the Shadows]

Hmm. What I thought was going to happen is similar to Ben's...

 

Though I agree with Locus up there.

[Dane-gerous]

I gotta agree with Locus here, that's pretty lame