Bzprpg News And Discussion

[Katuko]

Hmm... Ambages suggests to assault the ILS directly. Does anyboy else think of the deeping wall (or whatever it's called) at helm's deep when reminded of the secret stone?

Possibly. But they are packing more stone and iron on top of what's already there. They are thickening the wall, not replacing it. They would not be allowed to tear it down, that's for certain.And again, I must ask. Fifty NPCs marches in to execute a major build project with tech I'm not even sure we're allowed to have? What was the verdict on anti-elemental charges again? I'm not seeing those on Mata Nui.The current defenses, by the way: It's a wall of stone with some iron interlaced in it. Big metal gate that's not really a gate but more a shield that gets morphed into an opening when needed. If anyone wants to break the wall, all they need is to open it with a Toa of Stone, then follow up with something to get rid of the metal bars. It's been described as barely thick enough to stand on, so about one and a half foot. Original description was something along the lines of "it won't keep out Toa or flyers for long, but it keeps the Rahi away". Ditto for the sea fence. It's just to prevent a Tarakava from crawling up on shore. No illusions about keeping people out. If people get into Ta-Koro or Po-Koro, people get into Pala-Koro. Edited August 22, 2012 by Katuko

[Krayzikk]

EW says Nuju gave everything he is doing in Pala-Koro the AOK.So, everything is pre-approved.

[Katuko]

I still feel like calling BS. I'd have expected this Ambages dude to start work immediately, small scale, with maybe 5 workers, not take over the entire place with a horde of NPCs. Might as well just lay siege with the workers, instead of going through the trouble of having them apparently tear down the entire village and rebuild it from scratch, which would be 100% required toA] "Fix" the wall like he's apparently doing, since as said it's already standing complete and they would need to tear down parts of it to replace its "workings"andB] Replace the wooden huts with cobblestone huts, as was described.At this point, over the course of one post and a short time-skip, it ceases to be the village that a bunch of PCs have built over the course of a few months of RPG time and becomes a soulless box of NPC magic plot trigger. I ask again; where is the logic in elemental wards on Mata Nui? Where did the resources come from? I mean, a Vortixx or Skakdi PC character can bring one piece of tech each, and now apparently they have brought a few tons of the stuff needed to fuel the science that powers elemental fields. I realize Ambages might have been lying through his teeth about those, but then there's still the work being overseen by Pala-Koro's people; and I can't imagine installing fault blocks would work if the wall has a still-solid core OR someone is watching you break strips of it apart.If this is possible, then we ILS people - as PCs - should be able to build the darn Tower of Sauron with nothing but an IC post, our Toa of Stone and Iron, and the same time-skip where the NPC workers rebuild everything. Not like Madrihk would have anything better to do if they're tearing down the HQ to replace it with stone. Might as well order Kal and Ledzel and Onyx and Bane and everyone to use each day to raise the walls a bit taller, make them thicker, and then ignite the blazing fire of Mordor on top as a giant beacon.Or better: While the village lies flat from being rebuilt from the ground up, we could all skip off to Ta-Koro and make that fortress our new base; cooperate with the Guard and all that. Just chill in Vakama's chamber, y'know? Pre-existing location with at least two guard members on our side and Vakama to vouch for our success; wouldn't even require much of a setup.If you're wondering, yes, I'm a bit peeved. Not just because "lol, magic defenses... maybe?", or because I have been fooled IC - I fully expect attacks and backstabbing and some infiltrators (that are already there) - but because of this sudden horde of NPCs doing everything so... in the background. I know you all want to be powerful in this game, but darn, do it with the actual Makuta alliance group. Use PCs that masquerade as workers or something; spend some time and effort IC, for crying out loud.EDIT: Fixed some stuff the filter didn't catch.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Katuko

[Lara White]

I think it's acceptable if Nuju approved it. 'sides, it's technically not done yet.

[shadow pridak money gang]

Welp. This again. Wake me when it's over~-Teezy

[Padishah Mehmet II]

Welp. This again. Wake me when it's over~-Teezy

*resists temptation to make a Wake Me Up When September Ends reference*Other than that+1-Dovydas

[EmperorWhenua]

I understand some of the concerns, and before Katuko and I discuss things via PM, I feel I should address some more general concerns in the public manner because I know everyone will be curious and should know.The "elemental wards" are basically construction parts that restrict the use of elemental energy within a certain radius, by way of radiating the nullification. Think of it as an aura that blocks access to elemental powers. The way this wall is being made, the radiation is only being sent outwards, allowing the access of powers within the village walls but not without at a range of about half a kilometre. I know saying "elemental wards" sounds more like sigils in the blocks that ward off things via energies, but the reality is quite different. This disables an assaulter from being able to use their energies to destroy the wall. The wards themselves are connected via wires so that they are powered by a generator. I haven't thought about what sort of generator this is, but I imagine it runs on lightstones or something similar.As for the mystery blocks, they were randomly inserted into the standard bricks, meaning that they are mixed together in batches. The way they are different is not in the composition of the block material but rather something inside them that matches the density of the material, making it no different in virtually every way from the standard blocks from even a more studious view of them. I'll say what is inside them, though: A smaller cube that has explosive properties. The workers don't know about this, though, and there is only one of them who actually is aware of it. The Vortixx and Skakdi present are there contributing to the knowledge of the wards and general strength (respectively) so they don't know about the switch, either.The number of workers and the abruptness of the construction go hand in hand. The time was not only ripe but also rapidly declining, and I knew that if I didn't act then then I would not have been able to capitalize on my plan at all. In order to accomplish the work rapidly enough to seem both feasible and believable, I needed a large enough group to do it, and I randomly decided on about fifty when I wrote that post a week ago. If I had started work earlier, I would have gladly used more traditional methods with legitimate characters, but as it is this was the only way to do it, and I do apologize if it seems cheap, but if one looks at the references between the lines, one would find that Ambages was able to find workers through both his influence and his ability to recruit work from Xa-Koro so a team of fifty worker volunteers, trained in the basics of construction and a trek through the jungle with their supplies, is not only justified but also realistic to certain standards.I do feel that saying they have been working for at least a few days is not unreasonable; after all, one of the things I did when I left was state that they will be labouring through my absence.I can't speak for anyone else, like Nuju, but I do have the blessing of Nuju Metru on this side plot and also have his attention in how I do this; he has his reasons for allowing me to do these acts, and they will become more apparent later on. If there are any more concerns, I will gladly deal with them in private, preferably in a personal message. I'll be here all week. :PEdited for insertion of words for clarity's sake.

Edited August 22, 2012 by EmperorWhenua

[Krayzikk]

There we go. Both sides have had a public say, and unless others are joining in on the conversation, I think any further discussion can be dealt with in PM, as EW said.Alright folks, continue with your day.

[otter]

Hey, the reasons I wanted a week ago are here now!I feel satisfied and happy again.Anyways, now I just want to know even more about these elemental wards. Detail, detail, detail. More detail. Eli wants detail.

[EmperorWhenua]

I said what I had imagined them to be and what people need to know about them. What sorts of details did you have in mind, Kal?

[otter]

I said what I had imagined them to be and what people need to know about them. What sorts of details did you have in mind, Kal?

Everything about them. Materials, manufacturing, time consumption, blueprints...everything.

[EmperorWhenua]

Unfortunately, though I guess I could go into that sort of detail, it really wouldn't make a difference in the game unless it was used as a commercial product that people could use regularly. That may happen later on, but right now I don't have the time to think too hard on something that small that would have literally no impact to what I am doing right now. Sorry.

[otter]

...Come up with stuff and then send me the details in a PM, because that's where this discussion needs taken anyways.

[The Lorax]

Hmm. When you put it like that, it does seem less out of place in a game like this, but there's still one thing that's bothering me: the elemental nullifiers. From your description above, they exude some sort of field that stops enemies from being able to use their elemental powers. We've seen something like this before, in canon, so excuse me if a draw a few paralells.In The Yesterday Quest, Kabura and his pack of intelligent Vorox had something very similar to the device EW is desccribing. Their thing stopped toa from using their elemental energies within a certain range. True, we never found out much about them due to the serials never concluding, but the details we do have line up very cleanly with these things in the wall.Now, what was Orde's reaction to learning of such a device? I'll quote it for those who can't remember.

“Shut it off?” said Orde, incredulous. “You can’t shut off a Toa’s power. That’s like shutting off the ability to breathe!”

. Let's remember here that Orde is not a new toa. In fact, he was stated to be one of the oldest toa in the universe. He's been around the universe, and seen an awful lot in over a hundred thousand years of existence. He will be well aware of the amazing, magical technologies coming out of Xia and Nynrah, and yet his response to messing with toa powers: it can't be done. In the story, the fact that such a device existed was taken as the final, clinching proof that a Great Being was involved. Elemental nullification was placed firmly outside of what was possible within the Matoran Universe.So now, unless Ambages is our mysterious Great Being who has been hiding in the Matoran Universe, how are these devices possible? Even with knowledge gained from foreign species, materials still need to come from the island of Mata Nui, and the equipment they have to build these devices won't be up to the standard of what was being used on Xia. How then, is he making technology which is more advanced than what they had?That's just my two cents. I see that the conversation has moved on while I've been writing this, so this could make up some of what is discussed in PMs.

[otter]

*sighs*There's one important thing: This isn't the straight-up Bionicle story, and so differences are likely to happen. As well, this wall all approved by our resident Great Being, by the name of Nuju Metru.So now, I say, let EW come up with details for me and move on to a new topic.

[BenLuke]

^ BZPRPG Canon =! Bionicle Canon.Also oh wow I was expecting a massive flamewar.

[shadow pridak money gang]

*sighs*There's one important thing: This isn't the straight-up Bionicle story, and so differences are likely to happen. As well, this wall all approved by our resident Great Being, by the name of Nuju Metru.So now, I say, let EW come up with details for me and move on to a new topic.

...He just said he didn't have time to focus on the details.-Teezy

[otter]

Pfft, as though time even exists.

[EmperorWhenua]

But it does, and I don't have too much of it, end of story. Let's move on to other, more relevant matters in this topic, Kal.

[Visaru]

Exactly how common/hard to produce are these anti-elemental devices? They seem incredibly powerful and useful. Are they available for normal players? How well known and widespread are they on mata nui? I feel intrusive, but this sort of thing is kind of important- a device that nullifies toa powers isn't some sort of minor tech piece- it really affects toa, and in a deep way. I think it's more relevant than Kal's (apparent) whim to know everything about them. *restrains self from actually commenting on the ILS defense building debate.*

[EmperorWhenua]

I think Visaru does have a more legitimate curiosity here. I'll talk to Nuju and see what creativity can be done with this. If it does become public, it will be regulated, though -- and very much so. At this point they are not available for common use, and I'd say they are quite hard to produce and imagine that they require some degree of sacrifice.Keep in mind that the brain behind this is a very wealthy man with connections to envoys of the Makuta and the Cultured Gentry, so he may have resources almost nobody else has on Mata Nui. But again, I'll look more into this, but I'm not going to create random facts from thin air.

Edited August 22, 2012 by EmperorWhenua

[BenLuke]

^^ I agree, it's an interesting concept and knowing how it could affect the game would come in handy.EDIT: Ninja'd, oh well.

Edited August 22, 2012 by BenLuke-116

[otter]

Quick question: How is one person's curiosity more legitimate than another's? You may say that their reasons for the curiosity are more legitimate, but I'm truly curious to know more.As well: Visaru: Killing my true plans since 2012.And I still need to have that Verak vs. Verak, now that I think about it.

[Constructelf]

PEOPLE IN ECHELON'S GROUP: HAVE NONE OF YOU READ THE ART OF WAR, THE 36 STRATAGEMS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? IF YOU DID, THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE TAKING AMBAGE'S OFFER RIGHT NOW.

[BenLuke]

Well, no. The Art of War doesn't exist on Mata Nui, you know.

[shadow pridak money gang]

And I presume you, in turn, have never read the instruction manual to your computer; otherwise, you might know how to turn off Caps Lock.-Teezy

[Constructelf]

I meant to do that

[Visaru]

Quick question: How is one person's curiosity more legitimate than another's? You may say that their reasons for the curiosity are more legitimate, but I'm truly curious to know more.

Because you didn't give any reasons for your interest. You just asked to know everything about them. That's why I said '(apparent) whim'. I'm sure you had good reasons too, you just didn't voice them.

As well: Visaru: Killing my true plans since 2012.And I still need to have that Verak vs. Verak, now that I think about it.

*Bows*I apologize once again for stealing your characters name, but agree that Verak vs. Verak needs to happen. Edited August 22, 2012 by Visaru

[shadow pridak money gang]

For future reference: you could just turn on bold and type "People in Echelon's Group" before saying what you need to say. It gets the point across just as well, but with none of the inherent obnoxiousness of caps.-Teezy

[otter]

Lul, I could care less about name stealing, it just make it seem more realistic, in a sense. What with people sharing names and all.But yes, that would be fun. Who else would like Verak vs. Verak?As well: What you mentioned goes with the reasons, and while I didn't state my reasons here, I did give him reasons in a P.M.But I run off of whims a lot too, so you're alright in thinking that. =P

[EmperorWhenua]

Kal, Visaru's curiosity is in tune with the game itself rather than asking for details just to develop a story. He thinks about having the technology in the game instead of wanting to know more for personal reasons, so I can honor that reason more. But note that I didn't say I'll come up with details on the fly, rather stating that I'll work with Nuju on the matter in the future. Plus, all you did was ask for more like a kid who finished his small root beer float on a hot summer day and felt unsatisfied. :PAnd Constructman, relax. This is a game, so people can take leaps of faith and play as they want to. The characters in the shrine aren't military masterminds, in any case, at least as far as I know, so they can make mistakes just like their users. Not even I have read The Art Of War in real life, and I think I'm doing quite swell as it is.

[otter]

Nuh-uh, I asked for more like a kid who just finished his root beer float and his chocolate bar.But anyways: I still want to learn more, because it'd be useful for writing anywhere. :lol:But still, just because his curiosity is in regards to the game and mine is in regards to stories, for now, does not make any one person's curiosity more "legitimate." But meh, Onarax has told me I look too far into the literal meaning of things like this. Maybe it's just my dictionary mind.

[Lara White]

PEOPLE IN ECHELON'S GROUP: HAVE NONE OF YOU READ THE ART OF WAR, THE 36 STRATAGEMS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? IF YOU DID, THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE TAKING AMBAGE'S OFFER RIGHT NOW.

Don't give them ideas. Makes the fight easier for us.

[otter]

PEOPLE IN ECHELON'S GROUP: HAVE NONE OF YOU READ THE ART OF WAR, THE 36 STRATAGEMS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? IF YOU DID, THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE TAKING AMBAGE'S OFFER RIGHT NOW.

You realize that, while very useful, those aren't the only sets of tactics that can be used, correct? We are fully capable of using our own tactics within this situation-we do not have to rely on those teachings.Also, bleh caps lock. But that's the minor part.

[Let's Henshin!]

I don't recall any of the members of the Makuta Followers being brilliant military strategists, why would they think that?

[otter]

I don't recall any of the members of the Makuta Followers being brilliant military strategists, why would they think that?

Hey, this as well. More likely they'd have knowledge of basic wisdom and tactics, but there isn't even an analogue to any such tactical manuals within the RPG. We can't just run off those.Not like we have to, anyways. As I said, we need not follow only those schools of thought.

[Padishah Mehmet II]

I have read the Art of War, and it's not going against the Art of War at all.-Dovydas

[They]

I agree with dovy. I've read the book too. Also the five rings in case we start an egoic strategy book reading list.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Kughii

[25K Now!]

I read the Art of War because it's Chinese literature and I'm Chinese. Sun Tzu's work is rather knowledgeable, but it serves as advice. You don't need to follow everything in it to plan and concoct military thingamajiggies anyway.But back on topic. Ladies and gentlemen. Today ...I shall invent the bicycle.

[Lara White]

I read the Art of War because it's proved to be useful in everything I apply it to.