OFFICIAL Bionicle 2015 Topic

[Jobber]

 

 

 

Capes!

 

Or even hats. Imagine that- Bionicle hats.

 

 

Where's Sumiki?

 

 

 

huh--

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Awwwwww yeah LEGO fixed the file so the BIONICLE magazine insert is available digitally. Booyah.

Awesome! I've never seen that Battle for the Region of Fire insert. Really nostalgic! Reminds me of similar inserts they had in 2005-08

 

-NotS

[Voltex]

 

Awwwwww yeah LEGO fixed the file so the BIONICLE magazine insert is available digitally. Booyah.

Awesome! I've never seen that Battle for the Region of Fire insert. Really nostalgic! Reminds me of similar inserts they had in 2005-08

 

-NotS

 

 

Yeah, those were always my favorite parts of the Lego Magazine.

 

The colors are messed up on the Protectors on another page, though. Specifically the Protectors of Stone and Jungle.

[Ford]

 

Awwwwww yeah LEGO fixed the file so the BIONICLE magazine insert is available digitally. Booyah.

Awesome! I've never seen that Battle for the Region of Fire insert. Really nostalgic! Reminds me of similar inserts they had in 2005-08

 

-NotS

 

My favorite is the one from one of the 2004 comics. That one always looked awesome to me. 

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

My favorite is the one from one of the 2004 comics. That one always looked awesome to me. 

 

I liked that one and the 2005 one a lot, because they used real sets. I like CG renders too, but it's just really cool to see so many photographed sets in one pic (obviously digitally manipulated but still)

 

-NotS

[ToaDraco]

 

 

Awwwwww yeah LEGO fixed the file so the BIONICLE magazine insert is available digitally. Booyah.

Awesome! I've never seen that Battle for the Region of Fire insert. Really nostalgic! Reminds me of similar inserts they had in 2005-08

 

-NotS

 

 

Yeah, those were always my favorite parts of the Lego Magazine.

 

The colors are messed up on the Protectors on another page, though. Specifically the Protectors of Stone and Jungle.

 

I actually wish the PoS looked like that, the brown and candy apple green look really nice together! Although, that color scheme should be given to a representative of the Jungle region. 

[Volitak_Boxor]

 

 

Awwwwww yeah LEGO fixed the file so the BIONICLE magazine insert is available digitally. Booyah.

Awesome! I've never seen that Battle for the Region of Fire insert. Really nostalgic! Reminds me of similar inserts they had in 2005-08

 

-NotS

 

 

Yeah, those were always my favorite parts of the Lego Magazine.

 

The colors are messed up on the Protectors on another page, though. Specifically the Protectors of Stone and Jungle.

 

Nice find!  I'm pretty sure that the Region of Fire insert is new, because it wasn't in past coverage of the booklet.  It's pretty neat.

 

On a related note, the neat Tahu - PoF combiner is apparently called "Special Tahu."  I guess it's nice to have an official name, but it could've been way more interesting than Special Tahu...

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

Awwwwww yeah LEGO fixed the file so the BIONICLE magazine insert is available digitally. Booyah.

Awesome! I've never seen that Battle for the Region of Fire insert. Really nostalgic! Reminds me of similar inserts they had in 2005-08

 

-NotS

 

 

Yeah, those were always my favorite parts of the Lego Magazine.

 

The colors are messed up on the Protectors on another page, though. Specifically the Protectors of Stone and Jungle.

 

Nice find!  I'm pretty sure that the Region of Fire insert is new, because it wasn't in past coverage of the booklet.  It's pretty neat.

 

On a related note, the neat Tahu - PoF combiner is apparently called "Special Tahu."  I guess it's nice to have an official name, but it could've been way more interesting than Special Tahu...

 

I don't think that's meant as a name, just a description (though it's odd that it's capitalized). Similarly, the LEGO Club site calls that model "The Ultimate Fire Toa"

 

The big battle scene isn't new, but I think a lot of people failed to cover it because it doesn't really have new information and the somewhat awkward posing of some of the characters kind of undermines the scene's cinematic appeal.

[Ford]

The big battle scene isn't new, but I think a lot of people failed to cover it because it doesn't really have new information and the somewhat awkward posing of some of the characters kind of undermines the scene's cinematic appeal.

 

I agree. PoJ's posing is so underwhelming compared to some of the others. Gail's pose makes no sense, either.

[Xabla]

 

The big battle scene isn't new, but I think a lot of people failed to cover it because it doesn't really have new information and the somewhat awkward posing of some of the characters kind of undermines the scene's cinematic appeal.

 

I agree. PoJ's posing is so underwhelming compared to some of the others. Gail's pose makes no sense, either.

 

What is she doing?   

[NickonAquaMagna]

 

 

The big battle scene isn't new, but I think a lot of people failed to cover it because it doesn't really have new information and the somewhat awkward posing of some of the characters kind of undermines the scene's cinematic appeal.

 

I agree. PoJ's posing is so underwhelming compared to some of the others. Gail's pose makes no sense, either.

 

What is she doing?   

 

 

Flying in mermaid mode, apparently.

[Xabla]

 

 

 

The big battle scene isn't new, but I think a lot of people failed to cover it because it doesn't really have new information and the somewhat awkward posing of some of the characters kind of undermines the scene's cinematic appeal.

 

I agree. PoJ's posing is so underwhelming compared to some of the others. Gail's pose makes no sense, either.

 

What is she doing?   

 

 

Flying in mermaid mode, apparently.

 

 

Gail's always 3 steps ahead. 

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

I don't want another Toa team in the reboot, maybe not ever. It would depend on whether or not there was a real closure to our toas' story, but if not, no influx of other random heroes please.

 

Though I mean they have already set it up for a new version of our Toa in the winter, assuming they free Ekimu and whatnot. What a perfect way for him to express gratitude by forging new armour and masks for them...

I think that having the same characters over and over again would get kind of stale eventually.

Sometimes changing up the Toa can be really good. Take the Metru for example. We were all used to the over-confident Tahu and the friendly Pohatu, however we were given a rather self-conscious Vakama and a really uncaring Onewa. The result was arguably one of the most dysfunctional Toa teams, but it was very heartwarming to finally see them learn to cooperate. These changes in personality can give the story some new dimensions.

You are assuming I am a fan of the other Toa teams we saw in G1- I am not. They fractured the storytelling, and though the Metru design was my favourite Toa set design, the sets from the Metru era are too drab and dark, precursors to the almost parodying Inika and Mahri grim dark stories we got later. This shift pushed the OG Toa to the background and really fractured the story. No thank you.

 

 

Well, even if the execution of them during that time wasn't good, can you honestly try to tell us that it's completely a bad idea because of the way it was handled? Those toa, were interesting characters to say the least. Although they weren't executed well in the past, having a new toa team in the future isn't inherently a bad idea and could owrk excellently. Any piece of story or idea can be stupid and bad if not done well. You're assuming that if something like a new toa team was taken from the old story, it would be exactly the same as it was done before, and that's a false assumption.

 

 

I don't entirely get why people seem to think the current Toa will "get stale". There are plenty of franchises that manage to stick with the same main characters year-in and year-out without that becoming an issue. LEGO Ninjago, for example, is on its fifth year with more or less the same main characters as it started out with. As of this summer, each of the five main Ninja will have been released in ten or more different forms!

 

Now, I know Ninjago isn't a constraction theme. But from a storytelling standpoint, that doesn't make any difference at all — it's not as though constraction characters are guaranteed to become boring more quickly than minifigure characters. And as far as sets are concerned, how much difference will it really make to the building experience whether future Toa sets are new characters or new versions of established characters? It's not as though a new character is guaranteed to deliver a revolutionary building experience, or an established character is guaranteed to feel like a rehash of the previous version of the character. What's more, there is no mandate that you have to buy every version of every character.

 

I think it's a bit premature to be talking about this anyway. I think most of us can agree that it would be a bad idea to retire the current team of Toa before they've even gotten two years as the main characters. And that means we will almost certainly be getting new versions of the Toa at some point in 2016. It would be poor business to keep the current Toa as main characters without having any version of those Toa available on store shelves, and it would also be poor business to keep restocking shelves with the same exact 2015 Toa sets over a year and a half after their release.

 

Ninjago isn't the greatest example. The cast has changed and been added onto. We now have Lloyd, his parents, Skylor, Dareth, Pixal, and the death (though return) of Zane. If we only had those original four ninja, things would be pretty stale right about now. And think- Ninjago had a tv show that allowed for visible and good characterization, whereas Bionicle mainly has bios and books. To an outsider who follows the story less heavily as a larger fan, they'd get bored of seeing the same character over and over again.

 

And looking at a story perspective of the sets, as great as sets can get, I wouldn't want to have fifty Tahu's running down my shelf. Eventually, a change isn't bad.

 

And most people in support of bringing in a new toa team aren't yelling for it to happen right now. Most are in agreement that having the current toa for a fair and honest amount of time can only be good. Give them the characterization they need to make them interesting, loveable and well done, but move on before you're just randomly adding onto their characters in a desperate attempt to keep them changing when they don't need to.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Banana Gunz

[Xabla]

 

 

 

I don't want another Toa team in the reboot, maybe not ever. It would depend on whether or not there was a real closure to our toas' story, but if not, no influx of other random heroes please.

 

Though I mean they have already set it up for a new version of our Toa in the winter, assuming they free Ekimu and whatnot. What a perfect way for him to express gratitude by forging new armour and masks for them...

I think that having the same characters over and over again would get kind of stale eventually.

Sometimes changing up the Toa can be really good. Take the Metru for example. We were all used to the over-confident Tahu and the friendly Pohatu, however we were given a rather self-conscious Vakama and a really uncaring Onewa. The result was arguably one of the most dysfunctional Toa teams, but it was very heartwarming to finally see them learn to cooperate. These changes in personality can give the story some new dimensions.

You are assuming I am a fan of the other Toa teams we saw in G1- I am not. They fractured the storytelling, and though the Metru design was my favourite Toa set design, the sets from the Metru era are too drab and dark, precursors to the almost parodying Inika and Mahri grim dark stories we got later. This shift pushed the OG Toa to the background and really fractured the story. No thank you.

 

 

Well, even if the execution of them during that time wasn't good, can you honestly try to tell us that it's completely a bad idea because of the way it was handled? Those toa, were interesting characters to say the least. Although they weren't executed well in the past, having a new toa team in the future isn't inherently a bad idea and could owrk excellently. Any piece of story or idea can be stupid and bad if not done well. You're assuming that if something like a new toa team was taken from the old story, it would be exactly the same as it was done before, and that's a false assumption.

 

 

I don't entirely get why people seem to think the current Toa will "get stale". There are plenty of franchises that manage to stick with the same main characters year-in and year-out without that becoming an issue. LEGO Ninjago, for example, is on its fifth year with more or less the same main characters as it started out with. As of this summer, each of the five main Ninja will have been released in ten or more different forms!

 

Now, I know Ninjago isn't a constraction theme. But from a storytelling standpoint, that doesn't make any difference at all — it's not as though constraction characters are guaranteed to become boring more quickly than minifigure characters. And as far as sets are concerned, how much difference will it really make to the building experience whether future Toa sets are new characters or new versions of established characters? It's not as though a new character is guaranteed to deliver a revolutionary building experience, or an established character is guaranteed to feel like a rehash of the previous version of the character. What's more, there is no mandate that you have to buy every version of every character.

 

I think it's a bit premature to be talking about this anyway. I think most of us can agree that it would be a bad idea to retire the current team of Toa before they've even gotten two years as the main characters. And that means we will almost certainly be getting new versions of the Toa at some point in 2016. It would be poor business to keep the current Toa as main characters without having any version of those Toa available on store shelves, and it would also be poor business to keep restocking shelves with the same exact 2015 Toa sets over a year and a half after their release.

 

Ninjago isn't the greatest example. The cast has changed and been added onto. We now have Lloyd, his parents, Skylor, and the death (though return) of Zane. If we only had those original four ninja, things would be pretty stale right about now. And think- Ninjago had a tv show that allowed for visible and good characterization, whereas Bionicle mainly has bios and books. To an outsider who follows the story less heavily as a larger fan, they'd get bored of seeing the same character over and over again.

 

And looking at a story perspective of the sets, as great as sets can get, I wouldn't want to have fifty Tahu's running down my shelf. Eventually, a change isn't bad.

 

And most people in support of bringing in a new toa team aren't yelling for it to happen right now. Most are in agreement that having the current toa for a fair and honest amount of time can only be good. Give them the characterization they need to make them interesting, loveable and well done, but move on before you're just randomly adding onto their characters in a desperate attempt to keep them changing when they don't need to.

 

Isn't Skylor evil? Sorry, I have not watched the episodes yet.

[Lyichir]

Ninjago isn't the greatest example. The cast has changed and been added onto. We now have Lloyd, his parents, Skylor, Dareth, Pixal, and the death (though return) of Zane. If we only had those original four ninja, things would be pretty stale right about now. And think- Ninjago had a tv show that allowed for visible and good characterization, whereas Bionicle mainly has bios and books. To an outsider who follows the story less heavily as a larger fan, they'd get bored of seeing the same character over and over again.

 

And looking at a story perspective of the sets, as great as sets can get, I wouldn't want to have fifty Tahu's running down my shelf. Eventually, a change isn't bad.

 

And most people in support of bringing in a new toa team aren't yelling for it to happen right now. Most are in agreement that having the current toa for a fair and honest amount of time can only be good. Give them the characterization they need to make them interesting, loveable and well done, but move on before you're just randomly adding onto their characters in a desperate attempt to keep them changing when they don't need to.

Ninjago is actually a fantastic example, because while the main cast has been added to, the core of the cast has remained the same. The original four ninja (Kai, Zane, Cole, and Jay) have appeared consistently in every single story arc. Lloyd joined that core cast in 2012 and has never left. Secondary characters (Wu, Nya and Garmadon) have appeared with slightly less frequency but they're still a presence in every year. Characters like Pixal, Dareth and Misako are indeed temporary additions to the cast, but they never once displaced the main characters.

 

Hero Factory, too, mostly kept a core cast for its entire run. Furno, Stormer, Bulk, Breez, and Surge appeared in every single year of sets. Evo and Rocka appeared in every single year after their introduction. Nex and Stringer were the only exceptions, probably because nine main characters was an unsustainable number in the long run. Still, it never once replaced the entire team of heroes, or put them on the sidelines in favor of a new group of rookies.

 

The vehicle for telling the story is irrelevant, as far as character progression is concerned. A fan who only buys the sets isn't going to get "bored" of the same group of characters if those characters keep appearing in interesting new forms (any more than they'd get "bored" of the same six elements every time), and keeping the same characters around actually helps KEEP fans interested by not replacing the characters they've come to know and love.

 

It's true that there could come a time when replacing the new Bionicle's core cast becomes necessary. But that will ONLY happen if the theme is mishandled. Good characters don't become boring, and neither do good set designs. If Bionicle can continue to make the character progression of its core cast compelling (both visually and story-wise), then the current Toa team could very well remain the main characters for the entirety of the theme's lifespan.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Lyichir

[Banana Gunz]

 

Ninjago isn't the greatest example. The cast has changed and been added onto. We now have Lloyd, his parents, Skylor, Dareth, Pixal, and the death (though return) of Zane. If we only had those original four ninja, things would be pretty stale right about now. And think- Ninjago had a tv show that allowed for visible and good characterization, whereas Bionicle mainly has bios and books. To an outsider who follows the story less heavily as a larger fan, they'd get bored of seeing the same character over and over again.

 

And looking at a story perspective of the sets, as great as sets can get, I wouldn't want to have fifty Tahu's running down my shelf. Eventually, a change isn't bad.

 

And most people in support of bringing in a new toa team aren't yelling for it to happen right now. Most are in agreement that having the current toa for a fair and honest amount of time can only be good. Give them the characterization they need to make them interesting, loveable and well done, but move on before you're just randomly adding onto their characters in a desperate attempt to keep them changing when they don't need to.

Ninjago is actually a fantastic example, because while the main cast has been added to, the core of the cast has remained the same. The original four ninja (Kai, Zane, Cole, and Jay) have appeared consistently in every single story arc. Lloyd joined that core cast in 2012 and has never left. Secondary characters (Wu, Nya and Garmadon) have appeared with slightly less frequency but they're still a presence in every year. Characters like Pixal, Dareth and Misako are indeed temporary additions to the cast, but they never once displaced the main characters.

 

Hero Factory, too, mostly kept a core cast for its entire run. Furno, Stormer, Bulk, Breez, and Surge appeared in every single year of sets. Evo and Rocka appeared in every single year after their introduction. Nex and Stringer were the only exceptions, probably because nine main characters was an unsustainable number in the long run. Still, it never once replaced the entire team of heroes, or put them on the sidelines in favor of a new group of rookies.

 

The vehicle for telling the story is irrelevant, as far as character progression is concerned. A fan who only buys the sets isn't going to get "bored" of the same group of characters if those characters keep appearing in interesting new forms (any more than they'd get "bored" of the same six elements every time), and keeping the same characters around actually helps KEEP fans interested by not replacing the characters they've come to know and love.

 

It's true that there could come a time when replacing the new Bionicle's core cast becomes necessary. But that will ONLY happen if the theme is mishandled. Good characters don't become boring, and neither do good set designs. If Bionicle can continue to make the character progression of its core cast compelling (both visually and story-wise), then the current Toa team could very well remain the main characters for the entirety of the theme's lifespan.

 

 

Ninjago really isn't a good example though. It shows, that as great as the original cast was, it still had to be altered, whether additions or not, in order to stay interesting. Just because those characters have stayed, it doesn't make them any less of an example of how they needed to add new elements to refresh the cast and keep things going.

 

And I don't think HF is a very good example of a success of having one cast character wise. HF's cast was altered from its original form as well, and true, while it did not change after a period of time, it got boring to people like me, because having so many characters often left some unexplored and a feeling that they were just individuals with less of a group or unity tying every single one of them together. HF is largely known to me as a still point in time. There was rarely any actually growth or evolution that played out in the long run. Whatever ending there could have been connecting Von Nebula to Black Phantom and a large epic finale was cut out and never truly had its full potential reached. Though there were changes and "growths" in characters like Evo during Breakout, they were very much not well put in, Evo's seeming to contradict the original portrayal of his character and in general, just feeling thrown in without any actually root for it. HF in my mind, is too big of a mess to make a good example story-wise.

 

And you can only keep on altering characters so many times before they simply become gimmicky, or rather, tacky. How many upgrades can you get before your story becomes a copy-paste situation for each year like HF? "OH NO! There's a new super ultra crazy unstoppable threat facing Makukaku super-city-verse! IT'S TIME TO CALL THE SHMERO'S! But things are even too intense for even our courageous shmero's this time around, so guess what time it is? TIME FOR SHMUPGRADES! Yeah! This time, our smhero's need to face this threat UNDERWATER, so they've been upgraded with super ultra twisty cool turbine lasers and spinny swim jets! And thanks to these amazing power ups and their bravery the EEEVILE DR. VILL EEN has been defeated, and peace has been restored to our great shmuniverse once again!"

 

Tell me, how many more "golden armors" or "golden masks" can we get? How many more upgrades will it take to reach a point where the six toa are being stretched out, having new scenarios tacked onto them that truly aren't as important as they are made out to be and don't really add anything to them as characters? Without altering the original cast, at some point, things will stop working. Would Ninjago have been as interesting if they hadn't added Lloyd or Skylor? Unlikely! I like to imagine that Bionicle should work in generations, where hero's of old have been given time and care to be loved, but have to be let go, or else we end up with 600 year old Ash Ketchums! There has to be a moment, where they have done their duty, where they will only be stretched out at that point forward, that they can pass the mantle down to new hero's that we can learn and explore and love as much as we did those old ones. Replacing or adding characters to the current cast of toa would only give a slightly absurdly large group that could end up working poorly, but moving on and starting fresh, after you have given the originals justice and done all you can with them without getting out of hand.

 

Eventually, some kid who loved the theme with endless upgrades and an unchanging cast, is going to grow older, and they're going to pull out the drawer that holds the endless renditions and variations of "the red", or blue or whatever character, and they're going to wonder why they spent so much money on that one. They're going to wonder if it was really worth ten of that figure in order to appreciate and love them. Change them up as much as you like, but it's still the same.

 

I realize I must sound ranty writing this, and that we're probably not on a completely different page, and I apologize if some of this seemed angry or obnoxious (believe me, that's not my intent). I completely agree that the toa we have now should have the time necessary for us to care about them as characters, and leaving them undeveloped enough and just throwing them out the window in favor of new characters is just not a good idea and will leave many unsatisfied, but I guess I'm thinking more of those that are completely opposed to moving on after a while. If the toa we have now take 3, 4, 5 years to develop, fine, excellent, but don't let them get gimmicky and mistake that for development. If the line is to extend farther into the future, I strongly feel there is a point where a change is good. Sticking with a single cast is very much an effective and good way of telling a story, but to me, Bionicle was never just one story. I loved every set of characters and how they had to work together. The metru told the story of the fall of Mata-Nui, the Ignika told the story of his rebirth, the ignition of his heart, and the Mata told the story of his great awakening. All those separate adventures they had, meant something to me. They were cool in themselves, but were parts of a larger story that over arched the entire theme. Bionicle was a legend told in parts to me, and having different hero's for those parts only made it all the more interesting. Bionicle should not be limited to one set of characters or one story, for it is not one novel. It is a legend, that worked to tell the story of something bigger. And that bigger thing changed me as an individual when I realized what it was. Every moment was worked up to lead up to the greatest moment of all, and I loved it.

 

Perhaps I'm working this out to be more than it really is, but in my mind, though the way multiple casts were used in G1 ended up working out some strange scenarios, it was never really a flawed idea. It was just another way of telling the story, and a pretty effective and great one in my mind.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Banana Gunz

[believe victims]

Why does everyone assume each transformation necessarily has to be an "upgrade"? As terrible as the 2008 Nuva were in every respect, they got one thing right: the forms weren't necessarily upgrades, they were adaptations for a specific threat/environment. Adaptations like that could conceivably (and realistically) affect the Toa every story arc.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Wally

[dotcom]

Not to demean the point, but that just sounds like pointless semantics.

[believe victims]

Not really? An "upgrade" carries the implication of getting stronger or better in some way, in which case it absolutely makes sense to think that continuous upgrades would get tiresome, because there is an upper limit to getting stronger.

 

An adaptation, meanwhile, doesn't mean getting stronger; it just means you change your tools and such to become more suited to the current task at hand. That doesn't make sense for it to happen "too many times", because people who find themselves in a large variety of different situations will absolutely prepare themselves for each situation.

 

Compare how Hero Factory treated Ordeal of Fire and Savage Planet (when they used the stupid number things to denote upgrades) to how they treated it the following years. In Hero Factory, it stopped being about upgrading yourself to be stronger and started being about preparing yourself for specific threats.

 

It's like saying when you put on a parachute or scuba gear, you're "upgrading" yourself. That doesn't make sense to me.

[Banana Gunz]

Not really? An "upgrade" carries the implication of getting stronger or better in some way, in which case it absolutely makes sense to think that continuous upgrades would get tiresome, because there is an upper limit to getting stronger.

 

An adaptation, meanwhile, doesn't mean getting stronger; it just means you change your tools and such to become more suited to the current task at hand. That doesn't make sense for it to happen "too many times", because people who find themselves in a large variety of different situations will absolutely prepare themselves for each situation.

 

Compare how Hero Factory treated Ordeal of Fire and Savage Planet (when they used the stupid number things to denote upgrades) to how they treated it the following years. In Hero Factory, it stopped being about upgrading yourself to be stronger and started being about preparing yourself for specific threats.

 

It's like saying when you put on a parachute or scuba gear, you're "upgrading" yourself. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

Upgrade, variation, call it what you will. Eventually they have the same effect, where they attempt to change up the characters, put a spin on them. These upgrades and variations don't change the characters or make them more interesting. They just put them in different situations that require different gear. You can endlessly upgrade your toa as much as you can endlessly give them different gear for different environments. In the end, neither actually change things as much as they seem and only give the impression that the characters are growing, when they really aren't. That's why they're gimmicky, because they both have the same effect of being pointless. I'm fine with, for example, the Ignika's trip to Mahri-Nui, bringing an underwater theme into play. It was an interesting theme that brought a new style, but wasn't the center of the years story, the rebirth of Mata-Nui (and of course, the other important struggles and sacrifices made) being what one should've really brought home.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Banana Gunz

[dotcom]

I mean in the context of responding to Banana Gunz's post (which I assume you were) as he did not specifically differentiate between upgrades or adaptations or whatever. He was referring to form changes in a general sense (though putting them under the umbrella of upgrades). Making this distinction doesn't really respond to those concerns if he was referring to both things. And I think saying that just because we call them different things it's impossible for it to get stale is also kind of missing the point he was trying to make.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Can we look at the price standpoint regarding Ninjago vs Bionicle? I mean I have seen arguments for and against the idea of making a good comparison story wise for why one should or should keep original cast or change it up we may be forgetting one major thing... Yes the Ninja got upgrades and due to becoming more powerful and getting "better armor" it would be safe to call them upgrades. We are stalking about small figures that don't really cost a lot to possibly make or purchase with a set as from a business stand point the sets these ninja came with was why one would be buying the sets in question... At the end they could have multiple copies of a single character and so what nobody seems to care as much because they are small. Now with Bionicle the characters are the sets themselves. So recreating the Toa time and time again becomes redundant in that it is always just the character. Maybe with new armor, and extra powerful weapon, or in some cases an entirely new form. Parts wise for the MOCers out there this may not be such a big deal; Sweet extra parts for that MOC I can build down the line. However it can be seen as redundant to have 12 different Tahu's on the shelf when there was room for somebody else for people who see the sets as just the character as the character...

[believe victims]

Banana Gunz's point, then, is that releasing the same characters again and again will get stale, which I find odd considering what a solid business practice both other LEGO lines and other action figure lines (particularly Transformers) have made of it. I simply can't agree on it being gimmicky, because  to me it just makes sense to suit up for a new threat, and unless the story team gets really bad at writing the characters, they shouldn't get stale in a story sense either.

 

The idea of characters getting stale in general is, in fact, bizarre to me, as I've made clear several times by pointing out stories that keep the same protagonists their entire run without ever being accused of getting stale. I'd rather stick with the characters we have than try to pull a Poochie.

[Banana Gunz]

Banana Gunz's point, then, is that releasing the same characters again and again will get stale, which I find odd considering what a solid business practice both other LEGO lines and other action figure lines (particularly Transformers) have made of it. I simply can't agree on it being gimmicky, because  to me it just makes sense to suit up for a new threat, and unless the story team gets really bad at writing the characters, they shouldn't get stale in a story sense either.

 

The idea of characters getting stale in general is, in fact, bizarre to me, as I've made clear several times by pointing out stories that keep the same protagonists their entire run without ever being accused of getting stale. I'd rather stick with the characters we have than try to pull a Poochie.

 

But when you look at these other franchises, is there not the case of people asking for something new? I'm not really into Transformers at all, but do you really want seventy Optimus Primes and Bumble Bees lining your shelf? If it's considered a solid business practice, fine, I admit, maybe it sells. But what your sales tell you about your product and what your customers do are very different. Like I said, looking back, many reconsider why they needed so much of one character, and what they brought to the characters other than different parts. People will often buy regardless of what you're selling, but for all the profit a product may earn a business, does it mean it's always good? No. There are a lot of things that sell, like advertizing, that are cheap and unreal. People will respond to it, but when you bring it up, they realize that they were sold more than just a product. They were sold a commodity.

 

And I already addressed much of this. Look at film for a minute. In this modern day and age, we are constantly bombarded by reboots, and especially sequels, which start being planned before the film coming before it is even released. There are definitely good sequels that work, expand the world and characters and work well, but do not even dare to tell me that you have not seen one of those dreadful sequels that tries to do nothing except leech off of the success of its predecessors. The Aliens trilogy, one of the most beloved ideas and films ever made. Now look at the recent game, Alien: Isolation. This game, for all the fancy graphics and effort put into it, is not good. It's like eighteen hours long so I didn't play it, but I watched play-through's of it and learned the story. It is a perfect example of something trying to be something it shouldn't be. Alien and Aliens were such great films, that when creating such a story based game, they did not think about what they were really putting out there. They stuck to it safe, and most of the story in the game, which is treated critically considered what a huge chunk of the game it is, is a bunch of poor reflections of what came before. A truly good sequel tries to expand and grow and build upon its world and past, to create something still in line of where it came from, but pushing the franchise forward.

 

How does any of that connect to Bionicle? Eventually, giving upgrades and variations to characters are just going to be bad sequels- sequels that don't build upon them, make them interesting or make the story better. As I've mentioned before, Bionicle was a bunch of separate stories connecting together to create a larger overarching story. You can keep writing characters well and try to expand their characters as much as you can, but what you have is an endless book with no ending, one that for a series as critically based around generations, does not work. Stop making bad sequels of characters that have no values, and rather start expanding your world, open up a new chapter with new hero's that you can grow your franchise with. As great as a single set of characters can be, they are mortal and eventually become something too far removed from a character if you just keep stacking meaningless adventures upon them. They just become ideas, ideas that keep on rebooted and remixed because they sell for the while, but don't have any real value. Their adventures blur together like Hero Factories did, and just become meaningless additions that don't matter to anyone. There is a difference between writing a character well, and squeezing them dry of all the value they have until it's all gone and just making profit off of the corpse of it because people still are attached to it and will remember the good times when it was actually filled with life. In my mind, without refreshing characters, this is what you're left with. Every character has so much opportunity to do and be a lot of things, but once you fulfill their destiny and purpose and close the book, start a new one, where you don't rely on solely the past for every future.

 

It's in Bionicle's nature to work in generations with different characters. As a toy line with a story/a story with a toy line (it's kinda a mix of both), it makes sense for it to work this way, and as true as it is that many to even most other stories work with a single set of protagonists, they don't work like Bionicle does. When you look at something like The Hunger Games which had one set of protagonists and Bionicle which had many, you realize they didn't work the same way. Their very method of story telling was different, and would not have worked if switched. It's like expecting two completely different people to fulfill the same task exactly the same way just because they're humans: it doesn't work out because these two people have lived completely different lives, with different experiences, aspirations and ways of working.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Banana Gunz

[Blueblur21]

Ooh... How does Gali play? She was one of my first and only Toa-Mata and miss the days of having her explore the furniture in my living room or under my bed as if they were underwater structures and caves.

She's perfect! pick her up this year if you can!

[Voltex]

 

Ooh... How does Gali play? She was one of my first and only Toa-Mata and miss the days of having her explore the furniture in my living room or under my bed as if they were underwater structures and caves.

She's perfect! pick her up this year if you can!

 

 

I agree. Gali is my favorite of the 2015 Toa. 

[Jobber]

 

 

Ooh... How does Gali play? She was one of my first and only Toa-Mata and miss the days of having her explore the furniture in my living room or under my bed as if they were underwater structures and caves.

She's perfect! pick her up this year if you can!

 

 

I agree. Gali is my favorite of the 2015 Toa. 

 

I also agree. Pohatu comes in as a close second, though.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well I know what my second Toa is going to be... Gali here I come...

[Dapper I Guess]

Well, it's been a long time since I heard from this franchise. I'm glad it's back. Kopaka and Pohatu both look awesome. I'm assuming the Skull Spiders are like a modern version of Krana, is that right?

[Bfahome]

The argument against a recurring cast seems really circular to me.  "BIONICLE can't keep the same characters because BIONICLE doesn't keep the same characters".

 

I still doubt we'll get any major roster change before the planned three years are up.  And after that, if it continues, I don't see why they'd have to change either.  If the planned story is about the three big Masks of Power, then that's one arc.  Characters don't have to be thrown away after one arc.  In fact, that's pretty bad form.

 

I'm open to a new cast stepping up, but only once and with the originals acting as support (I gave a description of my preferences a ew pages back).

[Nescent]

I'm assuming the Skull Spiders are like a modern version of Krana, is that right?

 

Sort of, yes. They can latch on to the faces of the Toa/Protectors and gain mind control.

[Dapper I Guess]

I see. I looked around on the website and I could only find one major villain set. Is there more to come?

 

(Please forgive me if I have an annoying number of questions to ask. I'm not at all familiar with the current series.)

Edited February 12, 2015 by Arsené

[Iblis]

I see. I looked around on the website and I could only find one major villain set. Are there more to come?

 

Five more coming in Wave 2: Skull Warrior, Skull Slicer, Skull Basher, Skull Scorpio, & Mask Maker vs. Skull Grinder 

[Dapper I Guess]

Okay, good.

 

Honestly, I find the sets' names to be disappointingly boring.

[dotcom]

I don't think anyone is saying the Toa should be replaced before their 3 years are up. I think the concerns are thinking about the long-term life of the line. (which we really don't even know will happen) and I don't think they're entirely unreasonable--once you have an iconic character design, there really is only so much you can do with it before tiring at least some people out.

 

(In my personal experience with other Lego lines, for instance, I certainly never cared much for the updates Chima characters got in minifigures, and I got bored with HF's stuff after 2012. Not necessarily because I thought the newer stuff was inferior, per se, but because somewhere along the line they had already created something I was satisfied with and that I didn't really think they improved on or needed to improve on. Sets like Brain Attack Rocka, Bulk, and Evo, for instance, were just utterly unexciting, and brought nothing new to the table.)

 

I'm honestly more concerned with that from a set perspective most of all. As far as the story is concerned, there's no problem with keeping the same cast for however long they need to. But since it's a toy line, that's my personal concern--that the sets will peak sometime along the way (perhaps they already did!)--and that as a result I'll stop being interested in the set aspect of the line. The story may become stronger for it, but if the sets stop being interesting, it'll still be a detractor. But again, that's only my personal opinion, and again, I don't mean to say they should retire the Toa immediately--they should run at least the three years. But if after the Toa have finished their story, and, having gotten a proper conclusion to their arcs, Lego decides to get a new cast, I'd be more than fine with that. There's always the possibility that Lego is using these familiar characters to establish the line, and after their stories are told they'll do some fresh new things with fresh new faces.

 

It's not a question that has a right or wrong answer. People will simply have their own preferences.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

The set names may change upon actual release but I am not so sure...

 

As for the other running topic in here. Seeing as how the Toa are the only individuals I don't really see them coming out with any extra teams unless something happens to create a brand new character. I mean we have the Summer villain sets but are they named characters or generic terms? I mean even the Mask maker whom we know is =/=<100% Ekimu still doesn't have a name. Now in Gen1 we had generic terms (Tohunga/Matoran/Turaga) followed by more specific names for said terms. Add in the games that introduced additional characters other than the main Toa team and their Turaga/Matoran Protector counterparts. Now you have an assortment of characters to expand on for story and set building. The named Turaga from the first wave became the Toa of the second... eventually down the line several of the major Matoran characters became Toa of their own.

 

So there is options for new characters to evolve from and continue the story were there. Gen2 while having 6 additional characters that could become new heros should the Toa fall, we'd have to have someone take up their mantel. Now I guess we don't need names for them, but it would help in not having to name them, Toa of  (Element)  who was the Protector of  (Element) . Now I suppose should he become revived shortly and not carried on like how Mata-Nui's revival was, Ekimu and maybe even Makuta could be as prior named characters become Toa-ish hero characters...

[Jobber]

Might as well add my two-cents into the current topic, eh?

I could totally see the same Toa team being continued over the next three years, without any new members. As I've said plenty of times before, I'm hoping Lego gives them upgrades that make them look 'fresh' but at the same time making them recognizable. With that said, it's likely we'll get a good guy that's probably not a Toa but a significant character nonetheless to the story-line (like Ekimu is, in the summer wave). I'm gonna bet my stash of junk food that it's gonna be a Titan/large Toa sized character.

What I'm really wondering is if we're gonna get another series of mini good guys for winter 2016? Tbh, I'm sorta 'meh' on having to buy another set of 'em. So here's to them being more unique that the Protectors are.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

What about an exo-Toa armor? That could be a good upgrade of sorts. Maybe one for the Toa and the Protectors. A Little extra firepower for when the power behind the skull reveals himself...

[Dapper I Guess]

Adaptive armor would be a good excuse to have new designs each year. I'm not sure if that would work in this setting, though...

[Jobber]

What about an exo-Toa armor? That could be a good upgrade of sorts. Maybe one for the Toa and the Protectors. A Little extra firepower for when the power behind the skull reveals himself...

I can see the armor being built primarily out of Technic--it'll function similar to Jet Rocka.