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So what was the biggest mistake made in the bionicle story. This can be overall, specific year or years, or just an overarching storyline problem.I personally think the C.A. Hapka canonization with the change in writers was a mistake. The loose ends left to tie up was a mess, and there were constant misgivings between people who had read the books and people who had played the games or Greg Farshety book material.


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All ways looking at the negatives. :PBut if I look at it in terms of worst of the best, I guess the ending with the Big Robot fight was a bit of an unconvincing ending, and the greatest villain in the awesomest storyline ever being beaten by a piece of a moon...That was almost an insult to Terry's memory.

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Quite a lot of items in the storyline seemed thrown in just to pacify rabid fans who want to contribute a ton of junk to the already bloated storyline, or because Greg himself deigned it necessary with little other justification (case in point: Psionics). For example, Bohrok had existed in countless numbers before we were given the little gem that they apparently are some demented evolution of Av-Matoran, somehow. This point served no purpose whatsoever, but had to be there. There were also other blatant issues that arose from the hastily executed ending, such as the size discrepancies of the Giant Robots summarized in this topic. Between all of this, it's hard to choose an absolute worst part.~B~

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But if I look at it in terms of worst of the best, I guess the ending with the Big Robot fight was a bit of an unconvincing ending, and the greatest villain in the awesomest storyline ever being beaten by a piece of a moon...That was almost an insult to Terry's memory.

Pretty much all of this. I still mock the way he died here and there in my posts on BZP. XP Though, I'm not sure what you mean by the switch in authors (then again, I don't really remember the book switch. I've re-read Hapka's books recently, but I haven't gone far past that).Though, also the alternate universe stories got kinda... uh... weird, I guess. "Tuyet is dead, but here she's alive. And now she's dead. But here she's alive again!" @_@ From that point on the story didn't appeal to me as much (pretty much after 2007 I stopped following things).

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To me the biggest mistake was the overuse of alternate dimensions. It seemed like whenever they wanted to do something the storyline wouldn't allow, they just made an alternate dimension to allow for it.


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The awkward name changes right after the beginning, and the clumsy attempt to justify it in-universe. I still don't get how the new names are less offensive if they're pronounced the same, anyway.Also, I thought the entire final battle against Makuta was awesome, but unfortunately they weren't able to properly convey the enormous scale of the robots. But it wasn't that big a deal for me.

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All ways looking at the negatives. :PBut if I look at it in terms of worst of the best, I guess the ending with the Big Robot fight was a bit of an unconvincing ending, and the greatest villain in the awesomest storyline ever being beaten by a piece of a moon...That was almost an insult to Terry's memory.

Welcome to BZPower I guess :PI guess I could say that the fact that the storyline went into a hiatus/doldrum in 2011-12 was quite bothersome. Things were rushed in 2010, and they could have been a bit better (still like the epic fight between the Stars characters, though). Also, I wish the Barakki would have had more room to grow.That, and Zaktan died. :(

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Though, I'm not sure what you mean by the switch in authors (then again, I don't really remember the book switch. I've re-read Hapka's books recently, but I haven't gone far past that).

I think I can answer this. In 2001, you had the comics, and you had the Mata Nui Online Game. The comics fit around different parts of MNOG, and MNOG showed the final battles. The Comics are Greg's work, and MNOG was driven by the story team as well, so the two fit together well. Same with the Bohrok and Kal online episodes. They fit well with their respective comics. So from 2001 to early 2003, the Bionicle storyline was relatively easy to place together. Then mid 2003 Lego made a deal with Scholastic, and C. A. Hapka wrote the Chronicles books. Unlike the unity between MNOG and the comics, these books did not fit well. In fact, they contradicted lots of what was already there.For example, Chronicles #1 says that the Toa received their Gold Kanohi after placing all their masks onto mannequins of themselves at Kini-Nui. If you had played MNOG, you would have been like, "Whaa??" because in MNOG, the Gold Kanohi were received from the Suva in the villages. In MNOG, the Toa form the Toa Kaita before finding the Manas. Then they wipe out the whole horde by knocking down the power towers. But in Chronicles #1, the six Toa find just two Manas, and after failing to inflict damage upon them, they remember the visions of the Toa Kaita, and merge. Then they defeat the two Manas with elemental powers. I hadn't played MNOG in a while when I first read Chronicles #1, and I thought in my head, "this isn't how I remember it..." You see the constant fighting between sources? Then it has the Shadow Toa battle, which had never been portrayed before. That was great! But then Greg says, "that's not really how it went." I'll side with Greg on this one, because the original Shadow Toa battle was going to be portrayed in the canceled video game.The 2002 flash episodes and comics fit well, like before. Chronicles #2 seemed to be making obvious attempts to fit with those sources, but there was one instance where something went wrong again. Chapter 5 says that the heads on the Path of Prophecies were already toppled when Pohatu first returned to Po-Koro, but the online episode shows that they were not.Again, the 2003 Kal flash episodes flowed with the comics. Unfortunately, Chronicles #3 has some obvious inconsistencies, such as how Lewa lost his powers.So you have three separate writers, fighting for control over the story. Greg (the story team), Templar Studios, and Hapka. Greg and Templar always agree, but then Hapka shows up years later and confuses us all. Eventually, when the Bionicle story team were the only writers, everything came together better. In my order of events, I only include the parts of the Chronicles that didn't contradict the known plot.

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Though, I'm not sure what you mean by the switch in authors (then again, I don't really remember the book switch. I've re-read Hapka's books recently, but I haven't gone far past that).

I think I can answer this. In 2001, you had the comics, and you had the Mata Nui Online Game. The comics fit around different parts of MNOG, and MNOG showed the final battles. The Comics are Greg's work, and MNOG was driven by the story team as well, so the two fit together well. Same with the Bohrok and Kal online episodes. They fit well with their respective comics. So from 2001 to early 2003, the Bionicle storyline was relatively easy to place together. Then mid 2003 Lego made a deal with Scholastic, and C. A. Hapka wrote the Chronicles books. Unlike the unity between MNOG and the comics, these books did not fit well. In fact, they contradicted lots of what was already there.For example, Chronicles #1 says that the Toa received their Gold Kanohi after placing all their masks onto mannequins of themselves at Kini-Nui. If you had played MNOG, you would have been like, "Whaa??" because in MNOG, the Gold Kanohi were received from the Suva in the villages. In MNOG, the Toa form the Toa Kaita before finding the Manas. Then they wipe out the whole horde by knocking down the power towers. But in Chronicles #1, the six Toa find just two Manas, and after failing to inflict damage upon them, they remember the visions of the Toa Kaita, and merge. Then they defeat the two Manas with elemental powers. I hadn't played MNOG in a while when I first read Chronicles #1, and I thought in my head, "this isn't how I remember it..." You see the constant fighting between sources? Then it has the Shadow Toa battle, which had never been portrayed before. That was great! But then Greg says, "that's not really how it went." I'll side with Greg on this one, because the original Shadow Toa battle was going to be portrayed in the canceled video game.The 2002 flash episodes and comics fit well, like before. Chronicles #2 seemed to be making obvious attempts to fit with those sources, but there was one instance where something went wrong again. Chapter 5 says that the heads on the Path of Prophecies were already toppled when Pohatu first returned to Po-Koro, but the online episode shows that they were not.Again, the 2003 Kal flash episodes flowed with the comics. Unfortunately, Chronicles #3 has some obvious inconsistencies, such as how Lewa lost his powers.So you have three separate writers, fighting for control over the story. Greg (the story team), Templar Studios, and Hapka. Greg and Templar always agree, but then Hapka shows up years later and confuses us all. Eventually, when the Bionicle story team were the only writers, everything came together better. In my order of events, I only include the parts of the Chronicles that didn't contradict the known plot.
Yes, this was very annoying, mostly because I read the Chronicles books and took them as fact until about 2009 when Bioniclestory.com updated with the Year summaries and I read that actual 2001 story= MNOG. Nice surprise.

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1. Too many alternate dimensions. I enjoyed Dark Mirror and that other universe Takanuva went to where Matoro didn't use the Ignika, but after that they became really overused.2. Vezon. I thought he was really cool in 06 and FoF, but he overstayed his welcome in Destiny War and Reign of Shadows, IMO.3. The end of the Brothers In Arms serial. (This kind of goes with point #1) I was really expecting a huge showdown between Mazeka and Vultraz in Karda Nui, but instead they get sent to an alternate dimension. I didn't feel like that gave their story the proper closure it needed. (Though the end of this serial did introduce Light Teridax to the story, which is a huge plus. :))


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@Zestanor (because I don't feel like quoting a long post XP): Thanks for explaining! I didn't think that was the worst part of Bionicle, though (or even one of the worst) mainly because I enjoyed Hapka's books and just viewed them as a different way to tell the story. The characters had some nice personality in the books, I thought, and even if not everything is canon (like the shadow toa battle you mentioned which I thought was a really awesome concept) the books still had some nice aspects to the story. I think of it as a re-telling of the same story; there are bound to be inconsistencies (look at Cinderella for example. Over time a lot changed with that story such as the introduction of the Fairy Godmother. Even so, the story is famous today, with the inclusion of the Godmother and all of its changes -particularly Disney's rendition-).

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Riddle of the freakin' Great Beings. 'Nuff said.


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First of all, there were a lot of loose ends to tie up. The fans were also craving for more than just six elements, and when they gave us more, they were just variations of the elements we had now or didn't play an important part in the storyline whatsoever. One thing that could have improved the storyline would get rid of the gender-oriented elements, because it just didn't seem right. It would have opened the floodgates to a lot of creative writing and interesting characters - girls aren't always peaceful in calm. That is one major complaint I have about the storyline - lack of female characters and the gender-oriented elements.Secondly, I think the jumbled and obviously confusing storyline is the hardest thing to tackle. There was so much extra information and data that people couldn't comprehend because they had to remember everything else tied with that component in the story. It was impossible to follow, which was mainly why they dumped the line in the first place - new followers of the BIONICLE story couldn't even understand half of what was going on.In layman's terms, there's just too much that it's hard to pick just one terrible part. There were good times and bad times in BIONICLE, but I believe the bad times outweighed the pros of the storyline and the sets.


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As someone who got most his knowledge of 2005-2008 through BS01, I'm going to have to agree that the way the story was fragmented is really a pain. You've got more alternate universes than you can shake a stick at, goodness knows how many villain/hero teams, and enough shadowy background organizations to give Lemony Snicket a headache. 2009's reboot actually probably would have done quite some good if it hadn't been rushed so badly in the end.


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Overuse of alternate dimensions.

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When it ended. Nuff said


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The biggest mistake was not ending it in 2008. I re-watched that clip where mata-nui wakes up and the Toa fulfill their destiny...2009 and 2010 just didn't do much for me. I disliked the characters, the setting was uninteresting, and the plot was bare and there wasn't much room for expanding the world. In the first year Greg spent most of the serials going off the boundaries of the map, so I can't say there was much promise. It also would have cleaned up the story if they left everything in the giant robot. I would rather have a rebel uprising for 2009 in a new, never before seen island with new, never before seen Toa. And now lego doesn't have any franchise with such a serious, diverse storyline. Oh well. At least they managed to finish the story.

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The toyline ending as early as it did. <_<Also the sudden voice and personality change in Tuma in TLR. Oh, and the way beings leave the Matoran Universe being a plain old door in the robot's foot.


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2009 and 2010. Seriously,the beginning of 2009 was good,but then Mata-nui comes and "gives a slow-moving tortoise a rocket-fueled Jetpack". It was just too,rushed. The story makers were in a hurry,I guess.


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The biggest mistake was not ending it in 2008. I re-watched that clip where mata-nui wakes up and the Toa fulfill their destiny...2009 and 2010 just didn't do much for me. I disliked the characters, the setting was uninteresting, and the plot was bare and there wasn't much room for expanding the world. In the first year Greg spent most of the serials going off the boundaries of the map, so I can't say there was much promise. It also would have cleaned up the story if they left everything in the giant robot. I would rather have a rebel uprising for 2009 in a new, never before seen island with new, never before seen Toa. And now lego doesn't have any franchise with such a serious, diverse storyline. Oh well. At least they managed to finish the story.

I don't think the Bionicle story could have done without 2009-10. I do wish that they done 2009 story better, but I think it needed to be there. Back in 2001, we started off with this animation of Makuta vs. Mata Nui. A lot of the storyline in between here and then was Makuta's minions vs. Mata Nui's minions, although there were exceptions to the rule (Toa vs. Makuta, but that was due to Makuta and the Toa being in the same robot). I feel that Mata Nui and Makuta actually showing up and fighting it out was inevitable from the beginning - that we started with the symbolic conflict between the two and ended with the two fighting as real characters. And what's with the lack of promise? It's a whole entire new world, with almost indefinite possibilities for worldbuilding/expansion. I see you mentioning a map of BM, and I'll agree that that map of BM on Bionicle.com downloads was vastly underdetailed and incomplete, but two years of story shouldn't be thrown out on the basis of a faulty map.

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Riddle of the freakin' Great Beings. 'Nuff said.

I actually forgot about this serial, and I agree with you on the latter chapters of it. The first 4-5 chapters, however, were good, IMO. (Since they introduced us to Surel and the Iron Wolves.) But all the following chapters weren't as great.And the ending....well, it was really disappointing to say the least.

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To everyone compaining about the Stars: they were hastily made to appeal to the fans just as it ended. There almost were no final sets, so be happy that you at least got something. This topic is also only about the story, as indicated in the OP and forum it's posted in.~B~

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Nothing was more heinous than the clustermuck that was the 2005 story. I don't blame anyone in particular for it; I think that after four years of rampant success with the theme, BIONICLE tried to take things to the next level just by "exploding" the story. Like 2004, we had the same heroes, a movie, and the comics. However, since 2003 had altered the canister release cycle by being a year with two sets of villains, 2004 and 2005 had to awkwardly avoid dealing with the canister villains until their summer release dates. They did well in 2004 by having the Toa Metru's first antagonist be a giant plant (the Morbuzahk, which clearly could not be a set) and keeping the Vahki and the Dark Hunters "behind the scenes". However, such a clever idea was not implemented in 2005. To make matters worse, Lego did this RIDICULOUS opposite release of the Visorak and the Toa Hordika. In Spring 2005, the Europeans had Visorak, Sidorak, Roodaka, Keetongu, and the Rahaga. In the USA, we had the Toa Hordika and Rahaga only. Suddenly, the Visorak did not need to kept in the "shadows" story-wise like the Vahki the year before. But it caused a lot of chagrin to have Hordika in the USA with no Visorak to battle, and vice-versa in Europe (though I dare say they at least had Keetongu and the Rahaga as partial hero subsitutes).With this weird set release pattern, the story took a turn for the convoluted. Now, the Toa Hordika had to battle not only Visorak, but their primal, bestial natures that were slowly taking over their minds. This is a sound idea, and it is still a great part of the BIONICLE story, since it comes to question what it means to be a Toa (up until that point, the only time we saw "dark-side" Toa was whenever Lewa wore an infected mask and when he was Krana'd). As a result, the Toa Hordika's quest was two-fold.

  • [*]Rescue the remaining sleeping Matoran and bring them to the new island above.[*]Find a way to return to their normal Toa Metru selves.

Things now start to get convoluted. The Rahaga told the Hordika of Keetongu, but suggested that in the meantime, they learn to control their Rahi instincts and altered powers. Vakama doesn't really jive with this, becomes frustrated, and leaves the team. This was all seen in the movie "Web of Shadows". However, we all know that wasn't the only story source. Before defecting, Vakama and company encounter and battle strange creatures aligned with Sidorak and his horde. They also go a mini-quest to find the Mask of Light. This was detailed in some online videos. Then, there was an aborted online comic concerning the Hordika's quest for sleeping Turaga Dume. Then, in the comics, we got a flashback to when the Rahaga were Toa themselves, and of how they came to be transformed. Then there is all that stuff in the movie.Your head might not be spinning, but I'm sure if you were 7 or 8 or however old you were seven years ago, this was frustrating to follow. I'll break it down again with the numbered bullets.

  • [*]Rescue the sleeping Matoran and bring them to their new island home.[*]Find a way (Keetongu) to return to their norma selves.[*]Find the Mask of Light with the Makoki Stones and keep it away from the Visorak.[*]Rescue the real Turaga Dume.[*]Find and redeem Vakama.[*]Defeat Sidorak, Roodaka, and the horde; keep Makuta from being freed.

Out of those six quests I outlined, five of them were going on concurrently, and I may even be forgetting some things, since there were books as well. In any case, the first half of 2005 was really hard to follow, and hopefully, you'll agree with me. As convoluted as many say years like 2006 onwards were, 2005 really was the most jarring for fans after 4 years of relative consistency and stability.


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The only things I can complain about are after 2007. Well, the Toa Inika losing their Matoran personalities and becoming violent barbarians, shooting the Piraka with their lasers and basically trying to kill everyone wasn't a good choice in my opinion. But at least 2006 was straightforward and interesting. And everything between 2001 and 2005 were (almost) perfect (there are always little flaws, but they were not major concerning the overall plot).2007 - The characters were absolutely ridiculous and the serials came in, making everything complicated. Hasty ending.2008 - This year had a good idea, but the whole Makuta being a species was off. I like to think of them as allies of Makuta, members of the Brotherhood of Makuta, but not the same species. The Toa Nuva also suddenly became very aggressive and their humor... well... degraded. Also, the massively confusing serials were just horrible. Especially Brothers in Arms. Why, oh why?2009 - This year could've been good. The problem again was the serials and the confusing backstory of all the characters. The canister sets weren't tied together unlike in previus years. Vorox was an animal, Skrall a species, Malum an exiled Glatorian and only the rest had anything in common. Same thing next wave. Gelu wasn't included in the movie at all, Stronius represented a species, Vastus's role was minor and only Mata Nui, Kiina and Ackar were portrayed as important. This, in my opinion, was the reason for 2009's failure. Greg tried to create a rich story environment, but ended up confusing the poor kids.2010 - This year had the purpose of ending Bionicle and therefore it's rushed ending was understandable. The mistakes were made earlier in 2009, not 2010. Although Makuta's death could've been a bit more epic. Or at least something that didn't destroy Metru Nui...Overall, I conclude that the worst thing about Bionicle is the serials. They never worked. They introduced the alternate universes and made the story hard to follow. They also messed up the personalities of several characters pretty bad (Mahri in Reign of Shadows).

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I don't think the Bionicle story could have done without 2009-10. I do wish that they done 2009 story better, but I think it needed to be there.Back in 2001, we started off with this animation of Makuta vs. Mata Nui. A lot of the storyline in between here and then was Makuta's minions vs. Mata Nui's minions, although there were exceptions to the rule (Toa vs. Makuta, but that was due to Makuta and the Toa being in the same robot). I feel that Mata Nui and Makuta actually showing up and fighting it out was inevitable from the beginning - that we started with the symbolic conflict between the two and ended with the two fighting as real characters.And what's with the lack of promise? It's a whole entire new world, with almost indefinite possibilities for worldbuilding/expansion. I see you mentioning a map of BM, and I'll agree that that map of BM on Bionicle.com downloads was vastly underdetailed and incomplete, but two years of story shouldn't be thrown out on the basis of a faulty map.

Well, Bara Magna didn't seem as exiting. There's only so much you can add to a world with six tribes in a desert world. I don't know, but compared with a giant robot filled with dozens of islands, each with many different cities, tribes, Rahi, and landforms, not to mention two practacially undeveloped continents, the new planet just didn't feel as big or developed.Of course, we only saw one year focused on developing the world but... well, it could have been pulled off much better. Just adding more than six tribes would have made it more itneresting for me. I think bionicle could have continued well beyond 2008, but the way they 'rebooted' it didn't work.

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The movies. They could have been so much better and still have promoted the sets. The movies could have had1) Better writing2) Been longer3) Better jokes4) Less "we do what we do because we're good guys"5) Better character development6) And they also could have made more sense

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Most of the serials. They really kinda stretched a pretty straightforward story into something it didn't need to be. Some things, like the Toa Nuva Blog and Federation of Fear/Destiny War, were good to have because the events that occurred in them actually had decent impact on the main story. But Dreams of Destruction (and Brothers in Arms, really) felt like a "To sell toys" story that wasn't needed. Dwellers in Darkness, while nice that it focused on the Hagah, had a plot that really fell short. I think had it focused on things the Hagah actually did during the war as opposed to "we gotta find Teridax/'kay we found him/now we're mindwiped" it would've been a lot better.Reign of Shadows is the main one I was disappointed with. It looked like it was going to feature this one ragtag group of stragglers in Teridax's universe, but it wasn't. It then seemed like it was going to be Destiny War-style, focusing on what's actually happening as far as general resistence, but then there was that Vezon chapter and it pretty much turned into a continuation of Dwellers in Darkness - incredibly boring with Artakha thrown in for good measure. It just completely lost its focus and ended up doing nothing.The two Bara Magna serials were a lot better; Empire of the Skrall gave some great characterization for Tuma and Stronius (the former was oh-so-unfortunately reduced to fodder in the movie, but I digress), while Riddle of the Great Beings had a really good premise.I guess the main problem I had with these was the overall execution. BIONICLE EU stories would've been great had they actually tried to tie into the main story while not necessarily being needed to keep up with the main story. I think the main difference in quality was that Greg had a lot more control with the serials and had a rabid fanbase he tried to appease at the same time. With a full story team, I believe there would've been a lot more solid and straight a direction as opposed to the convoluted mess they turned into.


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I think everything during 2010 and after was just disappointing. Not entirely bad, because it was enjoyable, but around the point where Greg was having to hurry to wrap up loose ends and finish the story. Teridax's departure to go fight Mata-Nui was a little forced and I still can't get over how despite ten years of building him up and making him this terrifying, immortal force, he gets killed by getting smashed in the face with a rock. Then we had the explanation of how every resident of the Matoran Universe was actually the result of a glitch in their AI, which irked me. Oh, and the fact that alternate dimensions and characters returning from the dead started to become as common as Lego pieces in a set.


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The Element Lords. Even the name was just cheesy, and I think they're really pointless. The Sisters of the Skrall was also a "lolwut" moment for me.But the worst part was Greg being too busy to finish all of the side-plots that he started. Who is the Great Being in disguise? Who killed Karzahni? We might never know.

Edited by Yon

For me, BIONICLE was an epic science fantasy saga with a deep and complex lore, and was best when it was exactly that in its later years. I'm not sorry if that offended you.

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IMO the ending was too rushed, and the story was way too spread through media, and it wasn't side stuff that isn't very important to the main storyline but deep, important stuff. Heck, in a 2005 comic the narrator in-story advertises a book! Then again if they hadn't put that, people that hadn't read the book would be confused when they saw that piece of dialogue between Nokama and Onewa.

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While some of the serials were great, some of them really served little purpose other than confusing the story. But that isn't my main problem. I've been going back though Bionicle and trying to figure out where the disembodied parts of the story go. The most confusing by far was the year 2005, as mentioned by someone else earlier. At first one might assume that the books and the comics are parallel, but they really can't be. I don't know if they were supposed to be parallel, but it just doesn't work. So the story goes something like this:-Toa arrive at Metru Nui and explore (BA7)-They get mutated and meet the Rahaga (BA7)-They search for airship parts (BA8)-They capture the 'Tower of Toa' (BA8)-They go back to searching for parts (comics 23-24)-They fail to capture the Coliseum (comics 26-27)-They disband (unportrayed)-They find the Makoki stones and the Mask of Light.And this really isn't that ridiculously hard to piece together, since BA8 was released before comics 23-27. The real problem is the Web of Shadows movie. Here is its story:-Toa arrive at Metru Nui-They get mutated and meet the Rahaga and Vakama defects-They find Keetongu-They battle the Visorak at the Coliseum-Vakama returns-They accidentally free Makuta!-Keetongu un-mutates them-They fly away with the MatoranThe problem is that the larger part of the story doesn't occur, according to the movie. Of course, in Greg's novelization of the movie, he clears everything up, but those who only watched the movie were eternally confuzzled. (If you were wondering, the movie makes it seem like the appearance of the Rahaga and Vakama's defection are back-to-back. The novelization explains that Vakama just had the habit of wandering off, and that the events were not back-to-back, allowing for the rest of the story.)So yeah, the worst part of Bionicle was the confusion.

Edited by Zestanor

Has following the story become too complex? Look no further:


How to Follow BIONICLE

A Simple, chronological checklist

UPDATE May 22 2013: Every is now color coded!

Contains every bit of content, organized by story year

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Never mind, my previous post was wrong. The worst part of Bionicle, hands down, was the awful Bionicle Heroes cutscenes. What were they thinking?

Edited by bonesiii
Please remember to keep posts appropriate. -bones

"Well, Mr. Louie, that leaves big Max all alone for you."

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Never mind, my previous post was wrong. The worst part of Bionicle, hands down, was the awful Bionicle Heroes cutscenes. What were they thinking?

Hey hey hey - I LIKED those.

 

 

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