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X-Men: Discussion Topic

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#441 Online Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 09:54 PM

Yep. Sort of like Islamophobia, except more extreme.And you have some interesting views.Why not take those viewsAnd put them in the motuh of a character?We could use a mutant Martin Luther King Jr.
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#442 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 09:55 PM

I'm going to have General Yuri give a very nice speech if things go as planned actually.


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#443 Online Simon the Digger

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 09:57 PM

@Kray

 

So basically all the hate on mutants is due to a certain number of them being stupid. Real smart.

Have you heard of a little group called the Brotherhood? You know, they busted everyone out of Riker's Island, toppled Enforcer Tower, and killed multiple news crews and highjacked their on air shows over the span of a few weeks.It isn't a small number. It's a significant number.And what you aren't taking into account, any of you, actually, is that the Enforcers aren't inherently out to kill mutants. They're out to kill unregistered mutants, and even then they do not go for the kill until the foe is shown to be hostile. If a mutant registers, they only face prejudice. And as history has shown us time and time again, prejudice can be beaten through nonviolent methods. But most of the PCs in this game are unregistered, and as a result, have made themselves enemies of society by their own choice.


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#444 Online Axilus Prime

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:03 PM

In that case, Kray, then there is no need to slaughter all the mutants. Seems like a system that'd work if the general human population held up their deal by not being biased against these mutants.

 

In other words, in this RPG, the major factions are all stupid.


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#445 Online Brooklyn Pace-Carlisle

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:04 PM

Yep. Sort of like Islamophobia, except more extreme.And you have some interesting views.Why not take those viewsAnd put them in the motuh of a character?We could use a mutant Martin Luther King Jr.

 

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#446 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:05 PM

All it takes is one Mutant going rogue and boom, hundreds of people dead. I for one, don't want their deaths weighing on my mind. The elmination of Mutants is the only option. It will save lives.


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#447 Online Simon the Digger

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:10 PM

In that case, Kray, then there is no need to slaughter all the mutants. Seems like a system that'd work if the general human population held up their deal by not being biased against these mutants.

 

In other words, in this RPG, the major factions are all stupid.

Tell me. If a rebellious teenager down the hall had the ability to make things blow up by looking at them, would you be concerned?All of the characters in this RPG save a few? They consciously chose to be targets. The system is in place, and bias will exist regardless. Until newer generations accept them, that's just a fact. Even now, bias exists in the world that you're claiming is the model of what it should look like.

 

And you can call the factions stupid when you actually have any experience with them to go by. :P


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#448 Offline More Fierce Than Fire

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:13 PM

All it takes is one Mutant going rogue and boom, hundreds of people dead. I for one, don't want their deaths weighing on my mind. The elmination of Mutants is the only option. It will save lives.

 

Maybe so...but how? Sure if you have the tools and brains you can take out all the mutants on Earth...but then more are going to be born. Going to kill them too? Kill babies in their crib? Going to kill everyone who might even be carrying a mutative gene, like people with red hair? Its a war you cannot win. You'd have to kill everyone on the planet, and would lose popular opinion and be stopped by someone long before that


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#449 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:16 PM

All it takes is one Mutant going rogue and boom, hundreds of people dead. I for one, don't want their deaths weighing on my mind. The elmination of Mutants is the only option. It will save lives.

 

Maybe so...but how? Sure if you have the tools and brains you can take out all the mutants on Earth...but then more are going to be born. Going to kill them too? Kill babies in their crib? Going to kill everyone who might even be carrying a mutative gene, like people with red hair? Its a war you cannot win. You'd have to kill everyone on the planet, and would lose popular opinion and be stopped by someone long before that

 

Gene therapy. Suspended animation until a cure is found. There are options. The second the X-Gene is found, a cure is given. Or a power-restraint collar or killchip or whatever is implanted. Humanity must be kept safe.

 

I'll win this war if I have to build an army of giant robots to patrol the ci-oh wait....


Edited by Basilisk, Mar 04 2013 - 10:16 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#450 Offline The Otter

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:24 PM

...All hail our Overlord, Tyler the Great.

 

....Please don't hurt me.

 

Pffffff

 

Don't worry, you're safe. You're with me.


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#451 Offline .:The Abysswalker:.

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 10:53 PM

What an interesting discussion this has evolved into.


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#452 Offline Flex Till Death

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:09 PM

Indeed. Its making me wonder that if the majority of the X-Men shouldn't just register with the Enforcers so they'd possibly be more tolerated and could maybe even fight on the same side XD.

 

Though there would be the few who couldn't register and would have to hide out at the mansion: John, Matt and Alex.


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#453 Offline .:The Abysswalker:.

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:12 PM

While it would be easier, it wouldn't necessarily solve as many problems as they would like. They would still be looked down upon for being so different, and, if not tested upon to try and remove the mutant strain, at best, they'd be corralled into some settlement like lower beings, or used as weapons. Or it could go differently. But I don't personally believe it would.


Edited by .:Advent Aeternale:., Mar 04 2013 - 11:12 PM.

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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."


#454 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:12 PM

Well if nothing else, hopefully the Enforcers won't be treated as a bunch of thugs who just want to beat up on the poor Mutants. :P


Edited by Basilisk, Mar 04 2013 - 11:12 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#455 Offline .:The Abysswalker:.

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:14 PM

I think the point of view on the Enforcers comes entirely down to the way they're RPd. I haven't been party to a single Enforcer/Mutant conflict where good communication has occurred, and the Enforcers weren't under orders to practically be hostile on arrival.


Edited by .:Advent Aeternale:., Mar 04 2013 - 11:14 PM.

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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."


#456 Offline Commander Viral

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:20 PM

I think the point of view on the Enforcers comes entirely down to the way they're RPd. I haven't been party to a single Enforcer/Mutant conflict where good communication has occurred, and the Enforcers weren't under orders to practically be hostile on arrival.

Riker's Island, the Enforcers were sent to stop the fight, and keep the prisoners in prison. Upon arriving they gave a warning to all participates to cease and desist, the others didn't listen.

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#457 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:25 PM

Right. I'm booored.

 

Would anyone mind if I retcon Yuri's destination?

 

Furthermore, does anyone have a character with plausible reason for meeting with him in New York?


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#458 Offline .:The Abysswalker:.

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:27 PM

That's not an example of good communication. The Enforcers resorted to threats immediately upon arrival, and while I'm not condemning their actions, as they were dealing with criminals and escaping prisoners, they didn't try to communicate diplomatically or well in any fashion. It was sort of:

 

"[color=#0000cd;]Get back in there, or we'll shoot ya.[/color]"

 

"[color=#ff0000;]Blarghle.[/color]"

 

"[color=#0000cd;]Well, we tried. Kill 'em dead.[/color]"


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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."


#459 Offline Flex Till Death

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:28 PM

Apparently registering according to Alex is just your complete abilities going into a database along with your fingerprints. Currently the Enforcer's have incomplete files on the X-Men from public knowledge. I plan to research the registration a bit myself.


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#460 Offline .:The Abysswalker:.

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:53 PM

Right. I'm booored.

 

Would anyone mind if I retcon Yuri's destination?

 

Furthermore, does anyone have a character with plausible reason for meeting with him in New York?

 

I don't see a reason why you can't move Yuri. I have no characters with a plausible reason to meet him, though.


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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."


#461 Offline Commander Viral

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:53 PM

That's not an example of good communication. The Enforcers resorted to threats immediately upon arrival, and while I'm not condemning their actions, as they were dealing with criminals and escaping prisoners, they didn't try to communicate diplomatically or well in any fashion. It was sort of: "[color=#0000cd;]Get back in there, or we'll shoot ya.[/color]" "[color=#ff0000;]Blarghle.[/color]" "[color=#0000cd;]Well, we tried. Kill 'em dead.[/color]"

So if a murderer escapes you negotiate? I'm pretty sure law enforcement arrests those who escape, not "Let's settle this over a cup of tea."They were locked into prison, the enforcers at Riker's Island were trying to keep them there. Killing was only if containment wasn't possible.

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"I'll tell you two things: First, any human on the surface will be completely annihilated by our Human Eradication Army. Second, that is my dinner - give it back!"
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#462 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:54 PM

Thanks!

 

....So anyone...anyone at all? I can even change the city location if need be.


Edited by Basilisk, Mar 04 2013 - 11:54 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#463 Offline .:The Abysswalker:.

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:56 PM

That's not an example of good communication. The Enforcers resorted to threats immediately upon arrival, and while I'm not condemning their actions, as they were dealing with criminals and escaping prisoners, they didn't try to communicate diplomatically or well in any fashion. It was sort of: "[color=#0000cd;]Get back in there, or we'll shoot ya.[/color]" "[color=#ff0000;]Blarghle.[/color]" "[color=#0000cd;]Well, we tried. Kill 'em dead.[/color]"

So if a murderer escapes you negotiate? I'm pretty sure law enforcement arrests those who escape, not "Let's settle this over a cup of tea."They were locked into prison, the enforcers at Riker's Island were trying to keep them there. Killing was only if containment wasn't possible.

 

Like I said, I'm not condemning what was done. The Enforcers were dealing with criminals and escapees. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna sit here and act like that's an example of good communication. Especially since some of those that the Enforcers were dealing with were not of the opinion that they were on the wrong or evil side, regardless of whether or not they actually were.


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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."


#464 Offline Commander Viral

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Posted Mar 04 2013 - 11:59 PM

Thanks! ....So anyone...anyone at all? I can even change the city location if need be.

What sort of meeting is Yuri going for anyhow?

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"I'll tell you two things: First, any human on the surface will be completely annihilated by our Human Eradication Army. Second, that is my dinner - give it back!"
2lxvyvp.jpg


#465 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 12:00 AM

Thanks! ....So anyone...anyone at all? I can even change the city location if need be.

What sort of meeting is Yuri going for anyhow?

 

Likely something to do with law enforcement, intelligence, military matters etc. Anything like that really. 


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#466 Offline Commander Viral

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 12:04 AM

Likely something to do with law enforcement, intelligence, military matters etc. Anything like that really.

Yeah... I might have a guy in a few days, but I doubt Yuri wants to meet with a registered mutant, even if said mutant is rich and well informed.

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"I'll tell you two things: First, any human on the surface will be completely annihilated by our Human Eradication Army. Second, that is my dinner - give it back!"
2lxvyvp.jpg


#467 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 12:05 AM

Yeah. A few days doesn't really help me there.

 

.....Well, this is just lovely. Bah. 


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#468 Online Gold Experience

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 12:08 AM

TNG, make a sign-up or get out of here before I decide to bring up incredibly disturbing mental images.

 

Seriously.


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#469 Online Axilus Prime

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 12:30 AM

Sorry Hubert, too busy trying to start a COT RPG and at the same time co-host another.

 

The ethics debate just caught my attention.

 

But seeing as it's basically over, I probably won't pop up here again.


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#470 Offline Madara: Mangekyou Master

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 01:35 AM

Apparently registering according to Alex is just your complete abilities going into a database along with your fingerprints. Currently the Enforcer's have incomplete files on the X-Men from public knowledge. I plan to research the registration a bit myself.

How about names?

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#471 Offline First Son Jiyu

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 10:53 AM

I would assume that they would have names on-hand to.

 

Also, with just fingerprints and names, you'd be able to a good deal of damage to any mutants that you don't particularly care for. Especially the whole 'public database' part. That pretty much gets my goat over it. Now, if it had restricted access to only government officials, or Enforcer members, then more mutants would be OK with it...

 

[color=#ffffff;]Enforcers = Purifiers[/color]


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What have they done?
Forget those mindless baboons
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#472 Offline Madara: Mangekyou Master

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 11:22 AM

I would assume that they would have names on-hand to. Also, with just fingerprints and names, you'd be able to a good deal of damage to any mutants that you don't particularly care for. Especially the whole 'public database' part. That pretty much gets my goat over it. Now, if it had restricted access to only government officials, or Enforcer members, then more mutants would be OK with it... [color=#ffffff;]Enforcers = Purifiers[/color]

I was under the impression that access to the database was restricted to specific government agencies.

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#473 Online Simon the Digger

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 01:59 PM

I would assume that they would have names on-hand to.

 

Also, with just fingerprints and names, you'd be able to a good deal of damage to any mutants that you don't particularly care for. Especially the whole 'public database' part. That pretty much gets my goat over it. Now, if it had restricted access to only government officials, or Enforcer members, then more mutants would be OK with it...

 

[color=#ffffff;]Enforcers = Purifiers[/color]

It isn't something you can access as a citizen. Only government officials can view it, and along similar lines, it is something that would have to be presented to a prospective employer. Similar to disabilities, or personal records.

 

In other words, your point is invalid. :P Mangekyou: Yes, names are included in the entries.


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#474 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 04:33 PM

His point would be invalid regardless. I'd very much like to know if there was someone capable of wiping out my entire block near me. Safety of the many comes first.


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#475 Offline thelonewander

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 04:48 PM

after reading all of this, would it not be simpler to just give mutants, say, the moon? or something similar? get them off planet. They live, Humanity is safe. It's that or the genocide of an entire race of people. City levelers? sure, kill them. but what about mutants with more defensive abilities? PreCogs, for example. they don't have the power that some one like Magento had, or QuickSilver does. 


Edited by thelonewander, Mar 05 2013 - 04:48 PM.

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War...war never changes.

A wanderer always walks the lonesome road at some point. always

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We crawl, on our knees for you,
under, a sky no longer blue,
we sweat, all day long for you.

But we sow, seeds to see us though,
cause sometimes dreams just don't come true,
we wait, to reap what we are due.

Everything I touch turns to Ashes,

...It slips right though my hands


#476 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 04:49 PM

Precogs could bring ruin to the stock market or otherwise destabilize the world. Leaving any Mutant with powers, in any position where they could challenge humanity, is too much of a risk.


Edited by Basilisk, Mar 05 2013 - 04:54 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#477 Online Brooklyn Pace-Carlisle

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 04:51 PM

Well, if we're gonna kill anything that could play the stock market...

 

-Tyler


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#478 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 04:52 PM

Well, if we're gonna kill anything that could play the stock market...

 

-Tyler

 

The difference between a precog and the normal type of slime that plays the Stock Market is much like the difference between a planet killing torpedo and a cannon.


Edited by Basilisk, Mar 05 2013 - 04:53 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#479 Online Brooklyn Pace-Carlisle

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 05:02 PM

Except you're pretty much chalking it up to "a mutant is like every problem in the world, except the problems are BIGGER" and it's coming off as paranoia at this point by registering all the stuff mutants could do.

 

I mean, seriously. I could set a huge fire with a good bit of kerosene and the right match, just like a pyrokinetic. Sure, it takes less effort, but the point is that most sane, rational people aren't going to set the fire in the first place. Ditto for playing the stock market, which no one wants in on even if they can read it because then there definitely will be government suits watching you.

 

Yes, left unchecked, mutants could be a problem. But not as big of one as you're making them out to be at this stage of the argument.

 

-Tyler


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#480 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

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Posted Mar 05 2013 - 05:05 PM

after reading all of this, would it not be simpler to just give mutants, say, the moon? or something similar? get them off planet. They live, Humanity is safe. It's that or the genocide of an entire race of people. City levelers? sure, kill them. but what about mutants with more defensive abilities? PreCogs, for example. they don't have the power that some one like Magento had, or QuickSilver does. 

The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert A. Heinlein. Read it, it'll serve you well.

 

To sum up the point, banishing your unwantables to the moon never, ever, ends well.


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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong





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