Bzprpg News And Discussion

[EmperorWhenua]

As is explained time after time in this very topic, this is the BZPRPG. The realism we have in here is different than in real life; the reality here is that the weapon has the special ability to freeze the molecules of something by contact, thereby making it fragile enough so that it shatters. It's a power of the tool which is fitting since it is controlled by toa of ice. I fail to see what your beef is.

[a goose]

As is explained time after time in this very topic, this is the BZPRPG. The realism we have in here is different than in real life; the reality here is that the weapon has the special ability to freeze the molecules of something by contact, thereby making it fragile enough so that it shatters. It's a power of the tool which is fitting since it is controlled by toa of ice. I fail to see what your beef is.

I, personally, find a sword that can shatter anything just a bit overpowered and somewhat unrealistic, even here.- Vorex

[Constructelf]

Is it the sword or the shattering you have a problem with?

[otter]

It would make sense if, say, it took a bit of Hiemalis's elemental energy to be able to do that. Seeing as, y'know, any sword or dagger could be a Toa Tool-it's there to help channel and focus your power. Not to be able to do random stuff by itself. Y'know,"Interesting. The power is in me. The sword is but the focus."Not, y'know,"Interesting. The power is in the sword. I am but the controller."

[They]

Ooh! And intriguing discussion. Kughii's jumping on the bandwagon folks. A toa tool is a special kind of tool. Therefore, I personally believe it should be allowed to have a special power equal to the status the tool implies. The mata had basic toa tools, simple melee weapons trough which to channel their elements. By this means, I find the simple rapier used to channel the elet of ice perfectly suitable. Proto dermis can freeze (ko-koro is built out of the stuff) and eventually shatter. I am fully wit EW here: te a toa tool. I am not, however, talking about the autohit discussion. IMO that discussion has ended.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Kughii

[Constructelf]

Maybe the sword is such a good conductor of heat that simply being around Hiemalis turns it ice cold?Edit: Kughii, I don't quite get it.Also, are you going to do a Kani IC or are you waiting for Kakaru?

Edited October 26, 2012 by Constructman

[EmperorWhenua]

Then I wonder if you also have the opinion that a Ta-Toa's tool can't become blanketed with flame and melt metal to slag, or that the same thing for a Toa of Plasma can be used to slice through stone. I bet you also don't agree that a Ga-Toa's tool shouldn't be able to fine tune a stream of water into a point so thin it can cut armor, or any other example. The fact is that these toa tools (not just pure weapons) can be used to channel the energies of a toa in some very creative, even absolute ways. In the case of Hiemalis, his sword can conduct the cold that he naturally has to the point of freezing objects and making them brittle. It's elemental. Face it, everything in this game is overpowered; these characters control fundamental forces of nature. My technique is simply creative and unorthodox, as is much of what I do. I find your opinion states a baseless idea and I don't agree.

[Krayzikk]

Ooh! And intriguing discussion. Kughii's jumping on the bandwagon folks.A toa tool is a special kind of tool. Therefore, I personally believe it should be allowed to have a special power equal to the status the tool implies. The mata had basic toa tools, simple melee weapons trough which to channel their elements. By this means, I find the simple rapier used to channel the elet of ice perfectly suitable. Proto dermis can freeze (ko-koro is built out of the stuff) and eventually shatter. I am fully wit EW here: te a toa tool.I am not, however, talking about the autohit discussion. IMO that discussion has ended.

Actually, just to make sure, I went and I checked BS01 about Toa Tools. They have no special property, they are merely the device used to focus a Toa's power. It has no special power of its own.Which means that it shouldn't be an effect of the tool, but rather of Hiemalis' own elemental abilities. In which case, usage of that move would cost elemental energy, and would not be nearly so quick as was implied in the post.I am leaning toward Grochi's side on this one.EDIT: EW, since you find Grochi's point so "baseless", I will quote the article.

Toa Tools are used primarily to concentrate and channel a Toa's Elemental Powers. Toa can also use the weapons for melee or physical combat.

Note that the article considers "toa tool" synonymous with "weapon".Now, since I am sure that you will be going to check this article as a responsible player, you will say "But Krayzikk! That's only a partial quote! It mentions specifically that some Toa Tools had special properties!"They did. The tools used by the Mata, considered more powerful Toa than any we know in the BZPRPG, the Hagah who may or may not even exist here, and certainly are affected by the same conditions as the Mata. The Hordika, who lost these abilities when they were changed back, and Takanuva.Furthermore, of these exceptions, most of them had to do with transportation, rather than special elemental abilities. Edited October 26, 2012 by Krayzikk Champion of RPGs

[Constructelf]

I never really understood toa tools. It's the toa's mind that does these thingsn in my opinion, and taken from an occult perspective, all of these things (substitute wands and amulets for swords and shields) are just placebos.

[otter]

Like, say, Tahu's swords being on fire. He has to activate that and use EE.A Ga-Toa controlling/shooting water with her weapon. Requires EE.In my mind, it makes perfect sense that Hiemalis could do that, using his sword as a focus. But it seems to me that that is just an always-active ability, always able to do this, without requiring any EE used. That's what gets me.

[a goose]

Then I wonder if you also have the opinion that a Ta-Toa's tool can't become blanketed with flame and melt metal to slag, or that the same thing for a Toa of Plasma can be used to slice through stone. I bet you also don't agree that a Ga-Toa's tool shouldn't be able to fine tune a stream of water into a point so thin it can cut armor, or any other example.

No, I don't believe that. However, I do believe that doing so would cost elemental energy, and quite a lot in the case of cooling something to that point. So, basically, what Krayzikk and Kal said.But there was a Skype convo and I said it first. They just stole my material. - Vorex

[Katuko]

The issue here is not that your blade channels ice, because that is a basic skill of a Toa of Ice. You can write that it's been filled with cold energy by his power and that it bursts into a freezing effect when struck, no problem. I do, however, have a problem with a mere strike super-cooling the target to the point that it shatters.If we all did this every fight would be single-stroke. Make contact with your weapon and the opponent instantly freezes/melts/chokes! Whoohoo!

[EmperorWhenua]

The Toa Hagah used tools with specific abilities inherent in the weapons. Most famously, Toa Norik's weapon had a tool ability to shoot magma from it. Couple this with the argument that Hiemalis merely channeled his power through the sword and that's essentially my argument and an example of it in action in the Bionicle canon.

[otter]

But there was a Skype convo and I said it first. They just stole my material. - Vorex

Lice, lice I say!

[a goose]

The Toa Hagah used tools with specific abilities inherent in the weapons. Most famously, Toa Norik's weapon had a tool ability to shoot magma from it. Couple this with the argument that Hiemalis merely channeled his power through the sword and that's essentially my argument and an example of it in action in the Bionicle canon.

I recall Toa being able to make Toa stones in canon. Does anyone else remember that? - Vorex

[They]

Oh. Dear. My grammar was horrible. Allow me to apologize for typing on an iPod. Anyways, EW, are you replying to myself or Constructman, I found myself slightly confused as to your intended recipient of your last sentence. @ Constructman: essentially, a toa tool can have some really cool power not because of the tool itself, but of how the primordial element of the toa is channeled through the tool. This is what I meant to say. Sorry if there was any confusion. My auto-correct is a real "cool dude" sometimes. @ Krayzikk: I was implying what you just said. By the reasoning of "weapon channels element" I find nothing wrong with the general technique Hiemalis would employ. None at all. I do, however agree about the elemental energy concerns, but then again, everyone here is supernatural.

[otter]

The Toa Hagah used tools with specific abilities inherent in the weapons. Most famously, Toa Norik's weapon had a tool ability to shoot magma from it. Couple this with the argument that Hiemalis merely channeled his power through the sword and that's essentially my argument and an example of it in action in the Bionicle canon.

Like I mentioned earlier, it never seems like you do that. It seems like you treat it as inherent to the sword to be able to shatter any weapon, not Hiemalis channeling his element through the sword.

[Krayzikk]

The Toa Hagah used tools with specific abilities inherent in the weapons. Most famously, Toa Norik's weapon had a tool ability to shoot magma from it. Couple this with the argument that Hiemalis merely channeled his power through the sword and that's essentially my argument and an example of it in action in the Bionicle canon.

You also might note that in canon, the Hagah were considered equal to the Mata, pre-Nuva upgrade. They were equipped by the Brotherhood of Makuta itself.And since the Mata, pre-Nuva upgrade, are considered crazy powerful here, and no one has access to weapons anywhere near the level of the Hagah, that point is invalid.EDIT: Also, what Grcohi said. And Kughii, I agree. I have no problem with the move itself, just the supposed properties of the weapon used to do it. Edited October 26, 2012 by Krayzikk Champion of RPGs

[Light]

I'm leaning toward my own side, which is that toa tools are different from normal weapons (maybe give you more precise control and are tougher) but they don't have their own EE.

[EmperorWhenua]

Hiemalis uses his power through the sword, but the sword uses it specifically to conduct coldness. Does this over simplification make sense to you? The ability for the weapon to freeze and shatter objects is also reliant on the relative size of the object. If Hiemalis tried to use the same tactic on JL's sword, it would have taken longer because it is bigger than Kythera's dagger. The ability is limited in that respect so that it does not translate as a simple shattering of weapons all around from the smallest contact on whatever. Also note that this is the first example of Hiemalis actually using that ability ever, in other words it's not very common.Kughii: I was responding to neither of you. My primary recipient is Grochi and Kray.

Edited October 26, 2012 by EmperorWhenua

[They]

Hospital. There was a bronze sword shattered this way. Alright. Lets call this discussion over. It's starting to become a pitched battle.Edit:@ew: oh! Alright then. Thank you for clarification.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Kughii

[otter]

Hiemalis uses his power through the sword, but the sword uses it specifically to conduct coldness. Does this over simplification make sense to you?The ability for the weapon to freeze and shatter objects is also reliant on the relative size of the object. If Hiemalis tried to use the same tactic on JL's sword, it would have taken longer because it is bigger than Kythera's dagger. The ability is limited in that respect so that it does not translate as a simple shattering of weapons all around from the smallest contact on whatever. Also note that this is the first example of Hiemalis actually using that ability ever, in other words it's not very common.Kughii: I was responding to neither of you. My primary recipient is Grochi and Kray.

Ta-Wahi, Hiemalis versus Hasil. It is not the first example ever.As well, yes, he's conducting coldness through the sword. I get that explanation. And yet, you still RP it as though it's an ability inherent to the sword alone, and that anybody who picked up the sword could do that with the sword-as though the power doesn't come from him focusing his element through the sword, but the sword just does it.

[a goose]

Hiemalis uses his power through the sword, but the sword uses it specifically to conduct coldness. Does this over simplification make sense to you?The ability for the weapon to freeze and shatter objects is also reliant on the relative size of the object. If Hiemalis tried to use the same tactic on JL's sword, it would have taken longer because it is bigger than Kythera's dagger. The ability is limited in that respect so that it does not translate as a simple shattering of weapons all around from the smallest contact on whatever. Also note that this is the first example of Hiemalis actually using that ability ever, in other words it's not very common.

The simplification makes sense, but my point is that it should take more power and time to do so. Especially power.But, since I'm a nice guy and Kughii says the argument is over, I won't be repeating this point again. I think it's been made enough times.- Vorex

[otter]

I just kinda feel the need to evidence an earlier statement.

Hiemalis and Hasil's blades met, but this time, they did not separate, but were glued together like a tongue on a winter pole. Hiemalis' eyes glistened with frost, and Hasil's grip loosened in surprise as his sword's grip grew intensely cold. And then, suddenly, without warning, the blade shattered. Shards of metal dropped like sand on the ground, and Hiemalis stood, menacing, as his sword remained whole. And then he lunged for the kill strike.Ooc: No elemental trick here: It's a property of the weapon. As ironic as it seems, Hiemalis did that honorably.

So, now that that has been proven, let's go back.You've been saying, in here, that the power comes from Hiemalis. And yet, in that OOC, you say it comes from the sword.Which is it, exactly?

[They]

Move this to pm. Now. Thank you.

[EmperorWhenua]

I don't recall using it, even in the hospital setting, but I'll accept that as a bit of misinformation and forgetfulness. Nevertheless, twice in the course of many months isn't exactly a frightening frequency. And yes, I play it as such because it is indeed a capability of the tool because that is how it translates Hiemalis' exertion of energy though it. Technically, any toa of ice could use it in the same way, but it is and will be in Hiemalis' hands, so that's a moot point.

[They]

Pm. Please.

[EmperorWhenua]

It's at the end of the discussion and pertains to more than one person and has implications to the game and its mechanics. I believe it has legitimacy in this topic, Kughii, but thanks for trying to clean this topic out.

[Krayzikk]

I don't recall using it, even in the hospital setting, but I'll accept that as a bit of misinformation and forgetfulness. Nevertheless, twice in the course of many months isn't exactly a frightening frequency. :PAnd yes, I play it as such because it is indeed a capability of the tool because that is how it translates Hiemalis' exertion of energy though it. Technically, any toa of ice could use it in the same way, but it is and will be in Hiemalis' hands, so that's a moot point.

I will say one last thing here, and then I am done.Namely, that in the time since then, Hiemalis has been in only one other fight he used his blade at all. And only three other fights in his whole existence.He used in Hasil v. Hiemalis, and Kythera v. Hiemalis. Out of all the fights he has been in, that I am aware of, this is 40% of the time. Since he first used it, it is 50%. Fights since it was introduced that he actually used his sword, 60%.

[EmperorWhenua]

(Kray's inbox is full as always, so sorry about this. )The hospital battle was about a dozen fights total, so your percentage is greatly inflated.

[otter]

I think we just consider it as one big battle. Like the Battle of Gondor.Sure, there's a bunch of small fights going on,But it all ties into the big battle.It makes counting these up easier.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Kal Grochi

[Katuko]

The Toa Hagah used tools with specific abilities inherent in the weapons. Most famously, Toa Norik's weapon had a tool ability to shoot magma from it. Couple this with the argument that Hiemalis merely channeled his power through the sword and that's essentially my argument and an example of it in action in the Bionicle canon.

Weapons such as Norik's would qualify as an extra power or foreign tech, something our characters in this RPG simply cannot start out with.

The ability for the weapon to freeze and shatter objects is also reliant on the relative size of the object. If Hiemalis tried to use the same tactic on JL's sword, it would have taken longer because it is bigger than Kythera's dagger. The ability is limited in that respect so that it does not translate as a simple shattering of weapons all around from the smallest contact on whatever.

I just have a problem with how quickly ice can shatter metal all of a sudden. Fine making it brittle or super-heated or whatever, but do have the decency to use two posts.

[They]

Pm please. Thank you. Say, what's the news in Ga-wahi. Also Constructman, Kakaru should be posting today.

[Constructelf]

Which brings me back to my point: if he had cooled it down to -276 degrees celsius, or even -196 degrees, he would have been able to shatter it instantly. So where's the line?KUGHII: somebody's pm inbox is full (I can't remember who), so they have to do it here. I think it was Krayzikk; that man's gotta clear up his inbox

Edited October 26, 2012 by Constructman

[They]

Construct man. Stop.

[Constructelf]

See edited post above

[They]

I'll take of krayzikk. Just sit tight and send him a pm in a bit.Edit: okay man. Go ahead and send your pm.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Kughii

[Constructelf]

Are there any other playable elements besides the canon ones, crystal, and blackfire?

[sunflower]

Are there any other playable elements besides the canon ones, crystal, and blackfire?

Yeah, there are a lot of custom elemental powers, but you're gonna have to PM a staffie to use them. (Besides crystal, cause that's already on the list)

[BULiK]

Can someone explain to me what just happened in Ta-Wahi?