Plantlife's gender

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

BS01 states that both Plasma and Gravity Matoran are male. Where did they appear in the canon, and were they referred to by gender pronouns? (BS01 has a shoddy citation system that prevents me from finding that out)

A Toa of Gravity was referred to with the pronoun 'him' in the short story No One Gets Left Behind, which was written by a fan for a story contest and won, and was thus accepted into official canon. I don't know about Plasma, though.

[The 1st Shadow]

Zaktan's fight with Toa of Plasma in one of the 2006 books (probably Legacy of Evil)?

Was the gender mentioned, though? That's what I don't remember. (It's funny--I got the book out for the Plantlife Toa, but I forgot about the PlasmaToa and put it away again. )

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

Zaktan's fight with Toa of Plasma in one of the 2006 books (probably Legacy of Evil)?

Was the gender mentioned, though? That's what I don't remember. (It's funny--I got the book out for the Plantlife Toa, but I forgot about the PlasmaToa and put it away again. )

 

 

yeah, i can assume if it was, it would be a throwaway "he" again, we can say all we want here, but i'm p sure greg is gonna call every background character "he" and it should not be the basis of any discussion. :0

[Dorek]

 

 

Zaktan's fight with Toa of Plasma in one of the 2006 books (probably Legacy of Evil)?

Was the gender mentioned, though? That's what I don't remember. (It's funny--I got the book out for the Plantlife Toa, but I forgot about the PlasmaToa and put it away again. )

 

 

yeah, i can assume if it was, it would be a throwaway "he" again, we can say all we want here, but i'm p sure greg is gonna call every background character "he" and it should not be the basis of any discussion. :0

 

Not taking the author at his (printed, copyrighted, paid for) word isn't enough basis of discussion? Pretty sure that's the only thing keeping this from being relevant. If we didn't take him at his word, asking him to "change" plantlife's gender also wouldn't mean anything. Edited May 12, 2015 by Dorek

[Reznas]

Goodness, you read a topic one day, come back the next and find the craziest things.

 

Can we not all just agree that the gender ratio is screwed up, acknowledge that there should have been more female characters and not go into unnecessary details about a million other things, namely anatomical descriptions that don't even apply to bio-mechanical organisms? 

 

I'd love to see Plantlife canonized as female, by the way. Whether its gender association was based on a typo or not, why not have a female tribe? Why not have more female tribes?

 

-Rez

[Regitnui]

I'd love to see Plantlife canonized as female, by the way. Whether its gender association was based on a typo or not, why not have a female tribe? Why not have more female tribes?

 

-Rez

At the risk of sounding mildly sarcastic; Why not stop fussing over a the fictional gender dynamics of a toyline that ended five years ago? Why not have more awareness that this is a pointless powderkeg that would have exploded by now if we hadn't set it off so many times already?

 

Look, guys, I fail to see the fuss. This is what fan fiction is for. You see the EU Paracosmos up at the top of the forum, right?

[ToaKapura1234]

I prefer to hopefully look at the new story for more female characters than shoehorn in retcons to the old one that don't change that the character gender ratio was heavily skewed. Even changing the genders of characters wouldn't change what was true at the time. It's retconning in a pronoun. If you want to write a story with more female Toa than canon, the go for it! It's your story and you should only take the parts of canon you as the author decide to include, you shouldn't be limited by canon at all. Abolish mono gender elements in your story art headcanon or whatever if you want, nothing is stopping you. It's your story/art/etc. and your creative decision.

[Sybre]

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but why do we still care about the gender ratio of a dead toyline that was aimed toward young boys/early teens (correct me if I'm wrong about the teen part)? G1 hardly matters anymore. G2 is literally a fresh, new start. If you want to try and make a big influence, maybe focus on G2. It's still young and can go anywhere in a short amount of time. As the G2 universe develops, we uncover new things, and more female characters are most definitely a possibility. If that's the case, why bother with G1? It's over, it's done; out with the old, in with the new. G1 has so much set in stone, but G2 still has a lot to confirm. Who knows? We might start seeing female fire Toa or female Plasma Toa, etc. in a few years. Why? Because it's G2. It's shiny, it's new, it's different, so anything can happen, including a more balanced gender ratio! It can happen! It won't happen in G1, cuz beating a dead horse will get you nowhere. As for G2, I like to think of it as a growing, incomplete theme park. There's cool stuff to offer, but the park still has a big, empty field and it needs stuff to fill it with.

 

As for the subject at hand, I'm gonna have to agree with a couple people here and say the Plantlife element might be better off as bi-gendered. [insert plants-having-male-and-female-stuff argument here] If we absolutely have to do this, that's the position I'm taking.

 

Once again, I didn't come here to be mean or start a fight and such. I apologize if I offend anyone.

[Grungemeister]

i still fail to see how one green torso that was referred to as "he" right before dying (or, after? he's dead, that's what's important.) determines the gender of the whole of plantlife. :t

Because

A. It's all we have to go after

and 

B. Weren't you JUST criticizing me for how I thought of Psi-Things? In fact, I think you're contradicting yourself.

 

 

it's how the MU works... except for when it's convenient! funny how the first psion toa we meet is a guy, after it's said they're an all-female tribe... hmmm, kinda makes it seem like it's not how the MU works, doesn't it? kinda makes it look like monogender tribes can be broken if you're introducing a male character for a previously female tribe, hmmmmmmmm....

So we're introducing a male character to a male tribe...so is that noncanon now? If introducing a male to a female tribe CAN happen, as it has, then why are you assuming that it has happened AGAIN? Didn't you even say that? Going back to Orde's issue, yes it was an error by Greg, since Ce- was introduced as a female element. But the Bo-Toa DOES NOT fit these requirements. He's the only one. By this logic, why aren't you arguing that Krakua should be female? He's the only known (named) member of a male tribe.

 

tl;dr Bo- is a male tribe because G1 had monogender tribes. Orde was an exception and Av-Matoran don't count.

 

By the way, am I the only person who has a headcanon explanation for why there are genders to begin with? When the Great Beings saw the inhabitants of Bota Magna, they noticed that there were psychological and social differences between males and females, so they made the elements that they thought would work better for the male mind guys and the ones that would work better for the female mind girls. So again, basically Orde's issue. They made the first Ce-Toa, he was too aggressive, and they were like "nopenope girls should have psychic powers". 

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

i still fail to see how one green torso that was referred to as "he" right before dying (or, after? he's dead, that's what's important.) determines the gender of the whole of plantlife. :t

Because

A. It's all we have to go after

and 

B. Weren't you JUST criticizing me for how I thought of Psi-Things? In fact, I think you're contradicting yourself.

 

 

it's how the MU works... except for when it's convenient! funny how the first psion toa we meet is a guy, after it's said they're an all-female tribe... hmmm, kinda makes it seem like it's not how the MU works, doesn't it? kinda makes it look like monogender tribes can be broken if you're introducing a male character for a previously female tribe, hmmmmmmmm....

So we're introducing a male character to a male tribe...so is that noncanon now? If introducing a male to a female tribe CAN happen, as it has, then why are you assuming that it has happened AGAIN? Didn't you even say that? Going back to Orde's issue, yes it was an error by Greg, since Ce- was introduced as a female element. But the Bo-Toa DOES NOT fit these requirements. He's the only one. By this logic, why aren't you arguing that Krakua should be female? He's the only known (named) member of a male tribe.

 

there are little question marks literally floating around my head right now,

 

i made no such contradiction of myself, i still stand in saying it is far too convenient that Orde is the first psion-toa we see and he's a guy, and also why the heck would i argue Krakua should be female? your sentences cease making sense for most of this post so i'll get back to you on that. :0

[Reznas]

At the risk of sounding mildly sarcastic; Why not stop fussing over a the fictional gender dynamics of a toyline that ended five years ago? Why not have more awareness that this is a pointless powderkeg that would have exploded by now if we hadn't set it off so many times already?

 

Look, guys, I fail to see the fuss. This is what fan fiction is for. You see the EU Paracosmos up at the top of the forum, right?

 

I see your point, and it's understandable. For all intents and purposes, nothing we say or do is going to change much, seeing as Bionicle G1 has long been dead. But that doesn't mean we can't sit back and discuss the pros and cons of the storyline.

 

I think that upon further reflection, many of us have realized that the storyline we knew and loved had its shortcomings. I know that, at least for me, I was really pretty unaware of these sorts of things when I was really into Bionicle. I mean, when I first got into it I was like seven years old? When I was seven I couldn't really grasp the concept of gender equality, so it wasn't a real issue for me. But now, with a far better understanding of life, in general, I can grasp that concept and begin to apply it to experiences from my childhood. Now that I look back, I can clearly remember the lack of female characters in the Bionicle toy line, and I wish that more of the characters had been female. I think kids need to be taught from a young age that not all heroes are men. Heroism is not bound to a gender.

 

-Rez 

[Grungemeister]

 

 

i still fail to see how one green torso that was referred to as "he" right before dying (or, after? he's dead, that's what's important.) determines the gender of the whole of plantlife. :t

Because

A. It's all we have to go after

and 

B. Weren't you JUST criticizing me for how I thought of Psi-Things? In fact, I think you're contradicting yourself.

 

 

it's how the MU works... except for when it's convenient! funny how the first psion toa we meet is a guy, after it's said they're an all-female tribe... hmmm, kinda makes it seem like it's not how the MU works, doesn't it? kinda makes it look like monogender tribes can be broken if you're introducing a male character for a previously female tribe, hmmmmmmmm....

So we're introducing a male character to a male tribe...so is that noncanon now? If introducing a male to a female tribe CAN happen, as it has, then why are you assuming that it has happened AGAIN? Didn't you even say that? Going back to Orde's issue, yes it was an error by Greg, since Ce- was introduced as a female element. But the Bo-Toa DOES NOT fit these requirements. He's the only one. By this logic, why aren't you arguing that Krakua should be female? He's the only known (named) member of a male tribe.

 

there are little question marks literally floating around my head right now,

 

i made no such contradiction of myself, i still stand in saying it is far too convenient that Orde is the first psion-toa we see and he's a guy, and also why the heck would i argue Krakua should be female? your sentences cease making sense for most of this post so i'll get back to you on that. :0

 

The only reason that Orde was a male was because Greg made a mistake. It's not convenient, just an error.

By your logic, Krakua should be considered to possibly female, since he's the only known member of a male tribe, just like the Bo-Toa. What sets those two apart? Nothing. Bo- is canonically a male element because we have no evidence saying otherwise, tribes are generally monogender, and the only known member is male.

Just trying to have a civil discussion, mate. Sorry if my sentences don't make sense 

 My apologies for misunderstanding. I thought that you were somewhat going back on what you had said earlier. You said that Orde was just too convenient, but should Plantlife be considered a female element, we would have to have that convenience all over again with the unnamed male Toa.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Toa Vanson

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

well what i actually said, to clear things up, is that Orde being a mistake is no justification for how dumb his whole existence is, and then i also said that these background nobodies (not krakua) could have easily been any gender because they're background nobodies.

 

really, I'm unsure where you got the assumption I'm rooting for all single-member tribes to be put on trial here. :0

[Grungemeister]

AHH that makes sense. I was under the assumption that you were wanting for every minor tribe with very few/minor characters to be reevaluated. But if you're trying to make the argument that Bo- should be a female tribe, then why are you against Orde? If anything, he helps your cause by showing that exceptions can happen. Anyway, I'm not trying to say that gender ratio shouldn't be less skewed, but I think that Plantlife is not the one to try and change, since we know that one member is a male, and tribes are usually monogender (with the exception of Orde and Av-Matoran). If anything, I would like to see Plasma being a female element.

[SailorQuaoar]

Wow this thread went off the rails.

 

I specifically suggested Plantlife because there were no named characters. Krakua and Orde are both named characters.

 

Would Plasma and/or Gravity be somehow more acceptable to be genderbent?

[Sybre]

Would Plasma and/or Gravity be somehow more acceptable to be genderbent?

I actually wouldn't mind seeing that, partially because there are no known canon characters for that element with a specified gender. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Other than that, I certainly don't mind.

[Irrie]

 

Would Plasma and/or Gravity be somehow more acceptable to be genderbent?

I actually wouldn't mind seeing that, partially because there are no known canon characters for that element with a specified gender. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Other than that, I certainly don't mind.

 

Well, there was that one Su-Toa from LoE that was named as a 'he'. But I don't quite think that one unnamed character that was mentioned only once means that it's been established that all the Plasma Toa are male. 

[Grungemeister]

 

 

Would Plasma and/or Gravity be somehow more acceptable to be genderbent?

I actually wouldn't mind seeing that, partially because there are no known canon characters for that element with a specified gender. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Other than that, I certainly don't mind.

 

Well, there was that one Su-Toa from LoE that was named as a 'he'. But I don't quite think that one unnamed character that was mentioned only once means that it's been established that all the Plasma Toa are male. 

 

That's basically the main issue with this thread. Do we assume that tribes are monogender and go off of one Toa or do we go against canon a little?

[Dorek]

The rule has always been that tribes have been monogender, barring "exceptions". We can, of course, make the argument that the Toa mentioned have all been "exceptions", but quite frankly that strains credulity even for BIONICLE, especially since the whole idea of "exceptions" is something Greg only said recently to give himself more wiggle room anyway and avoid this whole debate. Edited May 13, 2015 by Dorek

[Sybre]

 

 

Would Plasma and/or Gravity be somehow more acceptable to be genderbent?

I actually wouldn't mind seeing that, partially because there are no known canon characters for that element with a specified gender. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Other than that, I certainly don't mind.

 

Well, there was that one Su-Toa from LoE that was named as a 'he'. But I don't quite think that one unnamed character that was mentioned only once means that it's been established that all the Plasma Toa are male. 

 

Ah, okay. I didn't know that part. And you might have a point on that last sentence.

[Vezon shall Return]

I always assumed in the context of anything fanfic, you could make anything regardless if something is canon or not, because by definition fanfic is non-canon, so why does it matter if it is canon or not? What's gonna stop something in drawing or making or writing about fictional characters.

 

I mean if I wanted to make a gender swap of all of the main characters in a drawing or make a character's sexual orientation anything aside from straight? Would it make sense to do so? I don't know, probably not. Would it needlessly anger people? Hahaha yes it would. lol But would it stop me from messing with those easily offended people? Heck NO! lol I do what I want, most of what I put out there is more for my pleasure anyways and not anyone elses. Besides the first generation story already ended so it doesn't really matter at this point. So who cares what if there is a higher ratio of males over females, or if gender is based off personality traits (or the sound of their voices), or the way their bodies are shaped "female" or "male, or romance in the universe is equivalent to normal brother/sister love (nothing weird). It's all fiction anyway, and anything added is fanfic regardless if it would technically fit in the conan universe or not. 

 

Personally, as much as I am very objective in real life important arguments, I've become more liberal minded when dealing with fanboy debates with stupid issues like these, and open that all fan created ideas or concepts should be allowed to exist online, and if you don't like certain ideas like gender-swapping a fictional tribe in their work, then fine either say nothing or give an honest opinion, just don't go on some stupid crusade on dumb issues involving gender or whatever. In the end no one is here to care about that, we are here strictly on either critiquing fan created content or discussing story theories. All of this what the gender of a fictional tribe (that isn't relevant to the actual story at all) is just plain stupid and with little merit. 

 

If you had any evidence that suggests that there was a Toa of the green that was female then sure it would be a stretch, and that would be an interesting theory, but it doesn't mean it is canon. But it doesn't have to be, it's all about your own perception of the story's universe, and what you want to take from it. You could even apply it to your own non-canon stories or other content, it doesn't matter. The whole point of fan theories is to explore the possibilities and the limitation of the fictional universe, like what rules are plausible in this universe, and how would that change some else's perception of it? 

 

Now let's look at what the premise of this whole topic, "That all plant life Toa/Matoran should be canonized as being only female" Well, uh ok? Is there any proof or logical reason set within the story canon to support the possibility that this type of tribe is female or male? No, in fact there is more evidence that supports the contrary, that like in many matoran tribes in the story are in fact male. There is no implication said otherwise, so why should it be canonized, other than to please people who want to be more accurate to canon? Well... than they only have two options, either don't create fanfic that breaks that rule of canon, or admit it is against a general rule within canon and do it anyway. Either doesn't matter, no matter what you end up doing it's all non-canon regardless. 

[SailorQuaoar]

I'm just gonna say that way too many of the people here have completely missed the point of my posts and are also being legitimately sexist.

 

I wasn't arguing for all tribes to be bi-gender, or abolishing the gender rule. Did you even read what I wrote?

 

Using a one-off redshirt as an excuse for why a whole tribe should be make is extremely silly. Do any of you actually care about that random Bo-Toa that has no name or personality? Somehow I don't think so.

All you're doing is using a non-character to support a flimsy arguement for why retconning a tribe would be "wrong".

 

The arguements of the people supporting the change of one element have been completely twisted and misrepresented by a few users who seem to lack reading comprehension.

You are trying to make us defend arguements we never even brought up in the first place.

 

I am not an "SJW". If I was I would be arguing to genderbend one of the Toa Mata or another established character. I have never done that, and don't want that to happen.

 

All this is is simply a way to try and get a little more gender equality into Bionicle without major story revisions.

That is all that I have been saying, and it is extremely frustrating that this simple statement has gone over way too many posters' heads.

[Dorek]

Using a one-off redshirt as an excuse for why a whole tribe should be make is extremely silly. Do any of you actually care about that random Bo-Toa that has no name or personality? Somehow I don't think so.

All you're doing is using a non-character to support a flimsy arguement for why retconning a tribe would be "wrong".

I thought the whole point was to do it in a way that can at least be accepted by the canon and avoid retconning? As I'm sure I've mentioned, if we're going to actively go about and change parts of the story we don't like regardless of what makes "sense", there's little point in even bothering to follow any sort of canon in the first place.

 

If you're going to suggest some sort of story revision, it should be supported by facts and evidence and not just "I want this". To me, "Orde exists" is not a strong enough argument to support an active retcon. Orde himself notes that everybody continually pesters him about his gender; would the Piraka not have noticed, even offhand, if the Toa of Plantlife they took out was the only one of its gender? I would think that's a hard thing to ignore, even for people like the Piraka. Plus, as I've said, the idea that we've encountered both rare exceptions (that aren't proven to exist, necessarily) in the vast universe is fairly improbable.

 

I'm all for more inclusive gender representation and diversity, but who would this change be for? I'm loathe to use "the story is dead!" argument, but it has merit here; this sort of fussing is incredibly individual, and only serves to satisfy a minute subset of the population, rather than actively promote a healthy perception of the issue.

[Grungemeister]

Using a one-off redshirt as an excuse for why a whole tribe should be make is extremely silly. Do any of you actually care about that random Bo-Toa that has no name or personality? Somehow I don't think so.

All you're doing is using a non-character to support a flimsy arguement for why retconning a tribe would be "wrong".

And you're using a non-character to support a flimsy argument for why retconning a tribe would be "right".

 

Of course, I would love to see more equal ratios, but Plantlife is not the one to change. Tribes are monogender. One Bo-Toa is male. What does that make the rest? It's as simple as that. We should be working towards something that isn't already canon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Plasma is ever referred to as male or female canonically, and it's just assumed to be male. I'm pretty sure Gravity is never specified either. I would be all for Plantlife being female, but it's already canonically male, with evidence.

[Exitium]

For the record, Lariska explicitly refers to the Toa of Gravity as male in Time Trap:

 

 

"I scouted him for two weeks. He was a Toa of Gravity. His standard response to an attack was to the dodge the first strike and then erase the gravity around an opponent and send them floating upward. I practiced fighting in zero gravity using levitation disks, so when he tried that, I was ready ...  And he wasn't ready for my being ready."

 

 

And of course, there's the male Toa of Gravity from NOGLB, which is canon because that was the whole point of that contest.  Gravity is a male element.  I remember reading about Zaktan killing the Toa of Plasma, but I don't remember which book it was in, so I don't have the passage.  It may contain a gender pronoun, but if not, I don't believe there are any other references to plasma's gender.

 

I have little interest in getting further involved in this debate, but I would pose this question to both sides: What does it matter what plant life's gender is?  It would solve none of the problems proponents of the change suggest (adding exactly 1 new female character to the story) and would hardly be the horror that opponents seem to suggest.  We are talking about one character and a tribe with no screen time; no matter what happens in this topic, the story will remain essentially unchanged.

 

There has been little of substance in this topic.  If we want to talk about sexism and gender ratios, then let's talk about that instead of retconning a throwaway character in a story that's been finished for five years.  Unfortunately, the level of dialogue about gender at BZP makes politicians look eloquent, which is why I have mostly steered clear of these topics.  Rather than trying to fix Bionicle, let's simply evaluate it for what it was, flaws and all (and yes, the number of female characters was indeed a flaw).

[The 1st Shadow]

For the record, Lariska explicitly refers to the Toa of Gravity as male in Time Trap:

 

 

"I scouted him for two weeks. He was a Toa of Gravity. His standard response to an attack was to the dodge the first strike and then erase the gravity around an opponent and send them floating upward. I practiced fighting in zero gravity using levitation disks, so when he tried that, I was ready ...  And he wasn't ready for my being ready."

 

 

Well, it took long enough. Glad Gravity's settled. Now we just need to deal with Plasma. 

[Naota Takizawa]

Let's just say all matoran, toa and turaga of plasma are male and if there's anyone who doesn't like this idea, ignore it and follow your headcanon that all plasma matoran, turaga and toa are female.

[Grungemeister]

For the record, Lariska explicitly refers to the Toa of Gravity as male in Time Trap:

 

 

"I scouted him for two weeks. He was a Toa of Gravity. His standard response to an attack was to the dodge the first strike and then erase the gravity around an opponent and send them floating upward. I practiced fighting in zero gravity using levitation disks, so when he tried that, I was ready ...  And he wasn't ready for my being ready."

 

 

And of course, there's the male Toa of Gravity from NOGLB, which is canon because that was the whole point of that contest.  Gravity is a male element.  I remember reading about Zaktan killing the Toa of Plasma, but I don't remember which book it was in, so I don't have the passage.  It may contain a gender pronoun, but if not, I don't believe there are any other references to plasma's gender.

 

I have little interest in getting further involved in this debate, but I would pose this question to both sides: What does it matter what plant life's gender is?  It would solve none of the problems proponents of the change suggest (adding exactly 1 new female character to the story) and would hardly be the horror that opponents seem to suggest.  We are talking about one character and a tribe with no screen time; no matter what happens in this topic, the story will remain essentially unchanged.

 

There has been little of substance in this topic.  If we want to talk about sexism and gender ratios, then let's talk about that instead of retconning a throwaway character in a story that's been finished for five years.  Unfortunately, the level of dialogue about gender at BZP makes politicians look eloquent, which is why I have mostly steered clear of these topics.  Rather than trying to fix Bionicle, let's simply evaluate it for what it was, flaws and all (and yes, the number of female characters was indeed a flaw).

Yeah, thanks for clearing up what gender Gravity is.

That's been the main issue with this topic. Some want Plantlife to be female because it had little to no role in the story, and others think it should be male because it's canon and the only Toa of Plantlife we've seen has been male.

[fishers64]

I'm going to start with this:

 

 

Oct 8 2006, 10:00 AM

 

4) Which gender do the Toa of Gravity and the Toa of Plasma have?

 

 

4) I would tend to think they are both male.

 

Nov 12 2007, 12:10 PM

 

4. What gender are Toa of Sonics?

4b. Toa of Plasma?

 

4) Both are male.

 

I can't find the scene of the Toa of Plasma's death yet. I just checked in BL #1... 

[The 1st Shadow]

 

I can't find the scene of the Toa of Plasma's death yet. I just checked in BL #1... 

Try 4 or 5. It was one of those later ones, if I remember correctly.

[Vezon shall Return]

I'm just gonna say that way too many of the people here have completely missed the point of my posts and are also being legitimately sexist.

 

I wasn't arguing for all tribes to be bi-gender, or abolishing the gender rule. Did you even read what I wrote?

 

Using a one-off redshirt as an excuse for why a whole tribe should be make is extremely silly. Do any of you actually care about that random Bo-Toa that has no name or personality? Somehow I don't think so.

All you're doing is using a non-character to support a flimsy arguement for why retconning a tribe would be "wrong".

 

The arguements of the people supporting the change of one element have been completely twisted and misrepresented by a few users who seem to lack reading comprehension.

You are trying to make us defend arguements we never even brought up in the first place.

 

I am not an "SJW". If I was I would be arguing to genderbend one of the Toa Mata or another established character. I have never done that, and don't want that to happen.

 

All this is is simply a way to try and get a little more gender equality into Bionicle without major story revisions.

That is all that I have been saying, and it is extremely frustrating that this simple statement has gone over way too many posters' heads.

 

Really? As fun as that may sound to purposely provoke, I don't see anything wrong with my initial causal analysis, I was being unusually respectable in my last comment (at least for my standards). Just because I made a few absurd points to point out how your main flaw in this discussion was by wanting to canonically revise a story that has already ended to put at ease your fan perspective view of more gender equality. Even if it were revised, I don't see how much of a difference that would change. It definitely wouldn't change much of the ethos of the fictional world, since there would still be an overwhelming majority of male represented characters and races. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Vezon shall Return

[Grungemeister]

 

I'm just gonna say that way too many of the people here have completely missed the point of my posts and are also being legitimately sexist.

 

I wasn't arguing for all tribes to be bi-gender, or abolishing the gender rule. Did you even read what I wrote?

 

Using a one-off redshirt as an excuse for why a whole tribe should be make is extremely silly. Do any of you actually care about that random Bo-Toa that has no name or personality? Somehow I don't think so.

All you're doing is using a non-character to support a flimsy arguement for why retconning a tribe would be "wrong".

 

The arguements of the people supporting the change of one element have been completely twisted and misrepresented by a few users who seem to lack reading comprehension.

You are trying to make us defend arguements we never even brought up in the first place.

 

I am not an "SJW". If I was I would be arguing to genderbend one of the Toa Mata or another established character. I have never done that, and don't want that to happen.

 

All this is is simply a way to try and get a little more gender equality into Bionicle without major story revisions.

That is all that I have been saying, and it is extremely frustrating that this simple statement has gone over way too many posters' heads.

 

Really? As fun as that may sound to purposely provoke, I don't see anything wrong with my initial causal analysis, I was being unusually respectable in my last comment (at least for my standards). Just because I made a few absurd points to point out how your main flaw in this discussion was by wanting to canonically revise a story that has already ended to put at ease your fan perspective view of more gender equality. Even if it were revised, I don't see how much of a difference that would change. It definitely wouldn't change much of the ethos of the fictional world, since there would still be an overwhelming majority of male represented characters and races. 

 

This guy gets it. 

[maxim21]

FTR, the scene with the Toa of Plasma is in BL1. Here's the passage (p37):

Then he remembered a night long ago, an island far to the south, and a Toa of Plasma who didn't beg quite loud enough or share quite enough information. Zaktan had dragged the Toa off. Less than two minutes later, the Piraka leader returned alone. Whenu Avak went to check the situation, all he could find of the Toa were bits of armor, a mask that looked half-devoured, and puddles of something Avak preferred not to try and identify.

A Toa of Plasma is also in Dark Mirror (in an alternate universe, but still; it's in chapter 8):

Kojol fell next, his armor crushed by the Toa's power and his essence incinerated by a Toa of Plasma.

Apparently no pronouns.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

FTR, the scene with the Toa of Plasma is in BL1. Here's the passage (p37):

Then he remembered a night long ago, an island far to the south, and a Toa of Plasma who didn't beg quite loud enough or share quite enough information. Zaktan had dragged the Toa off. Less than two minutes later, the Piraka leader returned alone. Whenu Avak went to check the situation, all he could find of the Toa were bits of armor, a mask that looked half-devoured, and puddles of something Avak preferred not to try and identify.

A Toa of Plasma is also in Dark Mirror (in an alternate universe, but still; it's in chapter 8):

Kojol fell next, his armor crushed by the Toa's power and his essence incinerated by a Toa of Plasma.

Apparently no pronouns.

 

Most interesting. I both love, and hate it when authors leave things open like that.

[The 1st Shadow]

FTR, the scene with the Toa of Plasma is in BL1. Here's the passage (p37):

Then he remembered a night long ago, an island far to the south, and a Toa of Plasma who didn't beg quite loud enough or share quite enough information. Zaktan had dragged the Toa off. Less than two minutes later, the Piraka leader returned alone. Whenu Avak went to check the situation, all he could find of the Toa were bits of armor, a mask that looked half-devoured, and puddles of something Avak preferred not to try and identify.

A Toa of Plasma is also in Dark Mirror (in an alternate universe, but still; it's in chapter 8):

Kojol fell next, his armor crushed by the Toa's power and his essence incinerated by a Toa of Plasma.

Apparently no pronouns.

 

Hm... Good find(s).

[SailorQuaoar]

FTR, the scene with the Toa of Plasma is in BL1. Here's the passage (p37):

Then he remembered a night long ago, an island far to the south, and a Toa of Plasma who didn't beg quite loud enough or share quite enough information. Zaktan had dragged the Toa off. Less than two minutes later, the Piraka leader returned alone. Whenu Avak went to check the situation, all he could find of the Toa were bits of armor, a mask that looked half-devoured, and puddles of something Avak preferred not to try and identify.

A Toa of Plasma is also in Dark Mirror (in an alternate universe, but still; it's in chapter 8):

Kojol fell next, his armor crushed by the Toa's power and his essence incinerated by a Toa of Plasma.

Apparently no pronouns.

 

Well there we go, there's our opening. Can someone on the LMB petition Greg to make Plasma female then?

[fishers64]

Well there we go, there's our opening. Can someone on the LMB petition Greg to make Plasma female then?

 

 

Oct 8 2006, 10:00 AM

 

4) Which gender do the Toa of Gravity and the Toa of Plasma have?

 

 

4) I would tend to think they are both male.

 

Nov 12 2007, 12:10 PM

 

4. What gender are Toa of Sonics?

 

4b. Toa of Plasma?

 

4) Both are male.

*pulls out sword* *growls*

 

*ahem*

 

Yeah, I guess we can...

[SailorQuaoar]

 

Well there we go, there's our opening. Can someone on the LMB petition Greg to make Plasma female then?

 

 

Oct 8 2006, 10:00 AM

 

4) Which gender do the Toa of Gravity and the Toa of Plasma have?

 

 

4) I would tend to think they are both male.

 

Nov 12 2007, 12:10 PM

 

4. What gender are Toa of Sonics?

 

4b. Toa of Plasma?

 

4) Both are male.

*pulls out sword* *growls*

 

*ahem*

 

Yeah, I guess we can...

 

The problem that Greg as a writer has is a "male as default" mindset. To him, a character is male until proven otherwise. And that's kinda gross because it paints females as an "offshoot" of males. Even when he was told that Psionics was going to be a female element, he still wrote a male character.

 

I've been told "g1 is done, wait for g2". And yeah the old story is finished. But g2 hasn't been any better.

The only confirmed female character is Gali. Even the Water Protector is referred to with male pronouns on the official Lego website, and if the "passed down from father to son" bit about the Protector's masks is literal, it could mean that Gali is the only female on the island. And that's even worse than g1. At least g1 had an all-female tribe even if the rest were males.

[The 1st Shadow]

Even the Water Protector is referred to with male pronouns on the official Lego website, and if the "passed down from father to son" bit about the Protector's masks is literal, it could mean that Gali is the only female on the island. 

 

The instance of the PoW is something I think we can gloss over. All the Protectors have the exact same description, and only the PoF had any sort of characterization in the animations. Beyond that, there's literally no information on those guys. Until proven otherwise, there's always the possibility that one or more of the Protectors are female (personally, I'm all for the Ice and Jungle ones being female).

[Voxumo]

Also with the fact that the descriptions for the protector masks says 'father to son' that would imply that there is some form of reproduction, which in the typical sense also would imply there are females in the tribes. I imagine G2 will likely have something similar to the Spherus Magna tribes. Right now I think the descriptions on the bionicle site is just lego being lazy and giving the least amount of information, meaning the credibility is slim to none.