BZPRPG News and Discussion

[IcarusBen]

My head canon is that they're 85% mechanical, 20% organic.

 

Yes, I know that's 105%. There's some overlap where it's organic material trying to repair mechanical parts like gears and such.

[toa grimlock]

For the record I personality visualize everyone like a cross between the the way the CGI models looked in the movies and the CGI models from the adds.

[Keeper of Kraata]

I try to avoid terms that by nature implicate a more organic nature. It makes facial features weird. I mean, I can assume there is a basic 'skeletal' structure, but I prefer to think of armor as a combination of 'skin' and actual armor that is worn. 'Bone' is just endoskeleton, though, and I hate assuming that toa have the same skeletal features as a human. I can make exceptions for viscera, but I prefer to keep it to a minimum, Skorm not withstanding.

[The UltimoScorp]

Mechanical exoskeleton always seemed close to what they were, to me, as well. Organic bits showing at joints and such, but overall, mechanical beings. I play mostly that way, though I also use a lot of human terminology, bones, tendons and such when referring to injuries. Makes my healer Turaga a little easier to write.

[Krayzikk]

Ah, this topic. 

 

While I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

 

With regards to anatomy, your characters are all essentially human. How you choose to portray that is up to you, but the fact is that your characters have bones. They have blood vessels. They have blood, muscles, nerves, eyes, teeth, hearts, everything a human has, they do. The basic reason for this is that when it comes to combat and healing, we have to have something everyone can understand. We briefly ran a contest for a new canon anatomy, but the end result... No one was interested, and everyone realizes that creating and learning a whole new comprehensive anatomy just wasn't feasible.

 

So you can choose to think of it however you'd like. But when it comes to combat, with the exception of characters specifically noted to wear external armor, your characters are all just as squishy as humans. 

[The UltimoScorp]

Ah, this topic. 

 

While I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

 

With regards to anatomy, your characters are all essentially human. How you choose to portray that is up to you, but the fact is that your characters have bones. They have blood vessels. They have blood, muscles, nerves, eyes, teeth, hearts, everything a human has, they do. The basic reason for this is that when it comes to combat and healing, we have to have something everyone can understand. We briefly ran a contest for a new canon anatomy, but the end result... No one was interested, and everyone realizes that creating and learning a whole new comprehensive anatomy just wasn't feasible.

 

So you can choose to think of it however you'd like. But when it comes to combat, with the exception of characters specifically noted to wear external armor, your characters are all just as squishy as humans. 

Of course^, honestly, I'd say Vezok's Friend does the whole bionicle anatomy thing the best. Freakin' love his/her art. Do have to admit that facial features are a bit of a pain, given that masks tend to make the faces of our characters.

[toa grimlock]

@UltimoScorp, would just like to let you know Moas is waiting outside your shop in Ko-koro, waiting for you to answer the the door.

 

 

Also if any would like to join the Toa Voya we have three openings and were in po-wahi.

Edited December 1, 2014 by toa grimlock

[Banana Gunz]

Ah, this topic. 

 

While I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

 

With regards to anatomy, your characters are all essentially human. How you choose to portray that is up to you, but the fact is that your characters have bones. They have blood vessels. They have blood, muscles, nerves, eyes, teeth, hearts, everything a human has, they do. The basic reason for this is that when it comes to combat and healing, we have to have something everyone can understand. We briefly ran a contest for a new canon anatomy, but the end result... No one was interested, and everyone realizes that creating and learning a whole new comprehensive anatomy just wasn't feasible.

 

So you can choose to think of it however you'd like. But when it comes to combat, with the exception of characters specifically noted to wear external armor, your characters are all just as squishy as humans. 

 

Really? I guess I understand the convenience but it seems so much more interesting when they're treated as Bio-mechanical. It's more complicated, true, but bio-mechanical beings were part of what made Bionicle so special. Robots on tropical islands? That was really cool!

 

Aw well.

[Krayzikk]

It's part of what makes it cool, but completely impossible to run a game based upon. Given that we've never had any depiction of their proper anatomy and reaction to injuries in canon, we wouldn't have any way of figuring out how to make combat fair. 

 

It's not entirely to everyone's taste, but it's in the interests of making the game actually fair.

[Hitoshura]

But if you think about it, human-ish beings make a little more sense.

[Eyru]

And keep in mind: you're free to portray your characters however you like. Some people portray their characters as almost completely mechanical, while others treat their characters entirely like humans. That portrayal can vary; it's only when combat is brought into the mix, or when your character's anatomy comes into question (such as in issues of healing), that your characters' bodies need to act human, regardless of how they look. 

[Keeper of Kraata]

Well, it muddles the issue that pretty much everyone can agree masks are hard... but Tahu got his mask scratched and and got a nasty infection in MoL.

[IcarusBen]

Okay, I'm about to seriously disagree with the staff here. Just know that I'm not trying to insult the staff, but I really dislike their decisions here.

 

Ah, this topic. 

 

While I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

 

With regards to anatomy, your characters are all essentially human. How you choose to portray that is up to you, but the fact is that your characters have bones. They have blood vessels. They have blood, muscles, nerves, eyes, teeth, hearts, everything a human has, they do. The basic reason for this is that when it comes to combat and healing, we have to have something everyone can understand. We briefly ran a contest for a new canon anatomy, but the end result... No one was interested, and everyone realizes that creating and learning a whole new comprehensive anatomy just wasn't feasible.

 

So you can choose to think of it however you'd like. But when it comes to combat, with the exception of characters specifically noted to wear external armor, your characters are all just as squishy as humans.  

Uh... 

 

 

I'm sorry, but there's a little problem with that intrepretation. 

 

MU inhabitants are bio-mechanical. I agree that they'll have certain parts like muscles, organs and such, but they're mostly surrounded or replaced by mechanical equivalents. I know the BZPRPG is a little loosey-goosey with the canon, but the idea of bio-mechanical creatures is the entire point of Bionicle! Semi-robotic creatures with tribal cultures built by a higher power (the GS). Even the sets have hydraulics and vents and things. Disregard those and we've disregarded Bionicle's primary media.

 

It's part of what makes it cool, but completely impossible to run a game based upon. Given that we've never had any depiction of their proper anatomy and reaction to injuries in canon, we wouldn't have any way of figuring out how to make combat fair. 

 

It's not entirely to everyone's taste, but it's in the interests of making the game actually fair. 

 

This. I don't mean to be insulting, but that is truly a lame excuse. There are plenty of ways to make the game fair without compromising canon. I'm not going to list off an entire anatomy here, but it can't be that hard to look over the various fight scenes where sapient creatures get hit and see how they respond to that.  

 

Well, it muddles the issue that pretty much everyone can agree masks are hard... but Tahu got his mask scratched and and got a nasty infection in MoL.

 

If the masks are made from the same materials as the people, then we have a baseline for injury. Rahkshi staffs can cause large wounds in the exterior casing of a person in the MU.

Edited December 1, 2014 by IcarusBen

[Nato G]

I'm pretty sure Krayz also made it clear that you can depict your characters however you want. You just have to use these guidelines when dealing with fights/healing/injuries. Any other time, it's up to you.

[Snelly]

Well to be quite frank, if you can't accept the way this game handles anatomy, uh don't play. It's not gonna change anytime soon for you or anyone else. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by Skitty

[Keeper of Kraata]

On a less argumentative note, I believe today marks the end of the third month I've been playing the BZPRPG! Yaaay.

[Eyru]

IcarusBen, I understand what you're saying, but the fact is that it's impossible to provide a fair, balanced playing field if there's no standard that everyone can agree on. If a character's anatomy is ambiguous, then that gives their player incredible licence to to things that we (as humans) would consider extremely difficult or even impossible. Fights would be unfair, or would quickly spiral into no-win contests of super strength, speed, and durability, where each character could dish out and take as much damage as they liked.

 

Sure, it might not be a solution that everyone likes, but it's a solution that everyone must agree is the most practical. By making all characters "human-like" in their average strength, speed, durability, and with regards to their anatomy, everyone knows what the limits are. It provides an even playing field so every player can enjoy themselves and play fairly. 

[Krayzikk]

General rule of thumb for the sake of equality is to think of characters’ physical limits and processes as being like those of humans, because we as players are all familiar with how the human body works.

 

 

This has been taken from the New Players Topic. The rest of that answer does note that these species exist largely the same; as I stated, outside of combat and medical issues, you are perfectly free to portray your character however you wish. 

 

However.

 

Within combat, human standards are exactly how characters are portrayed. This is how the game has been run for many moons. Long before I was here, long before you were here, and long after we're both gone. Why? For the very reason I stated, which you dismiss as... "Lame". Now, permit me to properly describe why that is not the case. You point to times in canon that we have depiction of injury; this is true. We have a myriad of injuries in canon, all of which produce clear effects from one specific event. It's the same issue that we had with the canon contest. Coming up with an anatomy comprehensive enough to cover every event that could ever occur in this game, in which powers and martial abilities are used in ways they never are in canon, is not at all feasible.

 

I've had this very debate time and time again. The simple, inescapable fact is that when we toss out human-anatomy realism, we the staff lose all ability to be able to tell when characters should drop. How should a character deal with a joint lock? What effect should a slash to where the Achilles tendon would be have? How would a character deal with a critical head injury? What about organs, are there organs to strike at? We can't answer all of these questions based upon the scant amount of information we have in canon. 

 

I understand where you're coming from. Biomechanical creatures is a big part of what makes Bionicle what it is. And as I noted, you are perfectly free to portray your character outside of combat and healing as you wish.

 

But the fact is that this is how the game runs. To change that would require a paradigm shift the likes of which this game has not undergone in the decade and a half since its inception. Your criticisms are heard, and understood. They are, unfortunately, not going to change the status quo as they are neither the first, nor the last, time this has come up. 

 

Your tone, however, is a very different matter. Your demeanor for the duration of that post has been condescending and abrasive, bordering on outright disrespectful. You are perfectly free to disagree with how we run things. What you are not free to do is disrespect our decision, or declare our reasons for such a decision "lame" and imply that they are excuses for not wanting to do things a certain way.

[Eyru]

[snip]

 

[IcarusBen]

Yeah, I realize my tone is a bit... oh, what's the word... 

 

• Rude
• Disrespectful
• Annoying
• Inapproriate

 

Bullet points, stop helping. Yes, that's how I sound, but it's the only tone that truly expresses how I feel. I know that it seems like I'm trying to disrespect the staff, but I'm really trying my hardest not to. I'm very critical with everything I experience, and sometimes words just bypass my filter. I learn from my mistakes, and I'm trying to get better with it.

 

Let me try and reword this;

 

The system currently is place isn't adequate to provide both a fair game and preserve the core concepts of the Bionicle world. You say;

 

 Given that we've never had any depiction of their proper anatomy and reaction to injuries in canon, we wouldn't have any way of figuring out how to make combat fair. 

 

but there have been reactions to injury. We've seen creatures get injured and hurt. We can even interpret things related to their anatomy. They can't breathe water, but they can breathe air, so they must have lungs. Looking at the second movie, it looks like the Toa Metru have some sort of either muscles or tightly wound wires just under their armor. Admittedly, there are several things that aren't so clear, but anyone willing to rewrite canon after a certain point while keeping earlier parts of canon should be prepared to interpret anatomy as to keep it close to the source material, not hand-wave it away.

 

I'm sorry if I come off as rude, disrespectful or angry, but that is how I feel towards the plot, not those who write it.

[Nato G]

We get it. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But how about this: Greg has confirmed that the average Toa can lift about one tonne. Consider how insane this game would be if everyone had that kind of strength.

 

The staff have chosen to make it so that all characters have human biologies, strengths and weaknesses. Most people are happy with this decision. If you aren't, that's fine. But you're going to just have to deal with it, because it won't change, for you or anyone else.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Roman Torchwick

[The UltimoScorp]

Whoa, wait, really?The average toa can lift a whole freakin' ton?!

[Eyru]

 

 

but there have been reactions to injury. We've seen creatures get injured and hurt. We can even interpret things related to their anatomy. They can't breathe water, but they can breathe air, so they must have lungs. Looking at the second movie, it looks like the Toa Metru have some sort of either muscles or tightly wound wires just under their armor. Admittedly, there are several things that aren't so clear, but anyone willing to rewrite canon after a certain point while keeping earlier parts of canon should be prepared to interpret anatomy as to keep it close to the source material, not hand-wave it away.

 

 

What you're talking about here is how BIONICLE characters have been depicted as having body parts that function similarly to humans, and how we can use those depictions to relate their bodily processes and anatomy to our own, and, in doing so, understand how they work and how they react when injured.

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own argument? The Toa Metru appear to have lungs. Our characters have lungs. The Toa Metru have muscles. Our characters have muscles. We've extrapolated to give our characters eyes, organs, and other body parts that correspond with humans' in order to make gameplay realistic and fair. You can portray your characters however you like; in fact, everyone generally portrays their characters as biomechanical. The only time in the game when characters are treated as human is in combat, or when injured, and that's not to say they become human: it simply means their bodily parts and their anatomy match up to a human's, and this makes gameplay fair because everyone can relate to those standards.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure where your problem is. You seem to be agreeing with everything Kray said.

 

[Razgriz]

oh the ironing

Anyways

they really are all human huh

that helps me a lot

[Keeper of Kraata]

Well put, IcarusBen. While I accept the need for simplifying things to what we know about humans, I do feel a line was passed somewhere; humans are just so squishy. A human, even one that was at the peak of endurance and 'toughness', wouldn't get through the pummeling the Toa Metru took Akalini field without severely injuring themselves, when the Metru were just banged up and winded.

 

I accept the terms, though. Not like I can do this anywhere else, so we have to play by these rules, however much we may dislike or disagree with them.

[IcarusBen]

 

 But how about this: Greg has confirmed that the average Toa can lift about one tonne. Consider how insane this game would be if everyone had that kind of strength.

And this is where complicated arguments fall apart. Yeah, that's absurd. But consider this; we have no idea of the scale of the Matoran universe. For all we know, things weigh more in the MU, or the gravity is higher. Unless we have some sort of weight measurements for, say, a cubic bio of various types of Protodermis, we have no idea how this stacks up with the general weight of average objects. 

 

Not to mention, Greg never wanted there to be eight hundred different Toa running about. If I remember, by 2010, there were only 57 Toa in existence, unless that didn't count the Hagah, who would make it 63. 

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own argument? The Toa Metru appear to have lungs. Our characters have lungs. The Toa Metru have muscles. Our characters have muscles. We've extrapolated to give our characters eyes, organs, and other body parts that correspond with humans' in order to make gameplay realistic and fair. You can portray your characters however you like; in fact, everyone generally portrays their characters as biomechanical. The only time in the game when characters are treated as human is in combat, or when injured, and that's not to say they become human: it simply means their bodily parts and their anatomy match up to a human's, and this makes gameplay fair because everyone can relate to those standards.

 

 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure where your problem is. You seem to be agreeing with everything Kray said.

 

 

 

I'll let Keeper explain it.

 

Well put, IcarusBen. While I accept the need for simplifying things to what we know about humans, I do feel a line was passed somewhere; humans are just so squishy. A human, even one that was at the peak of endurance and 'toughness', wouldn't get through the pummeling the Toa Metru took Akalini field without severely injuring themselves, when the Metru were just banged up and winded.

 

I accept the terms, though. Not like I can do this anywhere else, so we have to play by these rules, however much we may dislike or disagree with them.

 

[Constructelf]

I think this may have been mentioned off site, but do characters in this game have armor (as in, the shoulder, leg, chest, etc armor pieces on the sets) by default? Would it be a good idea to assume that Evey time you enter combat, both you and your opponent are wearing some sort of light armor, unless they're explicitly stated not to be? It would make more sense in my mind to have "squishy humans with light armor" rather than just "squishy humans". Would help with clearing up confusion.

[Snelly]

well geeze it isn't like we're getting Toa pregnant or anything. 

[Nato G]

I write all of my characters as wearing armour suits over their skin/clothes, rather than the armour being skin or exoskeleton.

[IcarusBen]

well geeze it isn't like we're getting Toa pregnant or anything. 

 

Actually, Emissary told me that happened once. It didn't end well.

[Silvan Haven]

We get it. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But how about this: Greg has confirmed that the average Toa can lift about one tonne. Consider how insane this game would be if everyone had that kind of strength.

 

 

 

I would find that rather fun.

 

 

and that's not to say they become human: it simply means their bodily parts and their anatomy match up to a human's,

 

So its not that they become human, its that they were always human.

 

 

in my mind to have "squishy humans with light armor" rather than just "squishy humans". Would help with clearing up confusion.

I have been told by several people that the skin is basically some sort of light armor all by itself. That kind of brings up all the problems with having biomechanical beings in combat in the first place though.

[Snelly]

 

well geeze it isn't like we're getting Toa pregnant or anything. 

 

Actually, Emissary told me that happened once. It didn't end well.

 

 

I guess he didn't tell you who was involved with that. =D

[NorikSigma]

Yummy yummy sandwich.

[IcarusBen]

 

We get it. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But how about this: Greg has confirmed that the average Toa can lift about one tonne. Consider how insane this game would be if everyone had that kind of strength.

 

 

 

I would find that rather fun.

 

 

and that's not to say they become human: it simply means their bodily parts and their anatomy match up to a human's,

 

So its not that they become human, its that they were always human.

 

 

in my mind to have "squishy humans with light armor" rather than just "squishy humans". Would help with clearing up confusion.

I have been told by several people that the skin is basically some sort of light armor all by itself. That kind of brings up all the problems with having biomechanical beings in combat in the first place though.

 

This. This actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you, Silvan. I may not agree with you about Daniel Jackson, but you make some good points about anatomy. Of course, for that first one, look towards an earlier post where I talk about scale.

 

 

 

well geeze it isn't like we're getting Toa pregnant or anything. 

 

Actually, Emissary told me that happened once. It didn't end well.

 

 

I guess he didn't tell you who was involved with that. =D

 

Conflagulations! Who's the dad?

 

Yummy yummy sandwich.

Uh... Huh?

[toa grimlock]

Wait, wait, wait, WHAT!? A Toa actually got pregnant!? So that means that...

 

I guess this is a bad time to correct what I said about how I picture the characters in the RP by stating that I actually image female characters with breasts?

[25K Now!]

Crust Norik to make the first joke about sandwiches.

[Nato G]

You breader be kidding there, Hubert.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Roman Torchwick

[NorikSigma]

I'm quite bread I beat you to the crunch, dough.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Tenth Norik

[Keeper of Kraata]

I believe that all vortixx are well-endowed in the chest area. Even the males. Especially the males.

[Razgriz]

every day is chest day

bench
ohp
barbell flyes

fuaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark