Bzprpg News And Discussion

[BenLuke]

I like the idea purely because speculative biology is fun.

[Snelly]

And I'm just going to sit here being lazy while everybody else works their butts off for the contest.

Hey that's what I'm doing. D:

[- JL -]

Oh, I'm done.

[Constructelf]

random topicYou know what I dislike the most? Fighting somebody with the same element as you. Especially if that element is gravity. Gravity is the worst. No matter what attacks you throw at your opponent they can cancel them out.

[Krayzikk]

I completely agree with Eyru. I doubt I can phrase this nearly as eloquently as he did, but I will do my best.This is, as he said, a sandbox RPG. The greatest allure of this game, for me at least, has always been the freedom. There are contest RPGs, and they're fun, but they don't have the freedom we have here. They come and they go, but they are almost always plot driven, with relatively strict rules, and the lifespan of a mayfly compared to the BZPRPG.And in many of those, such as Waves of the South (A game Constructman mentioned above), the GM chooses to impose a series of rules for how human characters are. I've never enjoyed that, because it limits the player's choice in how they play their character. People have different things they prefer, and here, they get to express those preferences. Today, those preferences clashed and it lead to a long debate. And I am truly disappointed that it came to that.From my posts, it looks like my stance is that humanization is the way it should be. To piggy back off of Eyru's point, I am not arrogant enough to think that my preference is the way it should be. What I personally debated earlier was the freedom to pick which end of the spectrum you wish to have your character fall on, or whether they lie smack dab in the middle. Everyone plays their characters differently, and it is part of what keeps this game interesting. The enormous variety, not just in characters, but in players.Before now, in my memory, we haven't had an enforced anatomy. The BZPRPG has been open to all players for the better half of a decade. In that time, there have been years of storyline, and even two reboots. There have been hordes of players and characters, some of whom have faded into obscurity remembered only by the veterans among us, while others have stayed and continued their presence in this game. In that time, at least in the time I have played, there hasn't been a need for an official anatomy for each species. It has operated like BZPTime. Nobody is at the same point, but the intersect. When two or more groups interact, their time frames temporarily link up. It is a strange system to be sure, but it is one the players have adapted to, and made it work. In the same vein, people have played their characters with varying degrees of humanization. Almost all have agreed, for the sake of combat, to adhere to human anatomy with regards to injuries. It has been a fact rarely challenged, that when it came to being wounded, you treated it like you would a similar wound on a human being. This was done to make things simpler for both the players and the staff.We already have that common ground between both camps of players, those who want to adhere as closely as possible to canon, and those who want to put more humanization into their characters. So why do people care if other choose to humanize their characters or not? It doesn't affect you. The character arc of Emotia and Tillian doesn't affect those outside of it. It was a choice by the players to have their characters emulate human traits. If you don't like it, well, ignore it. Don't interact with those characters, if you believe you must go to such a degree. That's your choice.The BZPRPG has never lined up with canon completely. It's never relied on Tahu, or Lhikan to be Bionicle. This game holds creatures that would never in a million years have showed up in the canon. Valkyr? Lesterin? Mystix? All of these characters were our inventions, that have little to no basis in canon. Characters in this game eat and drink, something rarely demonstrated in canon materials. But it is a widely accepted fact here. It's even listed in the BZPRPG Rules and Index.

Q: How "realistic" should I be? And should it be earth realism or BIONICLE realism?A: In this game, we generally stick to the official canon, though there are exceptions like giving characters for "human" traits (ie. ingesting food, reproduction). That being said, both "realisms" are okay, because the whole point or realism is really to just make things fair for all players. It's also a good idea to take a look at Friar Tuck's Guide to Common Sense on subjects of earth-realism and keeping things fair for everyone.

I have bolded the part in this quote that I find most important to this discussion. Both realisms are okay, because the purpose of realism is to make things fair for everyone. Does having characters that are more "human" than "canon" make things unfair for one camp or the other? Does it give a distinct advantage in combat, or in any other part of this game that requires competition between players?No? Then why does it matter?Guys, we're blowing this whole issue out of proportion. The basis for this entire problem is that there are people who don't realize that just because one character is "more human" than yours doesn't make them bad. Or ruin the entire game. If you don't like it, just don't pay attention. It's simple. Why should the preference of a single group dictate what everyone has to do? Or force one group to completely adapt the writing and playing style they have used for years just to fit what the other group wants?I get that the point of having a competition is for everyone to have a say. But no matter who wins, a large group is going to have to completely rewrite their characters stories or adapt personalities, or even change their entire style of play. This is a game, and the point of playing is to have fun. We've gone years without needing an official anatomy. Because we don't really need one. People argue about it because it doesn't match what they think. But why should it have to match? To conform to the desires of one group or individual?At the end of the day, Nuju is boss. And I'll have to go along with what he decides, just like everyone else. Personally, I prefer to humanize my characters a bit. It makes them easier to write for, allows me to use physiological problems I am familiar with, instead of having to figure out how to make them fit with an unfamiliar anatomy. But that's just my preference. Like I said, I don't think I'm arrogant enough to say that it is the right way. I know I'm not. Because there is no right way, or a wrong way to go about your character's physical design. (Unless of course it violates BZP rules.) I just think people should be able to choose.

[Light]

*gasp*I agree with Kray on something. I'm making my rules to make characters as customizable as possible, BUT I dearly hope we stick with it the way it is. This way, everyone that likes them to be humanish (like Snelly) can coexist with those that like them robotic (like constructman).

Edited October 23, 2012 by Toa Kaithas

[Nuju Metru]

To those of you expressing concern:The official anatomy - if someone submits one that is to my approval and works for the game as a whole - will not be one that is constricting; besides, it'll probably be subject to some (AKA many) edits by me. The purpose of this anatomy is to provide a baseline for combat, mostly, which is the time when these physiology things come to light anyway - discrepancies in peoples' perceptions of BIONICLE anatomies have, this year (since people have been so very particular) made battle less fair. I aim to make battle as fair as possible.Outside of functioning as a reference for attacks and the like, this guide isn't going to be strongly enforced. I don't really care how much people humanize their characters - I just see this as a necessary resource that the game has been needing for a while. And, while this is a sandbox game where you can do basically whatever you want, some things in the world of the game have to be constant. We all agree that we're on the island of Mata Nui, that there are certain beings called Toa with special powers, right? I think anatomy of species, considering we are all supposedly playing the same species, makes sense in this vein.I've never been about inhibiting creativity, but I am a strong proponent of character development. As most of you who have asked me for a custom species will know, I usually ask how the species you're proposing will provide characters with unique developmental opportunities, and this question in my mind vastly trumps any bells and whistles you've tacked onto the race you're pitching. The physiology of the character shouldn't be that important or integral to the character. If you're thinking that the loss of a hyper-humanized or hyper-mechanized anatomical image in your head will destroy your character's uniqueness, I suggest you spend more time honing their actual character rather than their physiological state to make them distinctive.Insofar as the arrogance point goes: I know you're all too polite to say it to my face, but my arrogance is kinda what decides what happens in this game... Technology levels, custom species, and a bunch of other details in the game get decided by staff: why not anatomy, too? If you have a problem with my judgement, I'd recommend not playing the game I run. However, if you trust me (as I hope you do) and respect my loose, unifying vision of the world we're playing in, I assume you should be able to accept an "arrogant" solution, on an issue where we need an accepted standard, that I've carefully looked over, edited, and decided is best for the game.You can't please all the people some of the time, nor some of the people all the time. But I can hope that whatever gets decided, you'll all be able to live with. I look forward to the ideas you guys put forward.

[They]

Icjust want to say, Nuju, your post made me think of The Last Samurai. "I have dreamed of a unified shabban."

[sunflower]

Was ninja'ed. By Nujubossman.I was going add another long post to this, but I suppose there's just one thing I really wanted to say on this:If really wanted to play a RPG full of superpower wieldin' humans, then I would have joined one of the many COT RPGs that have superpowered humans in them.And that's all.

[Let's Henshin!]

Wow, I leave for a bit and look at how many arguments pop up. Can't you guys hold yourselves in check atleast for a little while. :PIn terms of the anatomy discussion, I'm in full agreement with Eyru and Krayzikk. Why should it matter that someone portrays their characters one way, and you portray them some other way. When I picture the BZPRPG I have an idea in my head which may not align with most of you and that's okay. Picture the world however you want, just don't impose those views on others. I don't think I need to go off on another tangent as both Eyru and Krayzikk covered the rest beautifully and far more eloquently than I'm capable of.However I do agree with Nuju on the need for an Anatomical guide, but for one reason and one reason only. Combat. The problem exists on how we seem unwilling of blending our views on the world when interacted with certain characters. Thus when one player believes a certain area weak, and another believes it too be strong problems arise.You wanna know why the fights between Heuani v. Dorian, Yuru v. Utu, and the countless other amazing ones are so much fun to read. It's because of one simple fact. They understand each others views. They have taken the time to learn how the other sees the world and adjusted accordingly, thus when they fight it's in an equal playing field.Sadly as a community we've yet to reach this point of understanding, and that is the real purpose of the guide, or atleast that's what I think. To give us an equal footing for everyone to understand. It's not to impose a strict anatomy or force you to view the world one way or another. It's about allowing us to RP to the best of our ability in every fight we're in, without having the worry about the do's and don'ts of the situation. Now all we have to do is write and enjoy ourselves, and that's the real joy of this game. To write a world we can enjoy ourselves in. It's the ultimate form of escapism, so the sooner we get all these pointless specifics and arguments out of the way, the better.Cause I mean come on, are these arguments really worth all the trouble we put ourselves through?....And I went off on a tangent didn't I, whoops.

[- JL -]

I think it matters because I can't portray a pregnant Toa giving birth.Probably the only self inflicted pain in one post. But I've never seen fat Toa.

[The Lorax]

Just to throw in my two cents:The point has be raised over and over that we don't "need" an official anatomy guide and that we always got on well without it, and I'm not so sure about it. In general, I agree that the game runs fairly smoothly most of the time (or at least, most of the time I've been involved, which goes back to the first reboot). Major rule-breakings and smitings are rare, and players are usually respectful of each other and don't get into big arguments.Which brings me to my point. In the absence of an official anatomy guide, we end up having endless, repetitive discussions on how human or characters are in this topic. By my estimation, this happens every week or so, over and over, with the same points always being brought up by the same people, ad nauseam. It never gets resolved completely, so the discussion dies down until next week when it flares back up again and re-floods this topic with the same old arguments for/against humanisation or canon or freedom or restriction or whatever the flavour of the week happens to be.Now, finally, we might get the chance to put that endless, pointless discussion to bed. An official anatomy guide would save us all a lot of time and worry, not to mention clear up this topic for discussion of other things that we would all rather talk about, like the latest recipies of pokawi stew in Le-koro and whatever Takua had for breakfast last tuesday. I think a official guide would (if it were well designed (and I'm sure it will be)), in fact, make this game more enjoyable. I'm willing to give it a try.

[25K Now!]

He had Green Eggs and Ham of course!In other news, I'm retiring from the podcast. Kray and Tyler are your new hosts now. They should be releasing an episode when they can.So no more pestering me or Onarax.Have fun pestering them instead.

[Techn0geist]

I'm not sure I like the idea of an official anatomy guide.Different people have different views on how the anatomy of *insert species here* works, so to be constricted to one specific model is likely to raise many, many complaints.I'm leaving my opinion here, and I'm leaving this discussion now, because I honestly cannot be bothered debating.Have fun, kids! Play well

[Katuko]

Is it wrong that I'm pleased at how much controversy I've seemed to cause?

Considering that the less BIONICLE this RPG becomes and the more controversy there is around it the less reason there is for me to even play it anymore... yes.

The kid's probably a Matoran, since you can only turn into a Toa with a Toa Stone. But we'll see what Nuju dictates.

Yet most characters are made directly as Toa. Any kid would be a new PC character of sorts.

A NEW CONTEST WILL SAVE US!I hereby announce a formal challenge: somebody, anybody, design a comprehensive anatomical guide for BZPRPG characters. If your guide really covers everything, encompasses all legal canon species, and suits the game well enough (and, of course, if I like it better than the other entries!), I'll adapt it into the official guidelines for next year. Be sure to address what you think should be stances on reproduction/family, organic vs. mechanical, and all that jazz. Find the balance between comprehensiveness and brevity, and you might stand a chance. Nobody here wants to read a massive essay on this stuff, least of all me.You have until November 30th. Let's see what comes out of this; Good luck.

I will definitely do this.

I think it's rather ridiculous that we need an official guide to determine exactly how human-like our characters are. The BZPRPG is a sandbox RPG, meaning there is a great deal of freedom. That freedom includes how you play your characters.If you think you are important enough to be able to pick and choose exactly how you want another player's characters to look or act, you are extremely arrogant. It is not your place to tell someone else that they are wrong and they should change their playing style to suit your desires. The only people allowed to do that are the staff, and they do so only when someone, in exercising their freedom, begins to threaten what the staff feels is the balance of the game.

Within the confines of this site's official RPG (it's advertised right on the front page), I do not enjoy seeing canon get so thoroughly broken and stomped on as it is. Some changes to gender rules and stuff, fine; some changes to the setting, fine; but when the Matoran Universe becomes just another human fantasy setting it's almost not BIONICLE anymore.

If Nuju says that something is allowed, then stop whining and roll with it. This is not your personal game; you do not make the rules. The BZPRPG has never conformed to the desires of a single player, and it never will, because that would be destroying the very core of the game. If you want to control the rules of the universe, then go to the Library forum and do so.

As I have told those who want to auto-hit or make characters 90% human or similar. That argument works nicely against pregnancy as well. Making one pregnancy essentially tells everyone else that "this is how the species work". How's that for forcing views?

Just because someone plays their characters with human clothes does not mean I have to do likewise with my characters. My characters can be straight out of their set forms if I wish, and that's okay, because we are free to play our characters however we wish. It's like BZPRPG time: no one person gets to say it's day or night. I can play my Matoran as a Tohunga straight out of MNOG while the person next to me can be playing a "human with superpowers," and we'll just make it work like we make BZPRPG time work.

And when those two interact, we suddenly have a massive discrepancy in how the very species works. A straight-out-of-set character would be 85% mechanical and likely not bleed, for example. They would, as seen in canon, take hits from fire and lightning and be little worse for wear. A 100% human character, on the other hand, would go into cardiac arrest and die from a little shock. Or splatter against the wall where a canon BIONICLE character would be thrown through it.

In all honesty, I'm rather disappointed that we, the players, have decided we need strict rules on character anatomy when the BZPRPG has run for so many years without an anatomical guide. All the arguing that goes on here in GD is completely unnecessary; it could all be avoided if people just took a deep breath and reminded themselves that their personal opinions do not have any more weight than another person's, and posting "i don't like this its dumb" does not mean anything.

It's a problem both because of the combat focus in this sort of RPG as well as the "bystander feel". Having a pregnant Toa (for example, as that is the most recent trouble) does as said influence everyone around that character as well. Someone's bio-mech portrayal of the characters is utterly shattered when said bio-mech suddenly walks around with a baby factory in their metal belly.

Again, I'm just disappointed that people were arguing at all. After all, it's just a game.

A game needs some form of coherency and rules in order to be viable. Otherwise we can just rename this RPG to "the official BZP sandbox writing jam - anything goes!"

This is, as he said, a sandbox RPG. The greatest allure of this game, for me at least, has always been the freedom. There are contest RPGs, and they're fun, but they don't have the freedom we have here. They come and they go, but they are almost always plot driven, with relatively strict rules, and the lifespan of a mayfly compared to the BZPRPG.

Stricter rules can sometimes allow greater freedom of choice, in a way. Consider the banned masks and elements in this RPG. If their limits and functionality had an official guide in the rules, they might be allowed. As it is, the Mahiki has as good as been banned because the freedom has made it so abused.

And in many of those, such as Waves of the South (A game Constructman mentioned above), the GM chooses to impose a series of rules for how human characters are. I've never enjoyed that, because it limits the player's choice in how they play their character. People have different things they prefer, and here, they get to express those preferences. Today, those preferences clashed and it lead to a long debate. And I am truly disappointed that it came to that.From my posts, it looks like my stance is that humanization is the way it should be. To piggy back off of Eyru's point, I am not arrogant enough to think that my preference is the way it should be. What I personally debated earlier was the freedom to pick which end of the spectrum you wish to have your character fall on, or whether they lie smack dab in the middle. Everyone plays their characters differently, and it is part of what keeps this game interesting. The enormous variety, not just in characters, but in players.

Yes, yes, fantastic. Still, when big things like these are put into the game they change the setting for everyone else. It's the same way with cigarettes and beer and explosives and Parakuka and all other things added from non-canon. If one player has it, other player will eventually have to react to those things when they are brought into contact with them.

Before now, in my memory, we haven't had an enforced anatomy. The BZPRPG has been open to all players for the better half of a decade. In that time, there have been years of storyline, and even two reboots. There have been hordes of players and characters, some of whom have faded into obscurity remembered only by the veterans among us, while others have stayed and continued their presence in this game. In that time, at least in the time I have played, there hasn't been a need for an official anatomy for each species.

To my understanding the RPG was also riddled with things like chaos,

We already have that common ground between both camps of players, those who want to adhere as closely as possible to canon, and those who want to put more humanization into their characters. So why do people care if other choose to humanize their characters or not? It doesn't affect you. The character arc of Emotia and Tillian doesn't affect those outside of it. It was a choice by the players to have their characters emulate human traits. If you don't like it, well, ignore it. Don't interact with those characters, if you believe you must go to such a degree. That's your choice.

I have no trouble with romance in this game, or feelings, or even some anatomy changes like blood. I have a problem with the whole family thing, because any time a character mentions family in the vicinity of my characters, it essentially forces me to assume that my character came from a family as well. Bane is the son of Amerikos. He tells this to Madrihk. Forced leap of logic: Who is Madrihk the son of? It is an issue I utterly ignore, because Madrihk is a character based entirely on the regular canon of "no family", but it is an annoyance to me whenever the prospect of humanized family creeps over the setting around him. I cannot simply ignore a character that walks up to mine and is/has been part of a team that I run. As a "guild leader" in this RPG I of course accept the characters of any player that do not break rules with abandon; but the more characters that join the more different playstyles I am exposed to. Some playstyles inevitably clash. That's why this topic is filled with arguments, but those arguments and fellow problem solving is also why this RPG has not crashed and burned into utter chaos yet.

The BZPRPG has never lined up with canon completely. It's never relied on Tahu, or Lhikan to be Bionicle. This game holds creatures that would never in a million years have showed up in the canon. Valkyr? Lesterin? Mystix? All of these characters were our inventions, that have little to no basis in canon.

Also note that most players are unaware of their existence or ignored them so long as they were there. I can't think of any member of those species that I have seen recently.

Characters in this game eat and drink, something rarely demonstrated in canon materials. But it is a widely accepted fact here. It's even listed in the BZPRPG Rules and Index.

Consumption of food and drink is at least possible in canon. It is merely expanded here.

I have bolded the part in this quote that I find most important to this discussion. Both realisms are okay, because the purpose of realism is to make things fair for everyone. Does having characters that are more "human" than "canon" make things unfair for one camp or the other? Does it give a distinct advantage in combat, or in any other part of this game that requires competition between players?No? Then why does it matter?

Yes, it does, if we go by my explanation above. Canon BIONICLE chars can be thrown through a brick wall or shocked by lightning without much harm; "human" BIONICLE chars could not take that at all.

I get that the point of having a competition is for everyone to have a say. But no matter who wins, a large group is going to have to completely rewrite their characters stories or adapt personalities, or even change their entire style of play. This is a game, and the point of playing is to have fun. We've gone years without needing an official anatomy. Because we don't really need one. People argue about it because it doesn't match what they think. But why should it have to match? To conform to the desires of one group or individual?

No, to make things even, fair, less confusing, more fitting a BIONICLE-based RPG in an explicitly MNOG setting, etc.

At the end of the day, Nuju is boss. And I'll have to go along with what he decides, just like everyone else. Personally, I prefer to humanize my characters a bit. It makes them easier to write for, allows me to use physiological problems I am familiar with, instead of having to figure out how to make them fit with an unfamiliar anatomy. But that's just my preference. Like I said, I don't think I'm arrogant enough to say that it is the right way. I know I'm not. Because there is no right way, or a wrong way to go about your character's physical design. (Unless of course it violates BZP rules.) I just think people should be able to choose.

Yes, and for me I much prefer the challenge of writing a non-human character; the characters I came to know and love during BIONICLE's run. And that is of course just another opinion. But I strongly feel that if everyone plays so differently it just makes the game setting muddled and severely conflicting.

[25K Now!]

I go the Lev route.No reproduction for me folks! The sibling thing?MAGIC.

[- JL -]

What if they give birth to a Toa.....Stone?

[25K Now!]

Good idea! They hatch from the stones!

[Techn0geist]

You guys are freakin' sick.

[Geardirector]

You guys are freakin' sick.

Seconded

[25K Now!]

FOOLS!You cannot comprehend the true scope of my JEEEEEENNNNNNEEEEEUUUUSSSSS!!!I'LL SHOW YOU ALL! MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Ahem.So uh, is there a giant hole in Kini-Nui that leads down to the Mangaia or something?

[Highly Suspicious Person]

Good idea! They hatch from the stones!

That is not a terrible idea..........Only a rather bad idea.

[Constructelf]

@Hubert: Yes, though I wouldn't suggest going down there, or at least not without asking Nuju or Emzee first.@Bordak: Eggs? Yeah, no.

[- JL -]

It is VERY possible to go down there; And the thing is, I really don't think Nuju will kill your character off. He'll probably get some Rahkshi to mutate you into an overpowered character.As for the process of going there; You just need to realize that the caves are fragile, and that Rahkshi + Kraata probably scuttle around freely.I remember during the very start of the game when me, GH, Pirok and a few other guys ventured down there with our chars. Nothing really happened; We just walked out of there, and then walked to Le-Koro, where everyone then got slaughtered by Echelon, who then killed Tamaru while holding off like, 6 guys screaming "GODMOD!!!!" because everyone back then was noobyish except maybe GH.So maybe if you walk down there and come out unscathed, you receive instant karma, but if you walk down there with somebody challenging Makuta, you die.But if you walk down there with a Makuta-sided char, maybe you get a gift.

[25K Now!]

Nah, just curious about the architecture.

[- JL -]

Greenish black. Can't see anything. Layers, kind of like entering from a roof going down to the bottom, where Makuta has fun being lazy letting minions do work that, or he is injured by the original Toa.

[otter]

Okay, seeing as I haven't had a computer at my dad's, I just missed a big debate. Well, I'm just going to toss something in here, as well:I follow by the general philosophy of "Play-them-how-you-want-to." For example, I don't normally go the whole super human-bionicle route, in the way I imagine them. Sure, I mention under armour/skin. I would assume those would be the spots in-between where the main armour is. With clothes, I get annoyed at people when they assume my characters to wear clothes, when all they're really wearing is armour, but I'll just find a way to roll with it.That's what we've always done, at least since I've joined, and by what Eyru and Krayzikk said, before: We've played them how we wanted to, and found ways to meld everything together and make it work. Katuko, with Madrihk, for example: Blah is the son of blargh. Who is Madrihk the son of? Nobody. See, look, it works. You don't have to assume he's part of a family, or anything like that.If you want to play your characters strictly non-human, that's alright with me and should be with everybody else. We don't care how you want to play them, we're just going to play our characters and interact. A character being pregnant can be odd to work around, yes, but should we really whine about it like we all are, necessitating an actual guide for how character physiology being brought up, or should we just take it for what it could really present: A writing challenge, leading to possible characterization, something that everybody needs more of? Hmm, I wonder.For the argument about things like pregnancy changing the setting: Everything and everyone in this RPG changes the setting of it. A new character pops up, boom, there's a change. That just reminds me of what Krayzikk and Eyru mentioned about "changing the game to fit your desires." That's all I can see there-it's not forcing views on anybody, and the setting is going to change no matter what. It just seems like you're trying to control everything to fit your special idea of how it should work, when you're not the only person here. Playstyles clashing? Inevitable! We're all writing here, not just one person. If you don't want things to clash, move on to the library forum. You can control everything there.If you don't want the setting to change past how you view it, move on to the library forum.If you want your views and only your views to be seen, go to the library forum.The arguments I've seen over anatomy in here always start because some person jumps in with a thinly-veiled statement of "These guys are supposed to be almost perfect robots, your idea is screwy, change it so that I like it more." And then we get the other party/parties coming in to defend their views, and that's when the argument starts. I'd say we should take this as a life lesson: Not everybody is the same, not everybody is going to work the same. Arguments happen, and if you can't take it, if you can't work things out, find something else to do. Don't be immature and force our higher-ups to have to jump in and propose a solution to break it up.Like, say, with the new anatomy guide being made. I know that, regardless of what Nuju here said about it being mainly for combat, somebody is going to run in here shouting like Paul Revere about "The Humanists are coming, the Humanists are coming!" the same as with every other issue, be it humanization, the elements, weaponry, etc. This is just another example, in my mind, about how much this game has been deteriorating in quality from what I used to read when I lurked here for the year or so before I joined. Back then, people had fun, and they liked to write, and most everybody got along, it seemed. I didn't see too many arguments pop up that people didn't solve in a few minutes and then walk away with the internet version of a friendly wave, "See you tomorrow" sort of thing. Now it's argument, argument, argument, none of us can solve anything for ourselves, etc. etc. etc. It's just losing its "fun" potential with the immaturity of everybody these days.

[Highly Suspicious Person]

_{I follow by the general philosophy of "Play-them-how-you-want-to." For example, I don't normally go the whole super human-bionicle route, in the way I imagine them. Sure, I mention under armour/skin. I would assume those would be the spots in-between where the main armour is. With clothes, I get annoyed at people when they assume my characters to wear clothes, when all they're really wearing is armour, but I'll just find a way to roll with it.That's what we've always done, at least since I've joined, and by what Eyru and Krayzikk said, before: We've played them how we wanted to, and found ways to meld everything together and make it work. Katuko, with Madrihk, for example: Blah is the son of blargh. Who is Madrihk the son of? Nobody. See, look, it works. You don't have to assume he's part of a family, or anything like that.If you want to play your characters strictly non-human, that's alright with me and should be with everybody else. We don't care how you want to play them, we're just going to play our characters and interact. A character being pregnant can be odd to work around, yes, but should we really whine about it like we all are, necessitating an actual guide for how character physiology being brought up, or should we just take it for what it could really present: A writing challenge, leading to possible characterization, something that everybody needs more of? Hmm, I wonder.For the argument about things like pregnancy changing the setting: Everything and everyone in this RPG changes the setting of it. A new character pops up, boom, there's a change. That just reminds me of what Krayzikk and Eyru mentioned about "changing the game to fit your desires." That's all I can see there-it's not forcing views on anybody, and the setting is going to change no matter what. It just seems like you're trying to control everything to fit your special idea of how it should work, when you're not the only person here. Playstyles clashing? Inevitable! We're all writing here, not just one person. If you don't want things to clash, move on to the library forum. You can control everything there.If you don't want the setting to change past how you view it, move on to the library forum.If you want your views and only your views to be seen, go to the library forum.The arguments I've seen over anatomy in here always start because some person jumps in with a thinly-veiled statement of "These guys are supposed to be almost perfect robots, your idea is screwy, change it so that I like it more." And then we get the other party/parties coming in to defend their views, and that's when the argument starts. I'd say we should take this as a life lesson: Not everybody is the same, not everybody is going to work the same. Arguments happen, and if you can't take it, if you can't work things out, find something else to do. Don't be immature and force our higher-ups to have to jump in and propose a solution to break it up.Like, say, with the new anatomy guide being made. I know that, regardless of what Nuju here said about it being mainly for combat, somebody is going to run in here shouting like Paul Revere about "The Humanists are coming, the Humanists are coming!" the same as with every other issue, be it humanization, the elements, weaponry, etc. This is just another example, in my mind, about how much this game has been deteriorating in quality from what I used to read when I lurked here for the year or so before I joined. Back then, people had fun, and they liked to write, and most everybody got along, it seemed. I didn't see too many arguments pop up that people didn't solve in a few minutes and then walk away with the internet version of a friendly wave, "See you tomorrow" sort of thing. Now it's argument, argument, argument, none of us can solve anything for ourselves, etc. etc. etc. It's just losing its "fun" potential with the immaturity of everybody these days.}

I follow by the general philosophy of "Play-them-how-you-want-to." For example, I don't normally go the whole super human-bionicle route, in the way I imagine them. Sure, I mention under armour/skin. I would assume those would be the spots in-between where the main armour is. With clothes, I get annoyed at people when they assume my characters to wear clothes, when all they're really wearing is armour, but I'll just find a way to roll with it.

With clothes, I get annoyed at people when they assume my characters to wear clothes, when all they're really wearing is armour, but I'll just find a way to roll with it.

just find a way to roll with it.

roll with it.

This.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Bordakh Unit 227

[- JL -]

Right. Right now, what I think we need is1. Guidelines for kids. Right now, I've never seen a 'child' character. The youngest I've seen might be 'teenagers'.2. Babies. I'm still thinking; How do Toa have kids? I cannot picture a pregnant female Toa sitting on a bed while a baby pops out of her.3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?Also, how do you submit the thing?

[Highly Suspicious Person]

3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?

Yup. In my experience, at least.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Bordakh Unit 227

[Geardirector]

Okay, seeing as I haven't had a computer at my dad's, I just missed a big debate. Well, I'm just going to toss something in here, as well:I follow by the general philosophy of "Play-them-how-you-want-to." For example, I don't normally go the whole super human-bionicle route, in the way I imagine them. Sure, I mention under armour/skin. I would assume those would be the spots in-between where the main armour is. With clothes, I get annoyed at people when they assume my characters to wear clothes, when all they're really wearing is armour, but I'll just find a way to roll with it.That's what we've always done, at least since I've joined, and by what Eyru and Krayzikk said, before: We've played them how we wanted to, and found ways to meld everything together and make it work. Katuko, with Madrihk, for example: Blah is the son of blargh. Who is Madrihk the son of? Nobody. See, look, it works. You don't have to assume he's part of a family, or anything like that.If you want to play your characters strictly non-human, that's alright with me and should be with everybody else. We don't care how you want to play them, we're just going to play our characters and interact. A character being pregnant can be odd to work around, yes, but should we really whine about it like we all are, necessitating an actual guide for how character physiology being brought up, or should we just take it for what it could really present: A writing challenge, leading to possible characterization, something that everybody needs more of? Hmm, I wonder.For the argument about things like pregnancy changing the setting: Everything and everyone in this RPG changes the setting of it. A new character pops up, boom, there's a change. That just reminds me of what Krayzikk and Eyru mentioned about "changing the game to fit your desires." That's all I can see there-it's not forcing views on anybody, and the setting is going to change no matter what. It just seems like you're trying to control everything to fit your special idea of how it should work, when you're not the only person here. Playstyles clashing? Inevitable! We're all writing here, not just one person. If you don't want things to clash, move on to the library forum. You can control everything there.If you don't want the setting to change past how you view it, move on to the library forum.If you want your views and only your views to be seen, go to the library forum.The arguments I've seen over anatomy in here always start because some person jumps in with a thinly-veiled statement of "These guys are supposed to be almost perfect robots, your idea is screwy, change it so that I like it more." And then we get the other party/parties coming in to defend their views, and that's when the argument starts. I'd say we should take this as a life lesson: Not everybody is the same, not everybody is going to work the same. Arguments happen, and if you can't take it, if you can't work things out, find something else to do. Don't be immature and force our higher-ups to have to jump in and propose a solution to break it up.Like, say, with the new anatomy guide being made. I know that, regardless of what Nuju here said about it being mainly for combat, somebody is going to run in here shouting like Paul Revere about "The Humanists are coming, the Humanists are coming!" the same as with every other issue, be it humanization, the elements, weaponry, etc. This is just another example, in my mind, about how much this game has been deteriorating in quality from what I used to read when I lurked here for the year or so before I joined. Back then, people had fun, and they liked to write, and most everybody got along, it seemed. I didn't see too many arguments pop up that people didn't solve in a few minutes and then walk away with the internet version of a friendly wave, "See you tomorrow" sort of thing. Now it's argument, argument, argument, none of us can solve anything for ourselves, etc. etc. etc. It's just losing its "fun" potential with the immaturity of everybody these days.

Hear, hearI personally don't get what the problem is either.I support the whole "play them how you want them" thing, becuase I, as a person, have always told myself to leave others to their business if it doesn't affect me in a major way. If my characters run into a scenario that conflicts with my perception, I'll work it out and try to make the best of it.Kal is right about the argument thing too, why can't we just have fun?The Spherus Magnans reproduce, and the Great Beings modeled the MU inhabitants after them, although in the canon they didn't include this feature, it's not that hard to imagine them doing it in some alternate universe, they probably have the technology and know-how to pull it off.I'll leave you with a quote from Doug Walker, also known as Nostalgia Critic"Everybody likes things for different reasons, doesn't mean you're stupid, doesn't mean you're a horrible person"

3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?

Not when you wear armor 24/7

[Padishah Mehmet II]

Katuko, I understand that you don't like humanized characters basically because they, apparently, ruin the game for you.As the ancients have said, "Deal with it."-Dovydas

[Snelly]

Is it wrong that I'm pleased at how much controversy I've seemed to cause?

Considering that the less BIONICLE this RPG becomes and the more controversy there is around it the less reason there is for me to even play it anymore... yes.

Well all joking aside me and Tyler and have been planning this thing for quite some time now. And with all due respect, Nuju did say it was fine from the get go, otherwise it never would've happened in the first place. The only thing that really bothers me is how you insist that it's gonna basically ruin the game for you. Well, all I can really tell you is to deal with it. Not sure what else I can say, cause I don't see my playstyle changing to fit to how you think it should be.

Right. Right now, what I think we need is1. Guidelines for kids. Right now, I've never seen a 'child' character. The youngest I've seen might be 'teenagers'.2. Babies. I'm still thinking; How do Toa have kids? I cannot picture a pregnant female Toa sitting on a bed while a baby pops out of her.3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?Also, how do you submit the thing?

................................I think you're thinking about this way too hard. And I have a kid character, Mimira, and I've seen plenty of others, such as Miha. Edited October 23, 2012 by Overlord Snelly

[Highly Suspicious Person]

I would like to know how young children would work in this RPG. Especially Toa/Matoran. Would a Toa child be around the size of a Matoran, blah blah blah, etc.

[- JL -]

Jl1223 X, on Oct 23 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?

Not when you wear armor 24/7

So lets say I stab your armor in the thigh and I also stab you in the groin.Which hurts more?

[Geardirector]

Jl1223 X, on Oct 23 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?

Not when you wear armor 24/7

So lets say I stab your armor in the thigh and I also stab you in the groin.Which hurts more?

Whacking and stabbing are two different things

[Constructelf]

Yes they are, but generally speaking, if you got hit in any way there, what would hurt more?And what level of biology are we going into on this report? What grade level? Because if it's anything below high school cellular bio, nothing needs to change at all.

[They]

The anatomy contest asks for your concepts, Constructman. Everyone has different views as to how detailed their concepts run. Nuju asked for something detailed, yet brief enough that he would not be stuck on the computer screen for a week just reading the origins and insertions of the pseudo-muscular fibers of the hand.Basically, make it as complex as you want.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Kughii

[Katuko]

Katuko, I understand that you don't like humanized characters basically because they, apparently, ruin the game for you.As the ancients have said, "Deal with it."-Dovydas

The only thing that really bothers me is how you insist that it's gonna basically ruin the game for you. Well, all I can really tell you is to deal with it. Not sure what else I can say, cause I don't see my playstyle changing to fit to how you think it should be.

Hah, I wish. Extreme humanization is just one of several things that gradually make me like the RPG less and less. You've already heard it in this topic before, so I won't bother to recall the rest. I just don't see why everyone is cool with some things but not others. For example, Krayzikk: Link. Yes, he first wanted a Brutaka-esque character to attack Ta-Koro. He was talked way from property damage and any overpowered character, and basically settled for planning a character who looked like Brutaka's species, and was perfectly willing to write a custom species as "a very weakened member of his race? I could give him some terrible affliction. Honestly I just really like Brutaka's look". yet your answer, Krayzikk, was "NO. NEVER. That is not allowed at all." When asked what part, your reply was"Any of it.The mask, the species. If it isn't on the list of approved things, or Nuju hasn't approved it personally, it can't be used. Period. If you want to try getting Nuju to approve it when he gets back, feel free. But it won't fly.Cease and desist the usage of this character."May I ask why, if creativity and stuff is so big in this game? The char described above would just be a big, relatively strong dude with no fancy special powers in the end. Like any Vortixx trained in combat but with a different look and a different origin, if you will.I find it funny that you'd speak so strongly against what is essentially a skinswap, but pregnancy? Sure, let's roll with it!I also want to refer to Nuju's comments about technological advances, which can very much apply to other things as well. Excuse me for cherry-picking parts and using them somewhat out of context, but here goes:"This is Mata Nui. It's a concrete and defined setting from the BIONICLE canon, with predefined moods and societies.""Increasingly, though, it seems that people are resisting the untamed, small-scale nature of the island. This bothers me a little. Guys, the BIONICLE universe doesn't bend to fit your player wills. If you're looking to build an airship, or any kind of motorized transportation really, you're in the wrong RPG. If you want to command armies from fortresses, then Mata Nui isn't the place to do it. The setting in this game is concrete; it isn't to be reinterpreted full-out, though some of you seem to miss that.""Remember what Mata Nui is supposed to be. If you were around in 2001 like I was, the nostalgic reverence you have for the island should be manifesting itself - if you weren't, go play some MNOLG or watch Bohrok animations to get a sense of what I'm talking about. Mata Nui is a beautiful island that, no matter how much hardship its people face, remains a pure and good place.Don't push the limits just because you can. It isn't always the most rewarding to use stretches to solve your problems or enhance your character. Playing within the confines of a world that's already been made lends your RPing more credibility, more detail, and more satisfaction. Everyone has a part to play, even without changing the nature of Mata Nui. Every character in this game is a part of the world, so make sure they act like it."And while yes, those last two sentences mean that you should of course bring your own stuff to the table (even romance, it was in the Bohrok animations, after all!), note that third last one; which is part of my ideas as well.

Right. Right now, what I think we need is1. Guidelines for kids. Right now, I've never seen a 'child' character. The youngest I've seen might be 'teenagers'.2. Babies. I'm still thinking; How do Toa have kids? I cannot picture a pregnant female Toa sitting on a bed while a baby pops out of her.3. Physical weaknesses. If we whack someone in the groin, does it hurt?Also, how do you submit the thing?

................................I think you're thinking about this way too hard.

Why? Unlike things that are decidedly "magic" and doesn't require much thought (mask powers, for example), reproduction sticks out because we have clear a human standard yet it's one that can't ever be explored in depth because this site has rules that we are already skirting the edges of.

[Geardirector]

Yes they are, but generally speaking, if you got hit in any way there, what would hurt more?

Stabbing would most likely be a lot more severe, I wasn't saying anything to argue opposite.